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Aliena
12-13-2010, 03:39 PM
kVZMP1RCivs



Hello and welcome to the TankSpot Blackwing Descent Raid Guide! My name is Aliena, and in this video I'll show you all you have to know about Magmaw, one of

the first bosses you encounter in this instance. We completed this fight with 1 tank, 7 healers and 17 DPS, but similar raid configurations may do just as

well.

Magmaw has two different phases and a LOT of abilities. In the first, regular phase, you deal normal damage to him and your goal is to keep the fight

controlled by keeping everyone healed and killing adds in a timely manner. In the second phase, when correctly executed, you deal double damage to Magmaw while

your healers can replenish their mana.

Let's start going over Magmaw's phase 1 abilities and how to deal with them. First up, positioning. You want to have three basic camps - one for your tank, one

for your melee and one for your ranged attackers and healers. Both the ranged and the melee need to have room to change their camps by at least 15 yards or so.

This is because of Magmaw's signature ability, Pillar of Flame.

Pillar of Flame has a short cast time and is usually directed at a random ranged raid members but can occasionally target a melee. When Magmaw casts it, a red

swirl shows up on the ground of the targetted raid member and 2 seconds after, a pillar will erupt in its spot and anyone remaining in the area will get lifted

into the air and take massive damage.

That's not all however. Along with the damage, lots of Lava Parasites will drop onto the ground from where the Pillar erupted. These little guys are vicious.

If they manage to attack a raid member, that person will get infected with a debuff and after 10 seconds, the debuff will explode, dealing a ton of damage to

anyone around and spawning more parasites.

To avoid this, it's really important to make sure that no raid member gets hit by the pillar and moves as soon as they're aware of it. Once the swirl appears,

immediately have a hunter apply a frost trap to the area and then have your ranged raid members - and potentially some rogues if you have trouble taking them

down in time - take out the parasites.

Pillar of Flame is roughly on a 30 second timer, so that sets the timeframe you have to kill all parasites.

Magmaw will also occasionally attempt to eat your tank with an ability called Mangle. When he places this on your tank, he takes massive damage every 5 seconds

and after 30 seconds, he will be unable to take any action while Magmaw does his omnomnom thing. To counter this, either run two tanks or, if you prefer to to

it with 1 tank, have him use a strong cooldown right before the timer is up.

All throughout the phase, Magmaw will shoot the raid with Lava Spew - ranged missiles that hit everyone and need to be healed through. His last phase 1 ability is Ignition. Ignition happens every phase 1 and will ignite about half of the room. It's easily visible since the ground starts steaming. To counter this, make sure your raid always keeps somewhat close to the middle of the room and can easily change sides.

Phase two happens when Magmaw slumps forward and the emote "Magmaw slumps forward, exposing his pincers!" appears. When this happens, three melee need to jump onto his head using the spike and spam the ability they then gain - Constricting Chains. If executed correctly, after a short while Magmaw's head will become impaled on the spike and he will take double damage while being unable to do anything.

This is the perfect opportunity for bloodlust, time warp and heroism and also for your healers to regen some mana. After a little while, Magmaw will recover and phase 1 starts over.

It's worth noting that if there's no one in Magmaw's melee range, he'll enrage and basically wipe the raid, so make sure to always have people near him.

That about covers Magmaw's abilities. I'll attach video of the full encounter so you can see in detail how we dealt with his various mechanics. Good luck and have fun!

Luvaria
12-13-2010, 07:07 PM
Do you have any more info about his Mangle ability? I've been searching everywhere and I can't find anything more than wowhead spells which are very inconsistent. I watched the vid from start to finish and I can't find and really heavy tank damage in there (110k damage would be 2/3 of their hp pool or more, every 5 secs for 30 secs), and I'm wondering what the final effect of the spell is when it's over. Is that the point where he leans over and the DPS chain him?

Sorry, just trying to get all this straight, will be heading into BWD for the first time tomorrow and hopefully will be prepared.

vhaarr
12-13-2010, 10:26 PM
Magmaw will always Mangle the tank, and the tank then gets stuck inside his mouth while Mangle ticks for lots of damage. The tank will be able to attack the head at this point, and is not stunned inside the head but can use survival cooldowns like Shield Wall (and he should!)

After a few seconds, Magmaw will be "mountable" by 3 players like the guide says, and when they all apply the chains and get him rooted, the tank is released and the Mangle DoT goes away. It does not have a duration, whatever time your players need to get Magmaw chained, that's how long the tank will have to eat the Mangle.

nauticous
12-14-2010, 06:15 AM
what are you guys using to mark the points to run to when he does his fire pillar?

Drork
12-14-2010, 06:04 PM
As Vhaarr mentioned the tank should be attacking the exposed head well being mangled. Also on 10 man (I assume 25 man) there is a debuff placed on the tank for 50% armor at the end of it. Tank swapping is generally a good idea to deal with this as it is exactly the same lenth of them as the exposed head phases.

Also if you fail to chain the head the tank will die mangle has an end of debuff effect of death.

Zantam
12-15-2010, 03:27 AM
Hey thanks for the vid :]

Question about the 10-man comp: 1 tank 3 healers 6 dps? If so, do you still need 3 melee to get on his head? or less? If you have 3 melee, do you ask 2 of them to help with the adds? Thanks!

vhaarr
12-15-2010, 04:05 AM
We used 1 tank, 3 healers, 3 melee and 3 ranged for our first kill, but you should probably go with 2 melee and 4 ranged for the first kill as it eases up on the requirements for the AoE adds.

Those AoE adds are the key to the fight. Control them or die.

Pek
12-15-2010, 07:17 AM
Only 2 people are required to jump onto Magmaw's back in 10 man. It's advised that you have ranged dps the adds since they can aoe without being in melee range and wont run the risk of getting infected.

Nauthul
12-15-2010, 02:15 PM
what are you guys using to mark the points to run to when he does his fire pillar?

That is the standard raid markers. Part of the default UI that the raid leader has access to. It was just flares in 4.0.1 and they upgraded the graphics in 4.0.3.

keyalanda
12-18-2010, 05:15 AM
do you have a 10man version of the fight?

Ciderhelm
12-19-2010, 01:19 AM
do you have a 10man version of the fight?
They're identical. We may do a 10-man version, but there are no plans for it at the moment.

Demongate
12-19-2010, 11:38 PM
Hey everyone, my guild has been having a lot of troubles on this fight on 10 man.

Our group comp is:
prot warrior & pally
ret pally
rogue
fury warrior
ele shaman
destro/demo lock
holy pally
resto shaman/druid
holy priest

We've having a hard time dealing with the parasites, we've tried a handful of different strats from tanking them and dpsing to the tank kiting them, to the ranged handling them alone with earthbind and aoe. Nothing has worked so far, I'm wondering if any of you could maybe shed some light on what we're doing wrong or could be doing better. Thanks!

So far we've only downed halfus, omnitron and argaloth.

