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rnlmeat0666
12-29-2010, 01:19 PM
So I just started tanking today, I swap from dps to Tank after I gained enough gear.
I have specced into the correct talents and glyphs. Also I enchanted/gemmed my gear.

I did my first two Heroics. and EVERY trash pull, I wipe.

My rotation starts with a Icy Touch, Plague strike, Pest, blood boil, death strike. then start spamming rune strike. then I pop vampiric blood after taking alot of damage. and also use Rune Tap and Blood tap then I die. I always prep bone shield and use dancing rune wepon every pull.

Healer complains im a giant meat shield. And im stacking too much stamina. I complained its his heals. whats your opinion? The healer rage quit after the first two wipes. and I came to this fourm seeking help.

This is my toon
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/korgath/beaf/advanced

More detail: it was Grim Batol, it was already a partial complete run. On the trash after this first boss. My combat log doesnt explain how i died. Just plainly says "Beaf Died" my stats all just drop.

Sebadoh
12-29-2010, 02:31 PM
Were you using CC? Because no matter how good your gear is, charging into a pack of 5 mobs like Rambo is just going to end badly - healers don't have the firepower to keep a tank up through that sort of thing.

It also doesn't help that you reforged all your avoidance and mastery into Hit rating. I'm not enough of an expert on current tanking mechanics/theory to give you a better breakdown, unfortunately, but definitely try to get your avoidance/mitigation stats higher.

rnlmeat0666
12-29-2010, 02:47 PM
i have to reforge to hit, none of my gear gives me hit, and i have enough now to get 6.5%

mangaart1st
12-29-2010, 03:09 PM
Currently, most if not all tanks are not concerning themselves with HIT or Expertise for heroics or early raiding. Due to the vengenace mechanic and proper rotation, as well as smart group play(CC, kill orders, interrupts, throttled dps) there simply is not an issue with threat generation. If you feel you need hit and expertise because you don't generate enough threat its most likely rotation or skill selection not lack of threat stats.

Most takes at the moment, are reforging out of their hit and expertise into avoidance and mitigation stats to help ease healer mana burn and increase longevity.

I would recommend you read Satorri's DK guide here at Tankspot for more info on how you can improve your rotation, trinket and cool down usage.

rnlmeat0666
12-29-2010, 04:06 PM
naw, im good. that run it was just a bad healer, every other heroics im doing fine without cc with a guildie healer

Cheesewheel
12-30-2010, 01:05 AM
naw, im good. that run it was just a bad healer, every other heroics im doing fine without cc with a guildie healer
Regardless of what you may think, it was not just your healer (whether he was poor or not) but your rotation and gear setup is truly sub-optimal. You are currently reforged completely into threat stats which I can guarantee you are not necessary. Your "rotation" should be a priority system and not a rotation at all. You should cast your outbreak and blood boil to reduce damage and then proceed to heart strike for threat or death strike if you need healing+bubble, Rune Strike when you are getting close on threat to others or are rune-locked. For aoe of more then three mobs blood boil should replace your heart strike. When blood boil and frost fever fall off, you should replace only them and ignore plague strike as it is a completely negligible threat gain. Reforge for avoidance and mastery (with mastery as a larger priority), get the swordshattering rune on your weapon instead of stoneskin gargoyle. I also suggest you use your chimera's eye gems for mastery instead of stamina and gem parry in red sockets, stamina in blue, and mastery in yellow. I would gem mastery in all the prismatic sockets as well. The gear changes will increase survivability which will save your healers mana. The priority system I have described will also increase your threat output. Please message me if you have any questions

rnlmeat0666
12-30-2010, 07:27 AM
i dont understand what your saying, because wouldnt i need hit to beable to successfuly strike with death strike at crucial points in raids? as well as taunts? Our guild's main tank has less gear than me, but he has Threat issues and unfortuante timing on his Taunt misses. I reforged into hit, to prevent situations like that.

I just started doing raid tanking today, and this situation happened more than once, espcecially on halfus, where he had to taunt off me, and he could not taunt. As well as some occurances with Omnotron Defense the tank lost aggro and couldnt gain it back because failed taunts.

But if your saying mitigation > threat and Hit then Ok, ill try. Im just skeptical about tanking way under hit. my current hit is 6.58%. Just never tanked without some hit back in wrath.

