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Aliena
01-23-2011, 03:47 PM
rvMCEkflaak


Hello, and welcome to Tankspot's Heroic Cataclysm Raid Guide. My name is Papapaint, and in this video, I will be discussing the strategy for Hard Mode Chimaeron in the Blackwing descent raid instance. This guide will assume you are familiar with normal mode, and deal exclusively with the changes present in the hard mode encounter.

From a healing perspective, the fight is relatively unchanged. You still only need to heal people to over 10k, but tank healing and fued-phase healing are slightly more intense. This fight boils down to Tank coordination and DPS control.


The first item of note is the unchanged enrage timer; it is still 7 minutes, but chimaeron's health has been increased to 126 million. This, combined with what is essentially a three-tank requirement, means you need to maximize your damage where you can. We ran with 7 healers to cover the intense fued phase healing, and used two tanks. Because of the mechanic preventing any player from being one-shot as long as they are over 10k, we opted to have a DPS DK tank as long as Finkle's mixture was up. The other tanks tanked him during fued phase and soaked double attacks during Finkle's Mixture. This increased our DPS output with no change in healing requirements.


The next change from normal mode concerns "Fued" phase. After Chimaeron casts fued, Papa Nefarian will tell his little hydra child's heads to quit bickering. Chimaeron will Fued for only two seconds, then revert back to meleeing his primary aggro target and continue to stack break. To handle this, you'll want a tank with no stacks of break to pick him up. Your raid will still go without Finkle's mixture until the next Massacre, so you need to have your raid stack up to soak the poison vomit just like on normal mode. Your tank should stand away from the raid to prevent the vomit from hitting him as well. Chimaeron will double attack once during this phase, and a tank with a single stack of break can rotate cooldowns to survive it.


Please note that your tank needs to be topped up in the two second window following the massacre that knocks bile-o-tron offline. We rotated Guardian Spirit and Lay on Hands to ensure he wouldn't be gibbed by a quick melee.


The reason for having three tanks--even if one of them is actually just a melee DPS--is on the likely chance that Chimaeron will knock Bile-o-Tron offline two massacres in a row. If this happens, the last Fued tank will still have stacks of break, and will definitely die upon application of the third stack OR from double attack--chimaeron hits hard to begin with, and him hitting 50-75% harder will ruin your day. With three tanks, you can rotate between two tanks on Fued phases to ensure that you're always using a tank with zero break stacks.


The final change occurs in phase 3. Nefarian will cast a shadow DoT spell on your whole raid called "Mocking Shadow," which deals one to two thousand damage per second to your entire raid. While you are still unable to heal players, you can mitigate the DoT with Power Word: Barrier, Raid Wall, Aura Mastery, and other personal cooldowns. Because of this, it's best to enter the final phase with your whole raid topped off. Chimaeron will not apply the healing debuff until riiiiight around 22%, so we chose to bring him down to 24%, waited for massacre, stacked up, topped the raid off, and pushed him into the final phase. As in normal mode, hike up your britches, pop cooldowns, and go to town.


Thanks for watching this guide. As usual, feel free to leave comments either on youtube or the official strategy thread on tankspot.com (http://tankspot.com/). You can also subscribe to this channel for access future raid guides. I have included the last half of this fight with some commentary to demonstrate how we handled the encounter.

wsicks
01-23-2011, 04:19 PM
Is that how you always talk or are you attempting the announcer voice on purpose?

Papapaint
01-23-2011, 04:23 PM
Is that how you always talk or are you attempting the announcer voice on purpose?

That is my normal voice.

Pug
01-24-2011, 03:57 AM
Good guide, awesome voice :P

swills
01-24-2011, 04:18 AM
Good guide. Normally I wouldn't be a spelling Nazi, but you got this wrong so many times it's silly; it's "Feud" not "Fued".

n0point
01-24-2011, 08:12 AM
One thing you can do for last phase to let your dps stay alive a little longer: as you are going close to 30-40%, have your holy palas taunt the boss with a tank immediately ready to taunt back. Even if they do get a hit from the boss, they will still survive it due to the debuff.

If you get this right then after nom-noming the tanks in p3 the boss will go for your holy palas and not dpsers, since they will be highest on threat behind tanks. Saves you a couple of seconds of alive dpsers going on the boss while he is finishing the pink spots in your grid.
Time this properly though to avoid the risk of chaustic slimes finishing of the holies, try to do it as soon as they have 10k after a massacre, since he doesn't slime for 10-15 seconds after each, you should have enough time to heal up to 10 k again.

Illidra
01-24-2011, 08:15 AM
papaint, your voice is FUCKING AWESOME

Papapaint
01-24-2011, 10:42 AM
Good guide. Normally I wouldn't be a spelling Nazi, but you got this wrong so many times it's silly; it's "Feud" not "Fued".

I'm only 375 Spelling.

Pers3us
01-24-2011, 04:28 PM
I'm only 375 Spelling.

376 now. You skilled up from this correction.

Snitsky
01-31-2011, 08:59 AM
Papapaint or anyone else,

Has anyone done this on ten? I'm wondering if the DPS offtank is still recommended...from a survivability standpoint I'd assume so, but it proportional to the amount of dps you can bring it seems like it'd make it much rougher.

klausi
01-31-2011, 09:17 AM
You still need dps "maintank" but now want to bring two regulary offtanks to swap during for feud phases/double attack duty. There are also very few parses of two-tanking the boss but it requires certain classes/speccs.

Snitsky
01-31-2011, 02:21 PM
Sorry, "offtank" was a bad phrase, but yeah, to main tank. Thanks for the clarification though regarding using it on 10 man.

Stompyomouf
01-31-2011, 07:24 PM
The strat we use in normal is that we have two tanks, 1 takes every stack of break, and the other takes every double attack. Works very well.

Just to make sure Im seeing this right, what you're saying in this is to have three tanks. 1, 2, and 3. Tank 1 starts and takes every stack of break, tank 2 takes every double attack. Feud comes, and tank 3 starts to take every break, and tank 2 still takes every double attack. Back and forth like that seems pretty easy. Soon as break has dropped from tank 1 (probably after the feud ends) he taunts for break stacks while tank 3 drops his stacks.
In a case where feud happens two massacres in a row, then tank 2 who has 0 stacks of break starts stacking those while hopefully the one that has been sitting out of tanking for a while is now clear of stacks of break and takes the double attack.

That seems easy to me so I guess I'm missing something. What is it?

Kerbaroth
02-11-2011, 01:36 PM
Short question: we are @ chimaeron 10hc right now and for some reason we wipe after the first feud, because bile-o-tron stays inactive for the next massacre??

are we doing something wrong or is it just buggy?

shaak
02-17-2011, 02:21 AM
How many feud phases do you normally go through?
It's difficult to tell by the video but it seems like 3.