Mahntor
12-20-2010, 01:52 AM
We had a frost dk with talented howling blast help out the ranged. Worked like a charm

vhaarr
12-20-2010, 04:12 AM
Get the warlock to spec for Shadowfury, and perhaps get the Shadowflame glyph.
Get the resto druid to put down mushrooms.
Get the paladins to put down concecrations immediately before the adds become active.
Get your Elemental Shaman to spec Earth's Grasp (and possibly Totemic Reach), and to cast a earthbind, earthquake, thunderstorm (with minor glyph) and chain lightnings on the adds. And possibly the Fire Nova totem if possible.
I probably forgot loads of stuff.

Basically respec and reglyph to anything that can provide aoe stun and damage, and use it to control those adds. They are very much the key to the fight.

keyalanda
12-22-2010, 04:53 AM
were having problems with the adds on magmaw atm everything else is fine

Vannek
12-22-2010, 10:49 AM
I would just like to get a few things clarified. Last night my guild attempted this fight on ten man. The raid comp was 1 Prot paladin, 1 resto druid, 1 holy priest, 1 fury warrior, 1 feral druid, 2 warlocks, 1 mage, 1 shadow priest, 1 holy paladin.
Anyways, it was a mess. Of all the ranged I was the only one snaring and dealing with add control. I would move out of the pillar and pet freeze them until I got close to the rest of the ranged so I could start using blizzard/ring of frost. I exhausted every ability I had to keep them slowed, snared and rooted, while trying to maximize aoe damage. Sometimes I had to move out of the group to try and kite them away since I always had aggro, to buy enough time for the ranged focused on aoeing and myself to not get hit.
Here's the kicker and as a sort of perfectionist, it's eating me up. At the end of the night, a lot of the failure was put on me, and my positioning while kiting, because I many attempts I had to move from the main group to keep from getting tagged because adds weren't dying in the 30 second window. Those adds did not touch a single ranged before the next group would spawn while the first was alive, and then it would get ugly and I of course would get over run trying to pick up another pack of parasites. I did all I could do, and after checking recount for parisite damage, I was on top in excess of 2 million. While kiting, snaring and rooting. Not 1 shadowfury from the destro lock, the demo lock wasn't specced for the HoG stun. So they were free to unload, they had nothing else to do.
What I need to know is did I do everything I could have done given the situation, and is this more likely a lack of aoe damage and more importantly lack of assistance helping me control parasites so I can also focus on aoe as well? I really feel I did everything in my power and that pinning the blame on me was unjustified. However...if by chance I could have done more I could use any and all pointers you all may have. Thanks a lot.

Draught
12-22-2010, 11:49 AM
Your entire raid failed, not you.Last night we had our first attempts on Magmaw and guess what , we wiped on his trash more than we did on him, he was down on the 5th try and not being able to kill all the adds in the 30 second window , well I like to call this epic fail,for us they were dead in under 5 seconds.All we did was basically earthbind totem , shadowfury , shadowfury while aoeing.
Raid comp :
Blood DK , Protection Paladin , Frost DK , Assassination Rogue , Holy Pala , Resto Shaman , Resto Druid , 2x Destro Lock , Frost Mage

Sempx
12-22-2010, 01:48 PM
Just took this guy down with quite a diffrent tactic. We had all dps in melee range and had a hunter to run out in order to place the Pillar of Flame and put down a trap to slow the adds.

It worked out very well!

Setup:
2 Tanks, Feral MT Warrior OT
3 Healers, Drood, Shammy and a Holy Priest
1 Melee, Fury Warrior
4 Ranged, Elemental Shammy, Fire Mage, Demo warlock and MMS Hunter.

Fusion2905
12-22-2010, 04:48 PM
Let me start by apologizing for not posting a question that has to do with the encounter itself.

I am really interested in the music that's playing in the background. From what I've managed to find on this board I learned that the score might be found on Royalty free Genres music site. There a LOT of soundtracks there, however, so I'd appreciate any info you can provide on the one used in this video.

cheers

Elemantalist
12-27-2010, 02:29 PM
the guild i'm in has alot of problems with killing the lava parasites. they forced me to play elemental instead of my resto/enhance spec so i my damage isn't viable enough? is it the problem i can't do the DPS or the whole group?

swelt
12-28-2010, 04:21 AM
Updated bossmods (we use DBM) made this a lot easier this week. There is a fairly decent timer for the Pillar of Flame (except the one immediately after the burn phases) so if you have someone watch that, call out when the pillar is soon and then again when it starts to appear, there's no excuse for people not running immediately and shifting all their attention to destroying the parasites. Other than that, I think the only thing you can do is stress the importance of parasites to the ranged dps. On our learning attempts, I had ranged doing no DPS at all to Magmaw so all they had to do was parasites. Only once they'd mastered that did we go back to them doing dps on magmaw, and then on the strict understanding that it was a secondary priority for them.

On another note, we muscled through with 1 tank this week but it seemed like the 'force tank switch' mechanic might have been buffed. Not only was he leaving a nasty armor debuff on the tank after mangle (nom nom), but he also seemed to drop threat and eat a nearby melee dps (nom nom nom) before being taunted back.

Pers3us
12-28-2010, 06:03 AM
On another note, we muscled through with 1 tank this week but it seemed like the 'force tank switch' mechanic might have been buffed. Not only was he leaving a nasty armor debuff on the tank after mangle (nom nom), but he also seemed to drop threat and eat a nearby melee dps (nom nom nom) before being taunted back.

On all of our attempts that armor debuff has always been there, as well as the threat reset after burn phases. Something weird that I have noticed is that when he's doing the animation where he straightens back out after the burn phase, he will melee someone. This is while he's still not able to be targeted, so there's really not much you can do about it besides having everyone but the tank run out right before the burn phase ends.

I've also seen something quite odd. With the 50% armor debuff he usually melees me for about 45-50k, with about 20k blocked, and then he'll rarely do some super-melee attack that hits for 80-85k hit, with about 35k blocked. I don't know if it's a bug, but it's really weird to me. That is a VERY hard hit for him. This is in 10 man by the way.

We actually haven't been able to down him yet on 10 man. Our ranged has a ton of trouble with the parasites. We had a warlock and a shaman as ranged, and even a rogue fan trixing them. Our shaman would go oom from using earthquake, and they just wouldn't die before the next set came out, making it very overwhelming. I would love to know if those classes could be doing something better, as I'd hate to have to replace people just to bring more ranged in for this fight to make it easier.

Jakhammer
12-28-2010, 10:53 AM
For those who are having trouble with Parasites (namely killing them timely), think about the existing melee dps and how they are specced. It's advantageous to have a Frost Deathknight specced into Chillblains (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=50041), use Howling Blast (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=49184) (GLYPHED (http://www.wowhead.com/item=45806)) and just spam that. It deals massive AoE damage, slows the adds and makes them very controllable. Just make sure the DK stays at ranged. For added benefit, have them kite the parasites using blood presence (make sure to turn it off before dps'ing the boss!!!).

Another tip that was mentioned before - yet worth mentioning again - is to have only ONE ranged out 30 yards (prefer hunter). The pillar will always (based on the 8 attempts we had) appear under him/her. That way you are only dealing with one player's ability to 'not stand in fire'.

Tip: Frost trap covers up the majority of the Pillar of Flame graphic/texture. Use with caution.

