View Full Version : Tanking New to Tanking Help !!! OVERWHELMED
12-23-2010, 07:25 PM
:( I've played one Expansion with Mage, WTLK with a Priest (healer role), now in Cata i wanted to try Tanking
I rolled a Warr, then i investigated a bit about rotations, setting up a good Tanking UI , the required addons, Tidy plates, omen, that kind of stuff.
Anyway im complete overwhelmed atm, Tanking Heroics i feel a complete newb.
My Biggest Problems
1. Loose Track of my char and its positioning around the mobs, as i told before i always had ranged roles, sometimes in pulls i literaly Loose my Char, if i try to view the char too Zoomed i feel i dont have enough vision of the surrondings, if i zoom out too much, sometimes ill loose notion where the char is.
2. Rage Starved in the begining of a pull because ive missed something in the rotation, then its hell to get them back
3. My rotation is not CLEAN or Fluid, im not really aware yet of the GBCD's. One of the reasons i lost track of things its because im looking at the spell bars, so i can know what i will do next, this really hampers my Tanking habilitys, on my beloved mage and priest, i would never look at at the spell bar.
4. CC pulls drive me nuts
5. Been overwhelming learning tanking for the 1st time, when i can autopilot on my priest or mage.
Anyway i wont quit, or take the easy way out, ill struggle to become a Hell of a good Tank
I already told my guild to not count me till Late January, till i feel im capable of tanking at a ok, good lvl, meanwhile ill farm heroics.
Give me some absolute begginer tips, my biggest problem atm is dealing with the Global cooldowns, and rage, and looking to the spell bar, too see what i can do, and not paying enough attention to whats happening plus the Camera thing is killing and sometimes with so much going on and with the 101 spells being casted i loose notion of my char.
Also Multiple Caster Trash Packs are driving me insane, or the CC pulls
What you guys think
its the things i should focusse more in the begining
Sorry for my english, its not my native languague
12-24-2010, 08:11 AM
1) Can't help you there, that is something you will have to figure out. My biggest trick is holding down the right mouse button which makes the character turn with the camera (or keeps the camera still while strafing/moving).
2) Rage - Commanding shout generates it, Charge generates it, getting hit generates it.
3) There is no 'rotation' just a priority system based on how much threat attacks do. Basically it is: Shield Slam>Revenge>Shockwave>Heroic Strike/cleave (rage permitting)>Thunder Clap>Demo Shout>Devastate
4) What's wrong with CC? It's useful, it keeps you alive. When they are going to CC pull, you commanding shout and thunderclap the mobs onto you.
5) You picked the most complicated tank class in the game, and have never tanked before. So you have to learn 2 things at once: the class, and how to tank.
Multiple caster trash packs are somewhat easy. You have a few abilities to deal with them. If you have aggro, spell reflect. If they are within melee range - Shield Bash (silence). If they are not in melee range - Heroic Throw (ranged silence). You also have 3 charges and one jump to move you around if you need to get to a mob.
To give you an idea of what you are getting into, I have keys 1-8, shift 1-8, alt 1-8, mouse 3-5, and shift mouse 4/5 all bound on my keypad/mouse to abilities. I also have clique binding even more keys on my mouse to different abilities.
12-24-2010, 09:14 AM
holy shit mellvar. ive got about half those bound lol
dimagia to help out
1) youll find a sweet spot eventually so dont stress this too much as its different for every person although one thing that i like to do while tanking is back the camera out a decent amount and then pull the camera so its straight above me and it gives me a good look at absolutely everything around me.
2) until you get used to it just mage sure to charge at the start of every pull you can and commanding/battle shout before u charge and everytime theyre off cd. what also might help is a glyph for berserker rage to make it generate 5 rage. not much but its just a minor glyph.
3) what mellvar said. just follow the priority system and dont rage starve yourself with heroic strike and cleave
4) learn to love cc cause your gonna need it to get through heroics. if your having your dps cc after you pull make sure you wait to spread your rends till your away from the cc targets and if your doing a cc pull one tip i have is once the cc goes out use your commanding shout then just to get the mobs running to you to drop a thunder clap.
5) again what mellvar said. warriors are the most complicated but, in my opinion, the funnest tank to play so your double stressing yourself by making this your first tank but when you learn how to do it you will be able to pick up any other tank and make it look easy (but if your like me youll hate every other tank class cause they seem boring ;) )
12-24-2010, 09:29 AM
Okay. DiMagia, stop. Breathe. Count to ten backwards. In Latin.
Tanking can seem daunting. It's not that hard, you'll get the hang of it.
