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Aliena
01-03-2011, 11:44 PM
iTlEAnZBF_k



Hello and welcome to the Blackwing Descent Raid Guide! My name is Aliena, and in this video I'll show you all you have to know about Nefarian, the last encounter in this new raid instance. We completed this fight with 3 tanks, 6 healers and 16 DPS - or 2 tanks, 3 healers and 5 DPS in the 10 man version - but similar raid configurations may work just as well.

Nef is a 3-phase encounter and probably the most challenging fight you'll find in this tier. In the first phase, you fight both Onyxia (yep, again!) and Nefarian at the same time while skeletons try to eat you, in the second phase, you're up against three Chromatic Prototypes while Nef annoys you from the air with his fireballs, and in the third phase you only fight Nef, but he kept his Bone Warriors from phase 1 around.

The goal in phase 1 and 2 is to do as much damage to Nef as you possibly can while keeping your raid stable and without jeopardizing a wipe, while phase 3 is all about add control. You want to aim to have Nef at about 75% health when phase 2 starts, at about 65-55% health when phase 3 starts. Let's go over the different phases and abilities you'll have to deal with.

When you first jump down into the arena, you'll only encounter Onyxia, who's been turned into a bit of a living bomb. As soon as you pull her, a little electro-meter will pop up on your UI, illustrating her electric charge level. If this bar ever fills up, it's an instant wipe for your raid. The bar will fill up quicker if no one is DPSing Onyxia, so make sure not to neglect the poor girl. Your Onyxia tank should pull her to a far side of the room and have her face and tail away from the raid as she has a cleave, a breath and a tail lash. Your ranged raid members and healers should be positioned in the middle of the room.

When Onyxia's sides start sparkling, your tank must adjust her position so her tail faces the raid. This is because Onyxia is about to use Electric Discharge, which deals a ton of damage per second to anyone located to either side of her. Your raid might get tail lashed during this, but it's a lot better than standing in Electric Discharge.

Once pulled, a bunch of Animated Bone Warriors will spawn around the room. These come with a twist - they each have 100 energy and will lose 2 energy per second. WHen their energy bar is completely drained, the skeletons will enter an inanimate state and will only revive if touched by any of Nef's Shadowflame abilities. In the 25-man version, you want to designate a tank to gather up all skeletons and kite them, but the kiter needs to avoid Nef's and Onyxia's breath abilities.

Make sure to assist him by using abilities such as frost trap, frost nova and other AoE slow and stun abilities. This is incredibly important! Whenever a skeleton lands a hit on a raid member, they gain a buff called Empower, which increases their damage and movement speed by 10% a stack. This buff can grow infinitely, so it's crucial that the skeletons land as little hits as possible on your raid. It's very easy to see when skeletons stack this buff up high, as they grow enormously large.

If you're doing this in the 10-man version, it'll be 6 skeletons and you can set up a crowd control chain for them in phase 1. Fear, Shackle, Repentance and most other crowd control effects work just fine. Try to have all skeletons "die" in about the same area, this is important for phase 3.

Approximately 30 seconds after engaging Onyxia, Nefarian will land and your second tank must pick him up and pull him to the opposite side of the room, away from Onyxia. If Nef and Onyxia are within 60 yards of each other, they gain a 100% attack speed buff - obviously, you want to avoid that. Nef too has a Cleave, a Breath and a Tail Lash but no Electric Discharge, so there's no need to move him. Just make sure neither his face or tail is facing your raid.

Once Nef is stabilized, you want to designate a DPS team to switch from Onyxia to Nef. Figuring the DPS split out is trial and error - you want to leave enough DPS on Onyxia so that she's close to death when Nef is at about 75% health, give or take a few. However, don't forget about Ony's Lightning Charge level - kill her before this fills up, even if Nef's not quite as far down as you'd like.

Nef's trademark ability throughout the whole fight is Crackle. When he reaches 90% and every 10% of his health thereafter until he dies, Nef will emote "The air crackles with Electricity!" and shortly afterwards, every single raid member will take about 100k nature damage. Since it happens every 10%, Crackle is predictable, and your raid needs to be completely stable before you push Nef's health past a threshhold. Ideally, you want two Crackles to happen in phase 1, another 2 in phase 2, and the rest of his health can be burned down in phase 3.

Crackles can be mitigated by Divine Guardian, Feint and other abilities. If you have a Divine Guardian available, you can use it to mitigate up to 3 crackles throughout the fight.

Again, aim to have Nef around 75% health before killing Onyxia. As soon as she dies, phase 2 starts and the entire area will fill up with lava. This is where the three pillars around the room come into play. Split your raid up into three groups - tanks are not necessary for this phase, the Prototypes do not melee. We assign 2 healers to each platform in the 25-man, 1 healer each in the 10-man. Furthermore, each platform needs reliable interrupters. In the 25-man, you want to aim for at least 2, but preferably even more interrupters per platform, in the 10-man 1 interrupter is the bare minimum. Obviously, the DPS spread should be even.

As soon as Onyxia dies, everyone needs to run to their assigned pillar and wait for the lava to come up.

A chromatic prototype will spawn on each pillar, and as soon as the lava reaches its maximum fill level, each raid member needs to hop onto their assigned pillar. Be quick with this, the lava deals increasing damage the longer you're in it. Also, as soon as the lava reaches its max level, each Prototype will start casting Blast Nova, which is a relatively quick cast. Blast Nova needs to be interrupted at all costs, every single time it is cast. Letting even just one tick of it go off will easily cause a raid wipe. In the 10-man, Prototypes will cast this roughly every 12 seconds, in the 25-man it's roughly every 6. All interrupts will work, even the blood elf racial Arcane Torrent.

While you're fighting the Prototypes, Nef will fly around above you and spam your raid with Shadowflame Barrage. This deals a LOT of single target damage. Phase 2 is easily the most healing intense phase of the whole fight, and healers need to closely monitor their mana. Lightwells proved to be a big help for us. You should designate ranged DPS to concentrate on Nef in this phase, to bring his health down another 10-20%. It's tough, but you want at least one, better yet two Crackles to happen to make phase 3 easier. In the 10-man, DPSing Nef in phase 2 is not absolutely required, but it does help.

Co-ordinate cooldowns for phase 2 crackles, and make sure each platform is stable before pushing Nef past a threshhold. Phase 2 lasts for 3 minutes or until every Prototype is dead, whichever happens first. Remember, keeping the raid stable is of utmost priority. If you cannot afford another Crackle to go off without having people die, just push Phase 3.

Once it starts, Nef will land and your tank has to pick him up once more. Drag him to the very edge of the room, and have your raid stack up to the side of him. Again, tail swipe breath cleave, you know the drill. Hopefully all the adds from phase 1 went inanimate in roughly the same spot, as Nef will shoot a Shadowblaze missile at them right after phase 3 starts, and adds touched by this will revive with full energy and need to be picked up and kited by your tank.

Shadowblaze will also spawn pink fire that'll follow the nearest person, and if the adds are touched by this, they'll also reset their energy bar. The best way to deal with this is to have your add-tank watch Nefarian while kiting, and everytime he shoots a Shadowblaze missile at the skeletons, have him move them out of the way so they don't get hit by the initial missile or the fire that'll start following your tank once the missile hits.

The kiting should happen well away from Nefarian himself, and your add-tank should have 2-3 healers accompanying him. Ideally, the adds will not get hit by any shadowblaze and go inanimate after 50 seconds. Going inanimate will reset their buff, so they'll be a lot more managable when Nef re-animates them. As the phase goes on, more and more fire will cover the room and it will get tougher to keep the adds out of it. If they do touch it, their energy bar is reset to 100 and you have to deal with another 50 seconds of very angry large adds beating you up.

This is why it's preferable to get Nef low before phase 3. If your add-tank dies, it's basically game over, and the shorter the phase, the less chance of that happening. Of course, Crackle still happens during phase 3, and it's important to call out impending Crackles so cooldowns can be applied to your add-tank. As mentioned, it is imperative to keep your add tank up. If add control is executed correctly, phase 3 is a tank and spank with predictable damage spikes.

That covers the Nefarian encounter. Good luck and have fun, as always! Ive attached footage of the whole encounter in case you would like to see how we dealt with the various mechanics in detail.

Rennadrel
01-04-2011, 12:09 AM
Wow, that's insanity like none other. Even on normal this fight looks like it will give Lich King a run for his money. Congrats on the kill and thanks for the video as always :)

Ghos7Face
01-04-2011, 12:39 AM
Make sure to assist him by using abilities such as frost trap, frost nova and other AoE slow and stun abilities. This is incredibly important! Whenever a skeleton lands a hit on a raid member, they gain a buff called Empower, which increases their damage and movement speed by 10% a stack. This buff can grow infinitely, so it's crucial that the skeletons land as little hits as possible on your raid. It's very easy to see when skeletons stack this buff up high, as they grow enormously large.We actually found this to be wrong. The stacks increase over time, not per hit. By not realizing this sooner we wasted so much time on him it's just sad.

What you want to do in P1 is have the add tank pick all of them up and then position them at your assigned position (it can be anywhere, depends if you want to keep Nefarian in the middle of the room in P3 or at the side; both positions work but you need to adjust to them). They are easily tanked with the help of a cooldown or two. Once they are in position stuns such as Shadowfury and Shockwave are very good ways to decrease the damage taken by the tank. It is quite important to have all of them at the same spot so that they all ress up at the same time during P3. If they split up the fire might get quickly out of control and cover the position of your raid. It will also make "resetting" the add's energy a lot harder.

