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Ellóren
12-16-2010, 06:14 AM
Hi hi!

Now that my tank is rising through the last five (Cata) levels, I've been brushing up my knowledge of CC abilities of the different classes. I knew the abilities' names before but not who they can be used on and in- or out-of-combat restrictions so it was good to educate myself.

Wowwiki has a handy list of cc abilities. Unfortunately I wasn't so lucky when I searched for interrupts. They explain what an interrupt is and give examples, but I'd like a list of interrupt abilities so I'll know who to ask to interrupt while fighting a boss with a dangerous but interruptible ability.

Does anyone know of such a list? Or simply know all the classes' interrupt abilities? Alternatively we could just collect abilities until we have something resembling a complete list :)

CatabriOnEarthen
12-16-2010, 06:28 AM
Not by any means complete. Off the top of my head while I'm eating a bagel.

Rogue: Kick, Kidney shot (stuns will interrupt)
Paladin: HoJ, Avenger's Shield (may be some ret thing I don't know about)
DK: Mind Freeze, Strangulate
Hunter: Silencing shot (is this still MM only?), tranq shot to dispel enrages (when dispellable)
Druid: Soothe (dispels dispellable enrages)

OK, tranq and soothe aren't interrupts, but they should be kept in mind. Tree doodad soothed Lockjaw on Normal last night helping himself out.

Theotherone
12-16-2010, 06:42 AM
Hunter: Silencing shot (is this still MM only?)


Yes.

Reev
12-16-2010, 06:50 AM
This is probably not comprehensive, but I wrote this for my guild yesterday:

With Cataclysm come new challenges which require new responsibilities from raiders and 5 man heroic-ers. Gone are the days of "Show up on time with flask and food and just maximize your dps/heals and know the fights." Now there are far more responsibilities, and they need to be spread out among the players. To that end, I'm creating this thread to discuss the different responsibilities for the different members and class/specs.

First of all, mana matters now, which has several results:

1. CC is needed.

CC is needed now more than ever. It's important that all raid leaders know who can CC what for each player to know all of his or her own CC capabilities, things we may have forgotten over WotLK. To that end:

Beasts
Druids (lvl 48)- Hibernate 40 seconds (breaks on any damage) No CD
Mages (lvl 14)- Polymorph 50 seconds (breaks on any damage) No CD
Shamans (lvl 80)- Hex 1 minute (may break on damage) 45 second CD
Rogues (lvl 10)- Sap 1 minute (breaks on any damage) Only usabe out of combat

Demons
Warlock (lvl 32) Banish 30 seconds (won't break on damage) No CD
Warlock (lvl 30) Enslave Demon 5 minutes (won't break on damage) No CD
Ret Pally- Repentance 1 minute (breaks on any damage) 1 minute CD
Rogues (lvl 10)- Sap 1 minute (breaks on any damage) Only usabe out of combat

Dragonkin
Ret Pally- Repentance 1 minute (breaks on any damage) 1 minute CD
Druids (lvl 48)- Hibernate 40 seconds (breaks on any damage) No CD
Rogues (lvl 10)- Sap 1 minute (breaks on any damage) Only usabe out of combat

Elementals
Warlock (lvl 32) Banish 30 seconds (won't break on damage) No CD
Shaman (lvl 64) Bind Elemental 50 seconds (breaks on damage) No CD

Giants
Ret Pally- Repentance 1 minute (breaks on damage) 1 minute CD

Humanoids
Ret Pally- Repentance 1 minute (breaks on damage) 1 minute CD
Shamans (lvl 80)- Hex 1 minute (may break on damage) 45 second CD
Rogues (lvl 10)- Sap 1 minute (breaks on any damage) Only usabe out of combat
Mages (lvl 14)- Polymorph 50 seconds (breaks on any damage) No CD
Priests (lvl 38)- Mind Control 30 seconds (won't break on damage) No CD
Warlock (lvl 20) Seduction 30 seconds (breaks on damage) No CD

Undead
Ret Pally- Repentance 1 minute (breaks on any damage) 1 minute CD
Priests (lvl 32)- Shackle Undead 50 Seconds (breaks on any damage) No CD