Tsy
12-28-2010, 01:31 PM
My guild is having the exact opposite problem. We move from Flame Pillars and such just fine, kill the adds ok, but our tank keeps dying because the melee aren't spiking the head fast enough, and our tank is dying due to the Mangle debuff which instagibs you.

Apparently the ability has a 6 second CD? Is there anyone who has personally hopped on top of the worm (I'm a healer and can't do it myself) and can confirm/clarify? Thanks.

zebrahed
12-28-2010, 02:25 PM
For those who are having trouble with Parasites (namely killing them timely), think about the existing melee dps and how they are specced. It's advantageous to have a Frost Deathknight specced into Chillblains (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=50041), use Howling Blast (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=49184) (GLYPHED (http://www.wowhead.com/item=45806)) and just spam that. It deals massive AoE damage, slows the adds and makes them very controllable. Just make sure the DK stays at ranged. For added benefit, have them kite the parasites using blood presence (make sure to turn it off before dps'ing the boss!!!).


Any Frost DK that doesn't have the HB Glyph is just bad :P But ya, Chillblains is also super useful so far in BWD/BoT. Lots of adds to snare/kite/dps.

The fight should be super easy to do as a DK. Just blood strike the boss twice off the bat to build Death Runes, and you can feel free to burn your other two sets of U/F runes, then frost strike a bit to at least get back an U rune. Get ready to throw down DND at the lava spout location and switch to Blood Presence. HB from range, preferably from the other side of the room, then kite them in a circle until everyone else downs them. You should have time to run back in, and generate two more blood strikes on the boss before the cycle repeats. Not only will you have 100% aggro on every parasite, you'll actually do decent DPS to boot. Keep in mind, that HB is likely to be nerfed on this and Cho'gal alone ;P

Keep out for Ignition, as he'll be about to slump over shortly after, then go back to Frost presence, and DPS as normal.

Also, be sure to utilize ERW and Bloodtap if the DPS is too slow on adds, as HB will snare them, and do a majority of the ranged DPS as well.


My guild is having the exact opposite problem. We move from Flame Pillars and such just fine, kill the adds ok, but our tank keeps dying because the melee aren't spiking the head fast enough, and our tank is dying due to the Mangle debuff which instagibs you.

Apparently the ability has a 6 second CD? Is there anyone who has personally hopped on top of the worm (I'm a healer and can't do it myself) and can confirm/clarify? Thanks.

There can be some confusion at first if people who don't usually do this phase, jump onto him. All you do is jump on, press 1, and then target the spike in front of him. It should take maybe 4 seconds max to do this. If someone is screwing up, have a different person jump onto him, and keep those same people doing it. It really shouldn't be the challenging part of this fight :P As far as a cooldown, there is a small one. You definitely can't continue to spam the chains if you, somehow, screw up connecting it to the front spike.

gacktt
12-28-2010, 11:09 PM
Magmaw having that completely idiotic 10 second chain animation delay(when he has 3 chains already applied) before he goes to the burn phase is a real annoyance, HURR DURR 300k MORE ON TANK AND A LAST MINUTE AOE BREATH.

Aberen
12-29-2010, 05:29 AM
We tried having only one at ranged last night, first pillar in melee. :(

gacktt
12-29-2010, 05:36 AM
You need 4 ranged to ensure no volcano spawns on melee(10m). Usually have me + 3 healers + 2 dps just besides magmaw doing our stuff, and 4 ranged guys running around killing worms, worms spawned on melee when the lock died for no good reason.

Daimon
12-29-2010, 07:30 AM
Is this confirmed like Vexazz shadow crashes that you have to have a minimun # in range for the ability not target melee? The newest change to the fight was pillar of flame not hitting within 15yd in melee range, but idk if that's only with a minimum outside.

Porthos
12-30-2010, 03:42 AM
I would also appreciate some clarification on how the Pillar of Flame works if 9 out of the 10 raiders are in melee range. Just sounds way too easy if it will always prefer a ranged target no matter if there's only 1.

klausi
12-30-2010, 04:11 AM
@Porthos
Just read two postings above, four people are required.

We (10r) don't switch tanks during melt armor, yes it's an increased damage taken but if you have enough hitpoints to survive two regular hits you should be fine thanks to ticking hots/earthshield/beacon/etc. I only took 3 regular hits for 78k average on our last kill while i blocked all other 29 and there was nothing ordinary about the numbers (roughly 60% block 25% miss 15% hits). Magma Spew won't hit you so there are only those Lava Spews left (hitting for laughable 13kish with 195 fire resistance).

And yes you'll always have to taunt back after the exposed head phase just have your melees wait TWO seconds before reengage him.

Andenthal
12-30-2010, 03:28 PM
Some things we learned the hard way in our group:

If healers are standing at absolute max range, they may need to move up a step or 2 to be in range of the tank when he gets "eaten".

Save tank CDs for once you're inside the mouth - not before he eats you.

When melee need to jump on his back to impale him on the spike - sometimes when the first player does it, it takes a second or 2 before it will allow the 2nd player will be able to jump up there. Just keep spamming your click, or whatever. If the 2nd player is delayed, the first player needs to wait a bit to syncronzie the chains, as they need to happen within about a ~5 sec window. Doing this correctly will save a lot of healing on the tank (and possibly a death), and get you to that double damage phase quicker.

We found that it was best to have more players focuing on the worms, rather than trying to have 1 or 2 take care of it. We even had a DK help out with Howling Blast kiting and other ranged abilities (was a very melee heavy group). Basically, if you're having trouble with the adds, someone is probably DPSing the boss when they should be DPSing the adds. Don't let players get away with the "I don't have any AE" excuse. The adds in 10 man mode have ~80k HP IIRC, single target works just fine.

Porthos
12-30-2010, 03:31 PM
Appreciate the reply, what you say makes sense. Have just seen several postings in other sites as well as here where folks are leaving just the 1 person in ranged, but this was the only thread where someone mentioned needing 4. Thanks for confirming.

Ogri
12-30-2010, 03:47 PM
You need 4 ranged to ensure no volcano spawns on melee(10m). Usually have me + 3 healers + 2 dps just besides magmaw doing our stuff, and 4 ranged guys running around killing worms, worms spawned on melee when the lock died for no good reason.

This is not correct, on our 10 man kill tonight we used a Hunter standing around 25-30 yards at range and the rest of the raid hugging in melee range to one side of his head (except for the tank ofc). I have never seen a flame pillar hit anyone in melee range.

Every single flame pillar hits the hunter who is the only one standing at range, who then drops a frost trap, runs to the raid and helps out with nuking the adds down as they come towards the raid. With the adds down, he runs back to his spot to draw the next pillar.

Works like a charm, the only time the raid has to move at all is if you get Ignition on "your" side, in which case the raid runs over to the other side of the bosses head.

When it comes to spiking the boss, we have two assigned ppl to do it (usually melee DPS), who jumps up, count to 3 and then spikes at the same time. Also works very well.