Don83
02-20-2011, 03:03 PM
Does anyone know how to handle chimaeron hc 10man, if you dont have a third tank or feral druid?
We already have like 30 tries and only brought him down to 17% once.
Our setup is:
Warri (Tank/DD)
Pala(Tank/Heal)
Pala(heal)
Shaman(ele/heal)
druid(balance/heal)
Enhancer
Priest(holy/disci)
Priest(shadow)
Mage(fire)
Warlock(demo/destro)

Our strategy:
Pala tank begins until first feud. Then warri tank takes 2 double attacks during feud with CDs. Then first problematic situation. Warri tanks the third double attack as well, and this is very luck dependant.
We thought about taunting with the pala heal aswell, but the double attacks deal too much damage for him.
But still usually we can manage this taunt with only2 tanks.
Then warri tanks until second feud.
Then pala takes over... and then usually the fight is over after the paladin has no more CDs and the warrior has still stacks.
Right now i am clueless whether there is a solution or whether chimaeron hc is pretty much undoable without a feral or a third tank.
Any ideas or clues?

FBMWhite
02-23-2011, 12:06 AM
Have your ENH Shaman MT Chim, if he goes with rockbiter it can be used as a taunt.

kitmckatt
02-23-2011, 07:39 AM
Can you confirm that he goes into phase 2 at 22%?

On 10man normal he waits until 20%.

This 2% discrepancy will be crucial in timing the p2 shortly after a feud starts.

Garbid
02-23-2011, 11:05 PM
Is it possible to have a warrior tank intervene on a dps tank for the double attacks so he always soaks the first attack ?

FBMWhite
02-24-2011, 01:09 PM
Is it possible to have a warrior tank intervene on a dps tank for the double attacks so he always soaks the first attack ?

Probably, but if the War tank has any stacks of breaks he is going to explode if you're trying this during a feud.

Papapaint
02-24-2011, 01:41 PM
Can you confirm that he goes into phase 2 at 22%?

On 10man normal he waits until 20%.

This 2% discrepancy will be crucial in timing the p2 shortly after a feud starts.

I can confirm that it is dependant on server-side updates and therefore can occur between 22-20%, most frequently between 21.3 and 21.5%

Daimon
03-02-2011, 10:07 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't break reduces the OUTGOING healing and not the incoming? wasn't this mechanic introduced so DK tanks don't faceroll the fight?

klausi
03-02-2011, 10:51 AM
I can confirm that it is dependant on server-side updates and therefore can occur between 22-20%, most frequently between 21.3 and 21.5%
Phase 2 always starts at 20.0% for us now after the recent hotfix/patch.

@Daimon
Break only reduces outgoing heal, yes. But damage taken is increased as well so you really want to switch tanks for those feud phases without the robot up :)

Kinch
03-02-2011, 11:12 AM
doesn't break reduces the OUTGOING healing and not the incoming?

That's correct.

Zellviren
03-07-2011, 05:53 AM
Great; another T11 encounter providing a RL enrage due to the stupid impact of RNG. We're doing it on 10 man and finding that you need at least two Massacre casts between a Feud phase, else you run a very serious risk of losing one of your tanks (using a Frost death knight as a "tank") throughout it.

The solution?

Take a paladin.

Bring the Player, not the Class.

Yeah, right.

Papapaint
03-07-2011, 06:25 AM
Great; another T11 encounter providing a RL enrage due to the stupid impact of RNG. We're doing it on 10 man and finding that you need at least two Massacre casts between a Feud phase, else you run a very serious risk of losing one of your tanks (using a Frost death knight as a "tank") throughout it.

I'm not sure I follow. Break stacks last 60 seconds. Even if he only casts one massacre between each fued, the stacks will still drop off whichever tank.

Zellviren
03-07-2011, 08:01 AM
I'm not sure I follow. Break stacks last 60 seconds. Even if he only casts one massacre between each fued, the stacks will still drop off whichever tank.

Not quite.

We're using the same tank (Frost DK) for the main phase, while the Blood DK tanks the melee during every Feud; throw me in to take every Double Attack, and you get the basic set up. Now, assuming there are two Massacre casts between every Feud, the Break stacks fall off the Blood DK and he can tank the Feud phase as normal and I'll continue to take every Double Attack. If, however, there is only one Massacre, then either the Blood DK hopes for some dodges and/or parries while he still has Break stacked, or I tank the Feud phase and hope to hard cooldown both Double Attacks, because they will likely kill anyone with Break.

Then of course we move back into the normal phase, I have Break, and the first Double Attack that lands is enough to kill me. Or, we get lucky, and the Blood DK can take the Double Attacks (Break having fallen off) and we're both out of cooldowns for the final phase; arguably where they're needed most.

I loved this fight on normal. It's unique, well thought-out and nicely tuned. On heroic, without a specific set up or a bit of luck (we have no paladin and no Discipline priest, for example), it's finger-crossing time as soon as you get two Feuds in a row.

Hell, we even got three on a few occasions.

Papapaint
03-07-2011, 09:23 AM
We're using the same tank (Frost DK) for the main phase, while the Blood DK tanks the melee during every Feud; throw me in to take every Double Attack, and you get the basic set up.
[/SIZE]

There's your problem.

This is how it should work. Let's call our DPS "tank" A, and our true tanks B and C.

The fight begins with A tanking. B is soaking double attacks.

Fued occurs, B tanks Chimaeron, pops a cooldown to survive the one double attack during Fued.

A begins tanking again after Fued, C is soaking double attacks.

Fued occurs, C tanks Chimaeron, pops a cooldown to survive the one double attack during Fued.

A resumes tanking after Fued. B's stacks of break have dropped by the time the next double attack goes out. Since the duration of Fued is 30 seconds, and the ICD on Massacre in general is 30 seconds, there's no way B will still have stacks of break unless you've made an error somewhere.

You don't have the same tank eating double attacks all fight.

Scotteq
03-07-2011, 09:46 AM
In Heroic, we use a Retadin w/Fury on as the main tank: with the 10k HP buff/rule, he won't die even if he gets crit. The two regular tanks alternate eating doubles & Feud (burn CDs here). The one with no CDs left is on standby and simply maintains debuffs and tries to DPS as much as possible.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Zellviren
03-07-2011, 10:20 AM
Fued occurs, B tanks Chimaeron, pops a cooldown to survive the one double attack during Fued.We're getting two double attacks every Feud, not one.

That means with Break up, even using cooldowns is a risk if you're not avoiding/mitigating at least one of them.

The rest of what you said, however, we can certainly try. A tank (with no Break stacks) to eat the Double Attack (both of them) during Feud is the only way of being safe during it and, as I said, that's impossible if only one Massacre went out between them.

