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View Full Version : Tanking Imp Rev onsolete in 4.0.6 for Prot warrior?



Drasnal
02-14-2011, 11:39 PM
Is speccing in improved revenge obsolete sinse 4.0.6?
I am seeing revenge doing little damage compared to e. G. devestate: 8k compared to in single target situation. Is it still worth speccing? I have glyphed sunder armor to hit another target and war academy 3/3, in my opinion that almost negates the hitting two targets in AoE situations.
Am I wrong?

Petninja
02-14-2011, 11:54 PM
It needs a buff to be sure, but it should be putting out more damage than Devastate. At the least it's more damage per rage. Try it without it, and if it works for you that's great. There's no harm in trying a different spec.

klausi
02-15-2011, 01:55 AM
damage per rage: revenge wins clearly
damage per execute: devastate comes really close thanks to +20% crit (talent + glyph), but it's still 1/10 behind even on high incoming damage fights

Taking thunderstruck or an utility talent over it can be worth it.

Lightmgl
02-15-2011, 05:11 AM
I'm tempted to ditch Revenge altogether as it really only stands out in multi target now (since it works like a minicleave) and my current tanking spec does not have War Academy in it due to the fact that I took Piercing Howl and Safeguard instead.

I think I would actually gain more threat from dropping imp revenge, throwing the 2 points into War Academy, and ditching revenge altogether at this point since I would get the gains of War Academy on 3 devastates per typical rotation (since I have 0 war academy now and would replace revenge with devastate) compared to the single revenge every 6 seconds.

Revenge's scaling seems to be not so great, I would wager a heroic raid tank weapon would put devastate up very close to it when comparing 3/3 war academy vs 2/2 imp revenge.

Fayainz
02-15-2011, 07:22 AM
As far as I'm aware the threat modifier is set rather high on Revenge, yes it doesn't do as much damage but it produces more threat.

Brage
02-15-2011, 09:19 AM
I'm running with both imp. revenge and 3/3 War academy, and revenge is still comming out on top threat wise, but we're talking marginally here.
But, when factoring in the SnB procs, the better AP scaling and the higher crit rate on devastate, devastate could easilly overtake revenge with abit of luck.

I won't be ditching Revenge anytime soon though, mainly because it's our best rage/threat skill, and i'm running with 1/3 shield specialization. Not to mention that with the nerf to Cleave, imp. revenge is even more competitive in an aoe scenario.

Caric
02-15-2011, 10:11 AM
Revenge procs S&B too now.

Drasnal
02-15-2011, 10:48 AM
It is more damage rage, ok. But I am far of having rage or threat issues. So I will try to ditch it and will report if it works out. Thanks for your thoughts!

Tengenstein
02-15-2011, 10:49 AM
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong: Revenge has always procced SnB, and last I heard Revenge had only 7 additional baked in threat, the rest is from damage and the defensive stance multiplier.

Drasnal
02-15-2011, 11:27 AM
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong: Revenge has always procced SnB, and last I heard Revenge had only 7 additional baked in threat, the rest is from damage and the defensive stance multiplier.

If I am understanding the tooltip right devestate equally procs SnB as does revenge...
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=46953/sword-and-board

Caric
02-15-2011, 02:33 PM
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong: Revenge has always procced SnB, and last I heard Revenge had only 7 additional baked in threat, the rest is from damage and the defensive stance multiplier.

That I can't answer. I don't believe it used to, I think it was something new they put in this patch but I could be mistaken.

Kazeyonoma
02-15-2011, 03:42 PM
revenge has always proc'd SnB since Sword and Board was released.

Caric
02-15-2011, 05:52 PM
revenge has always proc'd SnB since Sword and Board was released.

Clearly I need to learn to read tooltips better lol. First time I noticed it was after the patch.

Pruke
02-16-2011, 06:36 AM
Had you never hit revenge and had a SnB proc and realised that was why it proc'd? Surely, you didn't hit revenge have SnB proc and assume you hit devastate, everytime it's happened :)

Pastulio
02-16-2011, 01:38 PM
the only time it did not proc SnB was on the PTR. everyone was like "well this is stupid" and blizzard was all like "ya your right this is stupid". so they added revenge to SnB before the patch went live and all everyone was happy and then we had ice cream.

Kojiyama
02-18-2011, 05:06 AM
Short Answers:

1) Revenge without Improved Revenge is obsolete in most cases. Don't use it without Improved Revenge unless you are rage-starved.

2) Revenge with Improved Revenge is not obsolete, but it isn't particularly awesome either.

If you are skipping points on Deep Wounds or Cruelty due to spending points on Improved Revenge (say 35 points in Protection) it may be worth considering swapping out of Improved Revenge for single-target fights. Deep Wounds is better on single targets than the gain from using Improved Revenge.

wakefield4011
02-18-2011, 11:40 AM
I was just reviewing my WoL data from last night and, on single target fights, revenge still managed to be about 10% or so more damage done per use than devastate. Two other factors to consider are revenge's lighter rage cost and devastate's increased crit (and consequent increased DW uptime).

I am planning to change my 2nd spec to a single target tanking spec. The only sticking point for me is imp rev vs. imp victory. As it stands, I'll stick w/ imp rev, but I'm wondering when devastate will scale past imp rev on single targets (and if the heftier rage cost will nullify that).

From what I can gather, devastate scales better. 1017 (when 3 sunders are up) + 150% weapon damage vs. 1798 (avg) * 55% ap. That would be in devastate's favor, right? Or would the raw ap go up faster enough than the same ap would increase the weapon damage to counter the inferior ratio?

TL;DR-What sort of tanking gear will be required for devastate to outdamage revenge? Heroic gear? Next tier? Does dev even scale better than rev?

Kojiyama
02-18-2011, 01:17 PM
Both scale at fairly similar rates relative to available gear. The problem is Improved Revenge totally props Revenge up. Without it, there is simply no point. The gains from using Revenge are small enough to be beat out handily by Deep Wounds, for instance, when considering the 2 point cost of Improved Revenge on single targets.

Bakabon
02-19-2011, 10:29 AM
Has anyone looked into the possibility of taking Impending Victory now over Improved Revenge? With War Academy buffing both Victory Rush and Devastate, and cutting out Revenge meaning more Devastates meaning more Victory Rush procs, it seems like it might be a meaningful DPS + survival boost during execute phase...

Petninja
02-19-2011, 05:09 PM
IV would still be a DPS loss, but could help your survival. I picked it up to toy with it and found that it heals for a lot, but I sit on a proc until I need the heal and do my regular rotation. If I get low I can just bring myself back up again.