For P3 we found out that watching the Shadowblaze was quite hard because of the boss position. We kept him in the middle of the room which meant that by the time you could see it, it was already too late to move. However, there is a trick. Shadowblaze has a set timer. You can't see it. I believe there's no combat log event for it either. We established that the cooldown of Shadowblaze decreases the longer the fight lasts until it reaches 10 secs. The blazes will not spawn more often than those 10 secs. It goes like this:

0:00 - First Shadowblaze resurrects all of the adds
0:30 - Second Shadowblaze (30 secs after the previous one)
0:55 - Third Shadowblaze (25 secs after the previous one)
1:15 - Fourth Shadowblaze (20 secs after the previous one)
1:30 - Fifth Shadowblaze (15 secs after the previous one)
1:40 - Sixth Shadowblaze (10 secs after the previous one)
1:50 - Seventh Shadowblaze (10 secs after the previous one)

And so on until you kill him. With our dps we needed only two successful resets to down him. If you can't achieve the second reset, it is very likely that your tank will die.

Something very important for P3 kiting is to not slow or stun those adds. They are perfectly tankable. Any slow or stun at the wrong time means that they are more likely to get hit by the flame. If that happens it's more or less game over. However, this does not mean that you must never stun them. As you can see from the times shown above there is a small window between the Shadowblazes that you can use. Once they are out of the fire, you can stun them (especially good for the last few secs before they reset as they will have a lot of stacks up by that point) and then keep moving.

Also, move as little as possible. Only move enough to keep the adds out of the fire. The rest of the time sit still and eat the damage. If you move around too fast you will spread the fire too quickly and eventually you will run out of kiting space.

Aliena
01-04-2011, 12:54 AM
Good info! Made a few annotations.

Sky
01-04-2011, 01:05 AM
The encounter is bugged in a way so mages cant use ring of frost.

Charonites
01-05-2011, 04:18 AM
The encounter is bugged in a way so mages cant use ring of frost.

Why would you want to?

Using Ring of Frost to me just seems to be ensuring that the adds will get hit by Shadowflame and have their energy reset to 100.

This is bad.

Sure, they should -allow- you to do it, but it's one of those instances where it'll do you more harm then good.

Teppic
01-05-2011, 12:33 PM
With consistent slows would it be possible to kite the adds indefinitely even if they keep touching fire? A frost death knight with chillblains can maintain a 50% slow permanently on the entire pack as long as he doesn't miss (are the adds boss-level enemies?), and slowly kite them around without getting hit, similar to the old lady deathwhisper strategy.

Does the fire behave in a way that would make this unreliable? The only thing I can think of is if they don't die you might have some difficulty turning around to get to the other side of the room without getting dangerously close to the raid, but since you're not worried about the adds standing in the fire you could get help from a frost mage's water elemental or something to give yourself time to change direction. You could also stack the raid on the opposite side of nef in the video (basically right up against the wall) to give the kiter as much room as possible.

This also could free up at least one healer. I suspect you'll still want one back with the kiter in order to heal him up between the lightning crackles, and maybe help direct the fire away from the raid. If you had a holy priest do it, body and soul would also make kiting around easier.

Luvaria
01-05-2011, 04:08 PM
I haven't done the fight quite yet (this week prob) but according to Wowhead the adds are level 85 and have the ability http://www.wowhead.com/spell=81586.

Teppic
01-05-2011, 05:02 PM
Interesting, I haven't seen anyone mention that before. Probably because it's not all that noticeable unless you try to do exactly what I'm talking about. Assuming that stacks with the buff they build (odd that wowhead doesn't list that ability) at some point it'll just be unhealable. Too clever for me this time it seems blizzard.

Sair
01-05-2011, 11:16 PM
You cannot kite them indefinitely. They gain stacking damage and movement speed buff. Ghos7Face described exactly how the adds should be treated in both phases.

Hurl Bone is never used under any normal circumstances.

krasagrado
01-09-2011, 09:58 AM
Any tips on how to kite them in 10men mode?
I'm thinking the ranged dps kiter gathers them all and just move around until they go down. Is that correct?

Also, what damages the raid on P1 and P3 besides the crackle, if onyxia's discharge doesn't hit anyone? What about P2, if the adds are properly interrupted, all the damage would be from nefarian's bolts, and nothing more right?

gacktt
01-09-2011, 10:13 AM
This guy must be the poster child for class stacking. Disc priest? wee aoe only hits for 20k after 4.06 without any personal CDs. No disc priest? ouch 75k.

Garbid
01-18-2011, 02:05 AM
We are about to go for Nef next week so I'd also like a tip for the kiting. As we will be doing it 10man first before 25man, how do you use the two tanks? I'm assuming your gonna need both tanks on Onyxia and Nef during phase 1 so who does the kiting ? A dps or 1 of the tanks ?

klausi
01-18-2011, 03:02 AM
We killed him with both kiting ways, last night we tanked nef in the middle so i can easily kite on the outer ring.. well that was the plan. It was a total mess due to taillash on me (kitetankg), they respawned and walk to a healer/tanking dk (aggro vom deathstrike). If next meteor is going to hit them there fire almost everyhwere..

Next time we'll definitely have Nefarian be tanked again on one position the entire fight (before and after flightphase) and kite the adds in a half-circle and back through the middle to the beginning - fire should be despawned by then. Works best for us.

About the kite/control in p1: if you have a dps druid or a frost dk let them do the kiting/offtanking, our mage died several times the other night due to unlucky tailswipes from Onyxia until he managed to survive like in the weeks before. Having some shackled/rooted/feared(warlock-glyphed) in place can be off help, too.

Rheinhardt
01-19-2011, 12:48 PM
As the second tank for the encounter you need to give the raid as much time as you can to DPS Nef in phase 3, most guilds are only capable of letting 3 crackles go off before phase 3 (2 in phase 1, and 1 in phase 2). This leaves 5 crackles for phase 3. Which means phase 3 will last approximately 3:00 to 3:30.(assuming a crackle every ~40 seconds.) Using the information above from Ghos7face, and some clever positioning you can have the adds reset only 1 time and still give your raid the 3+ minutes of DPS time they need. Here is the timeline and positioning

0:00 - First Shadowblaze resurrects all of the adds
0:30 - Second Shadowblaze (30 secs after the previous one)
0:55 - Third Shadowblaze (25 secs after the previous one)
1:15 - Fourth Shadowblaze (20 secs after the previous one)
1:30 - Fifth Shadowblaze (15 secs after the previous one)
1:40 - Sixth Shadowblaze (10 secs after the previous one)
1:50 - Seventh Shadowblaze (10 secs after the previous one)

Position Nef parallel against the wall (anywhere on the circle will work).

The adds die at 0 Energy, and it takes ~50 seconds for the adds to go from 100 to 0 energy.

Shadowblaze is a projectile attack from Nef to the adds, it flies decently slow(like a shadowcrash). It has no cast time and Nef doesn't switch targets, but as mentioned above its on a timer.

0:00 - 0:30
It is unlikely that the first shadowblaze will ressurect all 5 adds together, most of the time they are slightly spread out. The fire follows the skeletons, so use the first skeleton up to kite the fire to the remaining skeletons lying dead(you must have all 5, don't CC one). You have 30 seconds to make sure every skeleton is up and running and get yourself into position to "drag" them along the perimeter of the room. Start as close the edge of nefs flame breath as you can, and don't move until the second Shadowblaze. (its not a big deal if the adds get re-energized you want this to happen in a moment anyway).

0:30 - 0:55
At the 30 seconds mark Nef will emote something about shadow and dust signifying a shadowblaze it will target the adds that you are still holding in place near his head. Once it hits and all 5 skeleton are at 100 energy, start backpeddling slowly around the perimeter of the room. At the 54-55 second mark, turn and sideways/strafe run for an extra burst of speed so the shadowblaze misses the adds, the longer flight time from his position to yours will help with this. As soon as you see it land, go back to backpedalling slowly.

0:55 - 1:15
Keep back pedalling with the adds and wait for the 1:14-1:15 mark to do another sideways/strafe run. Shortly after the fourth shadowblaze lands, the adds will die out. (approx 1:20). Let your healers know the adds died, and they have 10 second of almost no raid/2nd tank damage.

1:30 to Kill
Nef will shadowblaze again to res the adds, 3-4 should pop immediately, use the fire again to make sure you get all 5.

At this point the shadowblaze casts will get to fast to realistically keep the adds out of the fire. Instead, keep yourself out of fire, and use stuns and CD's to last as long as you can.

A decently geared tank can take hits from the adds up until about 25 stacks, it takes them another 1:40 seconds after dying to reach this amount.

This gives you approximately 3:00 minutes guaranteed DPS time for your raid. When the stacks are getting high wait for a shadowblaze, and move the adds clear of fire and call for any CC avaiable, then pull the remaining adds as far from the boss as you can and wait for nef to go down.

You'll likely die before that happens.

This unlikely strat works for two reasons, It eliminates the need of getting a second clear of the adds(as a second clear takes at least 1:40, and at that time Nef is casting shadowblaze in 10 second intervals) and by allowing the adds to stack up more movement speed, you can guarentee they will move quick enough so you can easily keep them out of a shadowblaze. Do not use slows or stuns until the adds have died for the first time.