Dont bother with 2 tanks, if your MT is Heroic/crafted epic gear (which he should be) and your healers are competent, the tank will do just fine.

jr3L
12-31-2010, 04:25 AM
Another tip that was mentioned before - yet worth mentioning again - is to have only ONE ranged out 30 yards (prefer hunter). The pillar will always (based on the 8 attempts we had) appear under him/her. That way you are only dealing with one player's ability to 'not stand in fire'.

Tip: Frost trap covers up the majority of the Pillar of Flame graphic/texture. Use with caution.

Can anyone confirm if this is valid or not?

I seen videos do it, but when we tried it, he would still spawn the Pillar on our melee.

Is there something we're overlooking? Is it possible our hunter was too far?

Xarkar
12-31-2010, 08:19 AM
Last week my guild killed this guy on 10m, with relative ease once we all figured out a working strat.

This week, we went back, and we were having issues with him. We would be plugging along doing the same thing as before when all of a sudden a melee would get 1 shot and die. I am not really sure whats going on. Do you think its just the magma spit hitting a player that wasnt high enough health?

am19228
12-31-2010, 09:53 AM
I've also got a question: My guild keeps wiping on this guy (10 man), and I'm not sure why. The guild thinks its because people are getting hit by the pillar of flame, they say that that gives the adds more hp (they had 118k). But, I haven't read that anywhere else, according to DBM the pillar just does about 25k dmg and maybe some fall dmg. Since only 1 or 2 people are getting hit per attempt I'm not convinced that that's the problem we should be focusing on.

Our other problem was the adds, so our 2 warlocks volunteered to handle them by blowing cooldowns and using hellfire and maybe (not sure) shadowfury. They kill the adds pretty fast, but theyre getting infected too, and a few seconds later two more adds spawn. The guild thinks that its a managable tradeoff, but I suspect that other people are getting infected too. Seems like we always have a couple of adds up, even during the impale phase. All I know for sure is that after a couple of pillars, the whole raid is taking massive damage and healers can't keep up. I've read that infected people damage surrounding players for "a ton of damage", and I'm wondering if THAT is whats killing us.

Thoughts?

Ogri
12-31-2010, 04:16 PM
Can anyone confirm if this is valid or not?

I seen videos do it, but when we tried it, he would still spawn the Pillar on our melee.

Is there something we're overlooking? Is it possible our hunter was too far?

Its very likely a case of one of your healers or ranged dps moving just outside of melee range (big boss but small hitbox). Happened to us a couple of times due to ppl not paying attention. Given that your Hunter is actually within range of the boss ofc. We put him at 25-30 yards.

Ogri
12-31-2010, 04:22 PM
I've read that infected people damage surrounding players for "a ton of damage", and I'm wondering if THAT is whats killing us.

Thoughts?

You cant ever have the worms actually coming into the raid. The single most important thing in the whole encounter is killing (slow and AoE) the adds before they reach the raid and doing it before the next pillar hits. Have your locks spec/glyph for Shadowfury and/or Demonology and use the Felguard to control the adds.

Aliena
12-31-2010, 04:24 PM
Most boss encounters have a minimum number of ranged targets required to avoid ranged abilities targeting melee. The magic number for 10-man is 3, and for 25-man 7. However, my guild has not done this on 10-man nor tried to pile people up in melee, so I can't confirm or deny how Magmaw's mechanism works.

Ogri
12-31-2010, 04:50 PM
Most boss encounters have a minimum number of ranged targets required to avoid ranged abilities targeting melee. The magic number for 10-man is 3.


I dont think this is correct in Magmaws case, my guild has managed a total of 34 attempts on Magmaw 10-man and not a single time has anyone who is standing in melee range drawn a Flame Pillar.

It has always targeted the lone Hunter standing at his preset spot 25-30 yards away, except for 2-3 random screwups when a healer or ranged DPS accidentaly stepped out of melee range and thus became an eligible target for the Flame Pillar as well.

I guess its possible we have just been insanely lucky, but looking at the numbers I cant really imagine that being the case.

Aliena
12-31-2010, 04:58 PM
Fair enough! As I said, that's just what they usually do, Magmaw might well be different.

Yokel
01-02-2011, 07:09 AM
Thank you for yet another great video :D Me and the guild are going to do the first attempt in a few days, hopefully it will go smothely

twelvefortyseven
01-02-2011, 04:49 PM
Thank you so much for another great vid!!

Just curious, does anyone know what that addon is that is tracking cooldowns on a single bar (scrolling right to left)?

Dasset
01-02-2011, 06:03 PM
Went up against Magmaw tonight on 10-man. We were unsuccessful. However it did get a bit easier when only having a hunter on range, and the rest in melee.

We had 1 tank: Prot Warrior.
3 Healers: Resto Druid, Holy Pala and Resto Shaman.
And a somewhat setup of DPS: Warrior, Rogue, Mage, Balance Druid, Shadow Priest, Hunter.

As mentioned we only had the Hunter on range and he always got the pillar of flame. If it gets into your melee-position chances are one of you is standing too far out (we failed on that once).

What beat us was us being too slow on killing adds. Also when the adds came too close to melee-range, people had to move and spread out a bit too much which didn't help the healing too much. So more or less communication, lack of AoE-focus and a few other individual mistakes made us fail.

If your guild is bashing your heads against this boss I would recommend trying Defense System instead. Believe it or not it's actually easier as long as people have checked out what the trons do. It's also good practice on perception and awareness. ;)





Thank you so much for another great vid!!

Just curious, does anyone know what that addon is that is tracking cooldowns on a single bar (scrolling right to left)?
Looks a bit like CoolLine

Azshira
01-03-2011, 04:55 PM
Did this on our second try and this tankspot video did excellent work for us. We did it on 10man with the following setup:

1 tank, 3 healers, 2 melee and 4 range

Pala Tank
Holy Pala, x2 Resto Shaman
Ele Shaman
Surv Hunter
Fire Mage
Boomkin
Frost DK
Ret Pala

We stayed in the middle of the room and moved to either left or right when the parasites where incoming. The ranged + Frost DK focused on the adds down. The DK had chillbrains and glyphed HB to really help out. The Hunter placed a frost trap and the others just blasted at the adds and any extra slows etc worked like a charm. Use your mana regen cooldowns and stuff during the nuke phase if you can and you'll probably end up with full or near full mana, rinse and repeat.

To be honest we had more wipes on the 2 Drudges before the encounter lol, about 4-5? We brought in a second tank for the Drudges and 1shotted them. Spread each Drudge to the left and right of the room and they'll charge each tank (they charge the furthest away target). The rest of the raid should stay in the middle of the room and focus nuke on 1 to 10% then focus nuke the other down and quickly take out the remaining Drudge. Make sure no one is directly in line with the charge only the tank so there's no extra damage.

Hope this helps, all the best.

Ceejay
01-04-2011, 01:16 PM
Hey guys, looking for a little help. I am a prot pally solo tanking this fight on ten man. We are using the strat where everyone stands in melee except for one ranged which seems to be working out great. The one problem that I am having is getting aggro back after the head phase. He always seems to target someone right away and one shot or just about one shot that person before I can get a taunt off. Anyone have any suggestions on how I can better deal with this? Thanks for your input.

