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dacondor
02-09-2011, 08:51 AM
With the new buff to our mastery, is it worth putting straight mastery gems in yellow sockets? Also what will you be using for blue sockets? which socket bonuses are worth it? and is it worth it to get some mastery enchants?

cattebrie
02-09-2011, 09:03 AM
Yes, I was wondering the same thing

Kazeyonoma
02-09-2011, 11:31 AM
str is still way better than mastery in terms of dps output. you basically just want to fill slots with str as much as possible.

Ion
02-09-2011, 11:43 AM
str is still way better than mastery in terms of dps output. you basically just want to fill slots with str as much as possible.

Yep. Mastery is nice and all, but Enrage isn't 100% uptime (not even close), DW is 30s out of 2.4m, Raging Blow is only a % of our dps and it's ALSO affected by STR.

I haven't done any math on it, but I expect crit is pretty similar, even...since it affects flurry uptime, deep wounds, etc.

Mastery is a good stat now, if you have an item with crit on it, it's fine to reforge the other stat into mastery, but I'm dubious that even gemming it as the secondary stat on an orange gem is even worth doing. I'm sure someone who plays more fury than I do will do some math there...or has already.

The Hoof
02-09-2011, 11:55 AM
Current conventional wisdom on Elitist Jerks is that from a stat stanpoint:

Hit (to 8%) > Exp (to 26) > Str > Crit > Mastery > Hit (to 27%) > Haste

So you'd actually be better off with Crit gems if you're trying to keep slot bonuses.

Bung
02-09-2011, 12:37 PM
Imo the only attractive slot bonus is +10 str. So my general rule is +40 str in every slot without that bonus. Str/hit in blue slots with +10 str bonus and str/crit in yellow slots with +10 str bonus.

Kerg
02-09-2011, 04:26 PM
Current conventional wisdom on Elitist Jerks is that from a stat stanpoint:

Hit (to 8%) > Exp (to 26) > Str > Crit > Mastery > Hit (to 27%) > Haste

So you'd actually be better off with Crit gems if you're trying to keep slot bonuses.

This is what I followed post-patch, dropping all hit above 8% in favor of crit > mastery. Used str/hit in blue slots and str/crit in yellows. DPS post-patch jumped about 15%. (Gear level is only 339, just bought xpac 2 weeks ago after a long break from the game. Average DPS in heroics jumped from about 9500 to 11000.)

Magnuss
02-09-2011, 05:32 PM
I disagree with this thinking. Until I see math to definitely prove otherwise then stacking hit to a large degree is still going to be very good. People seem to make the very bold assumption that they wont be using Heroic Strike anymore except for in very high rage situations. If you followed the build to stack hit exceptionally high then you are still absolutely capable of hitting heroic strike a huge portion of the time. Since it doesnt trigger the GCD and you can use Inner Rage to speed up its cooldown time, having the hit to continue to generate large amounts of rage is still extremely good. It comes down to adjusting your priority to put slam much higher than it was before. Even still, heroic strike does more damage in a single target fight then my slam ever will just because of its chance to proc. Mastery is still pretty far down on my totem pole.

Again, until I see some seriously well thought out math to say otherwise I think that EJ is making alot of assumptions that are necessarily correct. Im happy to change my view if someone can find otherwise.

Edit: In doing more looking on this I understand the ideology of swapping hit and mastery to make raging blow better especially with the change to War Academy. I just wonder if that idea is taking the high usage of Inner Rage and if it will actually net out to be better. I guess I will have to see for myself.

Muffin Man
02-09-2011, 05:58 PM
I feel that you're approaching the paradigm shift the wrong way.

You can absolutely keep hit up if you want to spam HS. But it's damage per rage is very low. And of course keeping hit up is going to keep your other stats low.

It's also the *most* expensive ability, so if you plan on maxing out HS dmg via Inner Rage then you will need a huge rage income to make that possible.

You can make HS up on your personal damage charge by percentage, but that's from volume.

HS got nerfed twice, it's base damage and removal from War Academy.
By comparison, Raging Blow and Slam both got buffed for Fury.

I don't have any math to present you, but I'm incredibly skeptical that HS spam is the way to go.

Magnuss
02-09-2011, 06:05 PM
And I see your point for sure. I am actually testing this stuff right this moment between mastery over hit with my crit level the same (at 20%). Still have lots of runs to do but ill see what I come up with and share it somewhere on these forums.

mrmojoz
02-11-2011, 10:31 AM
And I see your point for sure. I am actually testing this stuff right this moment between mastery over hit with my crit level the same (at 20%). Still have lots of runs to do but ill see what I come up with and share it somewhere on these forums.

Wrong way isn't it? You'd want to max out your crit, then mastery to give a true comparison between the builds. Just swapping mastery and hit isn't going to give accurate results.

