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Eirohir
01-24-2011, 06:55 AM
I've been looking for detailed info on prot paladin avoidance numbers, as i find the topic really confusing.

Some guides that i read say : 102.4 avoidance would cap off, but isnt that a little outdated ? or is it?

Basicly before i blow my head off, i'd like to know, how much is enough, and how much is too much (before diminishing returns)

If i had baseline numbers, reforging, gemming, and enchanting wouldnt be so bloody confusing to me.

I'm sure ill get a few lol's but i really cant figure out where to start, and what my goals should be for each stat.

To be clear, we're talking entry level raids in cata, nothing fancy like hardmode / hc's

If I could bother someone long enough to answer a few (simple) questions, id be very grateful.

Dodge : ??% <- 10-12% ish?
Parry : ??% <- 10 -12% ish?
Block : ??% <-45-50% ish?
Mastery : ??% <- as much as i cant get?

As i understand it, avoidance is the sum of all these percentages minus miss chance %

or do i have it all backward?

Would love some advise on this, any help would be well received.

Fetzie
01-24-2011, 07:15 AM
your avoidance chance is your parry chance + dodge chance + 5% miss. So if you have 12% dodge and parry you have 29% total avoidance against a level 85 enemy.

To work out the chance for an enemy to hit you instead of being avoided or blocked, you simply add your block chance to this number. Assuming our tank has 51% block, he will have an 80% chance to block, parry, miss or dodge and a level 85 enemy only has a 20% chance to hit him normally.

When you are being attacked by a higher level enemy they can disregard some of your defensive stats. A level+1 enemy ignores 0.2% of each stat per level, so a total of 0.8% pdmb (parry + dodge + miss + block) per level difference. this means that you need a total of 100+2.4 = 102.4% pdmb to no longer take direct hits from a boss level (level+3) enemy. Do not try to reach this, you won't manage until you are in at least T12 gear.

My unbuffed stats in mostly 359 gear are
12.29% dodge
13.39% parry
51.59% block

So if I am not buffed and fighting a boss (it has happened before :/ ) I have (102.4-(12.29+13.39+51.59+5))=20.13% chance for the boss to hit me with an unblocked swing.

Does this help?

Eirohir
01-24-2011, 08:04 AM
This is indeed a great insight into the avoidance stats, and i am grateful to you for taking the time to reply, i have but one more question, and its complicated (in my eyes )

Regarding Diminishing Returns,

I understand that attacking the same creature (gardless of level ) with eventually start diminishing returns.

So my question is this. Q: When does DR start to become an issue, and how is it best countered, (Assume ) Rotation 363, single target MT.

I realise my questions may sound (dumb) or words to that effect, but if im going to tank (which i really dont like atm, cuz of my lack of knowledge in the area) i will need some further info.

Thanks for your reply, really solid and to the point info, very grateful

Fetzie
01-24-2011, 08:16 AM
Ok diminishing returns don't work like that :)

Back in the days of black temple and sunwell, certain classes (druids and rogues) could stack enough dodge rating and agility to avoid every single swing a boss made. Obviously this was not how the devs intended the tanking game to be played and they slapped a 20% dodge malus on players in Sunwell.

In patch 3.0 they introduced a diminishing return (DR) on avoidance stats and avoidance gained from agility. This means that every new point of a stat had a diminished return on it, in layman's terms each new point of rating gave you slightly less avoidance than the previous point. towards the end of WotLK tanks began to get "too much" avoidance for the bosses, which basically meant that the bosses had to hit REALLY hard to endanger the tank as they avoided up to 3 hits in 4, leading up to Festergut swinging for values to wrong side of 40k and the Lich King(25hc) swinging for 50-55k on a tank with 60-65k max life.

enough of the history lesson. Diminishing Returns (as far as I know) only affect the amount of avoidance percentage YOU gain from each new point of avoidance rating. Attacking a boss for a prolonged amount of time does not affect your hit chance (unless a piece of equipment breaks due to having 0 durability left, but that shouldn't really happen).

Dedic
01-24-2011, 08:37 AM
I have a question.

Which number do people report for avoidance? Do we use the number listed or the number in the tooltip? Cuz I have like 12% for the main number but 8% or so in the tooltip (says "after diminishing returns").

Eirohir
01-24-2011, 08:41 AM
Fantastic !

