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Speech
02-10-2011, 11:53 AM
Preface & Disclaimer: I believe that the warrior class is a bit stagnate in some areas. This is just a way to add some much needed depth to the class. Even more, it will hopefully give you an idea of ways to make this class more fun and you will then share it. Flames are encouraged as crappy ideas (this included) should be burned.

The Idea: Make Mortal strike / Blood thirst / Shield Slam give the warrior a stacking buff, we will call it "Tactics". Once your Tactics is at 3 stacks, some of the warrior's abilities are modified in addition to the regular effect, and Tactics is consumed. Raging blow could add a bleed effect, Thunderclap could have a small knockback, Disarm could disorient the target, intercept could add a short term runspeed buff, im sure you could think of more.

For example : JoeFurywar is in a raid, he gets his 3 stacks of tactics and then raging blows for an extra bleed. However, next time his tactics stacks to three, an add phase has started and instead of Raging blow for a bleed, he Cleaves and his tactics makes his cleave hit two additional targets.

This type of system gives warriors more options, and opportunities to be smart about game play and be rewarded for it. Also it gives a unique knob to turn for pve vrs pvp since warriors would have to choose between more damage through some abilities or more control or utility through others.

Would you like more options? How would you do it?

Kazeyonoma
02-10-2011, 12:03 PM
i don't think the warrior has "less" options at all, we have a very dynamic resource mechanic, we scale the best with gear, we have very dynamic rotations for all 3 specs with fury probably being 1 proc less to watch, and we maintain high mobility. I don't think adding any extra resource to make us more like DKs or Paladin's would make us more 'fun' to play, it'd just add an unnecessary complexity to an already somewhat dense class.

mrwisdom
02-10-2011, 12:39 PM
i feel like your trying to combine paladin holy power charges with warriors from allods online

Reev
02-10-2011, 12:41 PM
i feel like your trying to combine paladin holy power charges with warriors from allods online

Holy Power + Chakras/Tree of Life.

Honestly, Warriors are in a really good place. We have a huge toolkit and we operate very effectively in general. We don't need more, and adding more would mean we'd have to be balanced around it. Meaning we'd have to start monitoring that also, because we would have to be nerfed without it to compensate.

Dedic
02-10-2011, 01:10 PM
Of all the tank classes, you want warriors to have more depth? Have you ever played a pally? All I hear about is how pallies are easy, anybody can be a pally tank, and the great players play warriors cuz the class is so much more complex and situational. So I'm almost offended at the idea of adding even more depth to the deepest tank class in the game.

Loganisis
02-10-2011, 01:49 PM
i don't think the warrior has "less" options at all, we have a very dynamic resource mechanic, we scale the best with gear, we have very dynamic rotations for all 3 specs with fury probably being 1 proc less to watch, and we maintain high mobility. I don't think adding any extra resource to make us more like DKs or Paladin's would make us more 'fun' to play, it'd just add an unnecessary complexity to an already somewhat dense class.

"very dynamic" Great euphism for "maddeningly RNG" XD

I think Fury could benefit somewhat... but moreso from adding one more proc ability to make it a little more 'keep your eye out'. I don't know arms, and for Prot... I doubt anyone would bother to check with the 83 other buffs/buttons/debuffs/and CDs to keep track of.

In all honestly, this doesn't seem like adding options to me, but rather a free 'buff'. I certainly agree with the sentiment that I don't want to have to deal with the mini-resource that is Holy Power.

sifuedition
02-10-2011, 01:57 PM
Of all the tank classes, you want warriors to have more depth? Have you ever played a pally? All I hear about is how pallies are easy, anybody can be a pally tank, and the great players play warriors cuz the class is so much more complex and situational. So I'm almost offended at the idea of adding even more depth to the deepest tank class in the game.

To be fair, anyone can be a warrior tank too. There are still differences between good pallys and bad ones. The biggest difference is the gap between the top and the bottom. The bottom of the warrior tanks is really low and the bottom of the pally tanks might still be able to complete a cata heroic. I take that back..I have had some pally tanks who may never finish one. But they might be able to get a boss or two down.

I play a pally tank and a warrior tank. I feel I play both well. There are players of both who don't deserve the job but I don't think the class should get less respect because of any of this. I also don't believe that the "best tanks" all switch away from pallys.