CC FOR ANY MOB (or nearly every mob)
Survival Hunters- Wyvern Sting 30 seconds (breaks on damage) 1 minute CD .. any mob except undead
Hunters (duration depends on level)- Freezing Trap 20 seconds (26s for survival) 30 sec CD.. used on any type of mob
Druids (lvl 10)- Entangling Roots 30 seconds (breaks on some damage) No CD... don't use on caster mobs
Warlocks (lvl 25 GLYPHED) Fear 20 seconds (breaks on some damage) 5 sec CD

2. Dispells

Most classes have a way to deal with debuffs. The problem is, dispells now cost incredible quantities of mana. If we leave dispelling up entirely to the healers, they will go OOM halfway through fights. DPS and tanks also need to help when possible.

Warriors:
Warrior tanks have Shield Slam, which dispells one magic effect from enemies.

Rogues:
Rogues have Cloak of Shadows to remove most debuffs from themselves, and anesthetic poison to remove enrages from mobs.

DKs:
DKs have no dispells, as far as I know.

Paladins:
All paladins may use Cleanse, which removes poison, disease, and magic.

Druid:
Druids may remove poisons and curses, and resto can also remove magic.

Shaman:
Clease spirit removes poisons and diseases, and resto can also remove magic. Shaman also have the unique advantage of having a cleansing totem.

Hunter:
Hunters may remove an enrage or magic effect from a target with Tranquilizing Shot.

Mage:
Mages may remove curses from friendly players and spellsteal magic effects from enemies.

Warlock:
Devour Magic can dispell a harmful magic debuff from an ally or a beneficial magic debuff from an enemy.

Priest:
Priests can dispel harmful magic effects from allies and beneficial magic effects from enemies. They can also cure disease.

Dwarves: Stoneform racial will dispel a bleed or poison effect.

Remember, if you are a healer or DPS, it doesn't matter. It is NECESSARY to involve yourself in dispelling in order to reduce the load on the already mana starved healers.

3. Interrupts

All classes have some sort of interrupt available to them. These can range from short cooldowns like Wind Shear to kick-like mechanics like Kick, Rebuke, Shield Bash, Mind Freeze, Pummel on a 10-12 second cooldown, to longer cooldown interrupts like Silencing Shot, Hammer of Justice, Heroic Throw, etc. But it's important to note that these are not the only interrupts. Many classes have other mechanics which can offer the same result. Priests have Psychic Scream, warriors have various stuns and Intimidating Shout, warlocks have several stuns and Death Coil, among others. Know all the abilities you have available for interrupts because interrupting casting has become incredibly important in heroics and raids. Not interrupting means a failed run and an angry healer.

4. Self Heals
Most classes have a way to self heal now. This is yet another way you can help take the mana pressure off healers. I kind of include damage reduction in this as well, because it ends up having the same effect:

Warriors:
Enraged Regeneration and Victory Rush. Shield Wall, Shield Block, Spell Reflect, Demoralizing Shout.

Rogues:
Recuperate. Cloak of Shadows, Evasion, Smoke Bomb, Vanish, etc.

DKs:
Death Strike, Rune Tap, Sacrifice Ghoul. Anti-Magic Shield, Icebound Fortitude.

Paladins:
Word of Glory (non healer applications), out of combat Holy Light if your healer is running lowish. BoP, Divine Protection, Divine Shield.

Druid:
Pretty much all the standard healing spells. Barkskin, Bearform.

Shaman:
Pretty much all the standard healing spells. Shamanistic Rage...

Hunter:
Deterrence, Feign Death.

Mage:
Ice Barrier, Mana Shield, Invisibility.

Warlock:
Drain Life, Siphon Life, Demonform.

Priest:
All the standard Healing Spells. Fade, Dispersion.

In addition to all these, ALL classes can use Healthstones and Bandages. Healthstones are no longer things you just put in your bag and ignore. They are important things to use. If you know your healer is struggling, and you're low on HP or in a phase transition, stepping out of damage areas and bandaging IS a good option, regardless of class. Finally, if you don't click the Lightwell, and you die, it's your own damn fault.



Any other input or comments is appreciated.

Reev
12-16-2010, 06:58 AM
By the way, the CC portion of that post was originally written by Helicon.