Just what i didnt know, im glad i came here for some answers, nost of the other sites are full of tollers, and people who take the thread of topic, i found all my answers here in about 2hrs, vs 100's of other site with less than average sucess, and as you can tell less than accurate info.

just one last question

Where do i send the cheque :D

i got 20 bucks with your name on it :)

Ty for the help, cheerios

EDIT: :S just went to reforge my gear, to stack as much avoidance as possible, ilvl 349 ish, i now have to choose between -90 dodge / expertise and +90 mastery // parry.

Thoughts?

Fetzie
01-24-2011, 08:45 AM
how much is 20 dollars in euros? :)

Eirohir
01-24-2011, 09:02 AM
20 U.S. dollars = 14.7383935 Euros

but ill make it an even 15E

Katzazi
01-24-2011, 09:08 AM
That changes every day.

But to stay OT:
@Dedic: It's the value shon on the character sheet. The other number is only the conversion form the ratinigs to the percentage. After that the game would apply the according deminishing returns and add the result to your base avoidance. That's your actual avoidance and the one you can see on your sheet.

Fetzie
01-24-2011, 02:13 PM
EDIT: :S just went to reforge my gear, to stack as much avoidance as possible, ilvl 349 ish, i now have to choose between -90 dodge / expertise and +90 mastery // parry.

- expertise
+ parry

Eirohir
02-10-2011, 02:31 AM
Ok turns out im dumber than i look

Having trouble with diminishing returns.

Dodge- 12.85
Parry- 14.85
Block- 38.46
miss- 05.00
total
71.16/ 31.24- unmissable.

So here's the question, lol...

Is each avoidance stat singlarly effected by DM, is stacking too much of one going to lower my total avoidance, OR is it all lumped together and 102.4 minus avoidance the way to go.

or

Do i simply stack dodge and parry to 15 each, and throw in tons of mastery?

The reason i ask is cuz, when im reforging, i get options like dodge / parry to mastery .
and i want to know if i must reforge one of the two, should it always be the higher stat? or does it make a difference?

-55 parry / dodge to + 55 mastery. does the avoidance even change??

Very confused.

Katzazi
02-10-2011, 08:40 AM
Miss is a fixed value and will not see any diminisching returns.

Block does not get any diminishing returns and should be maxed out as far as possible because of that. (Ok, there are other reasons, too, but it's one reason.)

Dodge and Parry are getting the same diminishing returns for the same ratings. But they start at different percentages. But even with high diminishing returns, every added rating will give you some more percentage for the chosen value.

However if you have 300 dodge rating and 3000 parry rating, 500 additional rating to dodge will give you a big boost to your dodge percentage while it will do much less if added to your parry percentage. So if you are speaking about reforging existing ratigns and not adding new ratings, you will get a bigger sum of all percentages, if you reforge the dodge/parry with the higher percentage towards mastery or the other one.

You should always look at them buffed. With kings and battle shout/strength of earth totem/horn of winter, because they give additional strength and agility which also add some ratings.



Tip: Use a character planner or (even better) rawr to see the effects of possible reforgings. You spend less gold by trying out different combinations "on paper" instead of doing them ingame.

sifuedition
02-10-2011, 09:31 AM
It works something like this (made up numbers to demonstrate)

Assuming 0 stats to start:
+100 dodge rating (not %, the actual amount on a piece of gear) you get 1% dodge.
+100 more dodge rating you get another 0.95% dodge (this 100 rating gave you less than the first 100 rating did - diminished) 1.95% dodge
+100 more rating you get another 0.85% dodge (diminishing returns is getting steeper the more you add) 2.8% dodge

Even though 100 rating gave you 1% dodge, 300 rating does not give 3% dodge - it gets diminished as you add more

Mastery does not have diminishing returns and that is one of the primary reasons it is considered the best stat to stack. Stamina does not diminish either.

Once you pass the 13% (roughly) mark for dodge or parry, the ratings - actual % starts taking a steeper diminished return. If you had 15% dodge and 10% parry that's 25% avoidance. Reforging some of your dodge to parry would likely end you up at 13% dodge and 13% parry for a total of 26%. This is because parry is not being diminished as much as the dodge was.

Eirohir
02-10-2011, 08:10 PM
So if im reading this right (unlikely)

Keeping dodge / parry around 1% of each other i.e. 13.23 / 13.94 (27.17) respectively, will grant greater avoidance, than 13% / 15% (28.00) respectively.