Speech
02-10-2011, 07:23 PM
i don't think the warrior has "less" options at all, we have a very dynamic resource mechanic, we scale the best with gear, we have very dynamic rotations for all 3 specs with fury probably being 1 proc less to watch, and we maintain high mobility. I don't think adding any extra resource to make us more like DKs or Paladin's would make us more 'fun' to play, it'd just add an unnecessary complexity to an already somewhat dense class.

Thankyou for the responses. I'm speaking from a fury pov which has clearly skewed my view more than i thought! I'm glad to see that at least tanking wise warriors feel very well rounded as opposed to the four button wonder that is fury. Thanks again.

Muffin Man
02-10-2011, 07:34 PM
Fury still has great mobility, sadly warrior mobility doesn't get featured enough since that would punish other melee classes I suppose. And yet, it's ok to punish all melee equally like Atramedes air phase (not bitter about doing nothing for 40 seconds, nope).

One thing I do miss actually is that Shield Slam is prot only now, so Arms/Fury lost their offensive dispel.

Kazeyonoma
02-10-2011, 07:37 PM
work on al'akir as fury or arms and tell me warrior mobility isn't shining in that fight.

between charge to get back in, leap to get the hell out. and bladestorm countering wind burst knock back. i can stay on the boss almost 99% of the time and still never get hit by the gale lines.

Muffin Man
02-10-2011, 08:07 PM
Good to hear. My gulid is slow so who knows when that'll be, but Throne of the Four Winds looks pretty fun.

Katzazi
02-12-2011, 06:26 AM
As others said, warriors don't need something like this. Ok, fury does not have a complex base "rotation". But you have a lot to monitor and to screw up going on without such a new resource. (I know it because I always manage to screw something up, when I have to switch over to fury. It has more deth than "keep your debuffs rolling all the time" other classes have for example. It's a little bit like mages, the core is easy or even boring but to be good you have to add much more.

Anyway, your combinaiton of Holy Power with Chakra for warriors would just not work.

Holy Power works, because you use your Holy Power with a button you cannot and don't use without any Holy Power. So you just add the button to the rotation if you have all the Holy Power you have. And you have a (small) set of abilities that you can chose out of for it.

Chakra works, because holy priests just don't have a fixed rotation, anyway. They select their spells more or less independently of each othe to cover the healing need of the current situation. They don't build up something for chakra. It's on a CD. As soon as it is over they can decide, that the next button is the one that enters the next chakra for some time. And because they tell the game which button should be the one to start the chakra with another button it works. (Well ok, you can skrew it up anyway, by using the wrong button after chakra because someone just needed this other heal now.)

The difference of your idea is that you want to release the tactics with stuff you use in the normal rotation, anyway. And you even selected abilities that could be used together, since cleave is off the GCD. If you want to release the power with something you use normaly you need another button like chakra has. And honestly, prot warriors already use 3 abilities at the same time regularly, anyway. Do you realy think that we need another one to integrate? I doubt that there is any other class that covers so many GCDs with a button - while also using stuff regularly off the GCD.

Btw: It's already hard (if impossible) to get all prot warrior ablities covred with good key bindings:
- 3 abilities for base rotation
- 2 for hs/cleave
- 4 more (Rend, Shockwave, TC, Demo) are used regularly at least on trash
- 5 others (taunt, interrupt, stun, spell reflect, berserker rage) have to be added to cover different situations also regularly
- 2 pull abilities (Heroic throw, charge) are needed
That are already 16 abilities which are used often or regularly and stuff like CDs (3+trinkets, stone, pot, ...), shouts (1-2), mobility (intervene, intercept, heroic jump) are not even mentioned. All of this have to be available easily. This abilities are not just something weird that is used only in gimic encounters, which could also be added to the list.

Destruyen
02-12-2011, 07:20 AM
Btw: It's already hard (if impossible) to get all prot warrior ablities covred with good key bindings:
- 3 abilities for base rotation
- 2 for hs/cleave
- 4 more (Rend, Shockwave, TC, Demo) are used regularly at least on trash
- 5 others (taunt, interrupt, stun, spell reflect, berserker rage) have to be added to cover different situations also regularly
- 2 pull abilities (Heroic throw, charge) are needed
That are already 16 abilities which are used often or regularly and stuff like CDs (3+trinkets, stone, pot, ...), shouts (1-2), mobility (intervene, intercept, heroic jump) are not even mentioned. All of this have to be available easily. This abilities are not just something weird that is used only in gimic encounters, which could also be added to the list.

it's not that hard honestly, i feel that i don't have a bunch of keybinds with prot compared to arms pvp (~35-40 keybinds) and my other toons.