Vassilly
01-21-2011, 02:31 PM
This was by far the hardest fight for my team on 10man. Rheinhardt does a pretty good job of explaining phase three ill just add a few tips. We pushed three crackles in phase 1. To do this we burned ony to about 15% and left a frost mage on her then crackled three times. The key is to have ony die within one or two seconds of the third crackle or she will wipe the raid. Every crackle increases her bar so a third will make her explode if you dont time it right. We hit 60% in phase 2 and everyone popped a defensive cooldown. We started phase 3 at about 52% and popped hero because the start of phase 3 is the least hectic time. From there its just follow what Rheinhardtt says and dps your tooshy off. When the adds are about to hit untankable status drag them to the oposite end of the room and die. I cannot find a video or WOL were the wheels don't fall off the last 20%. Just hit your fears and novas and dps hard. If your about to wipe at the end your probably doing it right.

Hunter tips: I did this one my hunter so I have a few nuggets. Use glyph of raptor strike and aspect of the wild every 10% it really helps your healers and guarantees you don't die. Without those two things crackle hits for 80-90k, with them its 58-67k. At the start of phase 2 deterrence. If your fail like me lava will stack up on you a few times and deflecting a few shadow bolts will protect you. Dps nef the second he comes down. If your specced careful aim your phase 1 nef dmg should be very high and help push three crackles. Thats about all I got. For a reg mode fight this is a pretty stiff challenge at current gear lvls on 10man. My understanding is 25 is much simpler.

gacktt
01-25-2011, 08:05 AM
Our shaman+druid healer 10man cannot handle p2 healing with crackles, our best attempt is about 18-20%(start at 73% p3) that is when the reviving-fireballs get spammed every 10 seconds, so it's the soft enrage.

Should everyone just use a prismatic elixir and push for 2 electrocutes and start p2 at 52% and just keep retrying if we fail?

If only we could just start p3 at less than 55% we should beat him every attempt, it's the p2 damage that just seems to be overwhelming for just chain heals I guess.

Luvaria
01-26-2011, 09:35 AM
We haven't killed it yet, but I'm a resto druid healing that phase, so a little tip for yours. Use tree form for that phase and you can keep a 3 stack of lifebloom up on everyone along with rejuvs. Toss in a swiftmend for efflo proc and a WG and you have a large amount of steady healing going to get everyone topped off quickly.

As for your shaman, CH spam doesn't seem like the best strategy for 10 man. I think the best strat would be CH to proc tidal waves, then using 2 Greater HWs to get the burst healing up. Keeping riptides up as often as possible before crackles to buff that first chain heal as well.

Also if you're struggling still, you can have any hybrid caster DPS help after crackles. Moonkin tranquility, ele healing rain/CH for a bit, and shadow priest Hymn would all help a ton. If you have a lock, make sure people are saving their health stones for that phase. Also make sure people are using whatever kind of help they can in terms of defensive cooldowns. Barkskin, shadow (or nether) ward, Ice Block, Mana Shield, Dispersion, Barrier, Anti-Magic Zone, etc. If you have more than 1 shaman or a hunter as well, have them glyph Healing Stream totem and turn on Aspect of the Wild (and make sure you have shadow prot from a priest) for that phase. Crackles are nature damage and I believe the bolts are shadowflame, so a priest buff + glyphed totem or pally aura will help a lot for that so make sure you're dividing your group to maximize your 3-4 man group effectiveness. If you have a particular healer struggling, give him a few people that can make it easier on him. As a resto druid, I get the 4 man pillar, so one of the people on there is our blood DK who I barely have to touch. A rejuv on him is plenty with his self healing and AMS.

Luvaria
01-26-2011, 11:37 AM
Oh also, if you need your hunter to have some sort of damage reduction, get him to look into glyph of raptor strike for the second phase.

Vassilly
01-26-2011, 02:30 PM
Gacktt. Phase 2 is really hard for healers on 10 man. No way around it. We had to sub out a druid because he couldn't keep up. Just do everything you can to limit dmg taken. That means shadow protection from priests or paladins and nature protection from shamans or hunters. We spent a night trying to start phase three at 70% we just couldn't do it. There is about a 50/50 chance we lose someone to crackle in phase 2 and have to wipe it even with the strat we use now. As gear improves it will be trivial but I cannot see any raid burning 70% in phase 3 thats just to much.

Kanzer
01-26-2011, 02:39 PM
We had no priest (meaning no SR except for the one pillar with the one pally), and 2 resto druids and a shaman. While its very difficult for healers in that phase in 10 man, and perhaps easier for some classes than others, its not impossible for any of them.

The issue we were running into is killing him before adds became out of control in phase 3, and we determined pushing crackles in phase 2 with our healing comp was just not possible. So we pushed 3 crackles in phase 1, killing ony within 5 seconds after the third so she didn't expload. We then pushed nef down to 62% during phase 2. Your add tank will still likely die before the fight ends, I did at about 6% but if your raid is on the ball with CC's afterward they will buy you the rest of the time you need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4r4IgJyge8 our kill video for referance.

Vassilly
01-26-2011, 03:08 PM
Interesting vid kanzer. Did you use three tanks? It looked like you were tank switching ony.

Kanzer
01-26-2011, 03:10 PM
We used a DPS DK during phase 1 to tank ony temporarily while the other tank rounded up the adds to make them die in one spot. Was purely for add control during phase 3.

coolderka
01-31-2011, 09:07 AM
Actually the Onyxia's ability to kill a raid is Lightning Discharge on wowhead [if someone want to check it], but it's not so important how we call it. :)
Really love the video!

Predakhan
02-01-2011, 10:15 AM
Is there an AOE component to nef's shadowflame barrage is phase 2? A few fellow raiders are insisting there is but I haven't read anything regarding this.

Sky
02-01-2011, 10:20 AM
There is, yes.

gacktt
02-02-2011, 02:12 AM
The shadowflame barrage does not splash, he will target a set amount of people. We tried just stacking together and the damage was the same, ironically it was the same night we pushed for crackles in p2 on 10man and got the kill.

Moora
02-02-2011, 09:29 AM
Hello,

i suggested to try to let a Rogue "Fan of Knives" the Adds in P3 with Crippling Poison, but we´re afraid of the adds beeing to slow and get hit by a Flamethingy.

Anyone has any suggestions regarding that? Thanks.

E: 25 Raid

Āoewin
02-03-2011, 09:54 AM
Hi,

At first sorry my english, it isnt my first language.

I had a question about the normal Nefarian encounter on 10 man difficulty. I'm an holy priest, with Disc as second spec, and I heal with 2 resto druid (sometimes a resto druid and an holy pally but its rare). I'm in charge to heal the raid and helping on Nefarian tank between the Crackle. One of the Druid stay on Ony/adds in p3 tank, while the other stay on Nefarian tank

So my question is, would it be better for me and the raid if I'd go Disc for this, having one of the druid switch duty with me? I could use the Barrier to mitigate some Crackle on CD, Pain supression, Divine aegis the raid and even PW:S some people...

We had some good attempt to P3, but to make it successful, I'd like to know if the Disc/2 resto druid would be better than Holy/2 resto druid.

Thank for your input,

Āoewin

Illidra
02-03-2011, 09:56 AM
in 4.06 by all means go disc, itll eb a less gimped spec and bubbling the raid will help alot with crackle, until then i wouldnt know if the change would pay off.

Āoewin
02-03-2011, 09:58 AM
Thank you :)

Hopefully that drake will go down before 4.0.6 tho.. tonight, who knows?! :)

Nomahd
02-05-2011, 06:42 PM
Question regarding Onyxia's Lightning Charge level.

Have watched numerous videos and read lots of people claiming that if you do not dps her, the levels gain faster. If that is true, what is the appropriate split to reduce her gain? Everywhere I read it says you want Nef at around 73% for p2, or even to push the 3rd crackle and hope Onyxia dies in a few seconds, however currently with our split we are getting nef to around 78% before needing to kill Onyxia. We leave just 5 melee and the OT on her, everyone else on Nef. Is there a more efficient way of doing this? Our guild dps is by no means subpar, the "dps check" parts of Cho'gall and other fights are easily 1 shotted after spending maybe a few hours working on them. We are just starting to broach p3 on nef consistently now that our healers have figured out the 2nd phase, so I am looking for ways to make that phase easier, by needing less dps. Any advice is much appreciated.

This is for 25 man, our comp is 3 tanks, 7 healers, 15 dps. We dont have logs of this fight unforunately :(

xJoba
02-05-2011, 11:02 PM
We had a holy priest, druid and a pally healing with 3 people on each platform except the priest's. We pushed two crackles in the first phase, two in the second phase and dropped his health to 52%. If your heals can manage the two crackles in the second phase, I would definitely recommend doing that, makes for a free kill in the third phase.

Nomahd
02-06-2011, 12:00 PM
Yes thats what we WANT to do, however the charge level on Onyxia Dictates that we push her down around 78% on Nef, and then usually wind up around 62% on the p3 transition. We could push a 2nd crackle in that phase but it would practically coincide with the end of the phase or the respositioning aspect of p3. I am mainly wondering - is it a more accepted tactic to nuke onyxia down to sub 10%, let the tanks whittle her down, and have EVERYONE else on nef? Keeping in mind this is 25 man.

avidan
02-11-2011, 12:59 AM
Was wondering if anyone could clear something up for me. What happens if the adds don't die before the 3minute mark and p3 starts? Do they stop doing their attack and can be ignored or is it a wiped?