So on my stats listed above, i can take some parry away, add dodge, and have greater avoidance than it is now.
and shove everything else into mastery / threat (Hit,exp,haste,crit) to build a solid respectable tank?

while im here i might as well as now too, whats the highest threat generator barring str, (reforging to W/X/Y/Z) in threat gains?

I know you guys dont get paid for this stuff, but its my first tank and i dont want to mess it up or indeed a raid, for silly mistakes.

Heres what i've done so far, thanks to all the advice i've gotten, how am i doing?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/tarren-mill/missreaper/simple

sifuedition
02-11-2011, 05:28 AM
So, you are reading it just about correct.

Lets say you have 2500 worth of rating points if you add all your dodge and parry on all your gear. If that is all in one stat, the diminishing returns we talked about earlier will greatly reduce the % you get from those rating points. The more balanced you keep it, the less points you lose overall to the diminishing effect. Balance based on those %'s. So don't go adding up all your rating and making sure the rating points are equal. Just do the balancing based on the dodge % and parry % on your character sheet.

As to threat, expertise is your highest threat stat. Hit is next. Expertise to 26 would be the first threat stat to cap. Then expertise and hit are more equal until hit cap at 8% and parry cap at 52 expertise.

You do NOT need threat stats now. If you must not miss an interrupt, you might work on hit cap for that fight and that fight alone. Vengence is ensuring that tanks have enough threat without having to get the threat stats. If you lose threat right now, it is not due to low hit/exp.

theodisius
02-11-2011, 05:37 AM
I read that it is optimal to keep parry about 1% more than dodge.

To the OP: looking at your gear, you sometimes reforged to avoidance when you could have reforged to mastery. Mastery is better for both melee damage reduction and combat table coverage (i.e. making you unhittable).

desolatedays
02-13-2011, 10:21 PM
@sifuedition Mostly correct aside from the fact that due to the conversion rate, the 2nd 100 dodge rating would equal about 0.94 and the 3rd would thus equal around 0.84. Current dodge conversion rate is 171.719 and 1 / 171.719 ~ 0.0566.
@eirohir Yes 102.4% would be correct for an 85 fighting a level 88 raid boss. Considering raid bosses have 0.2% extra chance to hit per level difference for each part of avoidance, than (0.2% * 3) + (0.2 * 3) + (0.2 * 3) + (0.2 * 3) (which is 0.2% per level times 3 levels, for all 4 avoidance stats.) = 2.4%. So 100% + 2.4% = 102.4%, the unhittable minimum for raid bosses.
Hope this cleared some things up for you guys! =]

Loganisis
02-13-2011, 11:56 PM
I read that it is optimal to keep parry about 1% more than dodge.

I don't know if this is true for Pallys. If they have an ability like Hold the Line for Warriors, it would be true. Otherwise, if there's no ability that causes a 'nice effect' on parry versus on dodge, then they would be equal. And I don't see one looking through the talent calculator.

For warriors it's ~2 or 3%. It varries according to the top theorycrafters (Koji has posted extensively on this in the past).

Lumines
02-14-2011, 04:51 AM
It's because you get more Dodge from raid buffs than you get Parry.

Katzazi
02-14-2011, 05:13 AM
How come? As far as I know there is no raid buff that gives you dodge (beside of dodge food, but there's also parry and mastery food available). Battle Shout / Earthstrength totem / Horn of Winter give you a strength and agility increase at the same amount. Since the conversion rate from strength/agility to ratings is equal those buffs don't favore dodge over parry or wise versa. Then there is kings/MotW. It adds more strength and agility and such parry and dodge, but the value depends on the strenght and agility you already have. You should have a lot more strength then agility on your gear. So kings will give you more strength than agility. Strenght is converted to parry rating, agility is converted to dodge rating (again at the same conversion rate). You get more strength than agility, so you get more parry rating than dodge rating.

sifuedition
02-14-2011, 05:14 AM
@sifuedition Mostly correct aside from the fact that due to the conversion rate, the 2nd 100 dodge rating would equal about 0.94 and the 3rd would thus equal around 0.84. Current dodge conversion rate is 171.719 and 1 / 171.719 ~ 0.0566.


Wow! For a totaly made up example, I can't believe I was so close, lol.

Eirohir
02-14-2011, 05:51 AM
MotW does provide a small agi buff, but nothing to get excited about, reading alot on this dodge/ parry thing and the general consences is to stack dodge over parry/hit/exp.

