View Full Version : Tanking Prot Warrior hit and expertise
02-22-2011, 09:36 AM
Hey so i know there have been numerous threads on whether we need to be hit and exp capped. Initially i thought the conclusion was that since threat is a non issue we shouldnt worry about these stats. Now that i am semi geared with 2 piece and the dps in my guild is pulling around 20k it seems that it might be reasonable to be hit and exp capped. Other reasons could be to get an extra dps boost on close fights, and for interrupting. Any other feedback on this topic would be appreciated.
02-22-2011, 10:42 AM
If you need to beat an enrage timer of any kind and do not have any survival problems - hit and expertise may be the stat to go for. They are the best dps and threat stats we can reforge to and for. However it may be better to change trinkets, elexiers, food and stuff like that for special encounters.
02-22-2011, 10:50 AM
Like Katazis said, we need it if we want to pull more DPS, and additionally if we want to be handling interupts we need the hit cap.
Though if you're having threat issues it propably more to do with your (or your DPS's) rotation/ability usage, than your stats.
02-24-2011, 02:32 AM
I don't think you need to be capped per se, but in certain encounters where DPS want to go full out and survival isn't so big an issue - I'm particularly thinking of Council and the Monstrosity - I've found switching in a few pieces of expertise / hit heavy gear to be helpful.
03-07-2011, 10:02 AM
I'm not sure if this is the same question, but is it important to keep your miss chance (through hit and exp) around or at 0%. Everything I've been reading has said to reforge those stats into mastery... but I get nervous when my miss chance starts climbing. Apologies is this was already answered. I'm not sure if I am talking about what you call hit cap, or hit minimum
03-07-2011, 11:12 AM
It's the same question. No it's not important to keep your miss chance around 0%. The only thing that may be important to get the hit for is interrupts that YOU need to do and cannot be done by anybody else. That's probably only a problem in 10man and I think because of this, interrupts will always hit after patch 4.1. So as soon as the patch lands you will not need to be at the hit (or expertise) cap at all. Btw: Taunts cannot miss even now. So if you lose threat you can always taunt the mob back to you without the need to hit cap for it.
So the only indicator for more hit or expertise after 4.1 will be if you need to make more threat or dps and cannot get there by respecing for more threat. Before heroic raids you should be fine without going for either hit or expertise. You should get enough dps via Vengeance. In some cases Vengeance is so absurdly high that one can fight for #1 in dmg meter.
I have reduced all my hit and expertise and have a very utility focused build and never had threat (or dps) problems. With a more dps oriented build one should never have threat problems some seconds into an encounter with 0 hit and expertise. (Beside of tank-switching encounters, it's possible to lose threat on the other tank, just because her Vengeance is probably higher than yours, but that would not change even with all hit and expertise that you can get.)
- Move all your hit and expertise to mastery or if not possible to parry / dodge. If you have threat problems at the start of the fight, just use taunt.
- If you do have threat problems later during encounters, think about switching some talents around. (Basically: go for full Shield Specialization and Deep Wounds, drop Blood Craze if you have it, it's no big loss, and maybe Gag Order for Incite and Cruelty.)
- If you need more hit for special encounters because you need to interrupt, use hit food, hit elexiers and maybe a hit trinket or switch some items over to full mastery+hit-items, before reforging or even geming for it.
- If you find that you need more dmg on special encounters (which should not happen before heroic raids), expertise is better than hit. If you need to increase it, try to buff it with food and stuff again, before you start to reforge for it.
- If you have problems with threat/dmg some seconds into the encounter even with a threat oriented build, come back and ask about your rotation.
03-07-2011, 11:19 AM
Building on that - the two biggest reasons for hit used to be taunts and interrupts. When Cata dropped, taunts don't miss and when 4.1 hits, pure interrupts won't miss.
So a lot of the reason it was so important to hit-cap in wrath, especially ToC on, has gone away. Threat early in the fight (first 15 seconds) is usually the fault of over-active DPS. after that it can be mechanic based (guardian in HoO can be tough to keep threat on with all the kiting that needs to be done and limited damage for vengence since so much time is spent dropping puple on the ground). After 15 seconds, vengence has usually picked up to the point that you dont' really need hit/exp to maintain threat.
03-08-2011, 07:12 AM
Thanks for all that guys. I actually reforged my gear for hit and expertise. Good to know I can restore it.
I've always hit/expertise capped all my tanks (Paladin, DK, & Warr) and after reading these forums for the last few weeks this morning i decided id try this for myself...I had reforged and enchanted pure hit/expertise until today.. My results blew me away...To teset i decided to try 2 of the "harder" 5mans where i know most pulls r 4+ mobs mixtures of melee, and ranged..Grim Batol, and Lost city were the instancesi tested, and there was not one pull where i lost aggro on one single target...Having been a ney-sayer of this "no need to hit/expert" until today, i am 100% in change opf heart after seeing it with myown eyes...Im stillonly in 333-346 blues with 2-3 rep epics, and was FAR outgeared by the Dk, warlock, hunter, and fury warr dps'ers in the 2 runs i tr4ied...no one was below 10k dps and as i said, not one loss of control on my part..
(to my knowledge there were no misdirects used as i had informed the dps at the start of each run, that i was trying this new statting method..)
03-08-2011, 12:15 PM
Simple issue it was in woltk as well. The way to solve it is to put on hit gear for content that you / party out gears - i.e. 5 mans. If the mobs are dieing fast then you shouldn't be taking tons of dmg either. That is reason raid tanks have to put on some dps gear to make 5 mans easier to hold agro at least that is what I have found for myself that works. The only time where you may want to wear your raid gear is when your healer isn't geared enough or hasn't had enough practice healing.