I can't tell you what your rotation should be. I can tell you that you are going to have to train it. It'll take time. It doesn't have to be perfect in many situations, so once you have the general hang of it, you can train while doing instances.
Now, for specific help. Keep the right mouse button pressed down while tanking, so the camera is always directly behind your character. If you see the back of a mob on your screen, he's facing your rear, so you need to fix it.
Mob positioning can be tricky, and you could go and practice at an easy place - see exactly how mobs move. Try to find a place that has a caster (or other ranged) or two in it, so you learn how to move those as well.
CCpulls are brilliant. Learn them - learn how to pick up mobs before they maul your team. Learn how your team sometimes does it's best to prevent you from doing this. Learn how to counteract this sabotage. It'll take some getting used to, but it's well worth it.
If you can farm heroics, then in all likelyhood, your skills are good enough to go raid. It's admirable that you want to be completely prepared, but raid tanking is something you'll only really learn by doing it.
12-25-2010, 07:25 AM
Ok some tips. Get mouseover macros for ht and charge/ intervene. That way you can always charge one mob and ht another for decent starting agro on pulls. If theres casters always save ht for them as it brings them to you.
Positioning wise once i charge in a group ill back up a bit to compress them before a shockwave.'by then ill be facing the group with mobs back to them for melee dps and to keep and eye on healer. If you have a stray caster then once aggro is locked you will need to pick them up. Always keep spell reflect on cooldown at this stage.
Rage wise pop your shouts at start of pull. Glyped bloodrage also gives you a rage boost. My primary rotation ht dev ss and revenge i bind to 1-4. I have shield slam and shield block macroed together so its always on cooldown amd saves me a keybind spot.
Just keep at it. Imo its definitely not an easy class to master and now we have to use even more tools on pulls, stuff i would neber touch in woltk. Eg demo shout.
Glyphed intimid shout is also great for cc on packs if uou taking a lot of damage.
12-26-2010, 05:41 AM
If you're tanking for the first time and you're going straight into tanking current heroics then it'll be a bit of a baptism of fire. The best advice would be to get a lot of practice in normals or before the expansion hit, but that doesn't help you now.
The core of learning to tank is by getting a lot of practice so a lot of things come as second nature, so you're probably going to struggle a lot given the current level of difficulty for heroic dungeons. Don't lose heart though, it just takes a considerable commitment.
12-26-2010, 06:13 AM
My advice, probably one of the easiest too, is to ask your dps in your group to count to 3 before nuking everything in range. I think this, when used in addition to the other advice you recieved in this thread, it should help with your aggro problems.
12-27-2010, 08:06 AM
Well, there has already been quite a bit of good advice. I figure being a Prot war since Classic I can share some insight as well as these fellow tanks.
1. I agree with most of the others as far as being able to find yourself in the crowd. Right Mouse button is a god send. An easy way to practice this like was mentioned is go somewhere where you can pull 7-8 mobs at once and get comfortable moving around that pack. The spatial awareness a tank requires to excel is much different then a healer or ranged dps.
2. Rage starvation is a big concern for new tanks. Aside from using your commanding or battle shout at the beginning of every pull you have to train yourself to pull calmly. I have seen a lot of newer tanks in my own guild that try to mash out everything they can asap. That's not how prot wars work.
3. I'm not going to go over the priorty list of war abilities as their are already plenty around the forum. Remember, it is your job to hold threat, but only on the designated kill target at the time. If your dps are all attacking different mobs your job's difficulty increases significantly. Me personally I only use rly 4 key bound buttons with mouse binds for 4 more. 1. HS, 2. Revenge, 3. Shield Slam, 4. Devestate. For single target and most multi mob tanking assignments those are the 4 primary abilities you want to get into muscle memory asap. The rest I personally click with my mouse.
4. CC pulls will probably drive you a little batty till most of the WoW community relearns how to do it right. One of the biggest things you can learn as a tank(if you are expected to arrange pulls) is what cc's are available, their restrictions, cooldowns ect. Once you have a good idea of whats available its all about having clear communication as to who's CC'ing what and in what order. For example. I often have a hunter and mage I run with. I mark up a moon and square (binding marks to F1-F8 will speed this up) the mage knows to start their cast once they see the trap in the air. I then Heroic throw Skull (1st kill target) wait till they are out of range of the cc and begin my rotation. Learn to seriously love CC as it actually makes your job a lot easier as you'll have less mobs to manage.
5. As to being overwhelmed, the worse possible way to learn is through pugs so don't do that. Many just won't take the time to allow newer tanks to learn their role which will compound feelings of being overwhelmed. Be confident you can tank what your tanking as well. Like any role if you are not confident your are going to perform poorly due to self doubt and hesitation. Remember, tanks are not the make and break of every pull. They are 33% of the success of an encounter. Just work to make sure your are covering your 33%, if the healer and dps are covering their own talk to them to find out why.
