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View Full Version : DPS Frost DPS--Hit cap and weapons



Allania
02-21-2011, 02:00 PM
So, once again, I'm asking about my death knight. I very much enjoy frost, and from what I've concluded, the best way to do well in it is to DW. My question is what is the hit cap for Dual Wielding? I've got a 10% hit cap so far, and yet have almost an 18% chance to miss with white weapon strikes. Is this important enough for me to reforge to gain more hit? Or is it best to use a 2h weapon considering there are both talent points for 2h and DW for frost? Note: I'd much prefer to DW, but I also don't want to considerably gimp my DPS. What should I do?

~Allania

Toushiro
02-21-2011, 02:38 PM
8% is the amount of hit you need, white hit cap is useless. If you stick to DW then use two 2.6+ speed weapons.

uglybbtoo
02-22-2011, 08:06 AM
I commented on this elsewhere the cap is roughly 8% you have racials and talents involved so hover over tooltip and check it says specials will not miss.

It is important you check the spell and melee hit caps because howling blast, death coil and dots are considered spells not melee.
From memory properly talented 8% melee is also around 13% spell which is the magic number.

sifuedition
02-22-2011, 08:13 AM
17% is the spell hit cap. Having said that, I would not attemp to cap for that.

As uglybbtoo stated, the spell hit and melee hit are each in their own section and are not the same, i.e. 8% melee hit is more spell hit.

uglybbtoo
02-22-2011, 08:15 AM
Talented they are almost the same from memory .. thats what that DW talent thing does.

I am playing warrior again atm so been a week and how the memory fades :=)

Netheras
02-22-2011, 08:34 AM
8% melee hit will get you spell hit capped. Period. It will also get your specials to hit every time, and beyond that, you don't have to worry.

Stat priority for DW frost: Strength > Hit to cap >= Expertise to cap > Mastery > Crit > Haste

In case you were wondering. Pulled from the newly updated Frost thread by Consider @ EJ

Which also shows that 2h is now viable, in case you were thinking of switching.

uglybbtoo
02-22-2011, 05:29 PM
8% melee hit will get you spell hit capped. Period

Sorry that is wrong it is correct with the right talents which in the context EJ's would have been using would be right for where they discussed it.

It's a minor correction but important given the OP has given us no spec.

If you bother to spend 2 seconds to hover over the spell hit cap on your tooltip you will find it is a number other than 8% mine is almost 17% which gives me 0% miss. That 17% is bought about by the 8% melee hit, talents and racials.

Netheras
02-22-2011, 06:43 PM
8% melee hit chance will get you spell hit chance capped. Better?

First, your talented hit is not reflected in the tooltip. Special hit cap I suppose would be at 5% but I didn't say that specifically because getting to 8% melee hit, will get you spell hit capped. Period.

Second, because of the change to Runic Focus, you get spell hit from what used to be in Virulence.

The exact wording is as follows: "Unlike most casters, a Death Knight's spells cause double damage on critical hits, and their chance to hit is increased by 9%. Spells are all Death Knight abilities that are not direct weapon strikes."

That 8% hit that you get for melee hit (what I was talking about in the first place) will automatically get you to the spell hit cap because you get a bit more than that for your spell hit, plus the 9% from Runic focus will always get you to 17% or more (I'm at 18.46% myself).

The OP didn't have to give a spec, the 8% is true with either spec.

I usually know what I'm talking about. I didn't say that 8% spell hit was needed. I said 8% melee hit.

uglybbtoo
02-23-2011, 02:12 AM
First, your talented hit is not reflected in the tooltip. Special hit cap I suppose would be at 5% but I didn't say that specifically because getting to 8% melee hit, will get you spell hit capped. Period..

Before making any more comment write down you spell, range and melee hit caps then go to trainer and untalent yourself even select frost spec but dont spend any points. Now look at your your numbers a very obvious thing will become apparent to you I promise :-)

If you are in any doubt that the numbers are real go an whack on a dummy for a while and I assure you the numbers are real.

I have tested the effect of each and every talent because I can't get my simulator to work without it. I have measured the effect of each and every talent because sometimes the tooltip is wrong sometimes blizz doesnt have it working properly.

I didn't just read this I tested this !!!!!

There are some funky things you can do to get seperation between the two caps I will leave it to you to think about that.

However you are correct for a normal gear selection and normal spec the hit required to get you to 8% melee will give you spell hit coverage. It is a design norm blizz setup not a set law that it is so.

Netheras
02-23-2011, 07:39 AM
Actually, I did. Before I posted my last post. I spent about 120 gold doing so, just to be sure. I made sure I grabbed up the talents that would otherwise change my hit.

At this point I'm not sure you're even reading the rest of my post, but ok. The tooltip did not change. If my hit did change, it wouldn't matter, since 8% tooltip melee hit will get you spell hit capped. It is just that simple.

Regardless of the talents, which DW would pick up as it is, they would need their tooltip to read 8% melee hit. And that would get their spell hit to 17%. I can't tell if you're trying to say that the 3% from talents would reduce the amount of hit you need to get to the spell hit cap, and I agree with you on that except that the tooltip does not reflect it. But I can't actually tell what you're trying to say. Which is why if you just get to 8% melee hit, you'll be fine. Because that is safe.

It occurs to me that maybe you're trying to say you need 17% spell hit for the spell hit cap? It really is hard to follow you, but if that is the case, I said multiple times that 8% melee hit will transfer into a bit more spell hit, plus the 9% from Runic Focus... but either way the discussion is dead in the water.

Allania
02-23-2011, 10:56 AM
Okay, through the interesting discussion about hit cap, not to relight any fires, I'm going to assume that 8% hit cap should be good enough, and that I shouldn't worry about white wep strikes. Thanks for the advice, def made me worry less. I'd hate to have to gear for infinity hit rating. : /
<3
~Allania