Darksend
03-07-2011, 01:23 PM
You don't have the same tank eating double attacks all fight.

But you can, it is what I do for my guild. This is our setup.

Prot pally or prot warrior whichever is in the raid starts the fight tanking. I taunt every double strike before the feud.

Feud happens, while it is channeling our DK tank taunts. After it stops channeling we treat it like a normal phase just with us grouped, I taunt the 1 double strike when he gets the buff and use shield wall or one of our 3 pain suppressions we have to live. As soon as the double strike debuff fades, the DK tanks it until the next feud with me still taunting double strikes.

Next feud the pally takes it back and I take the double attack during feud again with no stacks and a shield wall or pain sup and the pally continues to cant from the feuded double attack till the next feud with me still taunting double attacks.

We have 4 pallies in the raid so we always have an LOH for the tank to top them up before they start tanking without the bot during feud, which helps a lot.


We're getting two double attacks every Feud, not one.

The second one is only for show, he never actually swings it. The same thing happens during normal phases as well, he will double strike then double strike massacre and if you watch the double strike is still on him during the massacre cast and when the cast ends the double attack simply goes away. I do not even taunt anymore on 1/2 the double attacks because I know he wont actually use it.

Papapaint
03-07-2011, 02:40 PM
But you can, it is what I do for my guild. This is our setup.

You can, but the situation you're describing has your Fued tank sitting at 2 or 3 stacks of break during Fued if you get unlucky with the timing. At that point, you not only run the risk of having that tank be one-shot from a normal melee, but you also but significant unnecessary strain on your healers.

I don't see any way in which that strat is preferable to trading fued tanks, you're asking for higher healing output for no real reason and putting yourself at the mercy of RNG.

Darksend
03-07-2011, 04:46 PM
You can, but the situation you're describing has your Fued tank sitting at 2 or 3 stacks of break during Fued if you get unlucky with the timing. At that point, you not only run the risk of having that tank be one-shot from a normal melee, but you also but significant unnecessary strain on your healers.

I don't see any way in which that strat is preferable to trading fued tanks, you're asking for higher healing output for no real reason and putting yourself at the mercy of RNG.

we have never had a tank death during feud unless it was me to double strike because the priests forgot the PS me.

We also use 3 tank speced tanks, where as I see most people using DPSers.

Zellviren
03-08-2011, 06:17 AM
The second one is only for show, he never actually swings it. The same thing happens during normal phases as well, he will double strike then double strike massacre and if you watch the double strike is still on him during the massacre cast and when the cast ends the double attack simply goes away. I do not even taunt anymore on 1/2 the double attacks because I know he wont actually use it.
Ah... Thanks, Darksend - everything said previously by Papapaint now makes sense and will undoubtedly help.


We have 4 pallies in the raid so we always have an LOH for the tank to top them up before they start tanking without the bot during feud, which helps a lot.
This is what I find most objectionable; even in a 10 man raid, a Protection paladin brings Divine Guardian, Lay on Hands and the best self-healing of the four tanks. On several encounters, paladins are changing the difficulty just as dramatically as DK's were back in Ulduar, but have escaped the bat for some reason.

Will the 20 second cooldown on Word of Glory rebalance them? We'll see.

Papapaint
03-08-2011, 07:48 AM
we have never had a tank death during feud unless it was me to double strike because the priests forgot the PS me.

We also use 3 tank speced tanks, where as I see most people using DPSers.

Again, I didn't say it was impossible, simply that you're not using the ideal strat. The strat discussed in the video and my posts is the least likely to be affected by RNG while allowing you to maximise your RDPS. If you want to use another strat, that's perfectly fine, and part of the fun of this game. However, just because you've never gotten unlucky doesn't mean that your strat is superior.

Sergeant Howie
03-08-2011, 05:52 PM
My guild is now handling the first phases perfectly on 10 man, but today we kept wiping in the mortality phase, our best try beeing wipe at 1% but usually at 10-5%. Even if we hold back to heal everyone up before we push him below 20% and save tank cd`s for the last phase and have our paladin taunt at 20.5% or so we are still beeing destroyed before we can get the kill. We also spread as the last phase hits.

It could be that we just are incredibly unlucky with the rng and tanks dieing too soon in the last phase. Any other tips on how to handle the last phase apart from pushing more dps? We are using a dps/tank speced Feral as MT and two full tanks as OT`s.

klausi
03-08-2011, 09:12 PM
Even if we hold back to heal everyone up before we push him below 20% and save tank cd`s for the last phase [...]
That sounds to slacky to me. Stop at 21%, wait for a massacre - clump up while massacre is casted and top every one off afterwards. You've 14s until the caustics hit the raid to top everyone and push him below 20%.

Then use +1200 primary stat potion, lust and there you go. First kills are a tad rng/luck depended, your tanks need some good avoidance streaks to manage this..

Have every dps shatter/feign death/etc before it's their turn and have everyone use defensive cooldowns (barskin etc.) to survive even further vs the shadow aura.

Darksend
03-08-2011, 10:06 PM
You can, but the situation you're describing has your Fued tank sitting at 2 or 3 stacks of break during Fued if you get unlucky with the timing.


see this confuses me, we must be misunderstanding each other because this CANNOT happen. Which tank are you talking about tank a tank b or the double attack tank?

the double attack tank using our strat never gets a single stack of break the entire fight

you cant possibly mean tanks a or b because you said it yourself Since the duration of Fued is 30 seconds, and the ICD on Massacre in general is 30 seconds, there's no way B will still have stacks of break unless you've made an error somewhere.

So I am really unsure where the misunderstanding is happening.

Papapaint
03-09-2011, 04:27 PM
see this confuses me, we must be misunderstanding each other because this CANNOT happen. Which tank are you talking about tank a tank b or the double attack tank?

the double attack tank using our strat never gets a single stack of break the entire fight

you cant possibly mean tanks a or b because you said it yourself Since the duration of Fued is 30 seconds, and the ICD on Massacre in general is 30 seconds, there's no way B will still have stacks of break unless you've made an error somewhere.

So I am really unsure where the misunderstanding is happening.

Break is a 60 second debuff. If you do not alternate tanks between fued phases, it is possible for Break to still be on the fued tank, because it is possible for chimaeron to case fued multiple massacres in a row.

Unless I'm blatantly misunderstanding you, it sounds as though you have Tank A (who tanks during most of the encounter), Tank B (tanking fueds) and Tank C (double attacks). With this setup, it's entirely possible for Tank B to have multiple stacks of break.

Darksend
03-09-2011, 04:45 PM
Break is a 60 second debuff. If you do not alternate tanks between fued phases, it is possible for Break to still be on the fued tank, because it is possible for chimaeron to case fued multiple massacres in a row.

