PDA

View Full Version : Tanking The new but not-so-great adventure of an old timer tank



Kinni
01-16-2011, 08:35 PM
Hi my fellow tank comrades,

I've recently came back to Cata full time. (I made several come-backs during WotLK and hated the fast mode dungeon running. Combined that with the dungeon finder and my busy work schedule, i was only casually playing once in a while.) And I found it quite difficult to get my old main tank mojo back.

A little background of me, I started playing as a warrior since wow launched. Played 3 years as one of the main tanks for my guild's 40 people raid. Fading out during the late period of TBC and raided for the last time in Karazhan. Then as I mentioned above, made a couple attempts to come back during the late phase of WotLK, was outgeared by everyone's alts and was turned off by the fast mode dungeon zerging. Due to my recent work time getting better and seeing all the nice changes in Cata, I decided to give this new gears/progression "reset button" another try.

SOOOO long story short (finally realized I've been talking too much), I'm having the most difficulties (besides the heroics encounters) with trash mob groups. I tried to do my normal rotation of rend > tc > sw > cleave at first, but it seems that i either start losing threat on one of the mobs who somehow got away from my attacks or my healer couldn't keep me alive. Then when I tried to do CC, I would not know what to do in the first couple seconds in fear of breaking CC with my Thunderclap. And end up losing aggro and have to struggle putting all the mobs in a nice cluster.

It seems that the only aggro I'm good at getting is the healer's and the dps ghost running back. Now I really do enjoy tanking and I used to be good at it, its the one thing I can honestly say it matches my personality and has always been my ultimate goal. It's getting more and more frustrated (for me, for people I don't know who just happened to unfortunately grouped with me, and for friends I knew since vanilla wow who died 50 times with me in front of Ozruk.) and I'm really questioning myself if I even qualify to be the meat shield anymore...

Again sorry for the wall of text, I hope you guys are kind enough to give me some pointers. Thanks in advance.

Tengenstein
01-16-2011, 11:17 PM
okay for most trash pulls you wnat the CCers to opull from maximum range (about 20 yards.) the healer should be as far behind them as possible and you want to be behind the healer by about 25 yards. the CCers pull and runback, once the non-cc'ed mobs are seperated from the CC'ed ones you charge, because you're charging from max range your GCD comes off before you fininsh the charge, allowing you to Shockwave on the move, the mobs end up stunned , with you behind them, rend thunderclap and cleave at will as you should be far enough away that TC won't break things.

oh and remind any trigger happy DPS that you are not a ranged tank and it generally is a good idea to let you get within melee rage before firing off. good idead to mark what you want CCed (casters. ranged, anything that won't come to you)

Kinni
01-17-2011, 03:49 AM
I tried demo shout but that really doesn't cut it for the beginning of fight. And what about in tighter places like Grim Batol?

It's kinda funny in a way but I guess my biggest problem right now is that I'm taking it way too seriously and really losing confidence as a tank. I just tanked GB with 2 guildies/long time friends and 2 pugs and one of my guildies (healer) took off because of how I keep getting him aggro'd in trash and not moving fast enough in other boss encounters. I feel so sucky haha maybe i should just take a break from the game...

Gameforreal
01-17-2011, 04:09 AM
hehe I am feral tank, i should have same problem...

But we have really high dps both warriors and druids...

I am at a gear lvl now where we do not CC in hcs.. But if you CC in heroics, make sure they CC pull, and just agro the ones running lose when they come running for the cc'ers.

I have broken my share cc'd mobs tho.. i pref feared and hexed targets as they dont break from one swipe or trash aoe skill. =)

Kinni
01-17-2011, 04:56 AM
Another thing is... I'm not too high on hit% as I was told not to worry about having hit as to neglect avoidance/mitigation. Is it right to not even reforge +hit? Should I work on expertise? I don't think I have a threat problem in general and esp on single target I can hold the boss pretty well.

I currently have only 3% hit (versus my 15% hit fury spec), 19 expertise (reforged 3 pieces of my gears for some exp, I can probably get to 26 with more reforging) 10.65% dodge, 12.84% parry, and 43% block. item lvl 333, just started heroics.

Gameforreal
01-17-2011, 05:07 AM
Hi Kinni,

I wouldnt worry to much about expertise in start.. Hit i i would tho, if warriors is anything like druids. then hit rating is most atleast to 6% for heroics.

So you dont miss on trash.

/Game.

Tengenstein
01-17-2011, 09:57 AM
I tried demo shout but that really doesn't cut it for the beginning of fight. And what about in tighter places like Grim Batol?

