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View Full Version : Death Knight Bad CC or bad me?



Mylilpwny
01-18-2011, 06:25 PM
I'm running the regular instances to finish getting ready for heroics and while in the Stonecore I was having a lot of problems dealing with the CC. I was wondering whether I kept breaking CC due to my rustiness (last tanked in BC on my warrior) or their not knowing how to CC. My DK for reference (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/turalyon/pachka/advanced).

I hadn't been there before, the healer was leading. The mobs would be marked and half the time the rest of the mobs would stay and start doing ranged attacks. I would then have to go in and focus on one mob and frantically work the others without using any AoE attacks or break the CC. The incoming damage wasn't an issue, because myself and the healer were both 85 and (technically) ready for heroics. Was the big issue simply poor CC selection?

So, when the CC'd mob is standing in a pack with other mobs, what's the most efficient way to secure threat on the mobs without breaking the CC? Or is it better to break the CC?

Selene
01-18-2011, 06:54 PM
First off what was the composition of the group?

Because at most there are 2 maybe 3 mobs that don't run towards you with the groups in Stonecore.

One is Millhouse who is more of a nuisance than anything. The others are the Stonecore Earthshapers, these guys should be CC if possible to be killed at your leisure after wiping out the melee guys.

After that the next mobs that need to be CC are the Stonecore Rift Conjurer, these guys should be CC if possible to be killed quickly after wiping out the melee guys since they can summon a horde of imps.

So not too sure on what the issue is.

Are you pulling first then having the CC do their thing? Or are you having the CC pull? Generally when you are going to CC stuff, you have the CC pull for you.

Mylilpwny
01-18-2011, 07:34 PM
Me, Priest (healer), 2 Hunters (only 1 was even attempting to CC), Ele Shaman

I was letting them CC and then opening up on the skull. That is, when the one hunter would use a trap.

I hadn't been in there before, so the priest was setting the marks. I do remember on the groups that had two Earthshapers, he'd mark them to be killed first and then sometimes one of the others would be CC'd.

Stormpaw
01-18-2011, 07:37 PM
I find that it's usually best to CC the caster and ranged type mobs, then let the melee mobs come to you. That allows you to generate AOE threat without breaking CC. The person who is marking needs to be familiar with the instance in order to know which mobs will plink away at you from a distance, and which mobs will automatically run into melee range.

If you want/need to kill a caster/ranged first, death grip is amazing. You can also strangulate a caster to make them run into melee range, or a ranged dps can interrupt their initial spell cast to get them to run out of the group.

Also there is always the option of having dps just burn down a caster mob without you tanking it, using interrupts and stuns if necessary. It's usually the melee-type mobs that will quickly kill non-tanks.

Bosk
01-19-2011, 02:13 AM
You can taunt a CC'd mob, even if it completely out of the action, like in an ice block.

Theotherone
01-19-2011, 08:49 AM
The problem was probably worst at the begining, I'd guess. You want to dps the crap out of Millhouse first, but, neither he nor all the mobs will come to you. We basically let the range beat on Millhouse until he retreats and have the tank, tank the adds that do come on the pull. Rather then run in to Millhouse and risk breaking the cc on the adds that don't move. If this makes any sense.

Mammoth
01-19-2011, 09:03 AM
Based on the info you provided I'd go with poor CC selection combined with poor pull strategy. You want to avoid AOE tanking situations near CC targets, way too much of a pain as you are forced to single target mobs or use AOE abilities that are directional in nature. There are a couple of ways you can handle pulls with CC:

1. If you have enough CC to cover all the ranged mobs in a groups you are golden. CC them all and pick up the melee mobs as they come to you.
2. If there are more ranged mobs than CC options, my first preference is to CC what you can then Line of Sight the remainder. This works particularly well in a place like Grim Batol; there's always a nook or alcove to hide behind. Make sure your healer and any CCers who might get initial aggro LOS with you.
3. My fallback for places like Stonecore (multiple casters and no LOS options) is to have the CCers pull their targets (melee unless you have a silence available) away from the group, then apply CC. Or simply CC the casters and let DPS go nuts on Milhouse while you tank the melee mobs away from the group; Milhouse is mostly (maybe solely?) AOE damage anyway.

Worse comes to worse and you have a CC target amongst the group you are tanking, position yourself so the CC target falls outside your AOE abilities. Unless a ranged unit is standing atop the CC target there's always a spot where you can reach them without breaking the CCed mob.