Unless I'm blatantly misunderstanding you, it sounds as though you have Tank A (who tanks during most of the encounter), Tank B (tanking fueds) and Tank C (double attacks). With this setup, it's entirely possible for Tank B to have multiple stacks of break.

AHHH ok makes sense now. No, tank a and b tank the same amount. Tank a tanks the pull till he casts the first feud then B taunts. A does not taunt back until the next feud by which time even if it is on the next massacre break will still be gone.

Papapaint
03-10-2011, 10:48 AM
AHHH ok makes sense now. No, tank a and b tank the same amount. Tank a tanks the pull till he casts the first feud then B taunts. A does not taunt back until the next feud by which time even if it is on the next massacre break will still be gone.

Ah-ha! Now I understand. Yes, this makes a lot of sense too. The only thing you give up with this is the DPS "tank", but that's certainly not a huge difference.

Kazeyonoma
03-10-2011, 10:56 AM
2% wipe >.< we went into the phase I think at a good time, but just started losing people faster than we could burn him. Any tips for trying to make that phase 3 last as long as possible while simultaneously maximizing dps? I know part of it is that we didn't have very many/awesome disc priests for bubbles. We've tried having the healers that have taunt mechanics (pallies, druids) taunt during the final feud to move up the aggro list but it just seemed slightly out of our reach. Any other tips you can give would be amazing... probably would've helped to not have to use brez's on me and have em for phase 3 >.<

Papapaint
03-10-2011, 11:11 AM
Any tips for trying to make that phase 3 last as long as possible while simultaneously maximizing dps? I know part of it is that we didn't have very many/awesome disc priests for bubbles. We've tried having the healers that have taunt mechanics (pallies, druids) taunt during the final feud to move up the aggro list but it just seemed slightly out of our reach

He's immune to taunt in p3, so I wouldn't waste GCDs on that. Really, you just need to make sure people are using defensive CDs. Are you hitting enrage? That could be part of it.

Kazeyonoma
03-10-2011, 11:55 AM
no not enrage, we're ahead of that, we're just literally losing people, and the taunts aren't during phase 3, by "final feud" i meant feud before he gets pushed into p3, that way they're at the top of the threat right behind tanks (we taunt back as they call out their taunts) during p3, so dps has more time to make stuff hurt.

We had barriers going/rogues popping evasion/etc it just didn't seem to matter at the end, people kept dropping faster than we could get him down, maybe next attempt will be better.

Ion
03-10-2011, 12:03 PM
no not enrage, we're ahead of that, we're just literally losing people, and the taunts aren't during phase 3, by "final feud" i meant feud before he gets pushed into p3, that way they're at the top of the threat right behind tanks (we taunt back as they call out their taunts) during p3, so dps has more time to make stuff hurt.

We had barriers going/rogues popping evasion/etc it just didn't seem to matter at the end, people kept dropping faster than we could get him down, maybe next attempt will be better.

Shaman can Rockbiter taunt too, if you need. Embue Rockbiter, cast Unleash Elements for the Unleash Earth effect. Which gives you 100% threat, or so it claims...so the tank might not even have to taunt back...weird effect...never tried it myself.

Barboza
03-11-2011, 06:52 PM
Deterrence / LoH rotation @ Feud

Please let me know what you think about this has we haven't really tested this yet.

This topic is mainly to show a possible way to counter the first melee attack on Feud phase which tends to kill the tank if they are not topped within 2 seconds.

As previously mentioned the first Chimaeron's melee attack seems to be done right after Feud stops (which takes around 2 seconds) which gives the healers a 2 second window to top of the tank (160k hits at times) because the first attack will be instant.

Some guilds do use a Guardian Spirit / LoH rotation to make sure the tank doesn't die though as we currently dont have a holy priest I am thinking in using another ressource which is Hunter's Deterrence ability.
Hunter's Taunt plus Deterrence would be done every 1st and 3rd Feuds and LoH (glyphed to 7 min CD) would be used every 2nd Feud and probs a 4th Feud if needed (by other paladin).

As the 1st hit lands very fast the short Deterrance duration should be more than enought time to get it parried. Most of the times I am only able to get 2-3 heals off within 2 seconds, 1 being pre casted right after Massacre followed by another cast and a instant heal (if I dont have to spend em before Massacre / have enought time) so I am thinking 5 seconds on Deterrence should be enought to get it mitigated.
This requires some quick reactions on the Hunter tho a quick macro like this could do the trick:

/castsequence reset=3 Distracting Shot , Deterrance
/s Taunt off me in 5 seconds (which will obviously repeat twice)

After the first melee hit the assigned Tank should taunt the boss, since the melee swings seems to be somehow faster I'd say the Tank has around 3-4 seconds to Taunt the boss before the next hit. To put it simple, if the Tank counts 4 (or 5) seconds as soon as Feud phase begins then Taunts then it should be fine.

Feel free to show me your thoughts on it.

Also, I've got a quick question...is Stoneclaw totem able to taunt raid bosses?

Thanks for reading

Darksend
03-12-2011, 01:38 AM
Also, I've got a quick question...is Stoneclaw totem able to taunt raid bosses?

Thanks for reading

This is the first thing I saw in your post when I opened it, the situation you describe led to a very amusing situation when we spent honestly ... 1/2 hr at least .... trying to explain that stoneclaw shield glyph will not save you from a massacre

Best reasoning ever:

"you only need 10K to live, so if I am at 9K and drop the totem I will live" He couldn't understand that the ability hits for 9 bagillion and that absorbing 5K of 9 bagillion still leaves you dead.


O RIGHT to answer your question, the reason that came up is because said shaman pulled the boss with totems before we were ready/had the bot up. So yes, it can taunt it. Although now that I think about it that seems really abusible.

Barboza
03-12-2011, 06:26 AM
Today I've asked the same question on my guild's forum and one of our Shamans replied with the following quotes:

"Worthy of note: This totem is only effective when pulling mobs or when another mob attacks you in the middle of combat. While it will grab the attention of fresh mobs, this totem will not be able to taunt them off of you if you've established significant threat with the mobs."

"So basically even if it could taunt raid bosses (not sure it can) the amount of threat it generates wouldn't be able to surpass the amount of threat the tanks already have."

Meaning this shouldn't be used to get that first hit off the Tank @ feud as it wont work :P

Barboza
03-14-2011, 03:59 PM
I am wondering...did anyone tried to remove Break stacks with HoP? I'll only have the chance to try next Thursday most likelly, buuut, if Break is a melee ability like Sunder or even Malevolent Strikes (already tested and it does remove it, awesome for a Prot Pally with /cancelaura HoP macroed) mayybe...just maybe HoP could work on Break aswell, which in that case would mean you could do it with 1 Tank and 1 Retridin / Frost DK as tanks.