Faytlynn
01-04-2011, 01:41 PM
We were having trouble burning down the adds on 10 man. We had our hunter MD the Lava Parasites to his pet. Worked like a charm. Hopes this helps some of ya'll out.

CombatJack
01-04-2011, 10:13 PM
As a deathknight, I switched to Frost for this fight(10 man) and it was amazing how much easier it got. Chillblains+howling blast+glyph=awesome.

Basically I would blood strike twice on the boss to get the death runes and save them for the parasites. When Magmaw casts pillar of flame I drop a DnD and spam 4 howling blasts. Works very well.

We used the "1 ranged" strategy where we had a hunter at range and everyone else was in melee range for optimal AOE heals. I noticed that when I would leave melee range to kill parasites I would get blasted by Magmaws two fire ball abilities. I would rotate AMS and IBF as much as possible when killing parasites to reduce the damage of those abilities. If your AOE people in melee are pulling aggro on the parasites try switching to Blood Presence for the adds, then back to frost when they are dead. I had zero trouble holding aggro on the parasites with blood presence.

arctempest
01-04-2011, 11:58 PM
Frost Death Knight "tanking" proved very successful on my guild's 25 man kill last night. On our successful attempt we just had all DPS ignore the parasites completely as I kited them for the entire fight.

For any folks using a similar strategy, remember to glyph Hungering Cold and use it to condense the parasite horde into a smaller area whenever you can. This will help you ensure that Howling Blast hits all of them with a single application.

Kinch
01-05-2011, 01:15 AM
We MD'd a Doomguard to tank the parasites for our 25 kill. Highly recommended.

Ridan
01-05-2011, 03:53 AM
Al in melee but one is exelent ESPES if you are using a DK as stated above. Took us 2 tries using this tach to get it down a few days ago. Against whiping a shitload before :).

As to the fact that mag just random hits a melee. There are 2 ways to deal with this 1 make sure everyone is topped off when the hit lands. Its hard as hell but at full health U will not die. 2. Make sure everyone runs out abit just before he goes up and U should be able to avoid it.

Noralocka
01-05-2011, 06:40 AM
Well, My guild just downed this boss on our first night of attempting him, we had 3 tanks, 2 warrior and 1 paladin, 1 warrior just kited the entire fight with 3 of our warlocks using Shadowfury on Cd, the rest of the group just sat in the corner in melee range
The only problem with this strategy is that sometimes the tank that is kiting, or any of the casters that are outside helping out the tank who is kiting might get out of range of healers, so all you have to do is make sure your in healers range, seeing as how they have to stack very close to the boss, you cant have them coming out to heal you or else you will get a pillar when they walk out to heal you.
Hope this helps <3

Caelins
01-05-2011, 07:14 AM
After several wipes on this guy due to the parasites we decided that we needed to be slightly more proactive on the adds rather than expecting one or two ranged members to just deal with it.

Our DPS set up for this raid consisted of;
Frost Mage
Demo Warlock
Hunter
Rogue
Enhancement Shaman

We basically ran it like this...

Pillar of flame, all ranged run to the predesignated spot in the room with the hunter dropping traps on the way, our rogue dropped tricks on the mage and then began the FoK spam, along with a hunter MD onto said mage and multi shot spam. This allowed our warlock to start running around like a madman with hellfire with no fear of grabbing aggro. All this with a ring of frost, cone of cold and blizzard from the mage.


All in all with this strategy of EVERYONE helping out where they can with the parasites it was then a pretty easy kill and the adds lasted less than 10 seconds on each spawn.

Qtr
01-05-2011, 11:46 PM
We had great success only using 1 tank.

For adds we just had our fire mage kite every add for the entire duration of the fight. This sounds crazy but it actually worked he just ran circles with all the adds from the whole fight while we nuked down the boss with all the healers and ranged dps directly on top of melee.

Angryknight
01-06-2011, 01:12 AM
We did the dk kite method tonight for our first kill tonight... kiting the parasites near the melee group allowing them to use aoe to kill the parasites before they ever got near the kite tank. We had tried the method in the video for a couple nights but seemed to lose tanks when the healers moved.

Jakhammer
01-06-2011, 12:32 PM
For those of you who are still getting flame pillars in (near) the melee "stack" group... tuck closer to the boss. We got one last night, and identified that the individual who caused it was standing at JUST OUTSIDE melee range. Stack up tight!!!

Also, one-tanking this is perfectly viable. Save tanking CD's for the NOM NOM phase, too.

Lastly - your healers should have near full mana by the time the head phase is over. There is no damage during this phase, so tell them to sit back and relax for 15-20 seconds. Bloodlust/Heroism is essential for this phase, too.

Jahrakal
01-07-2011, 07:16 AM
U can put all Ranges in the Melee Camp. And let one Tank do the Parasites.
[ For Warriors: Rend - Thunderclap - Shock wave -> and heal yourself with Victory Rush ]
no one have to move this way, except when mag maw is casting this one spell right after he ate the tank.
1 Mag maw Tank
1 Parasite Tank [ Warrior seems to be the best option, because of their immense Self healing]
3 Healers
5 Damage - Dealer [ if you have a hunter, your parasite tank just have to be a bit faster at picking up the parasites and the Hunter has to move a bit]


[ Sry for the bad English ]

Mad cow
01-07-2011, 08:56 AM
1 Parasite Tank [ Warrior seems to be the best option, because of their immense Self healing]
Self healing is irrelevant, there's no reason to tank them, you are only spawning more parasites and wasting healer mana. Done this with both the frost DK with Chillblains and a Fury warrior using piercing howl to kite while ranged burns them down. AOE snares are amazing here and make the fight a lot simpler.

Straif
01-07-2011, 10:38 AM
Can anyone confirm the lone hunter trick works for 25 man as well? Im wondering if on 10s it only requires one but maybe 3 or 4 on 25s. If we try this week I'll re-post. Would be nice to know a head of time tho :D

Jahrakal
01-07-2011, 12:36 PM
@ Madcow
The purpose of the tactic is, that only one person is needed to deal with the parasites. The rest can focus on healing / dealing dmg. And victory rush heals [ if glyphed ] for about 60k after u kill one enemy .... there are about 10 parasite, aoe them low, and than kill them one after the other, the healer dont even have to target u

smcn
01-09-2011, 01:26 AM
Just downed him in a pug. The key to getting this boss down is realizing that there are many ways of dealing with the parasites, and finding the strategy that works for your group. Don't be afraid to wildly change your strat between each pull. After trying 4 different things we settled on stacking everyone with the melee side of the boss except a fire mage (you read that correctly) who took the job of kiting adds.

I found the most frustrating thing about this fight to be the aggro reset after the impale phase. At least one person got gibbed by this during each attempt, even the successful one.

kaempf
01-10-2011, 10:30 AM
My guild is having a little trouble with this guy. We have only gone at him once and we git him past phase one fine but at the end of phase two right when he resets to phase one our dps is getting pelted by the pillar. We use one tank on one side of the room with a ranged(hunter) standing towards the middle around 15 meters away from the boss with all other dps (ranged and melee) opposite the tank. During the whole first phase of the fight the pillar gets shot in the middle of the room by the hunter. After the second phase, when he stands back up the pillar is summoned right were all the dps is standing... Is anyone else having an issue with this, is it random where the pillar is summoned?

