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Tinytankz
01-29-2011, 12:09 AM
I feel this is mandatory as it is stuck in my head and im titling my thread as such (http://soundcloud.com/lecastlevania/designer-drugs-back-up-in-this-le-castle-vania-rrrump-computer-club-remix)

Alright so hit me I've been gone for a bit but i'm back up in this #$%&. I'm looking to tank up to 85 and start putting in some hours on the old laptop here. I played all the way up until last november and i was tanking hard modes in icc (it was out for a year and some change who wasnt really?) I would like to think i know a thing or two about my warrior but i realize things have changed since the OG 4.0.1 stuff so if it is at all possible I need the following

Where are warriors at in terms of current content?
Am i still liking mastery for evening out damage intake?
Socket bonus and stat priorities? (AM I STAM STACKING? if not can some one throw me the link to the math thread wherever that may be)
Are tanks still so rare that i can find a guild pretty quick?

Katzazi
01-29-2011, 03:51 AM
Where are warriors at in terms of current content?
Am i still liking mastery for evening out damage intake?
Socket bonus and stat priorities? (AM I STAM STACKING? if not can some one throw me the link to the math thread wherever that may be)
Are tanks still so rare that i can find a guild pretty quick?

1. I don't understand your first question.

2. I don't know what you like, but it's the best thing to do at the moment. And Avoidance afterwards.

3. I don't want to throw math at you. Because I don't know what that should look like. Stamina does what it always did, avoidance and mitigation does what it always did. Stamina does not help to reduce dmg, avoidance and mitigation does. Healer mana (and healing time) really does matter, now. On the other hand dmg income is less spiky, at least if you are dealing with the encounter mechanics in an appropriate way. So dmg prevention, avoidance and mitigation help much more than higher life. Additionally you cannot push your stamina very good. You can only do this by trinket selection and gemming. (There is not a greate variance of tanking enchants for a given slot.)

In most cases it's better to gem for mastery instead of stamina. If you take socke bonuses or not, is up to you. There are some who try to gem purely for mastery. Others take the bonusses, because the differences between the gems is not as drastic as in wrath. You get more ratings if you take bonusses, so in many cases this is just better. Anyway, both strategies will only vary in 1-4 gems or something, because you want to get your meta activated, anyway. If you go for socket bonusses go blue: stam/mastery, yellow: mastery, red: parry/mastery.

Well you can gem half (or full) for stamina, too, if you like, but most of us refuse to do so, because it's probably not worth it. The buffed HP difference between gemming full stamina and none stamina is about 8k. Tank start to raid at arount 160k, so it's about 5% of tank life.

If you want to have more math or input, just read the stuff in the theory and mechanic section. I don't know what kind of information you want to have.

4. Tanks are rare at least for heroic 5mans. Players without tank and heal will wait 45m or more on the queue, groups with healers missing a tank up to 15m. But I don't know if you can translate this for your abiltiy to find a guild spot. You don't change your tanks often, because it has the aura of a very responsible position. You want to trust your tank. So most people try to stick with people the know as their tanks. I think it's a matter at what kinds of guilds you are looking for. I never thought it is hard to find any guild to take you. It's more the question if the guilds who would take you are the ones you are looking for.

Tinytankz
01-30-2011, 02:40 AM
Thanks for your time man

1. I meant as in the tank to be at the time. I feel like every tank has advantages and disadvantages with mechanics are warriors being squared out by mechanics or squared in ( think like toc25 HM Anub with a full block tank sort of thing)

2. I like whatever the math says if it is the same math since LK then i will figure it out after i get some gear

3. I get what your saying tyty

4. I have had difficulty finding a good spot as a DPS before. I kinda have the experience that as a tank you kind of have a leadership role and can shape a group but at the same time i dont want to join easymode 25 man guilds when i wanna find a nice ten man HM guild and call it good.

Katzazi
01-30-2011, 05:45 AM
Well I try to answer 1-4 again, I think it works best in this case. :)

1. To be honest I don't have personal experience with all classes. I personally have only tanked beside of paladins (and in one case a warrior). I've healed all classes in 5man heros and DKs in baradin hold.