As for the rest, really just relax and have fun. Get some guildies to take some time with you to run regulars. Remind them it'll pay off once your confident to tackle heroics as it'll mean short ques for them. Tanking is a different beast from either dps or healing. We have our own form of tunnel vision to get used to, the need to increase spatial awareness to be effective, setting up pulls correctly to coincide with the groups makeup ect.
Also, 2 really awesome tips for beginning tanks of all classes.
Interrupt. Don't assume anyone else is going to do it as for the last 2 years almost all dps haven't had the need to kick, countspell, brain freeze, pummel ect. Shield bash and Heroic throws along with well timed Shockwaves and Conc Blows will interrupt abilites that will significantly increase your survivability among trash and bosses.
Knowledge. The other is learn the fights and trash. You just stepped into the role that needs to have the most knowledge of encounters in the game. To be able to tank well you need to be able to react fast and efficently. One of the steps to that goal is knowing whats happening and going to happen in the encounters.
Pro Tip for just Prot War. Learn to use your manuverability. You have three(four with a stance dance) abilities that increase your ability to get around more so then any other tank as well as some non tank classes. Charge, Intervene, Intercept and Heroic Leap should be mastered for mid pull situations not just the onset.
12-27-2010, 09:34 AM
DiMagia, man I feel you. I really, really do. My first raiding character was a Warrior, and although I have played a Warrior since classic, I haven't tanked with the warrior since 3.Naxx-something-or-other. Just as I was settling into Cataclysm heroics with my Mage, getting used to using CC and using more awareness than I have needed to since The Burning Crusade's launch, I get asked to level and gear my warrior to be the backup tank for my guild. Talk about feeling out of sorts! After spending the bulk of Wrath as a caster, I can and do completely understand where you are coming from. In fact, I'm glad you posted ahead of me because I don't have to wait for the resources to come in!
That being said, a couple of things that I would suggest based on recent personal experience.
1.) Put a raid icon on yourself. Tell your party that you are doing so to make sure that you know where to find yourself mid pull. Make a joke of it and it will go down easy with almost any group.
2 & 3 were covered really well.
4.) CC. The WoW Community was allowed to get away from the use of Crowd Control in TBC and Wrath. Almost four years where crowd control could be out geared ended up teaching the majority of the player base that Crowd Control was an afterthought - something to be used only when the tank died and the DPS was not going to run/vanish/invis/ or otherwise die. I'm fortunate enough to have been playing as a tank back in classic and I understand the value of crowd control. Not only will crowd control help you with your survivability until you out gear the encounters, it will help you maintain the flow of the pull. Insist on crowd control being used. Quick list of CC capable classes/specs:
Mage (All): Polymorph - Humanoid/Beasts - In/Out of combat
Warlock (All): Banish - Elementals/Demons - In/Out of combat
Rogue (All): Sap - Humanoid/Beasts/Demons/Dragonkin - Out of Combat
Hunter (All): Trap Launcher + Freezing Trap - In/Out of combat
Hunter (Survival): Wyvern Sting
Paladin (All): Hammer of Justice (Very short duration)
Paladin (Retribution): Repentance - Humanoids/Demons/Dragonkin/Giants/Undead
Priest (All): Shackle Undead - Undead
Druid (All): Cyclone
Druid (All): Hibernate - Beasts
I think that's all of them. If not, I'm sure someone will add to the list. In either case - recognize the power and importance of Crowd Control and insist on its use any and every time that you can use it. It will easily cut your stress in half.
From one rusty veteran to a new member: Welcome to the club.
12-27-2010, 12:00 PM
Anyway im complete overwhelmed atm, Tanking Heroics i feel a complete newb.
Stop running heroics. You need to run regular mode until you feel less overwhelmed by tanking. There is more room for error in the regular modes and you can familiarize yourself with the dungeons and pulls. You should still use cc to practice tanking around it.
12-27-2010, 11:04 PM
Thanks for all replys they where all really helpfull, slowly im getting better with all this advices plus experience
12-27-2010, 11:09 PM
Btw bradius, i printed your CC list thanks
12-27-2010, 11:32 PM
Some comments and additions to the list.
(Entangling) Roots functions as a decent CC as well, but only on melee mobs.
A good (frost) mage can use frost nova and his pet's freeze combined with slows as a form of crowd control. To all mages out there: Don't do this unless people expect it - random mass roots aren't a good thing.
Hammer of Justice doesn't really fit in the list, the duration and cooldowns of it are too long to count as real crowd control.