View Full Version : Mage Fire Mage: A few questions
02-22-2011, 03:56 AM
My fire mage dinged 85 yesterday :D So I've studied the WoW Insider column and Elitist Jerks, and of course Tankspot, and found some awesome advice there. The rotation is pretty clear too but as I'm working my way through my first heroics, I find that I have some questions left.
I'd be very grateful if some of the experienced fire mages here would share their experience. Here are my questions:
1. Do you use Mirror Image at all? And if you do, is the Glyph worth getting?
2. Do you use Flame Orb? If so, do you only use it on AoE fights or single target as well?
3. What's your AoE of choice? I have so many, I find myself wondering sometimes. Usually I start with Flamestrike, then Blast Wave, and if I'm close enough, Dragon's Breath (that's so much FUN! :-D). Most groups of mobs are dead by then, like the troggs in HoO. Is this really inefficient? So far, I'm just throwing out everything because it's fun, but by the time I start raiding I'd like to know what the most efficient AoE is :)
Thanks for any replies,
02-23-2011, 01:34 AM
1. Mirror image is usually used on boss fights, or when you need slightly higher dps on trash. I'm unsure of the glyph, but the page at EJ will tell you the most recommended glyphs for you to get. Use it when it will not pull other groups, and when it will be ready again for boss.
2. Always use Flame Orb on single target fights. It's a 1 min CD for mages, for fire mages it gets even stronger. While handy for trash, sometimes it will move beyond the group you're working on and explode/start casting on other mobs, so only use if you know it will not pull more. It will end up doing roughly the same damage as a fireball crit. Plus it can also crit, adding to your ignite debuff.
3. Start out with Blast Wave, it's way less expensive than flamestrike, and it will automatically apply a flamestrike if there are 2 or more targets in the blast radius (if you have it talented). I then use Living bomb, and scorch the target till Impact procs and I then spread it to all nearby mobs. Reapply blast wave whenever it's off CD, with flamestrikes in between when blast wave is on CD.
Dragon's Breath doesnt do a whole lot of damage, but can be useful when interrupting a mob if your counterspell is on CD, or if the tank is taking a lot of damage by incapacitating the mobs for a tiny amount of time before broken. You generally shouldn't use this unless you need to get the adds off of you if you pull off the tank.
Basically, the EJ guide is where you'll wanna go for more information. It can be a little difficult to read at some points (when it gets technical) but it contains all the information you need. I know you say you've read it, but your questions are all answered in there.
02-23-2011, 04:25 AM
Thank you so much. Yes, I know it's theoretically "all there" in the EJ guide, I guess I wanted a bit of a practical report from fire mages "live from the instances", if you like :)
I've pretty much done already what you suggest for my first two questions, and as for AoE, I had only played around so far (after all, there aren't THAT many AoE situations in Cata dungeons) so your reminder of Blast Wave applying Flamestrike couldn't have been more timely! Thanks so much, I'll follow that to the letter.
Just what I was looking for! Heroics are so different with my mage than they are on my priest healer, I'm discovering them all over again. Lots of fun!
Have I said "thanks" yet? :)
02-23-2011, 05:54 PM
"as for AoE, I had only played around so far (after all, there aren't THAT many AoE situations in Cata dungeons)"
Just hold out, there will be more. I'm still sitting in some blues mostly purples but I've already found that w/ me tanking, a guild healer and dps + duegon buff or a full guild group that I can actually AOE pull nearly every instance, casters packs and big packs included. I finished HGB just yesterday by chain pulling the entire instance w/ no CC or downtime, which kind of dissapointed me since Sethekk and Shattered Halls were still hairy for good groups up until much higher gear levels (for that expansion) than I am currently at now.
Granted this could be due in part to me now having 3+ years of experience tanking rather than just months, but I've always been a fan of CC and use it whenever I feel it's not going to slow down a run.
02-26-2011, 12:00 PM
1. Use them pre-combat. Don't waste a glyph on them.
2. Use flame orb on every cool down. However, it is best to wait on your initial flame orb until after you have used Combustion. Flame orb is a huge culprit of missing Ignite damage, making combustion hard to set up.
3. AOE depends on how long things will live. In quick AOE situations, BW + FS spam. On mobs that will live medium length (15 seconds or so), LB One, BW for an Impact proc, spread your LB, then FS Spam. If they'll live very long, set up a Combustion on one add, then Impact it to the rest before resuming BW + FS Spam and refreshing LB as needed.
02-27-2011, 08:46 AM
Thank you guys, your help is much appreciated :) I've done a few days of heroics now and my dps is really beginning to pick up! Can't wait for the raids.
03-20-2011, 12:36 AM
Personally I do have the glyph, cause as far as mages go minor glyphs are just a throw away.
In cata heroics I usually wont click mirror immages unless on boss fights, and even then usually last boss fights that I just want to burn quickly.
Flame orb is a amazing skill, with a 1 min CD and a chance to proc your hotstreak or pyroblast I will use this almost whenever it's up, in bosses ill start by click it and Living bomb before I even start casting,
as far as AoE goes there was a previous person who said use Living bomb on three targets the scorch spam for a impact to get everyone burning, but for fights like magmah when you need heavy AoE I found this just not enough damage at all. What I use for the most AoE damage I can possible put out is living bomb three people, then blast wave and then flamestrike spam as things are moving, for most heroics you wont have to do this at all. Just in heavy heavy AoE situations, also before I do that I usually switch to mage armor for just the AoE.