Edit: Nvm it seems like some1 else already tried and wont work
(http://www.wowhead.com/spell=39171)

dawnrose
03-17-2011, 07:20 AM
Hi, i'm a bit new to tanking bosses in BWD on my paladin tank as I'm usually dps or healer. However our tanks have gone inactive so I'm bringing my alt in the mean time.
Since my guild is trying to do heroic Chimaeron and I've never even done him on normal mode as a tank(have done as resto shaman), I'm in need of a few pointers.

I'm a little bit confused about the taunting with Double Attack.
1. How much time is there between the time the boss gains the buff and the time that he actually does his two swings? Do you taunt the boss right before the cooldown is gone or do you wait for the boss to gain the buff to taunt?
2. After getting hit by the Double Attack, does the other tank taunt back or not?
3. Any advise you could give to a player that never done it before? I'm the paladin tank and the other tank is a warrior.

imnotachick
03-17-2011, 07:01 PM
2% wipe >.< we went into the phase I think at a good time, but just started losing people faster than we could burn him. Any tips for trying to make that phase 3 last as long as possible while simultaneously maximizing dps? I know part of it is that we didn't have very many/awesome disc priests for bubbles.

Are you losing people to Chimaeron's melee, or from Mocking Shadow? From what I have seen, a lot of guilds have been wiping at around 1-2%; especially on 10m. If you are starting the burn phase with a raid that has full HP, and they are dying from Chimaeron's melee(rather than Mocking shadow), your DPS might just be a bit under the requirement. Make sure you are saving lust/heroism for when his health<20% to maximize skills like Kill shot/Execute etc.

If Mocking shadow is your problem and you don't have any disc priests, you can always pop aura mastery to mitigate some of the shadow dmg. Otherwise, I would really look into recruiting a disc priest. Not only do they make fued phases much easier (when PW:B is off cooldown) but they also can almost make certain that Chimaeron will melee you before Mocking shadow picks you off. Holy priests with soul warding (i know, a bit unusual) can also accomplish this.

Since you are getting to 2%, I bet if you keep hammering on this boss, eventually your DPS will get the right procs/crit RNG and tanks will get the right avoidance RNG for you to take him down.

GL!

Papapaint
03-18-2011, 02:28 PM
Make sure you are saving lust/heroism for when his health<20% to maximize skills like Kill shot/Execute etc.


This is incorrect for two reasons:

A: You should lust as soon as you get into the phase, while everyone is still alive. I'd even say slightly before the phase.
B: Bloodlust/Heroism sub 20% does not make a difference in the speed of a boss kill. Using Heroism at 100% or using heroism at 20%, the boss will still die in the exact same amount of time. Therefore, BL/Heroism use should be based on having trinket and damage increasing cooldowns available, boss phases that require it, and soft enrages to increase healing (Council is a good example of this). However, there is no benefit to using heroism in execute range.

Found the math:

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?p=385511&rb_v=viewtopic#p385511


Potera wrote:
Nothing wrong with the math listed. The math listed could mis-represent the DPS increase of >35% and <35% (that is, that it's a percentage increase and not an additive increase).

However, assuming that the numbers are semi-accurate representations, the math is fine.

If your DPS above a certain percentage health (N%) is X, and below is X * Y, and heroism boosts your DPS by Z for W seconds, and the total boss health is H:

H * (1 - N) = hit points above the "low health" threshold
H * (1 - N) / X = Time to get boss to the threshold
H * N = hit points below the threshold
H * N / (X * Y) = Time to get boss from threshold to dead

Important point is that: Time = Health / (Damage/sec). In other words, Time = Health * Sec/Dmg

X * Z * W = Hit points of damage done while Heroism active, if above threshold
X * Y * Z * W = Hit points of damage done while Heroism active, if below threshold

Case 1: Heroism at 35%
Time to reach threshold = H * (1 - N) / X (Same as above)

Time to do damage while affected by Heroism: W
Damage done: X*Y*Z*W
Remaining HP: H*N - X*Y*Z*W
Time to finish off boss from that point: (H*N - X*Y*Z*W) / (X*Y)

Total time: H * (1 - N) / X + W + (H*N - X*Y*Z*W) / (X*Y)
= H/X - HN/X + W + HN/XY - XYZW/XY
= H/X - HN/X + W + HN/XY - ZW

Case 2: Heroism at 100%
Time to do damage while affected by Heroism: W
Damage done: X*Z*W
Remaining HP to Threshold: H * (1 - N) - X*Z*W
Time to get boss to threshold from that point: (H * (1 - N) - X*Z*W) / X

Time to get boss from threshold to 0: H * N / (X * Y)

Total Time: W + (H * (1 - N) - X*Z*W) / X + H * N / (X * Y)
= W + ( H - HN - XZW ) / X + HN / XY
= W + H/X - HN/X - XZW/X + HN/XY
= W + H/X - HN/X - ZW + HN/XY
= H/X - HN/X + W + HN/XY - ZW

Notice that the formula for total time to boss death yields the same equation in both cases.

Again, this is reliant on Z and Y being percentage increases, but does not dictate WHAT percents they are. They could be anything. This also means that the Heroism doesn't have to correlate into an exact 40% increase for this to work. The percent can also vary amongst classes, when you consider that the raid-wide DPS will increase by a certain amount with heroism up vs. without it.

Basically, it boils down to Heroism rocks, use it at the time when you can best stack it with trinkets and cooldowns, generally the start of a fight, unless there's a specific phase which benefits from being burned through (Maexxna enrage, Thane kill on 4H, etc).

lewick
03-20-2011, 07:54 PM
I wanted to comment on this to make sure nobody tries it. Chimaeron is immune to distracting shot the entire fight. We actually had this exact thought process, we tried it, and he's immune. During wipes, I also spent some time hitting distracting shots during various phases just to see what would happen and he's immune in every situation I tried.

Someone on EJ said they've tried it on multiple mobs over level 87 and all of them appear to be immune. I'm not sure if it's a blanket immunity, but it definitely does not work on Chimaeron, particularly in heroic mode.


Deterrence / LoH rotation @ Feud

Please let me know what you think about this has we haven't really tested this yet.

This topic is mainly to show a possible way to counter the first melee attack on Feud phase which tends to kill the tank if they are not topped within 2 seconds.

As previously mentioned the first Chimaeron's melee attack seems to be done right after Feud stops (which takes around 2 seconds) which gives the healers a 2 second window to top of the tank (160k hits at times) because the first attack will be instant.

