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kingymech
02-23-2011, 02:15 AM
hey guys recently back from a trip to the dessert so i missed the launch of cat nd have only been playing a few weeks.

Before i left i was in icc 25 h with no problems with threat or rage, now omg im getting rage starved and im struggling to get threat.

I spoke with a couple of old tank mates about hit and expertise and they have told me its not as important as it was so dont worry if its low jsut concentrate on block (mastery) then dodge then parry

Is this true? and would anyone mind having a look at my gear and tell me if im goign drastically wrong with it or my talents.

thanks :D

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/thunderhorn/themaximus/simple

Katzazi
02-23-2011, 04:49 AM
Yes, you should be fine with low hit and expertise. Vengeance (the AP you get because you get dmg) should be enough to ensure your threat some seconds into the fight.

On your talents:
- You can skip the points in Blood Craze if you don't want to take anything of t2 fury. It's just not worth the points at the moment. The time you kill the enemy earlier when chosing dps talents helps the healer more than the underbudgeted healing of Blood Craze.
- Think about if you need the points in Gag Order. I love the talent personally, but there are other people who skip it to get more dps/threat talents.
- If you have problems with rage put one additional point into Shield Specialization.
- Put as much points as you can into Deep Wounds.
- If you have any points left, use them on Incite.

On your Glyphs:
- You don't use Sunder Armor - so the glyph does not do anything for you.
- If you use Thunderclap and B&T you should not be able to use the shortened time from Shockwave glyph. You should wait with Shockwave until you have 3 TC, anyway.
- Think about Heroic Throw and TC glyphs.
- You probably don't need Battle and Commanding Shout glyphs.
- Think about Intimidating Shout.

On you gems:
This does not help you with your threat, but think about a more consistent way to gem. You are using mastery focussed gems together with stamina focussed gems. For your gear level mastery focussed gems should work best. (At least as long as you don't do heroic raids.)

Reforging:
Don't reforge for hit. If you think you need more hit or expertise use those already on gear or use a trinket for it. However, your hit and expertise are nowhere near the caps so you can probably get rid of them, anyway.

Your reforging should look something like:
- if the item has no mastery but crit/haste/hit/expertise reforge the higher of those stats to mastery
- if the item has dodge + parry reforge the higher of them to mastery
- if the item has already mastery reforge to dodge/parry so that they are close together.

There is one point you definitly should get with your dodge+parry+block. The sum of them should be 72.4%. So if you use 25% block you get via Shield Block and include the 5% miss chance of the boss, you are at 102.4% dodge+parry+dodge+miss. If you can get there you will never get a normal hit anymore as long as Shield Block is up. Shield Block can be used every 30s for 10s. That's short enough to cover most boss abilities.

sifuedition
02-23-2011, 04:56 AM
Wow...so much to cover I am sure stuff will be left out. However, it is all here, you'll just need to do some reading to find it.

First, healer mana matters and they are definitely capped on throughput. Therefore, tank strat for gearing has changed. Instead of EH greater than all, you want to prevent spike damage as much as possible so they can stick with thier efficient heals. The best way to do that is trying to get unhittable. This is easiest through mastery because it is not subject to diminishing returns. Parry and dodge diminishing returns have been changed to be equal. Additionally, the new warrior talent Hold the Line gives warriors a little extra incentive to have parry.

The most common warrior strat is stack as much mastery as possible and try to get your parry 1-3% higher than dodge. You can use stam and/or stam hybrid gems but largely, warriors are sticking with mastery and mastery hybrids if the socket bonus is good. Most tanks are finding that strat provides enough stam mostly from native stats on the gear at least until heroic level raids.

The first goal is 72.4% combined dodge+parry+block so that you are unhittable while shield block is up.

As to rage, do you have 3/3 in shield specialization? That is a huge one for rage since rage has been normalized.

kingymech
02-23-2011, 06:52 AM
right ivre had a play with talents, glyphs and reforging. what do u think

Katzazi
02-23-2011, 08:03 AM
Looks much better, now. You probably have to work on your gems eventually.

I'm not sure if Incite is better than Cruelty (you had Cruelty in your last build, so I did not speak about it). However I doubt that it will make a big difference where you put those last points.

I would say: try it out in some heroic 5mans. Take a healer who has healed you before. Use SB on CD (and try to use it as early as possible).

If you are not happy after those runs, come back and tell us about any remaining problems.

Reev
02-23-2011, 08:09 AM
Reforge everything you can to Mastery. Rethink your gemming strategy to concentrate more on mastery and less on Stam/Avoidance.

Loganisis
02-23-2011, 11:03 AM
If you're moving on to raids, I'd take the 2 points out of Thunderstuck and the point out of impending victory and then put one more point in shield mastery for the shortest SB CDs.

Then probably the 2 points in Cruetly to maximize shield slam crits.

For gearing:
Best - Mastery / (Parry/Dodge)
Good - Dodge/Parry
Okay - Mastery / Threat stats

Reforge:
* If it doesn't have mastery, reforge to it.

* If it has mastery and Parry is less than 2% higher than dodge, reforge to Parry (you want to keep Parry ~2% to 2.5% higher than dodge. That's where the Hold the Line benefit from Parry becomes equal after diminishing returns to dodge).

If you're having problems with threat, what's your rotation?

I don't know if this is exaclty right but:

SW > SS > Revenge > Rend* > Devestate. HS with sufficient rage

*Rend - will generate more threat over its life than devestate and can be kept up with Thunderclasp so you'd only use it if Rend falls off the target, plus you renew the attack speed debuff.

If you're having threat issues but not survivablity issues, macro Shield Block to Sheild Slam to get the full affect.

On open, I've found Heroic Throw -> Charge - > SS (sheild block if desired) ->Rend works really good. Then normal rotation.



Some bosses don't swing much, they have much more in the way of magical damage - so you'll need to spell reflect as much as you can for rage rather than passively rely on blocking for rage. These fights you won't be able to HS much.

What type of DPS are you running with? Are you throwing Vigilance on the other tank (free vengence, no threat reducer anymore) to maximize how quickly you reach full vengence?

I'm running 0 hit and 3 expertise (I think, maybe .4% hit) with a 346 weapon and can hold threat against 16k DPS as long as they're not too anxious on the start (read - they don't blow their CDs right away). Coordinating the opening is important, there's no much snap threat like Wrath. You can build good threat to start with, but if DPS isn't careful they can blow right past you until vengence is stacked.


What type of DPS are you running with and do you have any hunters or rogues that can MD/TotT you to help out until vengence is stacked? Are DPS running omen and using any threat reducers they may have (shadowmeld, feign death, fade, etc) if they are getting close to pulling off?