Don83
02-13-2011, 04:05 PM
Hi guys,
this topic is really interesting and helpful. Today we had our first 30 tries in 10 man nepharion. We brought him down to 22%. I think we would have downed him if the add reset in phase 3 would have worked.
Now i have some questions:

1. I read about chromatic elixier. So basically it reduces crackle and phase-2 damage by ~14%? And it stacks with other resistance buffs? So we had some discussion in our raid, do you think it is worth to use it for everyone?
----------------------------------------
2. There was a post were it was stated, that after the first fireball and add, the kite tank should wake up the other adds by kiting the living add over the dead adds. So they get waked up by the fire which follows the skeletons, and you only have 30 secs time for doing this. And then the second fireball resets the energy and then you start to kite!

Ooookkk. I did this. But - there was no fire. In our best try i placed two adds over the dead adds, and waited for like 5 seconds and there was no fire at all. So...
no add waked up. And basically when we had neph at ~23% i got smacked down by the adds because they didnt reset.
Our adds are always a bit scattered all over the place in the middle of the room. (4-5 metres between all of them).

So is it possible to wake up all 5 adds in 30 seconds if they are scattered around or do you really HAVE to place all ADDs on 1 spot?!

And how do you manage that all 5 adds are at the exact same spot? We have 2 priests and 1 dudu doing the CC. Any tips?
--------------------------
3. So now about the Shadowblaze. How do you check the time after the first one. Any addon or marko? Is it possible to write a makro which gives a raidwarning after 30, 20, 10 secs and so on...

Would be great if you could give me any tips.

Predakhan
02-13-2011, 08:05 PM
Hi guys,
this topic is really interesting and helpful. Today we had our first 30 tries in 10 man nepharion. We brought him down to 22%. I think we would have downed him if the add reset in phase 3 would have worked.
Now i have some questions:

1. I read about chromatic elixier. So basically it reduces crackle and phase-2 damage by ~14%? And it stacks with other resistance buffs? So we had some discussion in our raid, do you think it is worth to use it for everyone?
----------------------------------------
2. There was a post were it was stated, that after the first fireball and add, the kite tank should wake up the other adds by kiting the living add over the dead adds. So they get waked up by the fire which follows the skeletons, and you only have 30 secs time for doing this. And then the second fireball resets the energy and then you start to kite!

Ooookkk. I did this. But - there was no fire. In our best try i placed two adds over the dead adds, and waited for like 5 seconds and there was no fire at all. So...
no add waked up. And basically when we had neph at ~23% i got smacked down by the adds because they didnt reset.
Our adds are always a bit scattered all over the place in the middle of the room. (4-5 metres between all of them).

So is it possible to wake up all 5 adds in 30 seconds if they are scattered around or do you really HAVE to place all ADDs on 1 spot?!

And how do you manage that all 5 adds are at the exact same spot? We have 2 priests and 1 dudu doing the CC. Any tips?
--------------------------
3. So now about the Shadowblaze. How do you check the time after the first one. Any addon or marko? Is it possible to write a makro which gives a raidwarning after 30, 20, 10 secs and so on...

Would be great if you could give me any tips.

Some earlier mentioned you could use Nef's first fire breath to wake up all the adds at the same time. We haven't done this but it seems a way to get them all together early in phase 3.

Biblical
02-14-2011, 01:53 AM
Was wondering if anyone could clear something up for me. What happens if the adds don't die before the 3minute mark and p3 starts? Do they stop doing their attack and can be ignored or is it a wiped?

Want to know this as well.

Rheinhardt
02-15-2011, 11:47 AM
Don83,

Here are my thoughts on your 3 questions.

1. Chromatic elixirs are great to help you get through phase 2, in 10 man we used them for the healers/dps that were having problems staying alive on their pillar during phase 2. Chromatic elixirs mitigate both the crackles and the shadow flame barrage and make healing for that phase much easier. As far as using them for phase 1 and 3, there shouldn't be that big a need for them.

2. The adds do not spawn fire underneath them as the move, instead the fire slowly follows the closest person with highest threat to any add. For 10 man, with 5 adds you do need to have them die in a decently close proximity. I have seen videos online of frost mages and rogues kiting them into position, I have also seen DK's using blood presence to round them up near the end to make sure they die close together.

Our 10 man uses 2 CC's and rogue to kite the other three, we then break CC toward the end of their life cycle so they clump up effectively.

3. Shadow flame is on a constant timer as stated. Deadly Boss Mod's now has a timer built in for shadow flames. For our first kill before this was available, I used the in game stop watch, and started it right as the first shadowflame hit the ground.


If you got Nef down to 23% without the adds resetting you are very close to a kill (I'd bet you got your kill before you read this post). Getting good placement of the adds in phase 1 is crucial to getting the kite pattern up in phase 3. Also, I saw another post about using crippling poison to slow the adds. That is not necessary during phase 3, and ultimately harmful as it will make them more likely to get hit by shadow flame at the wrong time. It is recommended for a kiter in phase 1, especially on 10 with no tank available to take hits.

abacabb
02-16-2011, 06:53 AM
I'm pretty sure Nef could one shot the Lich King...just sayin...

Indoril
02-16-2011, 10:02 AM
What happens if the adds don't die before the 3minute mark and p3 starts? Do they stop doing their attack and can be ignored or is it a wipe?

From last night testing, if phase 3 starts and the adds are still alive it's pretty much a wipe unless they go down in seconds. They will not cease casting, so interrupting is needed, but if you stay on platform after Nefy lands, you're going to die pretty fast due to him casting Shadow of Cowardice (30000 Shadowflame dmg + 100% Shadow dmg taken - stacks) on you.
So make sure you got enough dps on each platform to kill the adds before the 3 minute mark.

avidan
02-17-2011, 01:37 AM
From last night testing, if phase 3 starts and the adds are still alive it's pretty much a wipe unless they go down in seconds. They will not cease casting, so interrupting is needed, but if you stay on platform after Nefy lands, you're going to die pretty fast due to him casting Shadow of Cowardice (30000 Shadowflame dmg + 100% Shadow dmg taken - stacks) on you.
So make sure you got enough dps on each platform to kill the adds before the 3 minute mark.


Thanks for the info!

psathyanhome
02-17-2011, 12:52 PM
I haven't done the fight quite yet (this week prob) but according to Wowhead the adds are level 85 and have the ability http://www.wowhead.com/spell=81586.

yes the bone spell i sused only if there is no one inside the pit where ony is. say for example one person in ur raid jumps inside the pit before anyone else is ready and the rest of the raid remains on top. as soon the person who jumped in dies and once there is no one in melee range for the adds to hit they will start shooting the bones and trust me they are nasty. u cannot bubble through it,.. it kills u any way unless u manage to outrun and take the elevator and run all th way out of instance.

psathyanhome
02-17-2011, 01:00 PM
Question: did anyone encounter this on p1? Ony gains 20% in her exploding bar every time a crackle happens,. I can conform this happenned on our 25 man last night. We saw her jumping from 45% to 75% and then on another pull she jumped from 75% to 95% even though we had all range on onyxia. so after a couple of pulls we had to adjust ourself for 40% in her exploding bar for just 2 crackle and nuke her before the rest of her 60% fills up. This was particularly difficult cos even a slight miss calculation on dpsing here and pushing 2 crackle before she is dead will result in here explosion :(

This increase in energy bar is not because of lack of dps on her for sure. Can someone tell me if this is a part of mechanics on 25 man or is it bugged still?

Hnetto
02-18-2011, 04:39 AM
We started doing this encounter this wednesday, yesterday we managed to get phase 1 under control, but when we get to phase 2 everything seems to go to hell pretty fast.

We all manage to get to our pilars and get all the interrupts as soon as they start casting. The problem comes when we try to push for a crackle. As soon as the crackle hits mostly we see 2 or 3 deaths right after, even considering we have everyone topped off right before it.

One of our healers said they read somewhere that there is a small AoE from shadow barrage, something like 3 yards, and that we should spread out on the platform. Is this correct?

Is it possible to do phase 3 when getting 2 crackles in phase 1 and none on phase 2?

Is there anything we can do to try and reduce the damage we take from shadow barrage aside from prismatic elixers and Mirror of Broken Images?

I would like any advice you guys can give for this fight. Thanks in advance.

Indoril
02-19-2011, 04:15 AM
Ony gains 20% in her exploding bar every time a crackle happens..
...even a slight miss calculation on dpsing here and pushing 2 crackle before she is dead will result in her explosion

From my experience, it is not 20%, more like 17-18%, but yes, it's not something you can ignore, you should always have it in mind. It is a mechanic of the fight, not a bug.
Also, if you get problems getting a 2nd crackle in ph 1, you must be quite low on raid dps. The possibility of her exploding made us think about pushing or not a 3rd crackle.. Why don't you try to start with all dps on her, stopping at 12% of her health then everyone switching to Nef? It will be easier to control her death (tank dmg alone should get her to 3-4%) and decide whether or not to push another crackle.