03-21-2011, 09:16 AM
I don't talent into Blastwave, doesn't seem very useful for raiding.
03-21-2011, 03:30 PM
You should always talent into blast wave. The reason being is that many fights involve multiple adds that must be kited in some fashion. Blast wave helps to slow those adds significantly in a situation where your hunter misplaces a trap, or any other unfavorable circumstance. Just to name a few, blast wave is useful to slow adds on magmaw if needed. Maloriak adds can also be slowd if your tank needs a quick break from taking a beating. On cho'gall, blast wave is a godsend for those one or two adds that may not go down with the rest of the group. There are more, but I think you get the point. Blast wave is a VERY useful talent, and should be taken in every fire spec.
Also, Phase 3 Nefarian is hell on earth for the tank if he/she is not a warrior. Any spare blast waves are greatly appreciated due to the fact that it slows, rather than root, so the adds do not get hit by shadow flame.
03-21-2011, 04:47 PM
Blastwave is very good with improved flamestrike. Not only because the slow that Wakarathe mentioned, but also it's low mana cost. However, in a pure single target dps build you can drop both and pyromaniac for cauterize/improved fire blast/arcane concentration or other utility talents.
03-21-2011, 04:48 PM
Note : You should never drop cauterize while doing progression content.
03-22-2011, 04:43 AM
you should be able to skip it for chimaeron though.
03-22-2011, 07:07 AM
Thanks, I'll respect and give it a try.
04-01-2011, 03:51 PM
Should be noted Blast Wave has no CD, unlike Flame Strike.
Mirror image last I knew served as a great tool to mitigate aggro when Invisibility and/or Ice Block is on CD.
Living Bomb will no longer have a CD as of 4.1.1... Does this even matter?
04-01-2011, 04:51 PM
"Should be noted Blast Wave has no CD, unlike Flame Strike."
Its actually the other way around for fire mages. Instant flamestrikes but a fairly short CD on Blast Wave.
You're right though in that Mirror Images is primarily a threat reduction CD. The lack of a cooldown on living bomb will make it easier for mouseover trash dotting.
Cooldown on living bomb? If im not crazy, there is no cooldown on LB in 4.06
04-04-2011, 07:42 AM
One thing i always use Mirrior Imagines for .... escaping ... when a tank dies in a heroic, i'll pop MI and go the way of invisibility. Its saved my Butt and pocket many times. It also pisses your group off but hey, no point in dieing if you don't have to.
04-09-2011, 11:31 AM
There are a few really good points in this thread to take away. Cauterize, in many mages (and my own) opinion, is very useful as a both a buffer for a mistake, and a way to push out a little more dps. When it procs, a quick mage ward/mana shield/healthstone is all you need to keep you alive through the burn.
Glyph of Mirror Images is actually a dps loss, because it causes your mirror images to NOT cast a Fire Blast immediately upon summoning, they will just start casting the primary spell instead. Not a huge damage loss, mind you, but some. Also they lose their snare effect. MI is a great "AMG I just hit a HUGE LB/Pyro/Ignite/Combust--> Impact spread on X amount of mobs, and they all just turned red and hate me now!!!!!" button...it defers all aggro (up to 9mil i think?) to your images. It gives either your tank the opportunity to pick things up, or you the opportunity to invis.
Flame Orb on anything you're fighting. Do note that Flame Orb's crit ignites have a tendency to overwrite our single target FB or Pyro crits, so if you're trying to line up a good combustion with LB, Ignite, and Pyro DoTs up, try not to have a Flame Orb out at that time.
Read: Ignite Munching
and for AoE, a quick way to drop mobs is to hard cast a Pyro, Living Bomb while the Pyro is in the air, combust once it hits, toss a blast wave if you dont have impact yet (hopefully blast wave procs it) and impact your buffet of dots to everything. from there keep a flamestrike down with either a hard cast or blast wave again. you can also after that LB one target and scorch it until another impact proc->spread->repeat.
04-11-2011, 11:41 AM
One other thing about mirror images.
In wrath with the t10, it was a dps cooldown but now, its more of a threat management cooldown. Use it early in a fight to let you dps and not worry too much about ripping aggro off the tank while they vengeance up. Just keep an eye on your threat meter in case you're in the red zone for when MI expires.
04-30-2012, 12:35 PM
Edit for above post, Blast Wave has no "GCD" (or at least a mini GCD). This barely interrupts a rotation when interjected because once cast you can instantly cast your next spell. Even on two targets this should increase you damage if done correctly.
05-01-2012, 05:59 PM
The main use of blast wave is to proc impact for getting a larger combustion. I don't believe that blast wave has a higher DPE then a fireball.
05-08-2012, 11:05 AM
Mini-global-cool-down. Try casting Blast Wave and follow with a fireball AT THE SAME TIME. It is not on a regular instant-cast cooldown, and does not take as long to recover from casting as spells like Living Bomb and Flame Orb. It's damage is low(ish) but is should not^ slow down your regular rotation one bit when cast in-between spells. Therefore it should not be looked at the same as other instant-cast spell, and not be compared as DPS to any other spell without considering fact that it can be cast without slowing a regular rotation down.
Try simultaneously casting another spell following a Blast Wave as fast as you can. You will be lucky to beat the speed of it's GDC. It will not interrupt a fireball spam for more than a split second, and will chance crits and procs like any spell. 2 targets you may want to use simply to chance impact. 3+ targets it simply cannot be denied.