Theotherone
12-16-2010, 07:00 AM
Very nice list.

For dispels/cleanses, the Dwarf racial (Stoneform or whatever it is , I only play three of them lol) removes a bleed or poison effect.

Reev
12-16-2010, 07:02 AM
Thanks, I added it. I'll work on fleshing out the interrupt section later. Maybe this weekend when I have more time.

Theotherone
12-16-2010, 07:05 AM
I don't know if you want to go into talented silence abilities; that may make it a bit unwieldily.

Reev
12-16-2010, 07:08 AM
I don't know if you want to go into talented silence abilities; that may make it a bit unwieldily.

I kind of want to cover anything that can interrupt so that people understand that most classes have multiple means of interrupts for those times when a 12 second cooldown just isn't fast enough. Death Coil, for example, makes a great interrupt, and on longer casts, warstomp can work well also. I kind of want to get people out of the "this is my box, and this is what X ability is for" type of thinking that predominated in Cataclysm. Being creative with your ability usage is a good thing.

Ellóren
12-16-2010, 07:51 AM
Thanks all for the replies, and Reev, that is an awesome list! Can't wait for the complete interrupt section!

Here comes your well-educated tank :D

Theotherone
12-16-2010, 07:55 AM
Death Grip for DK's interrupt too.

Reev
12-16-2010, 07:57 AM
Death Grip for DK's interrupt too.

Thanks, I'll put that in when I do up the interrupt section.

Mammoth
12-16-2010, 07:58 AM
Bear/Kitty Druids: Skull Bash, 8 second cooldown if talented (and it should be talented)
Bear Druids: Bash (45sec cooldown if talented; same talent used to lower Skull Bash)

Quinafoi
12-16-2010, 08:53 AM
Of course my post I write is too long and I get logged out before finishing. :P

Anyway there are several things to update in regard to cleansing.

1. Only Holy Paladin's through a talent can Cleanse magic debuffs.
2. Shaman don't have a Cleansing Totem, they have a Tremor Totem only.
3. Warlock Felhunter can only devour benefitial buffs off hostile targets now (least according to the spell tooltip).
4. Holy Priests can cleanse poisons off themself with the Cure Disease spell through the talent Body and Soul.
5. Priest's Dispel Magic dispels TWO magic effects and can either be harmful effects on friendly players or benefitial effects on hostile units.
6. Priest's have a lovely spell called Mass Dispel which dispels one harmful magic effect on up to 10 friendly targets as well as one benefitial magic effect on up to 10 hostile targets.
7. Druid's Soothe will remove "all" enrages. Difference is important in the context where there may be a stacking or multiple enrages.
8. Hunter's Tranquilizing Shot will remove "one" enrage "and" one magic effect.
9. Druid's can shapeshift out of any movement imparing effect. Entering a shapeshifted form will also remove any polymorph effect and grant immunity to those effects.
10. Gnome racial, Escape Artist, can cleanse all snares and slows.
11. Human racial, Every Man for Himself, and PvP Trinkets removes all movement imparing and loss of character control effects.
12. Dwarf racial, Stoneform, removes all poisons, bleeds, and "diseases".
13. Undead racial, Will of the Forsaken, removes all charm, fear, and sleep effects.
14. Rogues no longer have Anesthetic Poison, it was removed from the game.
15. Berserker Rage for Warriors removes fears, sap, and incapacitate effects as well as grants temporary immunity to them.
16. Paladin's Hand of Protection removes many physical debuffs such as bleeds as well as grants temporary immunity to physical damage.
17. Paladin's Divine Shield removes any removable debuff and grants immunity to all effects.
18. Mage's Ice Block removes any removable debuff and grants immunity to all effects.
19. Mage's Blink removes any stuns and snares.
20. Hunter's with Improved Mend Pet in tier 2 of Beast Mastery can clense up to one magic, poison, curse or disease off of their pet per tick of Mend Pet.
21. Demonology Warlock's can use Demonic Empowerment to clense stuns, snares, and movement imparing effects from their Succubus or Felguard and in the case of Felguard grant their Felgaurd 15 seconds of immunity to those. This ability can also be used to cleanse all magical debuffs off of their Felhunter pet.