@ Hnetto
The crackles in ph 2 are a delicate matter, what we do is push one as soon as 2 prototypes are down and the raid is topped with people using cooldowns (barkskin, raidbubble etc), dps Nef for another 7-8%, wait for 1 minute without killing the remaining add (so cooldowns like barkskin, AMS are refreshed) and push the second crackle, with people assisting by Divine Hymn, Tranquility etc. Mirror of Broken Images is also OP in preventing deaths (it's not absolutely necessairy, but whoever tells it's a tank-only trinket is ignorant in my book)
About going into ph3 with only 2 crackles.. It's gonna be hell for your kite-tank and his healer. It is not impossible, but it will need perfect "kiting" and very good cooldown management, adds stepping once in fire and it's game over for you. If you cannot do with the 2 crackles in ph 2, try pushing at least one, using all cooldowns, we've killed him with 3 in the past

About Shadowflame barrage AoE component, I personally think it's a myth that originates from the spell's visual effect, I've heard people insisting there is a 2y AoE, others saying there is none. To be on the safe side, we are not standing on top of each other, but I do not believe it is true. If someone can confirm/deny it with proof, I'll edit out these lines asap.

acruxis
02-20-2011, 09:38 AM
Hi,
i've created an addon based on the information in this thread:
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/killneffy.aspx

This is an add-on that helps you the raid-leader to do the following during Nefarian BWD 10 man non-heroic:
(1) Keeping track of Onyxia's alternate power bar and Nefarian and Onyxia's health levels
(2) Marking the Animated Bone Warriors automatically when you target them.

(3) Keeping track of the stacks of Empower buffs and cc's (snares, slows, and binds) on the Animated Bone Warriors
(4) Shows the actual or estimated (in blue) power bar remaining on the Animated Bone Warriors. The estimate is used when it cannot be read directly as the mob is not being targeted by a player. It assumes that the energy bar has not been refilled since the last time it was read (i.e. not hit by the Shadowblaze or shadow breath).
(5) Counts the time to the next Shadowblaze in P3 (no combat log events so quite hard to time)
(6) Shows who the adds attacked in the last 3 seconds (useful to see who has aggro)
(7) Shows the time in seconds since each phase started (e.g. Phase 2 has 3 min cutoff). Phase 2's clock starts with Onyxia dies. Phase 3's clock starts 10s before the first Shadowblaze Spark.


Tips
Phase 1:
- Ensure that all adds are being cc'd and not free to beat up on your healers. Some groups may use a third tank. Fear may not be a good idea because you want them to die together for phase 3 and because they may get into the shadowflame breath.
- Do not let the adds near the bosses because their shadowflame breath will reset their energy bar. If they do not get hit by the shadowflame breath, they should die in 50 seconds or around 12 stacks of the Empower buff.
Phase 2:
- Can last up to 3 min. You may want to use as much time to let your healers regain mana.
Phase 3:
- Timing here is crucial. Again the adds should die around 50 seconds or 12 stacks of the Empower buff if they do not get hit by the Shadowblaze Spark, Shadowflame Breath or Shadowblaze. Since the Shadowblaze Sparks come at 30, 55, 75, 90, 100, 110, 120, 130 seconds marks there should be two 5 second intervals where the adds are dead and the second tank isn't taking any damage (i.e. 50 - 55s, 105 - 110s). Thereafter there aren't any more damage-free windows.
Alternatively you may want to make sure they are in the fire at 7s (resetting their energy bar). They would die at 57 seconds (assuming you avoid the Shadowblazes on the ground and two Shadowblaze Sparks), giving you 57 seconds to 75 seconds damage-free. The next damage-free window is 125s - 130s and so on.

GideonJura
02-21-2011, 07:41 AM
About Shadowflame barrage AoE component, I personally think it's a myth that originates from the spell's visual effect, I've heard people insisting there is a 2y AoE, others saying there is none. To be on the safe side, we are not standing on top of each other, but I do not believe it is true. If someone can confirm/deny it with proof, I'll edit out these lines asap.

According to the logs i have from my 25 man trys it always targets 10 random ppl and the dmg is pretty much the same to each so i'm almost sure there's no splash dmg involved.

We're trying to push 2 crackles in p2 but healers are having a bad time to keep ppl up, how are you guys handeling the crackles in p2?

klausi
02-21-2011, 08:04 AM
0-1 is enough, depending on your setup and (self)cooldowns avaible. Shorten p2 should save your healers tons of mana and if your kiting tank does his job well there's no reason to worry about risky p2 pushes whatsoever.

Splash was present during beta, has been removed since release due to organizing 7-8 people plus gazillions of pets was to hard.

Yoakie
02-22-2011, 06:01 AM
Dealing with crackling (electrocute) is kinda tricky as people noted previously. You need to not only top people off just before it happens, you also need to use available cooldowns.

We noticed it helps a lot to have a discipline priest with Power-barrier to help with electrocute in phase 2. It works wonders to have a lightwell ready and let people use it just before electrocute happen (let people use bandage and healtstones here). If they die it is mainly their fault. Nobody should instantly die of it.

For people having difficulties with phase 2 and 3 I advise them to also take a look at http://25man.com/cata-guides/nefarian which is a pretty nice guide for this fight. Hope it works out!

tigo
02-28-2011, 04:00 AM
i've just got a quick question..

does anyone know who hits harder between the three of these?

Onyxia, Nefarian, and the reanimated adds in p3.

i'm trying to adjust our assignments so i can take the hardest hitting ones (since i'm the best geared in our guild).

many thanks!

Fetzie
03-01-2011, 08:18 PM
I would say that it depends:

Nefarian is definitely the hardest hitter of the three followed by Onyxia and the adds. However, in P3 you are tanking/kiting 5 adds that are getting progressively stronger, up to the point that they are hitting extremely hard given that there are five of them if you do not handle them well. One single add will not kill someone until it's frenzy is stacked pretty high, but 5 adds landing a hit at the same time that lightning machine hits can be extremely dangerous.

Kvelertak
03-08-2011, 08:47 AM
Our healers are struggling alot with their mana in phase3, we are doing this on 10man
Our closest try has been at around 23%, but then all healers were oom and all i heard was "ur gonna die", and well.. we died.

So what can we do to help ourselves keeping mana up for the entire fight? Our adds have been bad, and been all around the room, so if we can fix this i guess that would help.
Is there anything else we can do to get more or use less mana?

Stompyomouf
03-08-2011, 05:12 PM
What healers are you using? One thing you might not be doing is grouping up. Everyone except the two tanks and the OT healer should be grouped up. Another thing we found is that mana in P2 wasnt nearly as bad if we interrupted EVERY add cast without fail. How many crackles are you pushing in P1 and P2? Posting logs always helps :)

spicegirl
03-09-2011, 01:43 AM
Well is it 10 or 25 man?

Yesterday we had an off raid, that I couldn't attend. So my guild moved to BWD at nefarian.

The group setup was this: http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c=d66eepasjn000000000000000000000000000000

The group was not the best one, would be better with a Priest healer istead of 2 druids and a warrior tank istead of 2 pallas.

I hope this helped you.

smep
03-13-2011, 06:56 AM
so my first time here was after we got Atramedes and Chimaeron in much less time than we anticipated, so for S&G we went after Nef and he roflstomped our faces in. Last night however, I joined a friend's group that needed one more on my DK, and I have some tips about the pull!

As a frost DK, I was able to completely and easily handle the adds in P1 with no outside cooldowns. Go blood presence on the pull. Put up diseases, and blood strike twice for the death runes. Then, as the adds spawn, literally a CoI on each will slow them and the tick will outthreat any heals going on. CoI the first, the second, the third, and then the 1st again. Literally I wasn't taking damage until Ony tail-swiped me. For the last two, just taunt/grip whatev. Then when they're all on you, DS on CD (BT is fine, but don't ERW). IBF about 5 seconds into the final add reaching you. When that's up, HC and they're all frozen. You'll have about 3 seconds of one of the adds hitting you, which is fine, then pop into frost and go beat on Nef.

Tsy
03-16-2011, 08:09 AM
We started doing this encounter this wednesday, yesterday we managed to get phase 1 under control, but when we get to phase 2 everything seems to go to hell pretty fast.

We all manage to get to our pilars and get all the interrupts as soon as they start casting. The problem comes when we try to push for a crackle. As soon as the crackle hits mostly we see 2 or 3 deaths right after, even considering we have everyone topped off right before it.

One of our healers said they read somewhere that there is a small AoE from shadow barrage, something like 3 yards, and that we should spread out on the platform. Is this correct?

Is it possible to do phase 3 when getting 2 crackles in phase 1 and none on phase 2?


We're having the same issues with the 10 man version of this fight. We get Nef to 71-74% in phase1, kill ony, then head to our assigned pillars. However, once we get atop the pillars, we don't last very long.

We had been doing the encounter with 2 pally tanks, and each tank was using a Divine Guardian for the the first two Crackles, and it was a night and day difference. However, now I think we may be better served saving one of the cooldowns for the start of phase2, at least until things get stable. As an alternative, we do have an Aura Mastery CD that we could use to reduce some of the Shadowflame Barrage.

I'll have to look through the logs to see if we were getting our interrupts out - there's just so much damage going that I'm sure some Blast Waves hit us.

I don't really see how we could push a Crackle (much less 2) in phase 2 and live through the fight. It almost seems like it would be easier to push 3 in phase 1 and none in phase 2.

Goom
03-16-2011, 09:15 PM
Question regarding p1 adds:

My raid has killed nef a few times before with using a frost dk kiting the adds in p1 and he has had no problem, this week our dk had to stop playing for RL stuff and we're now forced to not have a dps dk.

Our set up is:
1 tank dk
1 tank war
1 heal shaman
1 heal pally
1 heal druid
2 hunters
1 lock
1 rogue
1 balance druid

Tonight we tried to have one of the hunters kite them in p1 and it just didn't go too well, he was generally able to get aggro but went splat if they ever caught up with him.