Thanks in advance

Quinafoi
01-10-2011, 11:06 AM
I believe in order to make sure the pillar isn't cast on melee you need a preset number of ranged targets, similar to many other boss mechanics. If you don't have sufficient people at range then the targeting pool includes those in melee range. Haven't done any thorough testing on the particular encounter but I would imagine it requires 4 ranged targets on 10 man and 10 ranged targets on 25 man, give or take a few. If your strategy involves only the hunter standing at range then I would say this is your flaw. You should several people at range and they all have to dodge the pillar when it occurs however should still be stacked up to make sure the pillars occur in a predicable place.

Now the fact that you have seen it targeting the hunter could simply be luck based. Like I said, mechanics like this tend to have a set number of targets. For example, if he simply picks one of the four furthest targets, you'd still have a 25% chance of the hunter being picked if they were the only target at range.

Like I said though I haven't done thorough testing of this particular mechanic, I'm only basing this on similar boss mechanics we've seen in the past 6 years of the game. Such as Vile Gas from Festergut in Icecrown Citadel, in order to make sure it was never cast on melee you needed a certain number of ranged targets for him to choose from (3 in 10 man, 7 in 25 man in that particular case).

Ridan
01-10-2011, 11:28 AM
Im fairly almost 100% sure the issue is NOT that the pillar aims for melee cause you lack range im fairly sure what happens to you guys is that when magmav goes down your "melee" group moves abit to far from melee range.

Rem you ALWAYS gotta stack up in melee doing this when he is down might be abit tricky for some tended to happen abit to us to forcing the range to be in the right spot with Leap of Faith did the trick thou that and abit of yelling on vent :P We have had bout 15 pillars or so lately AL but one targetad our 1 and single range that for me is not luck thats a mechanic. However the one that failed was out melee DK moving away abit late to pick up the adds he walked just out of range hence we got the pillar just beside our range ("melee")

Jakhammer
01-10-2011, 01:21 PM
My guild is having a little trouble with this guy. We have only gone at him once and we git him past phase one fine but at the end of phase two right when he resets to phase one our dps is getting pelted by the pillar. We use one tank on one side of the room with a ranged(hunter) standing towards the middle around 15 meters away from the boss with all other dps (ranged and melee) opposite the tank. During the whole first phase of the fight the pillar gets shot in the middle of the room by the hunter. After the second phase, when he stands back up the pillar is summoned right were all the dps is standing... Is anyone else having an issue with this, is it random where the pillar is summoned?

Thanks in advance

No, the pillar is not random. What is happening here is that your "melee" stacking group isn't truely stacked in melee range. If just ONE of those players is 2 yards beyond melee range, you're likely to get a pillar right then and there.

Ogri
01-11-2011, 07:04 AM
If you have only one person standing outside melee range when Pillar is being cast, it will always target him. Period. Might be different on 25 man so no promises there.

Given that you are lucky enough to have all of the Ignitions on the opposing side, the entire raid except for assigned Pillar soaker (and Spike jumpers) should not have to move a single step during the entire fight using the lone Hunter tactic.

Vogul
01-11-2011, 07:30 AM
With reference to 25man

While I cannot 100% confirm it becuase we only used a lone hunter for our last 5 attempts right now we think it might work. We might just have been very lucky with RNG but on at least 12 occasions the pillar has only targeted our sole ranged guy. We found you need to be very very careful if someone strayed a couple of yards out as they would almost always get the pillar.

This seemed to work well until about 50% when parasites would start getting into the raid. My feeling is we are probably just a touch short on gear so we are loosing the battle of attrition against the raid damage and keeping enough DPS alive to deal with the adds.

Would be interested in hearing if anyone else has any success with this.

kaempf
01-12-2011, 08:10 AM
Thanks guys for all the help. We are going back in tonight and I will let you know tomorrow how it turns out.

Our melee stack group was definitely out of melee range. They were backing away from magmaw in fear of his melee attack while the tank tries to grab agro again when he stands back up.

Thanks again!

Michultradk
01-12-2011, 10:05 AM
Thanks everyone for posting their strats here.

Our guild downed him last night using the Hunter as bait and after 3 tries with everyone getting use to it we were able to take him down. We also had 2 Hunters in our group and stacked them together and then they would stagger thier traps towards the raid and it worked like a charm. Luckily we never had a pillar form in the raid with everyone standing in melee range along the front of the boss, with me tanking on the right.

sorednbored
01-13-2011, 08:47 AM
I'm after a little bit of clarification on the Mangle mechanic. We downed him after 3 or 4 wipes last night, but I'm sure that we can make things easier on ourselves.

If an experienced Tank could just give a bit of detailed information about how the mechanic works - i.e. when he uses it, when to pop cooldowns, when to top the tank up, when and if to taunt & tank switch etc. We just kind of muddled through it last night. Which is fine as we got the kill, but I like our kills to be as a result of comprehensive knowledge of the encounter, not just due to a bit of good luck & guesswork.

As I said, we downed him, but we want to make it easier. We're going to try some of the suggestions made in this Thread for dealing with the Parasites as well.

robbymo
01-13-2011, 09:45 AM
I'm not sure of the exact c/d on Mangle (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=89773#comments), it seems like he does it a minute after he finishes the prior one. DBM has a very accurate timer on this ability.

As far as warrior tanks go you can pop your first cooldown after he starts chewing on you, this is easy to spot because he throws you in the air and into his mouth. I start with a shield wall and call it out, the pally healer that is assigned to me stands in melee range and easily keeps me alive. For the second one I will pop last stand with enraged regeneration. By the time the third comes shield wall is off c/d and can be used again. You can use last stand again if you get a fourth mangle.

It's very important that the tank gets back into melee range after the impale that follows the mangle before he one shots your healer (or whomever is closest).

Kinch
01-13-2011, 10:45 AM
(25 player notes)
Mangle is cast about every 90 seconds. The target can pop cooldowns while being Mangled. Mangle will stop when Magmaw is pulled down on the spike. The target will get spit out and Sweltering Armor will be applied, which lasts 90 seconds and reduces armor 50 percent. (Meaning that if there is not a tank switch, the tank will be at 50 percent armor the rest of the encounter.) Your raid needs to be efficient on the pulldown. If Mangle runs for 30 seconds, the target will die (Mangled Lifeless is applied).

Scotthew
01-13-2011, 06:05 PM
Thanks for another great vid Aliena, and thanks everyone for posting their strats here.

We killed Magmaw our second night using two tanks rotating on boss, everyone stacked in melee save a lone hunter, and a Moonkin, Fire Mage, Destro Lock, and Hunter for AOE. It was fairly challenging for such an early encounter imo, but once we got the adds under control, it all came together.

I had a few questions: For those of you using a single tank, how are you dealing with the 50% armor debuff? That's a huge increase in damage to just heal through it for 90% of the fight.