Anyway, for tanking at least in normal mode raides, I doubt that it count's much what class you are. Good execution is so much more important than ANYthing else in raids, now. Most tank's are near together. Maybe with druids having a hard time, but I think they get some buffs with the next patch.

Sure, there are some encounters where some special abilities are nice to have as the tank. In few cases bubble stuff can be helpfull. In other cases it's a very good thing, if the tank can interrupt. But stuff like this varies from encounter to encounter and raid setup to raid setup. Warriors are quite good at the moment. We do good dmg while tanking, especially if it's multiple mobs. But in most cases the player behind the toon is truly much more important than the class of the toon on MT duty.

Where warriors really shine is OT stuff. Warriors are great at tanking (or kiting) a bunsh of adds and giving them a hard beating while reducing or flattening incoming dmg. And stuff like this. I don't know how good DKs do in this cases. The utility of the warrior is quite good. However this has two sides. As a warrior, you may be loved by your raid because of that, but you have to deal with not beeing the shiny (and boring) MT, but to be the one who does all the other (important) stuff.

So there are no differences for tanks? Sure there are. You easily see differences when you try to heal them. Bad DKs are quite hard to heal. You definitly don't want to do that. Good DKs can do much about this, but they always seem to be a little bit spiky. As I said bears have a harder time, even in some 5man content. Not sure where they are. Block really works for shield tanks. I see more harder to heal paladins than warriors. I think it's easier for them to screw up their gearing and not using the right stuff. But maybe it's harder for them, because much more has changed for them, and paladin tank was quite easy in Wrath than it is now. But if you gear wrong, and don't regularly use all you have, you can be quite hard to heal as a warrior, too. Again: the player counts much more than in Wrath.

2. As I said, beside of block, and def as a stat gone, the rules for the math did not change. Well parry and dodge are on the same DR, but that's only a coefficient, not how you calculate stuff. Block has changed from a flat value to a percentage mitigation, that's a huge change. But it does not change how you calculate stuff.

What has changed is that healer spells were brought much more comparable with everybody having 3 kinds of base spells and the relative values of tank HP, raid HP, boss dmg, healing sizes and healing costs. The math itself has not changed, but the importance of the effects has changed dramatically.

If you would say what kind of math you are interested in, I could probably help you, but I just don't know what you want to read about. Are you only interested in what to do yourseve, or do you want to know the basics of how to calculate for example the relevance of Hold the Line or Impending Victory or stuff like that.

3. k

4. Not every tank does this leader stuff. Many raids are organized by other people than tanks. Sure tanks start the encounter in many cases and are very exponated. This comes with some responsibilites. But you have to be the right person to do the leadership part. Raids are much more about execution. You need to have more than tanks and healers knowing the encounter. More or less everybody has to do it right. Dmg done is not the only thing that counts when you evaluate your DPS players. You have to be able to move, you have to be able to do special stuff at the right moment, you have to be able to use your CDs and you are responsible for dmg reduction and some self healing. That's true for everybody in a raid, at the moment. So it's imortant for every raid spot to cover it with a good player.

At the same time, raid setup often really counts. But it's less like in BC. You seldom try to always stack a special class (maybe with the exceptin of priests as healers for some encounters). You stack stuff that classes can do. And you have to cover special abilities. If nobody can interrupt regularly, you definitly have a problem. You simply don't want a raid with only mages, detro locks, spriests, paladin tanks and healers for example. It will be also hard to have a raid with no ranged. It's good to have either hunter or rogue. You need some CC for the trash. Stuff like this is important.

As a warrior DPS you bring interrupts, mobility and dps. If the raid is in need of stuff like this, you maybe will get a spot. (My raids are short on those, for example.) But if they have covered it, they have no use for a warrior DPS.

As for tanks: Sure, if a group of people does not have a tank, they will be happy to get one. But if a raid already has some tank options, it's hard to convince them to take another one, because it's a role that's totaly covered with trust. (However I think that should be much more true with healers, but anyway.) You have to make a much better personal impression while applying as a tank. Sure if you are good at this, it may be easy. But it's not true to say: tanks are rare so I can enter whatever raid I want to.