I came here hoping to get any tips from people who haven't used a dk or mage to kite them, or a 3rd tank to tank them, on 10 man.

Kinch
03-17-2011, 09:56 AM
Looks like you should have enough to CC them. Hunters trap/pet tank can get 4 out of 5 at least. Root from the boomkin, lock has a pet.

snifit
03-18-2011, 10:29 PM
On 10-man, our hunter uses a turtle pet to tank all 5 skeletons.

Timeblader
03-19-2011, 02:37 PM
My guild seems to be having trouble with the adds in ph1 (our person kiting/tanking the adds dies) and the start in ph2.

Make up:

Dk tank
Pally tank

Holy priest
Holy pally
Resto shammy

Ret pally
Shadow Priest
Fire(or frost) mage
Boomkin
MM (or Survial) hunter

I have to ask, is a frost mage really that good for the ph1 adds? Also because my guild doesn't seem to want to try because of ph3 (which we have yet to get to) is the frost mage going to cut the damage needed?

For ph2, anyone have any tips for our healers on managing the first 15-20 seconds?

klausi
03-19-2011, 03:04 PM
You got some decent cc there, why don't you use it?

Shackle (2x)
Root
Trap
Fear Undead

And why do you have troubles with the start of phase 2? Everyone is topped off before and unless all fail at the pillars there shouldn't be much more then 4-6 magma stacks average plus some shadow barrages to heal through.

We kited them with a frostmage on 10s, too. But he died from time to time.. You can try use your boomkin or your ret pally to actually tank/kite them with the aid of a frosttrap and a ring of frost it's very manageable. You just need to find a position where neither both dragon's tail/breath nor Onyxia's electro thingy can hit them.

Āoewin
03-21-2011, 07:50 AM
My guild seems to be having trouble with the adds in ph1 (our person kiting/tanking the adds dies) and the start in ph2.

Make up:

Dk tank
Pally tank

Holy priest
Holy pally
Resto shammy

Ret pally
Shadow Priest
Fire(or frost) mage
Boomkin
MM (or Survial) hunter

I have to ask, is a frost mage really that good for the ph1 adds? Also because my guild doesn't seem to want to try because of ph3 (which we have yet to get to) is the frost mage going to cut the damage needed?

For ph2, anyone have any tips for our healers on managing the first 15-20 seconds?

Have your ret pally put on a shield and a one hander and have him tank the adds, assign one of the healer to hilm, and you should be fine (dont forget righteous fury to tank than remove it when go back to dps...).

We tried several times to kite and/or CC, adds would always give us trouble. Than we had our DK unholy going in Blood presence to tank the add and we never had any problem after that. Your dps "offtank" will need some big heal - use CD, ask for Ring of Frost - but it is really easy that way. Plus, you can control where they will die, making it easier on phase 3.

Aegrassa
03-22-2011, 03:56 PM
Done him today in 10ppl surprisingly easy. The setup was:

Tanks: paladin (me), DK
Healers: shaman, priest (holy), druid
DPS: mage, shaman (enh), hunter, warlock (destr), druid (feral).

DK tanked Nef all the time, paladin tanked Ony in P1 and adds in P3. Priest was healing DK, shaman - paladin, druid - raid

In P1 our feral did most of the work in bearform. About 40% adds energy mage did frost ring to hold on adds, then druid held them all in center, trying to group up their corpses.
We did 3 lighting strikes in P1, destruction warlock helps a lot, since 20% of his damage goes to Ony. Mage stayed on Ony almost all of the time while everyone else DPSed Nef; we spent about 3 or 4 tries to find perfect balance, but finally managed to kill Ony right after 3rd lighting is about to cast.

Most of the problems were in P2, especially in the beginning. Holy priest put a lightwell and thus could maintain a platform with 4 ppl. The main point of this phase is to jump up the platform asap and interrupt all the adds in the same time. You just have to work up the habit, that's all. We did no lighting strikes in this phase and landed Nef with about 62%.

P3 was the easiest to handle. If all of the adds die grouped in P1, or at least in 2 different locations, you just have to follow described timing tactic. This way you give your healer 10sec rest, and if your DPS team will discharge a lighting strike at this time, OT can survive without burning any CDs. Resistance trinket from TB is essential for OT at this phase; our MT used it too. After adds die and res, OT should just kite them; at this time, he can slow, stun, etc, anything to survive, because most likely they won't die again - DPS will kill Nef or healer will go oom sooner.

So, this is our recipe. If you'll do everything right in P1 and survive through P2, then this fight is piece of cake. It took 3 tries in P3 for me to learn the fight. Good luck :)

smep
03-23-2011, 07:11 PM
Anyone else having issues with threat during the encounter? despite 100k threat leads, the bosses and adds are turning and beating on a target until they die, much like the adds in P2 of Maloriak. Anyone else feeling it?

We figured it out... He was beating people in the face if they had Levitate on. I'm not even lying, it was levitate

Aegrassa
03-25-2011, 07:08 AM
I guess that threat issues can appear with nowadays tank gearing. I have hit and exp cap, but during my inspections on armory I realized that most of the tanks ignore the caps, preferring to switch to a more aggro-generating than surviving build, and thus leave too much work to healers. I don't want to say that this point is totally useless, no; but you should take in consideration your tank and healers gear/skill and put more stress on the strongest link in chain.

Daimon
03-25-2011, 12:12 PM
Of how many adds are we talking about in 10m? would be terrible to have 1 of the tanks holding the adds while tanking either Nef or Onyxia in p1?

snifit
03-25-2011, 08:47 PM
There's already an answer to your first question in the thread. Your Nef/Ony tanks shouldn't be tanking the skeleton adds in P1, as the dragons' breath refreshes the energy on the skeletons.

Danksz
03-27-2011, 10:28 PM
10 man nef
having trouble with phase 3; multiple issues. few questions for anyone experienced with the encounter:

is it realistic to handle the adds properly if it takes 2 or 3 flames to activate them all? they arent dropping in a single pile from phase 1 and Im having hell trying to gather adds while keep the first group(s) out of fire. if they dont all get activated until say the 3rd or4th flame it seems nearly impossible for me to do my job successfully.

and why in gods name do they make a beeline for the raid when they reactivate after their first reset in phase 3? is this a bug .

really frustrating. we did get our first kill last week but this week will reset w/o nef down.

any advice is appreciated.

Aegrassa
03-28-2011, 06:04 AM
I'd say this is more likely problems in P1. You should stack all adds in a mixmum of 2 piles, feral DPS druid or frost DK are greatest for this. They can taunt/grip all of adds on them just before their death and survive under damage reduction CDs.

Anyway, if you can't res all the adds with 2 flames, I'd advice to continue the mentioned tactic for all adds you could res with 2 first flames, and just taunt all extra adds. Thus you will get some adds down and still give your healer ~10s of easy work.

Any ressed adds have their aggro table cleared, so they will most likely run into the healer group. You should be about 25y near them to taunt them even if they'll try to run away.

Good luck :)

smep
03-29-2011, 03:13 AM
@Danks

This is the problem we were having with weird aggro during our attempts. As soon as we stopped levitating pre-pull, no more weird issues. Still, to counter it, we had our P1 add-tank (warrior) get BoP'd at the beginning of P3 to drop aggro.

Zaitochi
04-12-2011, 10:12 PM
I'm having huge issues dealing with the adds in Phase 3 25man.

I'm either kiting them too fast or too slow because everytime I do phase 3 the adds always get hit by shadowblaze.

I have 2 healers assisting me and the other OT (DK/Pally/Warrior depends on our current raid makeup).

What I try to do is move the adds after the Shadowblaze timer is up but its a hit or miss. I'm also shockwaving whenever I can but I don't get any more assistance after that since I dont want the adds to be sitting in the fire. Its also incredibly hard to see the fire as Phase 3 goes on I know its pink and all but with a dark room it blends in too well..

klausi
04-13-2011, 01:21 AM
When the timer hit ~2s and they're slowed (piercing howl, earthbind totem, you name it) start moving them, if not start at ~1s. Don't you dare backpedal, strafe! And time your shockwave so they don't end up getting hit by Shadowblaze during a stun.

Fetzie
04-13-2011, 01:56 AM
If you are doing the "tank nef in the centre and kite around the edge of the room" strategy, don't forget to warn the boss tank when you need the boss turned to avoid his breath hitting the adds..

Doose
04-13-2011, 03:49 AM
Hey yo,

we defeated Nefarian at yesterday night.

Setup was.: 2 warriors tanks
2 DKs (both dps, but one tanking adds at phase 1)
1 Rouge
1 Mage
4 Healers (2x Druid, shaman, Pally) , because we had bad wipes at heal...

in phase one we done 2crackles, mage stay at onyxia

second phase we done pillars > 1) warrior,shaman, rouge 2) dk, pally, warrior 3) druid,rouge, mage, druid ( druids use inervate on each other [glyphed])

third phase i was OT adds... i got druid at me and he was allerting me 3 secs before flame to move( that was because i didnt wanted to have flames everywhere so i ran only few yards of last flame...) i despawned mobs 4 times and at the end i needed to 2 heals at me before neff was gone but worked well

GL & HF at your progress guys

Zaitochi
04-13-2011, 07:16 PM
If you are doing the "tank nef in the centre and kite around the edge of the room" strategy, don't forget to warn the boss tank when you need the boss turned to avoid his breath hitting the adds..

We tank Nef on the edge of the room so when it comes to kiting the adds I can only go back and forth with the room that I have available which also means I need to avoid the head/tail. Pretty much I have a semi-circle to play with but the Shadowblaze spreads really fast..

