View Full Version : Tanking Protection Warrior Tweaking Threat/Stats
01-28-2011, 09:19 AM
I chose to reforge the rep belt instead of going with player made for the extra socket vs the 1% dodge the player made belt would give me.
I'm also looking to up my threat more on raids. I just switched to a single target spec instead of multi target spec. I need to generate more TPS right off the bat.
I'll charge and do a heroic throw to start. I normally use shield slam, revenge, devastate, heroic strike, and toss in a consussion blow from time to time. I use inner rage and shockwave when it's up. I normally save shield bash for situational issues.
01-28-2011, 04:19 PM
Shield bash does not do dmg anymore so is not good for additional threat at all.
Anyway, what's your problem? I never have threat problems sometime into a fight. At least not against the dps and healer. I'm miles away. Well I also have blood and thunder, but I've less incite than you. Well if it's a taunt thing like baradir, it may be hard to beet the other tank after the switch, but that's normal behavior for every tank if the other does not pace down, since the one holding the aggro before has a much higher vengeance stack. So if you regularly are driven by the dps some seconds into the fight, you probably do something wrong.
If it's only the first few seconds, I would not change anything, that's also something happening for many tanks, if the dps starts to burn down all they have too early. However you can taunt the boss if that's happening and there is stuff like misdirect and t&t to cover this time.
The vengeance effect should be even better as harder the content gets. So you should not fear to lose aggro in raids if you don't lose it in heroics.
Well I see you gemming for expertise and not reforging hit and expertise. This has a little effect on your threat, but is a big hit to your survivability. As I said I don't understand how you can have threat problems in appropriate content (sure low dungeons my be a little bit harder because of less vengeance). But I'm runnig with 4 expertise and below 2 hit. (I've even run with 2 expertise) and had no problem.
Normally I would advice to convert as much expertise and hit as you can into mastery, dodge and parry. However you want to have something more threat oriented. So that's probably not the answer you seek.
Anyway, if you want to have some more helpful advice, it's a good idea to elaborate your problems further. Where do you have threat problems? What are you doing to overcome those situations? Or is it just fear that you may not be good enough, eventually?
01-29-2011, 01:12 AM
If it's only the first few seconds, I would not change anything, that's also something happening for many tanks, if the dps starts to burn down all they have too early.
That's normally when I have issues. I'll go to pick up a boss and move him to the appropriate area and I see an agro grab from the dps. I would imagine it would be a problem with everyone but they said the other protection warrior didn't have issues the half a night I missed a raid. This was a different fight where the tanks didn't have to worry about the dps till the raid moved to that portion of the fight though.
I did however have a spec that was more geared towards multiple mobs. This next week of raiding should tell me if my current one helps. With shield bash I normally only use it for when the encounter demands an interrupt.
I thought that Expertise was about 19 that I needed to shoot for but I was close enough - same with hit. I'm about 4% miss which is where most seem to be that I've spoken with in game. My bash missed once during a raid and it wasn't a pretty sight.
01-29-2011, 04:08 AM
About expertise, the soft cap is 26 and you are quite far away from it. I don't know what meaning 19 expertise should have. People at tankspot normaly advice to reforge and gem away from expertise toward mastery, parry and dodge, because there is no need to have the first one while survival (or better mana conservation) is quite important.
Well, I don't know what other tanks you use, but warriors cannot hit the boss while moving him around, most of the time, while others have short ranged attacks. But that should not be anything new for your raid. On the other hand I can only think about Nefarian who has to be positioned quiet fast, but even there you don't have to switch all your dps over, before you are there. For most other bosses it should be ok to either tank them where you meet them, or to land some hits before you start moving them around.
Anyway, it's a little bit harder for raged based tanks to grab the inital threat, because our ability to hit the boss with at least a second hit sometimes depend on our whit hits connecting. Anyway, you can pull most bosses with heroic throw and charge. If you can charge you can use a heavy repercussend SS as an opener. Don't start with applying your debuffs, if you want to ensure your threat. You have SB up, so it should be ok to wait with demo some seconds.
If you lose threat somewhere at the start, just taunt the boss back. Taunt cannot miss anymore. So it does not need either hit nor expertise. Have Vigilance on the other tank, so you should be able to taunt whenever you need. Do you have a rogue or hunter? Tell them to give you a missdirect at the beginning. It's only borrowed threat but you will not need it later on, so it's ok.