Some guilds do use a Guardian Spirit / LoH rotation to make sure the tank doesn't die though as we currently dont have a holy priest I am thinking in using another ressource which is Hunter's Deterrence ability.
Hunter's Taunt plus Deterrence would be done every 1st and 3rd Feuds and LoH (glyphed to 7 min CD) would be used every 2nd Feud and probs a 4th Feud if needed (by other paladin).

As the 1st hit lands very fast the short Deterrance duration should be more than enought time to get it parried. Most of the times I am only able to get 2-3 heals off within 2 seconds, 1 being pre casted right after Massacre followed by another cast and a instant heal (if I dont have to spend em before Massacre / have enought time) so I am thinking 5 seconds on Deterrence should be enought to get it mitigated.
This requires some quick reactions on the Hunter tho a quick macro like this could do the trick:

/castsequence reset=3 Distracting Shot , Deterrance
/s Taunt off me in 5 seconds (which will obviously repeat twice)

After the first melee hit the assigned Tank should taunt the boss, since the melee swings seems to be somehow faster I'd say the Tank has around 3-4 seconds to Taunt the boss before the next hit. To put it simple, if the Tank counts 4 (or 5) seconds as soon as Feud phase begins then Taunts then it should be fine.

Feel free to show me your thoughts on it.

Also, I've got a quick question...is Stoneclaw totem able to taunt raid bosses?

Thanks for reading

klausi
03-21-2011, 01:20 AM
Someone on EJ said they've tried it on multiple mobs over level 87 and all of them appear to be immune. I'm not sure if it's a blanket immunity, but it definitely does not work on Chimaeron, particularly in heroic mode.
I guess they changed it for every boss-enemy type after hunter were almost necessary for 10 man Halfus HC before those changes. Buying the raid ~5 seconds of no incoming raiddamage every 30s was pretty strong, too.

Barboza
03-21-2011, 03:09 PM
Cheers for the information

cjstarbby
04-07-2011, 02:25 PM
Nefarian will cast a shadow DoT spell on your whole raid called "Mocking Shadow," which deals one to two thousand damage per second to your entire raid.

Just a heads up. The bosses name is Chimaeron. Haha, I thought it was funny. (:

Ookie
04-07-2011, 03:45 PM
We have 1 tank tank the boss the entire fight, and a 2nd tank that eats the breaks. Works perfectly :)

Darksend
04-07-2011, 04:18 PM
Just a heads up. The bosses name is Chimaeron. Haha, I thought it was funny. (:

No, it is nef who casts it. That is the way the hard modes work in BWD, nef interferes on all the fights giving them new abilities.


We have 1 tank tank the boss the entire fight, and a 2nd tank that eats the breaks. Works perfectly :)

you must be confusing break with something else, since break is applied by all melee swings except those during double strike

cjstarbby
04-08-2011, 08:14 AM
No, it is nef who casts it. That is the way the hard modes work in BWD, nef interferes on all the fights giving them new abilities.

Oh right right. I am an idiot. :P

smep
04-11-2011, 03:29 AM
so is the idea here to get a stop DPS at 21% and wait for Feud to go off, then healers blow their load and get everyone topped up to full, push the phase, and go into normal burn mode?

or we could push the burn phase at any point right after a massacre if the healers can bring them up?

part of my question is that I'm a bear tank and I usually cast Tranquility during the first feud, but it seems like I won't be able to on HM.

swelt
04-11-2011, 03:51 AM
@Smep: answer from here - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?74663-Chimearon-25-heroic


Later massacres are most likely all followed by a feud, so judging by your rdps, the enrage timer or the boss%hp you stop dps early or later on. You want to bring him to 21.5-22% and wait for a massacre, clump up while it's casting and use tranq/divine hymn etc right afterwards. After that's done you push him to the 20% transition w/o getting any caustics - it's always 14 seconds from massacre hit to the next wave of caustics - hit hero (he receives 10% more damage during this phase) and pop your 1200 stat potions as well.

Note: If you push him while entering a feud phase you should be aware that it takes another roughly 10s after the transition until the bot is up and running again so you might lose a tank.

The transition to the final phase is pretty critical. The closer to fully topped that your raid group is, the longer the soft enrage timer is at the end.

Ookie
04-11-2011, 10:53 AM
No, it is nef who casts it. That is the way the hard modes work in BWD, nef interferes on all the fights giving them new abilities.



you must be confusing break with something else, since break is applied by all melee swings except those during double strike


Well we 2 tank it. We have 1 tank eat all the debuffs, and the other tank eats everything else.

Stompyomouf
04-11-2011, 05:37 PM
During the would be feud phase when the Bile-O-Tron is offline, how many times does chimaeron hit? I know he does a single melee about 3 seconds after massacre, and then a double attack, but does he single hit again before the bile-o-tron comes back online?

Minnaura
04-11-2011, 07:14 PM
Just curious. Is there a reason the Feud tank steps away from the group? Just don't want to take the additional damage from the poison bomb? (10man raider)

Kazeyonoma
04-12-2011, 11:05 AM
it doesn't matter, in our guild we've actually had the feud tank stand with the group as well to get the benefit of the group/aoe heals. just make sure you split back out after feud ends.

Danksz
04-13-2011, 08:58 AM
During the would be feud phase when the Bile-O-Tron is offline, how many times does chimaeron hit? I know he does a single melee about 3 seconds after massacre, and then a double attack, but does he single hit again before the bile-o-tron comes back online?

he always gets two double attacks in on me during the system failure or offline phase. Id say ~4 normal melee attacks as well.

Darksend
04-13-2011, 11:11 AM
he always gets two double attacks in on me during the system failure or offline phase. Id say ~4 normal melee attacks as well.

Sorry but no. He gains the buff twice, but he never actually swings the second time. Every second double attack (except for the first 3 after the pull), even not during feud, if you watch the debuff he still has it while channeling massacre. That hotfix where massacre clears double attack is what truly made this fight (100-20 at least) a joke, I cannot tell you how many times pre-hotfix I would taunt during massacre and he would double right away and 1shot me and we would wipe for no reason.

Straif
04-16-2011, 02:29 PM
On 25m HM, what cooldowns do you guys use for the double attacks? Nothing for a normal double attack but a healer CD like pain supressin and a tank cooldown for during the feud phase when bile-o-tron i offline?

klausi
04-17-2011, 01:23 AM
You need enough hp to be above 10k hitpoints when the first attack connects so the second one don't kill you almost instantly. If you can't cover this with your regular healthpool then you'll need to pop a cooldown or better: rethink about gearing/raidcomp/-buffs for this fight.

For feud shieldwall-esque abilities is enough to cover the double attack. If it's not avaible (due to 3 minutes cooldown for all tanks besides warriors) you'll likely need external assitance if you're not into gambling :)

Darksend
04-17-2011, 12:28 PM
On 25m HM, what cooldowns do you guys use for the double attacks? Nothing for a normal double attack but a healer CD like pain supressin and a tank cooldown for during the feud phase when bile-o-tron i offline?