Takethecake
04-15-2011, 12:46 PM
Question about p2 25 man. Is their any definitive answer about the aoe in pillar phase? I'm wondering if it would be more healer friendly to stack 1 pillar with as many healers and people as possible. Possibly have a priest healer + 2melee + tank + 1 ranged dps (pref shadow priest/boomkin for reduced damage or shaman for 100% overlapping interrupts) on each of two pillars... then stack the remaining 15 people (1 tank, 5-6 healers, and 8-9 dps) on the last pillar to maximize aoe healing and raid cooldowns.

Pipe
04-16-2011, 06:35 PM
We tank Nef on the edge of the room so when it comes to kiting the adds I can only go back and forth with the room that I have available which also means I need to avoid the head/tail. Pretty much I have a semi-circle to play with but the Shadowblaze spreads really fast..

We use this strat too, however I feel like the stars have to align in order for a clean P3. The adds never seem to die together, so it takes multiple shadowblazes to res them. Another issue is when Nef decides to shadowblaze at the alive adds instead of the dead ones, meaning I typically have to kite dangerously close to the fire to pick up the new adds, or risk them running off. If all goes well I can get 2 full resets and a clean kill, however if this doesn't happen, P3 is total cluster Ffff and we barely make the kill. Does anyone have any better advice? Does tanking Nef in the center of the room in P3 make the phase a lot easier?

Hnetto
04-16-2011, 07:26 PM
We use this strat too, however I feel like the stars have to align in order for a clean P3. The adds never seem to die together, so it takes multiple shadowblazes to res them. Another issue is when Nef decides to shadowblaze at the alive adds instead of the dead ones, meaning I typically have to kite dangerously close to the fire to pick up the new adds, or risk them running off. If all goes well I can get 2 full resets and a clean kill, however if this doesn't happen, P3 is total cluster Ffff and we barely make the kill. Does anyone have any better advice? Does tanking Nef in the center of the room in P3 make the phase a lot easier?

How close are your adds dying in phase 1? Usually when the adds die in the right position they all get ressed by one shadowblaze. However the lack of one add in the pile does not make much diference. Normally if one or two adds do not get ressed at the start i pick them up when they get ressed. When the rest of the adds deactivate i will keep on tanking the remaining adds that did not deactivate on top of those who already did. That way the next shadowblaze will reactivate the ones on the floor and reset the ones on you. That way all of them will start this next wave with the same amount of energy and you can deactive all at the same time the second time around.

On other hand, if you are tanking in the, you can just keep kiting/tanking around the room, you will have enough room to move then around even if not all of them deactivate at the same time.

Grakzul Slaughtbringer
04-18-2011, 06:03 AM
I had hard times tanking the adds in P3. We were two prot warriors.

First problem we had is about picking the adds. How do you handle this? basically we had a good stack of corpses, as they were rezed we tried to pick them up but we always ended with one tank having 8-10 adds and the other only 2 or 3. So we had to pick them up manually with taunts and this was no piece of cake because of the kitting...

Would it be better to have only one tank taking all the adds and the second offtank just assisting in case the former dies?

I've been wiping on this boss for weeks now...he's clearly the hardest atm. And we do not put him on P3 on every attempt, so I'm afraid I'll have many tries to do a perfect P3 :(

Zaitochi
04-21-2011, 12:23 AM
I had hard times tanking the adds in P3. We were two prot warriors.

First problem we had is about picking the adds. How do you handle this? basically we had a good stack of corpses, as they were rezed we tried to pick them up but we always ended with one tank having 8-10 adds and the other only 2 or 3. So we had to pick them up manually with taunts and this was no piece of cake because of the kitting...

Would it be better to have only one tank taking all the adds and the second offtank just assisting in case the former dies?

I've been wiping on this boss for weeks now...he's clearly the hardest atm. And we do not put him on P3 on every attempt, so I'm afraid I'll have many tries to do a perfect P3 :(

Its better to choose one guy to pick up all the adds lets say you and have your other tank gain secondary threat in case you die from all the adds smacking you. Also when the adds die after not touching flames have your OT keep an eye out for loose adds, you can also designate him to be your pointman for when you should move for Shadowblaze. I now know how to watch for the Shadowblaze whenever you see a blue flame orb landing at a spot thats where the Shadowblaze will land to revive or repower the adds, having a point man spot that for you can help at least for me it does since I'm one of the only 2 Prot warriors in our guild =(

klausi
04-21-2011, 01:06 AM
If you reset them properly you can tank them all, ask for an external cooldowns near the end and use shockwave intelligently. You'll spike to 15k dps including electrocute occassionally but that's it. With 2 healers on you and a third for backup it's no really problem at all.

Grakzul Slaughtbringer
04-24-2011, 02:10 AM
We finally killed Nefarian in 10 man mode. I did not have much problems kitting the adds in P3, but you're right : having someone announcing the shadowblazes is a HUGE help.
I'll try again in 25man next week. I did not know it was possible to tank all the adds with a single warrior in phase 3, so I'll try to do better. Thanks guys. :)

Zaitochi
04-24-2011, 05:18 PM
I've yet to perfect the adds in 25man although in P1 I get them to die in the same area for pickup in P3 but it would be better if I clumped them up properly lol

I'm still having issues pickup them back up in p3 after they die and reset seems like half of them are still up and the other half go dead =/

smep
04-25-2011, 05:35 AM
Zaitochi, it's for that reason that I chose to have a plate-DPS tank those adds in P1. They die in a cute little bunch, so that one shadowblaze always revives them all. I felt there was too much craziness if we tried CC'ing/kiting them.

Zaitochi
04-25-2011, 03:26 PM
Yeah we don't use 2 tanks for Nef still using 3 and our guild tanks make sure that every tank knows what to do on each phase and how to do them. We put newer tanks on Ony since she is the easiest to tank and learn. As for adds I found them really complex but as a warrior tank I can abuse Vigilance for taunt spams and I have enough tools to grab all the adds in phase 1 although have a hunter Multi-shot MD helps too.

bpheater
04-25-2011, 10:37 PM
Is this not available for download?

bpheater
04-25-2011, 11:39 PM
Nevermind found it ;).

Herbnosis
05-07-2011, 08:49 PM
I don't think it's been said yet, so I apologize if it has and I missed it.

Phase 2 lasts three minutes (according to the video or another post), but Phase 2 will end "prematurely" if the last pillar add drops to 30% of its health (at least on 10 man). If you're doing well in P2 and want to push another crackle, keep in mind this limitation.

I accidentally posted this in the H Nefarian thread first, and apparently this is NOT the case on Heroic--once one of them dies, P3 starts. However, on several attempts in normal, we killed two of the platform adds and kept the third one up to push another crackle.

Securicor
05-10-2011, 02:14 PM
Hello everyone, I've been searching the net for the answer to my question, but I cannot seem to find it.
Will the Bone Warriors in p1 and p3 be affected(frozen) by the frost Death Knight ability Hungering Cold(http://www.wowhead.com/spell=49203)?

Even if your not 100 % sure, but have some thoughts on how it might work, then please, share! ;)

Thanks in advance.

Toushiro
05-10-2011, 09:38 PM
they can be frozen by hungering cold.

Giliandrix
05-11-2011, 07:04 AM
I don't think it's been said yet, so I apologize if it has and I missed it.

Phase 2 lasts three minutes (according to the video or another post), but Phase 2 will end "prematurely" if the last pillar add drops to 30% of its health (at least on 10 man). If you're doing well in P2 and want to push another crackle, keep in mind this limitation.

I accidentally posted this in the H Nefarian thread first, and apparently this is NOT the case on Heroic--once one of them dies, P3 starts. However, on several attempts in normal, we killed two of the platform adds and kept the third one up to push another crackle.

What???? In Regular at least, phase 2 ends when ALL of the adds are dead, or 3 minutes have passed.

Krulz
05-18-2011, 03:22 AM
Hey there and thank you for all this awesome vids.
Now to the point^^.

We are trying to kill Nef 10 men, we handle everything perfect.
Phase 1: dk with adds, all die in the same spot(2cracks usually maybe 3)
Phase 2: No problems here usually(sometimes jump related but usually fine)(0 or 1 crack)
Phase 3: All goes perfect till 15 % then always our Warrior Prot tank tanking the adds die due the fire doesn't de-spawn, he have a really good dedicated pala healer with him , rest of the raid its on the side stacked.

So tips for the kitting as a warrior Prot or shall we have 2 healers on him and just a druid with the raid? Or maybe the raid should move from time to time so our warrior have more room for the kite?

Thank you!

klausi
05-18-2011, 05:44 AM
So tips for the kitting as a warrior Prot or shall we have 2 healers on him and just a druid with the raid? Or maybe the raid should move from time to time so our warrior have more room for the kite?
Instead of kiting just tank them and move around only a few yards right before the next shadowblaze hits (~2s remaining on timer). This way you only have to watch out for pillars (line of sight healing issues) and enough room to have the fire despawn all the time even if you push all crackles during phase 3.

You'll only need assistance of a second healer if the adds are near death (sub 30ish energy) or you didn't reset them properly, the rest of the time the healer can keep camp/maintank up.

Krulz
05-18-2011, 07:36 AM
Instead of kiting just tank them and move around only a few yards right before the next shadowblaze hits (~2s remaining on timer). This way you only have to watch out for pillars (line of sight healing issues) and enough room to have the fire despawn all the time even if you push all crackles during phase 3.