This just levels out the ratings a litttle and reduces diminishing returns to its minimum potential, as for why blizz hates buffing dodge? i dont really know.

I have noticed, personal experience, that forsaking all other stats for avoidance is a bad move, threat is ridiculasly low without 16/16 exp (26/26) glyphed. and at least 6-8% hit,

Finding the balance between avoidance and threat seems to be the key factor, and i feel alot more comfortable tanking now, using this page as a guide, and hitting the avoidance capp is still a goal, atm however healers will need to heal me at least 22% of the time until i get the gear needed to meet both avoidance and threat caps.

Happy to report, very succesful tanking now, and really comfortable threat, I think this paladin is ready for the big leagues :)

Just wanted to pop in and say thank you all very much for you comments and support, I'll be recommend this page, and this site to any paladins who want to tank for the first time.

Thanks alot.

sifuedition
02-14-2011, 06:14 AM
Glad to hear things are going so well for you.

Just a note however, if you need that much hit/exp to hold threat, you are still doing something wrong...or I should say not optimally.

I currently have about 2% hit and something like 5 expertise (plus 10 from the glyph) and I never lose threat unless it's the first ten seconds and something missed while dps are blowing CDs but that's what taunt is for.

Loganisis
02-14-2011, 08:21 AM
MotW does provide a small agi buff, but nothing to get excited about, reading alot on this dodge/ parry thing and the general consences is to stack dodge over parry/hit/exp.

This just levels out the ratings a litttle and reduces diminishing returns to its minimum potential, as for why blizz hates buffing dodge? i dont really know.

I have noticed, personal experience, that forsaking all other stats for avoidance is a bad move, threat is ridiculasly low without 16/16 exp (26/26) glyphed. and at least 6-8% hit,

Finding the balance between avoidance and threat seems to be the key factor, and i feel alot more comfortable tanking now, using this page as a guide, and hitting the avoidance capp is still a goal, atm however healers will need to heal me at least 22% of the time until i get the gear needed to meet both avoidance and threat caps.

Happy to report, very succesful tanking now, and really comfortable threat, I think this paladin is ready for the big leagues :)

Just wanted to pop in and say thank you all very much for you comments and support, I'll be recommend this page, and this site to any paladins who want to tank for the first time.

Thanks alot.

I still don't understand why dodge>parry when the diminishing returns are the same and as was shown, not much difference in buffs... They nerfed the pally returns from agility when cata first dropped, so I don't think Pallys get any more dodge/agi than warriors now (the closest comparison as they're both shield wearers).

And I'm going to have to agree with sifu... Threat is fine unless you're outgeared by your DPS after the first 10-20 seconds of the fight. If DPS opens up with CDs, they're going to pull off with no problems, but once vengence gets stacked, if you're using a good rotation, you'll be doubling up the DPS in threat on most fights by the end of the first minute.

Eirohir
02-14-2011, 08:31 AM
Well im currently sitting on 80.11 avoidance, and 13/13 exp, with 6.11% hit, my threat now goes through the roof, 100k above any second, and i must say i prefere the added threat, tanking comfortably again and its a really joy i have to admit.

I sure could lose some exp/hit, but thats where i was before, and 250k threat being around my max, where as now im in 500k range and no one could ever get agro, which is what i like as a tank, i guess.

the extra 3% avoidance would be more optimal as you put it, but that 3% stacked into threat means i dont have to worry about threat tables or hand of salvation anymore, and focus on the task at hand, either kiting or MT on a boss, its always comfortable.

If you think my rotation may be flawed, id welcome any tips you might want to share

Currently:
1:Avengers Shield (on the pull) for instant high(ish) threat.
2:Hammer of the rightious (Cs - single target) added agro.
3:Holy Wrath - more threat.
4:AV or CS (Hotr)
5:Consentration, more is better than less.
6:Repeat, on first come first served basis.
7:Judging every opertunity between main spells /casts.

If there is a better / more efficitive way to gain alot of threat very quickly, id like to try it, many guides on the subject say stick to 3-9-3 with fillers, but honestly, not knowing when something is going to proc, except for your 3-9-3 abilitys is sorta stating the obvious.

In my book, get threat fast, get lots of it, and its easier to hold, than to build from zero, cuz forcing me to taunt makes less threat than keeping the rotation steady and consistant.

