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Lore
02-18-2011, 08:47 PM
Qr_Ckd1u3Sw

This week:
- Does PVP take more skill than PVE?
- How can we progress on a boss when there's no guides yet?
- When is it time to start working on hard modes?
- What are some tips for impressing a new guild?
and more!

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Jamesondrinker
02-18-2011, 11:47 PM
In regards to the first question, about the pvp/pve skill thing:

I wouldn't exactly say that pvp just takes more skill than pve, its just that pvp, like you said, requires much (much) more on the spot thinking and decision making, and so the majority of the high end pvp community will say that it does require more skill. Another big reason for that is the fact that a lot of PvE'ers (the ones who ONLY PvE) tried out pvp at one point in their wow life, and didn't take the time to actually learn how to do it properly, and then they just got stomped, and so they decided that they hate PvP, and are only ever going to PvE, except during the holidays when a certain acheivement requires that they do some weird thing in a bg.

-And also, I would definitely say that PvP has a steeper learning curve than raiding, although i am sort of biased, having raided in the past but now i arena and rbg and thats about it.

Tigrayne
02-19-2011, 10:18 AM
Thanks again for another great episode of PST.

Concerning the use of death logs, could you please post the name of the addon you use in combination with Skada?

Thanks a lot,
Tigrayne

Uranos7
02-20-2011, 01:47 AM
I agree with Lore's annalogy that PVE and PVP are equal but seperate skills. ;)

Believing that one or the other takes more skill leads to elitist thought that "Since I am good at X and it's harder I would be awesome at Y."
Which because they are different skills is not true. :eek:

It is true that a great PVP'er will have an advantage at PVE, and a great PVE raider will have an advantage at PVP; but niether will be great unless they put time and effort into the other skill. :cool:

TY for another great show Lore! :o

raccoonmask
02-20-2011, 06:07 AM
Always interesting watching these.. seeing what problems people have and the interesting solutions we get. I'm finding it fascinating and often helpful. And of course, Lore's charming personality.
Although this week Lore looked very tired, made me worried he's raiding too much... ^.^

rchrdwell
02-20-2011, 07:59 AM
Lore, thanks for your tips for being a recruit. I am the new guy in a guild and the quote "Just be there and be a badass" hit home. Thanks for the weekly marmot. Look forward to next weeks!

Kahmal
02-20-2011, 11:06 PM
I have to say that with the possible exception of raiders like Paragon, PvP takes more skill. Sure there are lots of mods to assist you in PvP but their really just timers to help people a bit more visually challenged, so they can track CDs and what not. Boss mods literally tell you what's going to happen and when.

I've been raiding for years now and I honestly feel that I could raid with Paragon, seems to me that they just invest a whole lot of time into the content. Now becoming a Gladiator or Tournament winner....thats a far cry and I think I'm a pretty decent PvPer (2180 farthest I've gotten in 3s)

Watching PvP videos with commentary amazes me at just how klutch these guys are in an Arena. You could say a gladiator has PvP down to the point where it's almost like he does have a boss mod since they are able to predict what is going to happen just by calculating what abilities aren't on CD, taking position into account, etc.

However even though it is common theory that PvPers make great PvErs, I have always seen Gladiators and Arena Masters just terrible in PvE which I could never comprehend.

Suffo
02-21-2011, 11:36 AM
What addon is the death log thing? ahtron? wat?

Quinafoi
02-21-2011, 12:00 PM
What addon is the death log thing? ahtron? wat?

Acheron
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/acheron.aspx

Alternatively if you already use Recount, its death logs are decent.

Aroa
02-21-2011, 12:03 PM
What addon is the death log thing? ahtron? wat?
The addon is called Acheron (http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/acheron.aspx).

Ion
02-21-2011, 12:09 PM
Yay for commenting before refreshing...IT'S ACHERON! (So say we all)

redraven937
02-22-2011, 12:13 AM
PvP = Improvising
PvE = Choreography

As a raid leader, Acheron is absolutely amazing for figuring out what happened to who at what time. You can filter out buff/aura notices, debuffs, and even post the death reports in raid chat (or wherever). Unless something has changed recently, the addon itself has not been updated in over 6 months, but following the instruction vis-a-vis updating the Ace3 libraries makes it Cata-compliant. I just wish someone would take over the project full-time so it can be ironed out a bit more and continue getting the publicity it deserves.

Ruin
02-22-2011, 04:48 AM
PvE is like playing chess against a machine that is going to do the same moves again and again and again in every single game. It's tricky until you've beaten it once and after that you're basically just trained monkeys. Even worse, you slowly get better gear so it should be easier every time. Even more worse, there will be guides and addons that tell you exactly what to do and when. If you can follow basic instructions, you should have no problem pveing. Obviously that doesn't apply to world first guilds.

PvP is like playing chess against an actual opponent who does interesting and new things every time.

They are different skill sets and the truly elite on either side are equal, but beyond that, amongst the rank and file, it's pvp all the way, and I say that as a half decent pve player who totally sucked immense crusty donkey balls at pvp.

Quinafoi
02-22-2011, 09:14 AM
PvP versus PvE

Who cares? If I'm recruiting for a raid, I don't care how good you are at running a flag. If I'm recruiting for a rated battleground, I don't care what heroic mode bosses you've killed.

Skill is a matter of an individual in a context.

All I care about is how good you will be in the context I will put you in.

How good you are is both a function of you as a player, and the context you are playing in. Some people excel in both areas. Others excel in one or the other. Some fail at both. When you're talking about skill it really doesn't matter how good you are at basketball if I'm recruiting for a football team. This is why Lore is saying it's a different set of skills, granted some skills overlap. Being a good PvP player doesn't mean you are automatically a better player than a PvE player or vice versa.

This arguement is like saying basketball requires more skill than football. So naturally, basketball players are better athletes than football players. How good an athelete someone may be is a matter of that individual in a context. You put a basketball player on a football field suddenly they may not look so good.

Kazeyonoma
02-22-2011, 04:19 PM
@the significant other question:
What is she doing not in the kitchen?

I KID I KID!!!!

Bovinity
02-22-2011, 04:25 PM
I've been raiding for years now and I honestly feel that I could raid with Paragon, seems to me that they just invest a whole lot of time into the content. Now becoming a Gladiator or Tournament winner....thats a far cry and I think I'm a pretty decent PvPer (2180 farthest I've gotten in 3s)

Pretty much...have you seen the raid schedules of these world-first guilds during progression? Of course they get kills fast when they're raiding for that many hours a week!

The problem with discussion PvE vs. PvP skills is that it's akin to a political debate. People are going to choose one side of the aisle and stick to it no matter what, and no discussion will sway them. Personally - as someone who does both quite a bit, currently downing some heroic raid bosses and doing some BGs/Arena - I'll happily say that PvP is much more demanding of my attention, reflexes, foresight, etc. Some will agree, some will disagree, that's just how it goes.

Subetei
02-24-2011, 04:47 PM
PVE requires more organizational skill... so the question isn't whether 1 pvper can pick up raiding easier but could 25 pvpers form themselves into a cohesive group that can do anything other than get out interrupts well. even in BGs the strategies are pretty simple. yes pve is pretty easy when all the organizational things are done by someone else. they are different skills and it doesn't matter which takes more.