It's kinda funny in a way but I guess my biggest problem right now is that I'm taking it way too seriously and really losing confidence as a tank. I just tanked GB with 2 guildies/long time friends and 2 pugs and one of my guildies (healer) took off because of how I keep getting him aggro'd in trash and not moving fast enough in other boss encounters. I feel so sucky haha maybe i should just take a break from the game...

Hi,there's an axiom that; DPS is a Science, Healing is an art, and tanking is a strategy.

this means that execution is key, but most of the work happens before hand.

Demo shout is not a high threat move, and we don't use it to hold aggro. we use it because 10% less physical damage is a very nice thing, we do want to squeeze it it as sson as possible in any situation where physical damage is a factor of tank death. But we also need to hold aggro.

Are you marking targets? are DPS sticking to your marked targets? are you tabbing around to monitor and put threat on each target?

Like the others have said, hit and expertise while nice threat stats are not necassary, you should not feel bad about reforging out of them. your use of abilites are by far the determining factor of you capability to hold mobs. Whats your up time on IR, how often do you HS, are you cleaving? is your spec/glyphs approproate to the fights? Incite is worthless if you never use HS and BnT is of limited use if you're only tanking a single mob at a time

i run with about +1% hit and 11 expertise, and my threat is fine, opening with a shock wave guarantees my first few GCDs connect, as mobs can't dodge/block/parry/be missed while their stunned and as you should be using SW on CD in multitarget fight the mobs are going to be stunned 20% of the time anyway. Druids and DKs need hit/expertise becuase their mastery's require them to land hits to activate, warrior's mastery has no such mechanic, they have no insta-taunt refresh like vigilance so they can't spam taunts until it hits. the only reason to stack hit is for interupts, and being that most mobs are vunerable to silece Gag order gives us two sileces, and spell reflect gives us the ultimate feel good ability

uglybbtoo
01-17-2011, 11:41 PM
Druids and DKs need hit/expertise becuase their mastery's require them to land hits to activate, warrior's mastery has no such mechanic, they have no insta-taunt refresh like vigilance so they can't spam taunts until it hits.

Did you miss the cata changes TAUNTS can't miss.

Timberton
01-18-2011, 04:42 AM
I'd say you need to increase the number of guildys that run with you, and you can work better with some voice communication with your guildys, esp. in the start.


Long story short, I got a lvl 85 feral tank, almost full raid geared and in the top 10 best geared people from my neck-of-the-woods server according to wowprogress (I know how to do my tanking yo...). Rerolled warrior tank for increased tanking toolkit.
Second day after my warrior tank dinged 85 (after I gathered gear from rep, AH, crafts....etc) I jumped in a heroic with 4 guildys, pugging a healer, it all went blindingly fast and efficient.

Third day, only 1 other guildy was available for a random HC...ooooh... horror ensued. Wiped 2 times before first boss, wiped a few times on each boss, wiped some more on the trash before each boss, then wiped copiously on last boss. This was grim batol, my true ilvl being 334, ending the wipes mostly with me and eighter healer or guildy up. After about 6 wipes on last boss I finaly gave up after more than 2 hours, 5 dps, 4 healers cycled during the HC; and logged my druid for raid (made 9/12 progression that nite and some decent Al'Akir tries..woohoo!).

It may be that I'm not accustomed to warrior tanking yet, or I had a off-day, but I hope my lil' story cheered you up a bit. You are not alone in there...


To characterize the Tanking issues encountered in the wipe feast HC:
* Low snap threat in the beginning of the pull, so sad seeing the mobs making a bee-line twords the healer and you running to smack a mob to grab rage to spend on 1 aoe move that may or may not aggro all mobs since the dps already opened up.
* Dps insisting they tank their own mobs, repeatedly, mostly done by other melees (whee...DK/enh shammy ftw), leaving me to kill skulled mob with the guildy I brought.
* Healer insisting to position him/her self between the CC pulled mobs and the tank. Guess who gets aggro upon first heal? Guess who dies ?
* DPS insisting to dps mobs they pulled aggro on, plus, if the (icon marked) tank backpedals around a corner, It's good for your health to do the same.

Tengenstein
01-18-2011, 09:28 AM
Did you miss the cata changes TAUNTS can't miss.

I thought the change was that taunts now hit of the melee hit cap as opposed to the spell hit cap. Either way warriors still don't need hit.

Kinni
01-21-2011, 03:28 PM
So using some of your advices, I'm definitely doing better now with pack tanking. The "Stay a little behind, charge in midway and shockwave>rend>thunderclap" really make it so much better. I think I'm gaining more confidence with that method. I have one last question, I think I'm pretty much ready to consistently tanking heroics but I'd like to have a check with you guys to see if my gears are ready. Here's my armory:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/dragonblight/kinni/advanced

I pretty much ignore hit/exp in order to get more avoidance/mastery.