But as i already admitted, im new to tanking, and on paladins, it just seems easier with more threat and "slightly" less avoidance. as a balance thing.

102.4 is not in my range to even worry about yet, but for the moment at least, im not taking huge damage and the healers dont need to run away from me anymore lol.

Im really enjoying the gaming, and especially the tanking, so anything to critic would be met with a broad smile, and an open heart.

Contravene
02-16-2011, 02:02 PM
Someone popped in a macro for calculating your avoidance on the Prot Field Manual page... This isn't verified to be correct yet but it sure pops out a fat avoidance number for me =}

/run local b,d,p=GetBlockChance(),GetDodgeChance(),GetParryCh ance()ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format( "Mitigation Cap(102.4): %.2f%% Avoidance: %.2f%%",b+d+p+5,d+p+5))

We all know the thread
http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t110338-cataclysm_tanking_protection_field_manual_updated_ feb_9_2011_4_0_6_a/p12/

sifuedition
02-16-2011, 03:51 PM
The "rotation" should be:

1. CS/Hammer of the Righteous - these are interchangable based on single-target/multi-target
2. X
3. CS
4. X
5. CS
6. You are now at three holy power (unless you missed on 1-3-5 in which case just get another on the next chance). Assess the situation. Need a heal? Word of Glory. Need threat on multiple targets? Inquisition. Need threat on single target? Shield of the Righteous.

Then repeat. The X is whatever is off cd and most useful. Mana is 75% or below? Judgement. Multiple targets still building threat? Holy Wrath. Grand Crusader proc? Avengers Shield.

Using this, threat is never an issue for me. Almost all my three holy power use is WoG on me or a party member. I almost never use Consecration either. If I am at an X in the rotation and everything is on cd and my mana is good, I'll drop it. Otherwise, I don't. I think it is easier for me to get away with this because after the first few GCD's, I check threat and it is usually fine so I start tab targeting all the mobs in the pull to share the love even better. If I start to have to fight for threat at all, I just pop Avenging Wrath and all is good. This rarely happens so it has always been available for me when I need it.

Of course, the pull itself is "outside" the rotation. Like most, I will usually pull with an AS. If there is time, I may also judge a mob while they run to me. For single target, I like to pull with Exorcism, taunt in the cast latency and AS immediately. This packs a nice threat punch for the pull and one is almost guaranteed to hit avoiding that insta-loss to a dps who starts early.

Quinafoi
02-16-2011, 05:39 PM
Strenght is converted to parry rating, agility is converted to dodge rating (again at the same conversion rate). You get more strength than agility, so you get more parry rating than dodge rating.

Close, but one very clear mistake.

Agility and Dodge Rating are converted to Dodge (dodge has both factors, other than the constants). Agility is never actually converted to Dodge Rating in the calculation.

Quinafoi
02-16-2011, 05:47 PM
Someone popped in a macro for calculating your avoidance on the Prot Field Manual page... This isn't verified to be correct yet but it sure pops out a fat avoidance number for me =}

/run local b,d,p=GetBlockChance(),GetDodgeChance(),GetParryCh ance()ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format( "Mitigation Cap(102.4): %.2f%% Avoidance: %.2f%%",b+d+p+5,d+p+5))

We all know the thread
http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t110338-cataclysm_tanking_protection_field_manual_updated_ feb_9_2011_4_0_6_a/p12/

There is a rather long discussion with several macro variations over in this topic:
http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?72926-Cata-4.X-quot-Unhittable-quot-Macro

Katzazi
02-16-2011, 05:59 PM
Well you seem to be right. But Buffs give you more parry than dodge, anyway at least for the values we can attain at the moment. You just have so much more strength than agiligy. Anyway - you should balance your dodge and parry raitings while buffed. It's easy enough to do, especially since you already provide one of them. (An even better way is to do it with a character planer like chardef or something like rawr where you can actually see the different effects.)

Fetzie
02-16-2011, 06:37 PM
While you will have more strength than agility, you get more % dodge from Kings + Horn of winter than you do % parry because strength only gives you 0.25 parry rating per strength while you can count about 60% of the agility as dodge rating as a paladin (it isn't dodge rating but that is about the equivalence). I have around 1% higher chance to parry than dodge when unbuffed, raidbuffed I only have 0.25% higher chance to parry than dodge.

srinivasan
02-18-2011, 03:21 AM
So if im reading this right (unlikely)

Keeping dodge / parry around 1% of each other i.e. 13.23 / 13.94 (27.17) respectively, will grant greater avoidance, than 13% / 15% (28.00) respectively.