Yes, while the bot is up cooldowns are not needed.

During feud I use barkskin on every single one just because it will always be up in addition to a shield wall on the first one and a pain suppress on the next 2


You need enough hp to be above 10k hitpoints when the first attack connects so the second one don't kill you almost instantly. If you can't cover this with your regular healthpool then you'll need to pop a cooldown or better: rethink about gearing/raidcomp/-buffs for this fight.

For feud shieldwall-esque abilities is enough to cover the double attack. If it's not avaible (due to 3 minutes cooldown for all tanks besides warriors) you'll likely need external assitance if you're not into gambling :)

By this I hope you mean: If you are at "above 10K" the first swing will take you to 1 HP and the second will kill you. You need enough HP so that you can take the first swing and still be above 10K hp before the second one lands.

Straif
04-18-2011, 10:08 AM
Thanks Darksend, one little follow-up question from your answer.


Yes, while the bot is up cooldowns are not needed.

During feud I use barkskin on every single one just because it will always be up in addition to a shield wall on the first one and a pain suppress on the next 2.

Did you mean "shield wall" here or some other defensive CD or some other healer CD?

Darksend
04-18-2011, 01:56 PM
Thanks Darksend, one little follow-up question from your answer.



Did you mean "shield wall" here or some other defensive CD or some other healer CD?

I call every 50% damage reduction shield wall no matter what class it is referring to, makes things simpler. We usually run 3 priests so I use druid shield wall + barkskin on the first, barkskin + pain sup on the second third and fourth and we usually push before the fifth so I shield wall when I have agro sup 20

smep
04-21-2011, 03:48 PM
Literally a 300k wipe last night... ugh.

From now on we're going to wait until massacre hits, top off raid, eat the caustics while still healing and then push the phase so that we have the bot up. Too many silly tank deaths in the first seconds of that.

Prodigyloy
04-29-2011, 08:13 AM
Our guild is about to attempt this fight. So i wanted to get some feedback about the strat we are planning to use. Since the recent patch the bile o tron shldnt go offline twice in a row anymore. Would it be viable if we did something like this if we only use 2 tanks for the fight.

Pally tank do most of the tanking throughout. He will be stacked with 4 breaks pretty much the entire fight. During the feud phase, DK Tank will taunt. He will be running with guardian spirit, loh, guardian spirit, lichbourne heals for the first 2 secs assuming 4 feud phases.

He will tank the entire feud phase. After the first hit if he shld be able to get topped up to full with a 60k blood shield. Afterwhich he should have a stack of break on him followed by double attack where he will popped some cds. IBF, divine sac from the prot pally, IBF. Would he be able to survive the feud phases with this setup?

Just came up with this coz from what i have read, it seems he would only get 1 break debuff during feud and 1 double attack. If im seriously wrong or if theres something im missing would appreciate if someone points it out. Thanks

klausi
04-29-2011, 11:32 AM
4 Feud phases sounds to much to me with the recent changes to the fight, even if you're running low on rdps 3 feud is all you should get.

Your DK tank will get two breaks during a feud phase and those will drop until the next feud phase, your tactic should work in theory. Depending on his gear (4 piece?) and health pool (enough to surive a DA with 2 break stacks?) he might have to pop a cooldown for all DA's after the first feud on top off exceptional external cooldown management during all feud phases. If you happen to have a dps warrior/dk/paladin it's way easier running with them as break-soaker :)

Prodigyloy
04-29-2011, 09:26 PM
4 Feud phases sounds to much to me with the recent changes to the fight, even if you're running low on rdps 3 feud is all you should get.

Your DK tank will get two breaks during a feud phase and those will drop until the next feud phase, your tactic should work in theory. Depending on his gear (4 piece?) and health pool (enough to surive a DA with 2 break stacks?) he might have to pop a cooldown for all DA's after the first feud on top off exceptional external cooldown management during all feud phases. If you happen to have a dps warrior/dk/paladin it's way easier running with them as break-soaker :)

Good to know it should only be 3 feud phases. Its what i thought it should be as well but just to be on the safe side. His health pool is about 205k full buffed. For CDs what i meant was 1st feud IBF, 2nd Feud Divine Sac, 3rd Feud IBF again. Good to know tht it should work in theory. haha. Thanks.

Dagray
05-18-2011, 02:35 AM
Some thoughts for those that are having trouble in the burn (Sub 20%) phase:

Be sure to have dps use aggro dumps sooner rather than later. While causing Chimaeron to run around the room trying to gib dps can be helpful, it's usually best to use them early and then use them again after all of your non damage dealers are dead.

Blatantly abuse immunity buffs and spells, as well as evasion type skills. Have your Hunters use Deterrence & keep pet growl on, Mages with Ice Block, Pallies w/ HoP/Bubble, Rogues w/ Evasion, Druids w/ Survival Instincts, etc etc. Make certain that everyone is being shielded and using as many survival cooldowns as possible when they can. Make sure all pets have growl turned on to get extra time, it's also quite helpful to have a few priests in raid for Body & Soul & Lifegrips.

Make certain that your dps don't use their potions before this phase. Having each of your 5 dps (10m) w/ an additional 1200 of their primary stat is a massive boost, especially coupled w/ heroism. It can turn a 5% wipe into a kill easily.

Remind your dps to keep their dots up towards the end, Sub 1% wipes are extremely annoying.

Also: If your tanks can avoid using their 4800 armor potion during the feud/break stacks then have them pop strength/agi potions as well. Granted, they'll likely be dead quickly, so it's not a huge deal, but every little bit counts. Also be certain that non shielding healers aren't attempting to heal at all and are simply dps'ing w/ whatever spells they have.