As for whether to break CC or not, it's a judgement call on your part and will change based on your group and the mobs in question. Are you going to have more problems with the extra mob up or having to refrain from using AOE abilities to hold aggro?

Ragris
01-23-2011, 12:35 PM
My tactics for that first hallway in stonecore is cc any ranged mobs except millhouse on pull, D&D the melee that charge the ccers and deathgrip millhouse into the fray. If there isn't enough cc to get all ranged strangulate whatever's left or run up and mind freeze for a quick interrupt. Gotta make sure dps holds off or you'll lose aggro real quick with the mind freeze method.

PatrikL
01-24-2011, 04:50 AM
Even if you are ccing melle instead of ranged make sure to separate the cc'd mobs from the "active" ones by a good 20 yards. Remember that it's not just you who can break cc, some melee dps have cleaves or other attacks in their regular rotation which hits more than one mob. Death Grip and Strangulate are both great to move ranged mobs closer to you and if those arent available a taunt + an Icy Touch or two can make a ranged ob focus on you for quite some time.

Couladin
01-24-2011, 04:55 AM
Most things are said already. I just have a few more tips. If you have casters or ranged, cc them like said above. You can leave 1 caster and 1 other ranged without CC. You can use DG on the "other" ranged and you can strangulate the caster. LIke that, both come to you together with close combat targets.

Talking about the CC of the group you mentioned. You said you have 2 hunters. Than CC can't be a problem at all. Hunters have:
- Trap to freeze mobs
- Sleeping arrow
- Fear

I wouldn't recommend using the fear since it is possible the mob runs into other groups which results in wiping your group. But the other 2 are great. You said only 1 hunter was CC'ing. Don't accept that. If you are having trouble, it is the job of the other to CC also. After that you shouldn't have any problems with trash.

By the way, the fear is very nice on the doggie fight with Beauty to CC one of the small doggies. :p

Selene
01-24-2011, 05:24 AM
Hunters do not have a "Generic" Fear, they have a Fear that affects only Beasts.

Timberton
01-25-2011, 11:54 PM
My strategy for those packs is:
* skull on millhouse
* CC what casters you can cc
* Pull away melees from the cc'ed mobs
* put some aoe threat on them
* on dk I'd deathgrip the caster that didn't recieve cc, on druid i'd charge/skull bash to silence the caster. On warr heroic throw silence or taunt-spell reflect or charge-shield bash intercept back to the melee grp. Careful not to break CC
* Millhouse is a magic type of add, his damage is not tankable, thus any class can act as a tank for him due to high health pool. Do the above strategy, then taunt millhouse at a convenient time.

PatrikL
01-26-2011, 04:31 AM
I wouldn't recommend using the fear since it is possible the mob runs into other groups which results in wiping your group.

Many (most?) locks have fear glyphed so that the mobs stay in place and makes it work just like any other full cc.

Libellus
01-26-2011, 06:46 AM
On those first four trash pulls, my strategy is similar to Timberton's.

Skull on milhouse
CC on the casters (usually one or two).
Everything else is fine un'ccd, but if folk want to put the cc on, they should do it quick. Cc left until the adds are on the tank is worthless unless it is something unbreakable like banish. Otherwise odds are the cc will run smack bang into your initial aoe threat.

Usually let the cc pull, which is typically the case for hunters, as their cc pulls are no longer straightforward I understand.
Use an interrupt or deathgrip or something that stops milhouse casting and brings him over to you.
Let the melee mobs run towards the group.
Pick those up with AoE threat.
Damage Milhouse until he clears off.
Kill melee.
Take the cc'd adds one at a time.

Selene
01-26-2011, 09:32 AM
Many (most?) locks have fear glyphed so that the mobs stay in place and makes it work just like any other full cc.

The smart ones do anyhow. First time I ask anytime I see a lock in a pug is do they have Fear glyphed. 90% of the time the answer is no, to which I tell them they will want to do so, especially for heroics.

Iamkelly
02-04-2011, 09:33 PM
Ok im going to give you a super pro tip that i guess only warriors know because as far as i know most other tanking classes dont do this. Buffing after the CC goes out will give you threat on everything making it so all mobs run right to you as long as no one attacks them. So, Trap -> Mobs start running -> Sheep, Hex, ect. -> Horn of Winter -> Mobs on you -> AoE to hold threat.

As far as casters go, that's what Death Grip is for.

BTW

Rule of thumb for CCing a heroic you have never done: CC anything with mana first, others if you have more CC