So on my stats listed above, i can take some parry away, add dodge, and have greater avoidance than it is now.
and shove everything else into mastery / threat (Hit,exp,haste,crit) to build a solid respectable tank?

while im here i might as well as now too, whats the highest threat generator barring str, (reforging to W/X/Y/Z) in threat gains?

I know you guys dont get paid for this stuff, but its my first tank and i dont want to mess it up or indeed a raid, for silly mistakes.

Heres what i've done so far, thanks to all the advice i've gotten, how am i doing?

bellows in chennai (http://www.sssenggworks.in/) | bellows manufacturers in chennai
(http://www.sssenggworks.in/)

sifuedition
02-18-2011, 04:46 AM
The avoidance on your character sheet can be added. More is more.

13% parry + 20% dodge + 50% block = 83%
13% parry + 14% dodge + 50% block = 77%

Example 1 is more avoidance. However, to get dodge so high, you would have to pump an extreme amount of ratings I to dodge. Those points would yield a higher % of parry if you reforged them. Remember, the higher you go, the more ratings points you need to add 1% more of that stat. That is diminishing returns.

Your best threat stat is expertise. Once expertise is at 26, hit gets closer as far as threat. Expetise hard caps at 52. Hit hard caps at 8%.

Do not worry about hit or expertise yet. In later tiers, they may become important again, but for now, if you can't hold threat, those are NOT the problem. Vengence is helping tank threat too much to need those.

Fetzie
02-18-2011, 03:51 PM
expertise hard cap is 56 :) Still don't need to go for it though

Kristina
02-20-2011, 04:11 PM
ok all this info helped a lot but i have one question thats kinda off topic....whats a good amount of health to have to start heroics and how much do i want to have to start raiding.

Doc309
02-21-2011, 03:00 AM
as i understand it. the %s on the character sheet after after DR.
the ratings ie points/% are different, but 1% of dodge is equal to the 1% parry ( -the mana return from sanctuary)
but if you have more dodge, a piece with 100 parry RATING, is worth more that 100 dodge RATING.

as to threat the best threat stat is getting your rotation down :)

and the amount of health to have before starting heroics or raids ... is well enough to survive :) a lot depends on everything else, not just you.

Fetzie
02-21-2011, 03:59 AM
I think I had 115-120k when I started 5man heroic tanking and about 140k when I started raid tanking.

Drizzitd
02-23-2011, 08:05 PM
awesome and acurate explination!

galefrae
09-11-2011, 09:04 AM
Looking for some advice on my numbers, and what i need to change.

Here is a link to my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/uther/Galefrae/simple

I do not have access to raiding at the moment. Any help would be appreciated.

Fetzie
09-11-2011, 09:17 AM
You are missing the enchant on the shoulders. You will need to quest through Deepholm to unlock it. You also have the wrong leg enchant (145 stamina and 55 dodge rating)

You have some dps items which could be changed to tanking items (shoulders, ring).

The boots from Dragonmaw reputation are better than the molten front boots, despite having a lower item level.

Get the trinkets from tol'barad (Mirror of Broken Images) and molten front.

Talents: I would take 1 point from Rule of Law and put it in divine guardian. I would also personally take the points out of Hallowed Ground and put them in Pursuit of Justice.

Glyphs: Dazing Shield is useful for kiting stuff, otherwise it just makes mobs take longer to get to you, giving the dps more time to pull them off you before you have a chance to tank them. Lay on Hands (Major) is very useful, I would swap that for the Divine Plea Major)

galefrae
09-11-2011, 09:40 AM
Enchant: I will be changing this out when I get the 800g to buy it

Gear: Shoulders...Well I got the shoulder this morning, because they were a clear upgrade to the ones I had before.

REP rewards: this is going to take awhile because I just ran through here until I leveled enough to go to the next zone. *sigh

What do you think of my total avoidance? Thanks again.

Fetzie
09-12-2011, 03:00 AM
Your "numbers" are fine really, you just need to get more of them now.

Totally off-topic, but your character has an awesome name, you watch Doctor Who much? :)

galefrae
09-12-2011, 07:00 AM
Your "numbers" are fine really, you just need to get more of them now.

Totally off-topic, but your character has an awesome name, you watch Doctor Who much? :)

Thanks