Darksend
05-18-2011, 03:56 PM
Our first kill .... 3 holy paladins and a resto druid ... they were the first 4 people to die in sub 20 (not counting tanks ... although 2 did die before the second tank died)

Rayoshii
05-27-2011, 03:12 PM
We are trying to progress on HC Chimaeron after we killed HC Halfus on 10man.
We are using 2 tanks eating the double attacks and feud. While we have a dps tank taking the break stacks.
However, we have had a few good attempts (to phase 2).
But other attempts our tank pretty much get 1shotted during the feud (till first massacre after).
The tanks do nothing different then the attempt we had chimaeron to phase 2.
My question is if anyone knows what's going on and maybe how i can counter this?
Our setup:
Feral druid (tank)
Protection warrior
Fury warrior (taking break stacks)
MM Hunter x2
Shadow priest
Arcane mage or destruction warlock
Holy or Discipline priest
Restoration shaman
Holy paladin

Thanks

Destruyen
05-27-2011, 03:14 PM
your tanks are using their cooldowns for feud phase right?

also the tank that is tanking chim for the feud shouldn't be stacking with everyone else if that's what you are doing.

klausi
05-27-2011, 03:46 PM
- Use hand of protection/freedom combo on the tank during a massacre cast if you're sure there's a feud phase afterwards (there will always be a feud phase after a maximum of three massacre casts).
- You should use lay on hands for another feud phase when your tanks don't have their initial boost cooldown (last stand or frenzied regenation - glyphed!! - respectively) ready.
- Tanks using their shieldwall cooldowns either after the first hit (4 piece bonus) or second hit (no setbonus), warrior should have his shieldblock ready for every* double attack.
- With decent dps you should only have to deal with 4 feud phases, start with your warrior taking the DA + first feud because his shieldwall (don't glyph!) will be up again for the third feud phase. Use bubble+hand of sacrifice on the 4th feud-double attack because druid's shieldwall won't be up again in time.
- Both holy and disc priest are strong, disc offers more utility for phase 2 with shield spamming nonstop (= raid drops slower) and a second raid cooldown (in addition to your totem) but Guardian Spirit (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=47788) can help you survive another DA during phase 2 and spamming shield on cooldown should seal the deal as well if you topped the raid before pushing into phase 2. But for a firstkill i'd go with disc, it's just a tad stronger.
- Use the totem (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=98008) during the first feud phase so it can be up again during phase 2, it's the only way (besides Guardian Spirit) to cheat death and "heal" a tank up again.
- Give your fury warrior hand of salvation during the last massacre cast and have both tanks taunt in a row so he can dps and won't get gibbed after the first tank right away.
- Your second tank (here: feral) should run as far away as possible (strafe, don't backpeddal!) before he actually has to tank so that Chim has to walk for quite some time while your ranged spread to the corners as well.. more movement = less hits. Your disc priest should remain in the center of the room so he can shield everyone.

* Before the first massacre Chim actually uses DA twice, afterwards he removes the second DA with his massacre casts.

konzine
05-29-2011, 07:33 PM
I have a quick question regarding tank positioning during the Feud;

My guild is having a little trouble with the fight at the moment. I am wondering, if during feud is the tank taking DA (Double Attack) supposed to stack WITH the raid, or stand outside of it like the tank taking the melee hits from Chim?

I drew a couple picture, which scenario should we go with;


Scenario a;
http://i.imgur.com/VWf7H.jpg

Scenario b;
http://i.imgur.com/Zx6vS.jpg

What is the correct way of handling the situation, during feud?

Thanks.

klausi
05-29-2011, 07:54 PM
You can tank him in the camp for the first 10ish seconds, but that's a dps loss for all your melees (8.5% parry with soft expertise cap)... but it might be easier this way for your healers to bring you back up while chainheal, healing rain, prayer of mending, holy radiance and heals are flying around.

During the slimes i'd tank him outside of raid because he hits hard (you are then at one break stack) and the double attack + slimes might be enough to finish you off.

Darksend
05-29-2011, 08:14 PM
Since your entire raid has a 75% chance to miss debuff anyway parry means pretty much nothing. as such there is absolutely no reason for all 10/25 people not to be stacked, including the main tank and double attack tank.

klausi
05-29-2011, 09:03 PM
Since your entire raid has a 75% chance to miss debuff anyway parry means pretty much nothing.
They don't. Not during the massacre cast and not during 14s time period afterwards until the first caustic will hit the raid.

smep
05-30-2011, 12:07 AM
During the slimes i'd tank him outside of raid because he hits hard (you are then at one break stack) and the double attack + slimes might be enough to finish you off.

iirc, break only affects physical damage

konzine
05-30-2011, 09:52 AM
I guess my situation is we are losing the DA tank every feud nearly. Im just unsure if the DA tank should be in the group, or out so he avoids slimes.

Fetzie
05-30-2011, 10:05 AM
Players with break don't get hit by the spit anyway, so they won't be splitting any damage regardless of position.

Darksend
05-30-2011, 10:12 AM
I guess my situation is we are losing the DA tank every feud nearly. Im just unsure if the DA tank should be in the group, or out so he avoids slimes.

is he using/getting cooldowns? does he have break?

konzine
05-30-2011, 10:21 AM
is he using/getting cooldowns? does he have break?

He has no breaks during the phase. So should he be stacked?

kopcap
05-30-2011, 10:25 AM
We all just stack together.

Fetzie
05-30-2011, 11:45 AM
Are you playing ten man? We don't taunt off for DA during feud and it works perfectly well.

Thaanatos
06-21-2011, 02:30 PM
I don't blame RNG for wipes--there's got to be something going on. I am also hoping that this fight doesn't absolutely require 3 tanks or 2 real tanks and a pseudo-dps tank. We have a prot paly and prot warrior as our tanks. Prot paly pulls, takes breaks initially, warr taunts to soak DA. Feud happens, tanks swap roles, we burn CDs and such on the warrior who becomes the new break tank after feud, rinse/repeat. Problem is, tanks are dying. No amount of healing saves them from being DA with a single break stack. If system goes offline after one massacre, both tanks have break and whoever is unlucky enough to be the current tank just gets killed, then the other one almost immediately after. I don't understand how some groups just assign one tank for breaks, the other for DA and "it works perfectly." Healers are resto shaman, disc or holy priest, resto druid. Perhaps our healing CDs are just insufficient?

Fetzie
06-21-2011, 03:34 PM
Don't you have a plate dps or a feral druid that can play tank for the fight?

Thaanatos
06-21-2011, 04:26 PM
Nope. Our raid lineup:

Prot paly
Prot warrior
Resto shaman
Holy/disc priest
Resto druid
Shadow priest
Mage
Hunter
Rogue
Warlock

Betray
06-23-2011, 12:35 AM
From my experience you need a melee that can taunt to take break stacks to ensure that a tank has 0 break stacks for the feud stage, a dk or a ret pala seem best (I play frost dk and do it in my guild). I guess it could work with a warrior or feral but would require stance changes to taunt and therefore a considerable dps loss (not that dps matters until p2).

Loganisis
06-23-2011, 01:13 AM
completely wrong thread >.<

blindbaby
10-10-2011, 04:18 AM
I am wondering...did anyone tried to remove Break stacks with HoP? I'll only have the chance to try next Thursday most likelly, buuut, if Break is a melee ability like Sunder or even Malevolent Strikes (already tested and it does remove it, awesome for a Prot Pally with /cancelaura HoP macroed) mayybe...just maybe HoP could work on Break aswell, which in that case would mean you could do it with 1 Tank and 1 Retridin / Frost DK as tanks.