Lettuce
02-11-2011, 12:51 PM
It's not that stacking crit/mastery over hit is going to be the absolute best for everyone, it's that these numbers are from spreadsheets of BiS gear. There IS in fact a lot of math that has been done on EJ, between 2 different threads, and it has been said that the maximum dps potential comes from a low hit, high crit/mastery setup, with Titan's Grip.

This also all depends on what you are wearing. If you have 2 epic 1h's, and 2 blue 2h's, SMF may work out better for you. If you have gear that is stacked with mastery/crit and no hit, you may want to stick with the stats you have, and get your hit to 8% on just a few pieces. If your gear is Crit/Hit stacked, and you like it that way, keep it. There are lots of options currently, and none of them is going to be horrible... just some setups will have a higher potential dps.

I personally like these changes, as it makes nearly every stat combination viable in some regard. If you just happen to have crappy plate pieces with odd expertise/mastery green stats, you aren't gonna feel like that mastery is wasted even after reforging.

On Topic: Reading this made me rethink what sockets I may be trying to hit. +10 and +20 strength bonuses are probably all I will be gemming correctly.

larsulrich
03-05-2011, 01:37 AM
Hit (to 8%) > Exp (to 26) > Str > Crit > Mastery > Hit (to 27%) > Haste

im a retard i guess. i dont know what this means..

ok, i get 8% hit. then what? hit to 27%?
it says str>crit... ok great but what are the crit numbers to get?
it says haste. what percent?

i ask other good wars and they say stack tons of hit. now they say 8%.

so. what to do?

Loganisis
03-05-2011, 01:43 AM
It's a priority system...

Do you have 8% hit, if no, gem hit. If yes:
do you have 26 expertise, if no, game expertise, if yes:
Gem strength, or if the socket bonus is good:
Gem Crit or mastery to match (yellow or blue).

If you don't like your rage generation, gem str/hit (hit to 27%)

And NEVER EVER gem haste. XD

*Err... Only gem hit/exp if you need it to hit the marks and you can't reforge haste to hit/exp because gems give you a chance to gem strength, and you can't reforge to strength and only enchant limited to strength.

mrmojoz
03-15-2011, 01:20 PM
It's a priority system...
Gem Crit or mastery to match (yellow or blue).


Not sure gemming Mastery is the way to go for Fury or Arms, Crit tends to have the better SEP.

Loganisis
03-15-2011, 02:06 PM
Not sure gemming Mastery is the way to go for Fury or Arms, Crit tends to have the better SEP.

Yeah, I've come around to that thinking. I'm a little redfaced re-reading what I posted... I think at this point it's all +str unless it's a yellow and a +20 crit bonus or the helm has a yellow/blue and a +30 str bonus.

I'd also expect some Red/(Yellow/Blue) pants/legs will have a bonus making it worthwhile, but that's going to be pretty situational.

Deathwish238
04-14-2011, 07:40 AM
With the new buff to our mastery, is it worth putting straight mastery gems in yellow sockets? Also what will you be using for blue sockets? which socket bonuses are worth it? and is it worth it to get some mastery enchants?

Definitely don't want to do Mastery gems. Unless the socket bonus is +20 Strength or better do nothing but +40 Str Bold Inferno Rubies. If you want the bonus, gem +20 Str +20 hit and +20 Str +20 Crit.


For Fury you won't go wrong doing: Str > 26 Expertise > 8% Hit > Crit > Mastery == Hit > Haste

In other words, get Crit and Hit on every piece possible while capping Expertise.


It's a priority system...

Do you have 8% hit, if no, gem hit. If yes:
do you have 26 expertise, if no, game expertise, if yes:
Gem strength, or if the socket bonus is good:
Gem Crit or mastery to match (yellow or blue).

If you don't like your rage generation, gem str/hit (hit to 27%)

And NEVER EVER gem haste. XD

*Err... Only gem hit/exp if you need it to hit the marks and you can't reforge haste to hit/exp because gems give you a chance to gem strength, and you can't reforge to strength and only enchant limited to strength.

You can pretty much always get enough Hit/Expertise by reforging other stats...so having to gem Hit/Expertise over Strength is usually not needed.

Loganisis
04-14-2011, 09:38 AM
You can pretty much always get enough Hit/Expertise by reforging other stats...so having to gem Hit/Expertise over Strength is usually not needed.

Agreed - and fixed later on in the thread.


Yeah, I've come around to that thinking. I'm a little redfaced re-reading what I posted... I think at this point it's all +str unless it's a yellow and a +20 crit bonus or the helm has a yellow/blue and a +30 str bonus.

I'd also expect some Red/(Yellow/Blue) pants/legs will have a bonus making it worthwhile, but that's going to be pretty situational.