I could also get rid of some mastery if the Blood shield isnt important. Right now with 16 mastery, I have 100% health gained as blood shield, with the food buff, 103%.

rnlmeat0666
12-30-2010, 07:40 AM
i guess what im asking is, What is the most safe level of hit/expertise befor going all into avoidance/mitigation. without hindering the ability to hold descent threat in raids and being able to hit death strikes when i need it and taunting.

bigruver
12-30-2010, 08:03 AM
If you feel you need the hit that badly, (which you dont) use hit gems instead of stamina. All that stamina is just a mana soak.

Taunts dont miss and if a DS misses you can recast it.

I run with dps pulling 20K and their threat is never above 50%.

Also, CC for the love of God, CC. You may be able to survive, but why make the healer drink every pull?

rnlmeat0666
12-30-2010, 08:16 AM
Ok i unforged My hit, you said I dont need hit, so 0 is not good or is my stats fine now?

Cheesewheel
12-30-2010, 04:11 PM
Ok i unforged My hit, you said I dont need hit, so 0 is not good or is my stats fine now?
First thing up: TAUNTS CANNOT MISS the tank who you say kept missing taunts is either lying or is just blissfully unaware. It is impossible for a taunt to miss even if you have 0 hit rating.
2nd: The new system of runes is alot more forgiving, if your spell or strike misses you are refunded the runes and all you lose is a GCD which is a 1 second lose. If the difference between you dying or living from a death strike heal is 1 second something else is going wrong. In other words, do not worry about your abilities missing too much as it will most likely not hinder your threat or survivability.
3rd Mastery is a very valuable stat because it provides mitigation/damage reduction i would recommend favoring it over avoidance

Felycitas
12-30-2010, 04:54 PM
First thing up: TAUNTS CANNOT MISS the tank who you say kept missing taunts is either lying or is just blissfully unaware. It is impossible for a taunt to miss even if you have 0 hit rating.Well now.. we have some conflicting information here.

1) Taunts could miss in Wrath. Dark Command used the spell hit table and it's why there was a glyph that gave your Dark Command an extra 8% chance to hit.

2) I did a quick search because I don't know the answer, but it looks like taunts use the melee hit table now in Cataclysm.

So basically...

Can you clarify, because as far as I'm aware.. yes.. taunts can miss.

rnlmeat0666
12-30-2010, 05:02 PM
First thing up: TAUNTS CANNOT MISS the tank who you say kept missing taunts is either lying or is just blissfully unaware. It is impossible for a taunt to miss even if you have 0 hit rating.
2nd: The new system of runes is alot more forgiving, if your spell or strike misses you are refunded the runes and all you lose is a GCD which is a 1 second lose. If the difference between you dying or living from a death strike heal is 1 second something else is going wrong. In other words, do not worry about your abilities missing too much as it will most likely not hinder your threat or survivability.
3rd Mastery is a very valuable stat because it provides mitigation/damage reduction i would recommend favoring it over avoidance
i didnt say he was a DK tank, he is a paladin, i dont know if its a difference

Katzazi
12-30-2010, 05:36 PM
Taunts cannot miss anymore. That's not dependent on your class. As far as I know this was tested by the community and confirmed by a member of blizz. Anyway - I'm not sure but I think the DR of taunts should have stayed. So maybe even if taunts cannot miss, they can get unplayable if the mob was taunted too often for a given time. (I'm on vacation at the moment, so I don't have access to my game at the moment and cannot test this.)

Cheesewheel
12-30-2010, 09:43 PM
Taunts cannot miss anymore. That's not dependent on your class. As far as I know this was tested by the community and confirmed by a member of blizz. Anyway - I'm not sure but I think the DR of taunts should have stayed. So maybe even if taunts cannot miss, they can get unplayable if the mob was taunted too often for a given time. (I'm on vacation at the moment, so I don't have access to my game at the moment and cannot test this.)
This seems like the most logical explanation because taunts cannot miss but I think they can still diminish to the point where the mob becomes immune to taunt

bournsupreme
01-01-2011, 12:53 PM
My input for the op. Is don't worry too much about your hit . If my gear already has parry dodge on it I leave it alone. If there is any other stat I reforge into mastery. I have a 3 - 4 % miss but I never have issues with agro. Also I see you start with IT and PS. Use your outbreak , spread the disease hit blood boil to get that 10% damage reduction from those melee hits. It adds up. Plus use them cool downs. Their on short timers....use them. Like other poster said.. gotta use cc. I will get rocked if too many get on me and I have 170 k ish HP and 80 ish mastery.