For those of you kiting adds with warrior tanks, are you keeping them slowed? Does the warrior need a good bit of heals? Other general tips?

For those of you killing parasites, how much AoE are you bringing? To get it done we had four ranged AoE, this seems like a stiff 'requirement' for a 10-man group imo.

Thanks all.

Ogri
01-14-2011, 02:14 AM
I had a few questions: For those of you using a single tank, how are you dealing with the 50% armor debuff? That's a huge increase in damage to just heal through it for 90% of the fight.

For those of you killing parasites, how much AoE are you bringing? To get it done we had four ranged AoE, this seems like a stiff 'requirement' for a 10-man group imo.

Thanks all.


On the tank (our MT is a PP) I guess its never been a problem, at least our healers are not complaining. We use a Resto Shaman for dedicated group healing and the other two (HP and RD) have the tank prio and only spot heal the raid. The tank damage is predictable, evenly spread and lacks spikes which makes it easy to counter with HoTs and steady healing saving the tanks CDs for Mangle.

On the AoE bit, last night we used the "Pillar" Hunter, a Mage and a Demonology specced Warlock for handling the parasites.

Its easy to get fixated on the AoE capabilities alone but this is only part of the handling. The other and IMO far more important part is control which in this case means the Hunter making sure the Pillar spawns at close to max range to the ranged DPS (if they cant reach you before they die, they cant hit you) and the warlocks Felguard and/or the Hunters pet aggroing the parasites (which ofc should spawn in the middle of the Hunters Frost Trap to begin with).

FoxyMuffinz
01-14-2011, 02:41 AM
So that Debuff that he gives you, can you take it off that person or do they have to actually take the damage?

Haur
01-14-2011, 02:54 AM
On the tank (our MT is a PP) I guess its never been a problem, at least our healers are not complaining. We use a Resto Shaman for dedicated group healing and the other two (HP and RD) have the tank prio and only spot heal the raid. The tank damage is predictable, evenly spread and lacks spikes which makes it easy to counter with HoTs and steady healing saving the tanks CDs for Mangle.


I dont know how to call tank damage predictable, you are getting hammered with white hits for 50k on debuffed boss every 3 sec when unlucky, coupled with aoe and everything. After mangle and before debuffs wer eup our tank ate hefty 90k hit that put him on floor.

We had some issues yesterday doing it on 10 man, we killed him last week with 1 tank 3 healers and 6 dps (4 ranged). Last week we had me (prot warrior) tanking the boss, ranged and some healers were outside, walking left and right when pillar killing parasites. We werent doing great be he went down.

Yesterday we tried same tactic, with 2 of 3 same healers as last week but ranged people kept dying as flies from his random spits, we had prot pala with worse gear then mine tanking and things were overall mess. After some time we tried with me tanking the worms, aoe switch to them for 10 sec to nuke most of them out, but since i had debuffs i would spawn extra ones that i would simply offtank until next batch. Everyone else besides poor hunter was hugging the boss, and was taking way way less damage then on tries they were outside.

Problem is our 3 healers are really struggling with damage overall, and i cant see any way to ease up that, sadly we dont have dks to kite and kill worms. If we had everyone inside (besides hunter) even slowed worms started reaching healers and ranged dps camp and making even more mess.

Our healers were putting out around 30k total hps and we just cant cut it. Granted not everyone is in 350+ gear but so far it seems we are really riding the bullet and hoping for lucky streaks or just bring 4 healers.

Haur
01-14-2011, 03:06 AM
So that Debuff that he gives you, can you take it off that person or do they have to actually take the damage?

Afaik, debuff can be boubled once with pala, bouble on other person doesnt work. So with one tank you are still having it for most of the fight.

Maeby
01-14-2011, 03:56 AM
We downed him in ten man using 1 Prot Warrior Tank and 1 Prot Warrior on the adds. The rest of the group stacked on the boss on the opposite side from the tank. We got a "pillar in melee" the first attempt, but it turned out that one of our healers was too far out from the group. Once we all stacked as close to the edge as possible, it has never happened again.

The Prot Warrior kited the adds around, and killed them fairly quickly. With his Piercing Howl and stacks of Vengeance and whatever else warriors do, he did 27k DPS and had no problems downing the adds and staying alive. With the adds out of the way, we were free to burn boss the whole time. Don't be tempted to try and have a ranged turn around and try to "help" with the parasites. You'll only pull them off the Warrior, and bring them to your group.

It was a touch healing intensive for a bit because the Tank takes the armor debuff, and with only one tank, he has it from the end of the first Mangle, to the end of the fight. But, since the DPS didn't have to deal with adds, and focused on the boss the whole time, we had more DPS then we needed, and opted to have our DPS Shammy go Resto for the slam dunk. I'm sure that three good healers could handle it, but if you have the option, four heals doesn't slow the fight down much at all, and makes it cake on everyone.

A couple things:

When Magmaw is first chained, he flops around, and he can stun you while getting spiked. Not great for a healer during that phase. Also, when Magmaw first comes back off the spike, he seems to randomly melee someone. Have everyone back up once he's ready to be spiked and for the burn phases, and quickly get back into position again once the tank has it, and no one should get stunned or smacked in the face.

Ogri
01-14-2011, 04:44 AM
I dont know how to call tank damage predictable, you are getting hammered with white hits for 50k on debuffed boss every 3 sec when unlucky, coupled with aoe and everything. After mangle and before debuffs wer eup our tank ate hefty 90k hit that put him on floor.


There is a difference between heavy and predictable damage. Magmaw does both, he is a slow hitting Melee boss which is all about white, steady damage. Healing has to reflect that. The AoE comes at 25 second intervals, also predictable.

If your tank end up dead after mangle due to a 90K hit he is either not topped up which he should be since you can with some certainty predict a heavy hit at that particular moment, also the tank is probably not making the most of his cooldowns.

Above ofc dependant on that you actually have proper gear, Magmaw is more then anything a gear check. If your healers and especially tank dont live up to the a certain gear level you wont make it without depending on luck.

Tailsz
01-14-2011, 12:10 PM
A quick tip for all you cats out there that want to be behind him. If you ask your tank to turn magmaw a bit you can get at his back without having to dangle yourself off the ledge.

If your tank doesnt turn magmaw and tanks him straight on you can still get an angle on his back but it's a *very* precarious spot. One may find themselves in the lava if one is not careful... not that I would know.. :p

Celwindia
01-17-2011, 04:49 PM
Regarding a few things being mentioned in this thread regarding the fight.

Firstly, we were having a problem getting the Lava Pillars in "melee." It was helpful to have someone call out a "reset" when there was 5-8 seconds until the next Lava Pillar. Upon hearing the reset, any raid members that were out a little bit DPSing the adds, knew to snug right back into melee range. That might help some of you that consistently have the Pillar spawn in melee.

Secondly, we were having trouble taking the adds out in time, even with 4 ranged on them. What ended up working for us, was having the Rogue help us out too. Our rogue was Assassination, and so he had 2/2 Deadly Brew, meaning he was auto-applying Crippling Poison to everything as well. As soon as the Lava was on the ground, he'd pop out of melee and get ready. As soon as they were spawning, he put ToTT on one of the ranged, and FoKd until Tricks dropped off. That strategy trivialized the fight, and removed the need for a ton of AoE snaring, and allowed our ranged to focus more on just burning them up.