Another question: Do you use HS more or less on CD? It's one of our best (or even the best) threat abilities we have. It does much more than devastate, if you have threat problems.
01-29-2011, 04:58 AM
I would imagine it would be a problem with everyone but they said the other protection warrior didn't have issues the half a night I missed a raid.
Every tanking class has this problem because vengeance takes time to ramp up. Class with rage have more issues than classes with different resource systems because we have to build up rage, too. But "wasting" tons of survival rating for the first 20 seconds of a 6+ minutes battle? That's hilarious! Either tell your dps to hold back some seconds longer or think about other ways of generating threat/rage:
- Do druids use thorns? It's a HUGE threat gain.
- MD/tricks on you?
- Mage pulling from range, using mirror images and you taunt off him
- ragepotion prepull for heroic throw+shieldblock+shieldslam if charge isn't an option
I still miss one out of five attacks i can't see any reason to change this. Dps complaining about some seconds of waiting time versus your healer complaining about you taking way to much damage, what's the bigger problem on the long run? I hope you get that :)
01-29-2011, 01:55 PM
Katzazi I must have misread the 26 number - I've had it in my head as 19. If I need to go more for mastery and not worry at all about expertise and hit that's an easy fix. I would like to try out the new spec on my tues-thurs raid before trying that approach.
I was also using HS and not worrying about devastate because of the difference in threat but our Fury Warrior who was their OT for a bit wants me to use it for the sword and board proc - I was just using revenge to proc s&b.
Klausi I'm really not sure what you meant?
your healer complaining about you taking way to much damage Do you mean I should reforge all expertise into mastery?
01-29-2011, 03:03 PM
Yes of course. Mastery or avoidance. Threat is really no issue thanks to vengeance after roughly 20s there shouldn't be anyone around that can take your aggro away, ever.
And you're using hs instead of devastate? What do you hit if other styles are on cooldown or do you use hs over them all? Then that's your real problem.
Keep Shieldslam and Revenge on cooldown, toss in heroic throw,concussion blow and shockwave if they are off cooldown and else use devastate (first global after shieldslam should always be either revenge or devastate due to the option off proccing sword n board). HS is off gcd, use it all the time while swimming in rage (<50) and only then. On a regular tank and spank fight devastate equals to roughly 15% off my damage, only being topped from hs and shield slam.
01-29-2011, 03:11 PM
I posted my rotation up top. I'm using just about everything you can think of to use. I would never use hs over rev or ss. I use those then work in hs. My problem is mainly just those first few seconds of the fight the snap agro. I don't want to throw in to many changes at once so I'll do a week with this spec and then start changing the expertise into mastery to make sure what change I've done is working or not. Thanks for all the tips :)
01-29-2011, 05:09 PM
Currently i have 0% hit and 5 expertise and threat is just fine. Expecting to need a little more next tier maybe but atm vengeance solves all threat issues My armory (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/wildhammer/bigbadorugly/advanced)
I like to use recklessness on the pull, makes heroic throw and the first shield slam+hs crit while you get only 1 swing from the boss with extra damage. Also hunter md, rogue tricks should give you enough time to stack up vengeance.
Proper rotation is more important then a small amount of extra hit or expertise. Shieldslam>revenge>devastate while using HS almost all the time unless really low on rage. First 2 gcd after shieldslam you want to use revenge, devastate to proc SnB don't miss any procs. Thrid gcd after shieldslam you can weave in shockwave,rend, demoshout,thunderclap. Keep shieldblock on cd :)
01-29-2011, 06:44 PM
You're stance dancing for a pull? Recklessness is only in bers?
01-29-2011, 06:46 PM
Well, I don't do it, but I don't see a problem there, because it's about the next 3 hits at the moment. (Will be changed by the next patch.)
In classic one had to stance dance for every pull where charge was used.
01-31-2011, 09:34 AM
You're stance dancing for a pull? Recklessness is only in bers?
Recklessness only requires beserk for the cast not the buff. You can cast and dance still and the buff stays active. This is now the same for all 3 warrior cooldowns.
02-03-2011, 09:20 AM
Threat has been looking fine the last week that I've been watching it like a hawk. We finally did something last night I'm used to seeing every week. The only issue I saw was that when Arcanotron popped out we had a dps in the power generator that snagged agro at the start.
I snagged a different belt and helm last night. My hit points are half a k lower but mastery and mitigation are boosted. I hope that was the right choice. I think next I'll start just forging out all expertise/hit that I can.