In regard to interrupts, don't forget about silences and counterspells. Balance Solar Beam for instance is great for silencing multiple caster types at once.

Knockbacks since they result in moving the target, like Death Grip, can also interrupt casting so don't forget to include Thunderstorm and Typhoon as viable options. Bosses however are typically immune to these effects.

Think that was all I had for now.

Reev
12-16-2010, 09:02 AM
Thanks for all that Quina! Obviously a lot has changed! Again, I'll make the changes tonight.

Fetzie
12-16-2010, 09:02 AM
Retribution paladins can talent into a kick equivalent (and should)
Warlock Imp minion can cleanse magic effects from friends and enemies

Libicocco
12-16-2010, 09:05 AM
For whatever balance reason the lock pet magic dispels are now split. Felhunter Devour Magic purges magic buffs from enemies, and Imp Singe Magic cleanses magic debuffs from allies.

Quinafoi
12-16-2010, 09:29 AM
I think we are really approaching the need for a master list from the wrong direction. Rather than catagorizing it by what it does, clensing, interrupting, crowd controling, ect., I think we should simply form a comprehensive list of what each class brings to the group. Then instead of scanning a list of stuff for classes you don't have, just read about what classes in your group can do and make your decisions from there. For example, if you are grouped with a hunter, read about what tools a hunter brings to the table.

Reev
12-16-2010, 09:47 AM
Probably true Quinafoi. I was continuing the precedent set by the person who did the CC list. Probably better would be:

Warrior
CC: Blah
Interrupts: Blah
Dispels: Blah
Other utility abilities: Blah
Utility buffs/rebuffs: Blah

And then repeat for each class. I think I was also doing it the other way so I could explain the importance of each mechanic to my guild in an organic way.

Selene
12-16-2010, 03:16 PM
Death Grip for DK's interrupt too.

Only if it actually grabs the mob and pulls it to you.

Daavos
12-16-2010, 04:51 PM
Hmnn... I wonder if the lack of CC will mean trouble for DKs and arms & fury warriors like it was in the Burning Crusade for 5 mans.

Reev
12-16-2010, 08:28 PM
Hmmm. Thought I'd do this tonight, but it's 10:30, and I need sleep, so it'll have to wait for the weekend.

Destruyen
12-16-2010, 09:44 PM
Hmnn... I wonder if the lack of CC will mean trouble for DKs and arms & fury warriors like it was in the Burning Crusade for 5 mans.

interrupting wasn't much of an issue for fury warriors since they could pummel in berserker stance. in bc, arms warriors used berserker stance to dps so they had pummel then as well. in wotlk arms was screwed unless you didn't care about your dps and wep swapped to shield bash or stance danced to pummel. now that arms has throwdown and pummel in battle stance, they seem to be better for a 5 man heroic for interrupting duty.

uglie
12-16-2010, 10:20 PM
Hmnn... I wonder if the lack of CC will mean trouble for DKs and arms & fury warriors like it was in the Burning Crusade for 5 mans.

It shouldn't have a negative impact. I repeat SHOULDN'T, but just like people say that all dk's are bad some people and probably the same will remove dps warriors and dk's from their group because of their lack of understanding. the warriors and dk's should be interrupting/ silencing as much as possible.

Selene
12-18-2010, 01:18 PM
It shouldn't have a negative impact. I repeat SHOULDN'T, but just like people say that all dk's are bad some people and probably the same will remove dps warriors and dk's from their group because of their lack of understanding. the warriors and dk's should be interrupting/ silencing as much as possible.

Smart DKs will interrupt just like any other smart DPS.

The only "big" issue I foresee with DKs is there will be alot of dead Frost DKs.
I was DW Frost but I was dying almost every pull at times, due to the Tanks not being able to maintain proper threat on everything, even though I was DPSing the marked mob. Not sure with alot of the other classes, but Frost pulls huge threat, especially if there is a string of KM procs. Most groups I was in didn't mind it though, because before I imploded I did put out the most damage done for the fights. Liking Unholy alot better atm, not dying as often, due to over aggro, unless the tank is totally useless, and pulling higher numbers at the same time.