You'll only need assistance of a second healer if the adds are near death (sub 30ish energy) or you didn't reset them properly, the rest of the time the healer can keep camp/maintank up.

Very kind!We ll try it!

shakesula1
05-21-2011, 09:04 AM
Im a warlock and for some reason my glyphed fear isn't working on the adds in a norm 10-man. every time i use it, theyre immune. I tried it like 10 times before i just gave up. anybody else having the same problem?

Theotherone
05-23-2011, 07:17 AM
Our raid group took our first Nef shots last night, I was healing on my pally and had the Nef tank - although we never got out of phase one in our 5 attempts, I have to say not a lot of love for the healers in this fight.

We'll get it, but when one of our tanks, who's beaten the fight, said "it's a fun fight... except if you're a healer" and laughed, I think it was an understatement.

Meshuggah
05-23-2011, 07:30 AM
It is definitely a drain on our healers. I throw down an instant Healing Rain on the Nef tank every other maelstrom weapon. Every little bit helps. :D Hopefully you'll get some love and down that bastard. Nef was my bane for weeks!!!

lfender
06-16-2011, 05:04 PM
I'd like to add that Psychic Scream and Psychic Horror are *NOT* ways that you can cc these adds. They were immune to them when I tried to cc them on my Priest. Thankfully, we have a shackle or two and a couple of traps. We'll probably just have one of our plate dps tank them to one side of the room rather than cc'ing the you-know-what out of them.

Theotherone
06-17-2011, 06:53 AM
Got to phase three last week. We're getting there. I moved to healing the Ony tank. Progression, progression, progression - hopefully this week we get him.

Reev
06-17-2011, 08:05 AM
Finally killed him last night, WOOT!

What made the difference for me was following Aggathon's advice.

P1: Ony far east, Ned far west, both facing south. Drop the adds as far north as possible clumped as well as you can.

P2: preshield as many people as you can getting onto the pillars

P3: tank Nef in center, pick up adds and move around the outside clockwise, turning Nef along with. DPS an healers on the opposite side of the dragon from the add tank. Add tank healer stays ahead of the add tank at all times.

Managed to interrupt the adds 3 times, and I felt like I could have kept it going all night. :-)

Theotherone
06-17-2011, 08:19 AM
^ Grats, mon.

Toriator
06-17-2011, 08:49 AM
We downed him, have to say almost everyone already had him down and we are progression on HC modes, but it was my first time and we did a different tactic, wich worked great and one shotted him

We started in phase1, just like always, but me(paladin tank) took onyxia and the other tank took the adds and nef. no crackles just nuke onyxia, takes less then a minute, in phase 2, kill the adds asap, and in phase 3 nuke Nefarian from 100 to 0. Make sure to time your cds for crackle and I've tanked nef in the middle and made sure the tail and breath didn't hit the kiter. Worked great

Narina
06-24-2011, 12:33 AM
I have to say, the comments for this encounter were extremely helpful. This fight went from insanely anxiety building to actually pretty easy.

One comment I have to add which made this fight INSANELY easier for us is to use 4 healers. It really takes all the strain off the healers and this fight is not a DPS race at all, it actually helped to spread out the crackles by only having 4 dps.

Our strat was 2 crackles in p1 (simply because they became easy to handle with 4 healers, but it's really not needed to push any crackle before p3). I healed our Ony tank solo, 2 healers on Nef tank, 1 on raid (mostly on our DK add kiter).

2 healers on the platform with 4 people in p2 (I think it helps to have the solo Ony tank on the 4 person platform because that will likely be the healer with the least mana)

p3 - Nef in the center, kite adds around the outside. As said many times in these threads, you can wait to push all crackles here easily. Big Wigs definitely helped our add tank (better timers). Our best 2 healers stood on the raid/Nef tank, other 2 on add tank.

SkyIsDLimit
06-27-2011, 09:46 PM
Our guild went for one last "try" into getting nef monday night b4 patch. (No Luck, Which might be why I am here trying to get some info on how to deal with the major problem with have).

Problem: in p2, while we are on the pillars, nef does the 1st subsequent cruckle, fine...we survive. But when he does the next cruckle, which according to how the guild leader strats are about to getting this done, this is the 4th cruckle, and even though the whole raid is full on hp (full health), the 4th cruckle wipes the entire group.

Questions#1: Could it be our gear? Ofcourse, gear will always be the issue, but can some1 throw in average for the entire group.
Questions#2: What can we do with the cruckle? It continues to wipe us specifically at that moment...it seems that we cannot escape it.

Help.

Toriator
06-28-2011, 02:42 AM
I don't know how well geared you are, so i can't say something about that

But about the crackles, try this tactic: Push ony to 0% in phase 1, don't touch nef (only tank). Phase 2. Kill the adds asap, don't touch nef (or till just before the crackle). Then just kill nef from 100 to 0. Tank tanks nef in middle, other tank kites the adds around, the nef tank makes sure he turn nef accordingly to the other tanks movement , so the add tank dont get hit my tail/breath.

Fetzie
06-28-2011, 04:24 AM
Then don't do a second P2 Crackle? you only need to do two crackles in P2 if you are going for the Glory of the raider achievement (Nef below 50% when P3 begins). We have never pushed a crackle in P2.

superjawes
07-18-2011, 11:07 PM
I have to say, the comments for this encounter were extremely helpful. This fight went from insanely anxiety building to actually pretty easy.

One comment I have to add which made this fight INSANELY easier for us is to use 4 healers. It really takes all the strain off the healers and this fight is not a DPS race at all, it actually helped to spread out the crackles by only having 4 dps.

Our strat was 2 crackles in p1 (simply because they became easy to handle with 4 healers, but it's really not needed to push any crackle before p3). I healed our Ony tank solo, 2 healers on Nef tank, 1 on raid (mostly on our DK add kiter).

2 healers on the platform with 4 people in p2 (I think it helps to have the solo Ony tank on the 4 person platform because that will likely be the healer with the least mana)

p3 - Nef in the center, kite adds around the outside. As said many times in these threads, you can wait to push all crackles here easily. Big Wigs definitely helped our add tank (better timers). Our best 2 healers stood on the raid/Nef tank, other 2 on add tank.This covers part of what I was going to say. Joined a Pug the other night and we 1-shotted Nef after losing two DPS and a healer (so we had 1 Disc priest and 1 HPally for phase 3).

The issue that Pugs are going to see on Nefarian now is out of control DPS. Crackle still does about 73k damage to everyone, and pushing them too quickly means a raid wipe, even with nerfs and gear. I would say that eliminating a DPS is the best way to handle it now. A healer would be good, but you could also get another tank, allowing you to 3-tank the encounter. This would let you get a real tank on adds in phase 1 (more threat), and you could also trade off breaths in phase 3, as that seems to cause the most tank damage.

Savagemonkey
07-20-2011, 06:36 AM
We faced Neffy last night for the first time. After a few wipes we managed to get the kill. Our Raid comp was as follows:-

Tanks
Death Knight (Me, On Adds)
Paladin (On Ony)
Druid (On Neffy)

Healers
Holy Paladin
Disc Priest
Resto Shammy

DPS
Fire Mage
Ret Paladin
Rogue (dont know spec)
Fury Warrior

Now first thing you'll notice is we were Melee heavy. This was not ideal, as the Adds in PH2 were being killed by the Tanks, well before the Mage was able to do enough damage to get 2 Crackles. Now, we could have really slowed the dps on the adds, however on my platform, I needed to Death Strike and keep Diseases up to reduce damage intake (to virtually nil) to enable the Shammy to regen his mana, as he was very nearly OOM after PH1. The Rogue also needed to dps to self heal, so although our add died last, it was still well before a 2nd PH2 Crackle.

The kiting explanations work very well, and I’d advise anyone who is unsure, to read the previous pages. Kiting backwards, followed by side stepping when Neffy casts his Shadowblaze Spark to quickly move the adds away worked very well.

Now the biggest problem we faced was with the adds, more specifically, me holding aggro on them. Multiple times I'd Taunt/Deathgrip an Add to me, apply my Diseases then gather the next add, only to find my Diseases were no longer present on the first add. I'd tab back to the first target to use Pestilence to spread...wait....nothing, the Add would be clean, and would be looking at my healer for an easy meal. I'd need to then re-Taunt/Deathgrip, Icy Touch, shout, scream, or wave my hands up and down in a frenzy to get the add to come back. This only seemed a problem in the first 10secs of them being ressed. I normally have very few aggro problems in Raids, even on a Timewarp/Heroism pull, however, these Adds seemed to behave differently. Anyone else found this? Also, does anyone know why my Diseases were being Dispelled/Clensed/whatever so quickly?(Im talking no more than 15secs).

Other than that, it went pretty smoothly. With only 4 DPS, we were able to manage the raid damage very easily as the Crackles were well spread, It only started to get hairy towards the end. I found Anti-Magic Shell a MUST to use on Crackle's especially later in PH3 (Neffy to 10%) as the damage from the Adds was getting very high. Later in the fight, a mis-timed Crackle would easily kill me with the Add damage added in. I died when Neffy was at around 5-600k HP, at that point the spare Paladin Tank took over for the last 15-20sec's, and Vent erupted with instructions for the new Add tank...'Tanks down, Pick up the Adds'.....'Tank Healers down, PICK UP THE ADDS'.....'Pop Cool downs'.....'Get them out of the Fire!'.