Also, we only had an issue with the post-spike aggro reset once, and it was one of the Shadowpriests. I started calling out for priests to Fade when his head came up, and it became an easy kill.

Great video guide, cheers and good luck.

briarfox
01-19-2011, 03:36 PM
We did it last night with just a Blood DK tank at range kiting the mobs. Didn't have any issue at all.

briarfox
01-20-2011, 06:59 AM
Please note, this info is considered to be accurate as of the writing of this post. There is a possibility this method may be nerfed by Blizzard in the future.

For the second week in a row, we've downed Magmaw using the "easy mode" strat. I have anecdotal, yet reliable, word from 2 other raiding guilds on the server that have done it this way as well.

Magmaw Easy Mode:

Rather then splitting the raid and having your rdps run across the room, instead have all but a designated range kiter (we used a Blood DK tank with great success) stack with the melee camp. And when I mean stack, I mean get right up on his junk. This is the most important aspect of easy mode. The fireball/parasite spew will only hit people at range. Magmaw's hitbox is incredibly tight, however, and "at range" is a lot closer then you think.

So anyway. You have a tank at one side of the ledge, like normal, and you have a melee camp on the other side (like normal) joined by the rdps that would normally be at range. You have one designated kiter (hunter or DK seems to work best) remain at range. Now you burn the boss. That simple. The range kiter will move about in the room, similar to what Rdps did in the video, to avoid the flame pillars. Instead of worrying about burning any of the adds, dps remains on magmaw the entire time, instead allowing the ranged person to pick up and hold aggro on the parasites, and kite them around the room. Pop hero when the head falls, burn him, rinse, repeat, profit. It REALLY is that simple. That being said, a few caveats.

Approaching Magmaw this way forces range to think like melee, which is something they may have difficulty with. Tank positioning is important due to Magmaw's cleave, which can shred a clothy if he's faced too near the dps pool. His ground slam when he falls is something to be aware of too, positioning wise. Managing the occurrence of the steam vent, wherein half the room gets blasted, is also important. You can try to have your dps pool and tank switch places, but we found that such a thing was difficult to execute, especially while maintaining proper proximity to magmaw. While the steamblast hits moderately hard, a better geared raid may prefer to just heal through it (a feat made easier given that dps is concentrated in a small area).

Hunters provide a dilemma as well, given their need for range. Our hunter was able to dps at 2 yards (looked more like 5, honestly) and that didn't seem to trigger magmaw's flame pillar. Even so, hunter positioning leaves NO room for error and it may be wiser to have any hunters remain at range and simply avoid the flame pillar, kiting tank and the adds. Up to you. Again, I cannot stress enough how important it is that everyone be stacked as close to magmaw as humanly possible (watch the ledge).

As for kiters, you may be surprised how much of the room you use for kiting. You may find yourself having to dip near the raid. This is cool, just leave a little buffer zone. And while the latch range/chance may have been/will be soon nerfed, don't rely on it or get cocky. 1 or 2 loose parasites isn't a huge deal, but any more then that and they can get out of hand quickly. Also, be aware of where the impale pillar is. You don't want either you or parasites to get stuck on it.

While I personally don't think this violates the spirit of the fight, Blizzard may disagree and fix what is likely a bug with the purported "people at range ability cap" that was discussed earlier. For the time being, however, this method works, and well. It's a great trick to help raids that are having dps or positioning issues to help gear up and tackle some of the other content with more ease. That being said, managing the adds in Magmaw is very obviously intended as practice for the bloods you have to manage for Cho'gall, and not having practice with the mechanic may come back to bite you later on. Like I said, though, even a little gear can make a huge difference and the Magmaw Easy Mode method can provide a good, reliable method to farm some from a boss that has a respectable spread.

Chyper
01-20-2011, 11:43 AM
The Too Many Melee Solution

So you're a casual guild and you don't quiet have the right raid setup. You have 3 melee, or worse yet you have 4 melee. This raid tier probably makes you want to roll a ranged :mad:. So here is a quick breakdown of how to get it done.

This fight is pretty much about add control, if you don't controll/kill the adds in time your healers are going to go oom pretty quickly. The less ranged you have in essence means the less controll you may have over the adds.

The biggest part of the lava control is they do have a threat table. This is important to note for using Melee to kill the lava. IF the Melee don't have it, they'll want to pick up an addon called TidyPlates (Which comes with Threatplates and use them).

Melee killing the adds you're insane! Well yeah, but its how we got it done when we needed too.

The basic idea is that your Melee can kill the parasites as long as they do not pull threat. As soon as one pulls threat they will get jumped on.

Its basicly about watching your threat whilst AOEing. Try your best not to single target anything you can't kill in less then 4 global cooldowns.

Any forms of slow, rogues with crippling poisons, Mut rogues speced into cripling poison when applying other poisons. Dks, hunters mages. Shamans with earth bind. Just about every class has a slow or can pick up a glyph/respec. If you unwilling to change your spec for this fight and other fights that require add control you are not going to be successful.

Its not the silver bullet and Melee will at times get a lava on them and you will just have to heal through it, although its better then all the ranged getting exploded on. We used 1 rogue as the Melee killing the lava as we found if you take too many Melee off the boss you will reach his enrage timer. It all depends on how much damage your raid is capable of doing.

If you're still having trouble with the parasites you may want to consider putting more melee on the parasites, but you'll start getting closer to his enrage timer. If you are unable to kill the parasites with 4 people dealing with them, you may which to consider going back to heroics and making sure you dont have any greens or 333s lingering


Other things to note:

If you only leave 1 Melee on the boss, one will have to run back to get on his head... the queue for this is the steam on the ground. Your designated Melee will have to run back and get ready to jump on his head at this point, if you miss 1 head phase its game over, so Melee have to pay attention to this.

moongate
01-24-2011, 03:31 PM
A bit confused here. Some guy said 4 ranged ppl aoe the adds, even with the help of melee. Some guy said you just need 1 ppl to kite. Are we talking about the same boss? If 1 ppl can do this kiting, why are we talking about how to aoe adds? Honestly I really doubt any super kiter can finish adds every 30s. What if he has a second fire pillar on him and more adds spawn? What if he kites too far away and Boss is pissed cos no ranged ppl?

Someone helps me here. Thanks.

Errvalunia
01-24-2011, 09:02 PM
The idea is that the kiter doesn't kill them, only keeps them occupied. It shouldn't be that hard to stay in range for flame-pillar, it's a pretty big room and the boss will cast it pretty far away.

Mattfitzy21
01-26-2011, 08:32 AM
I'm in a casual guild and I've been having a particular problem on this fight, not because of parasites, but as the tank healer, I'm standing in the melee group. When the other two melee in our group go on his head (in 10 man) I am consistently killed due to a magmaw melee hit. I have tried standing in multiple spots, the one recommended in the video, towards the center, even slightly further back. And without fail, unless I am standing too far back (which causes flame pillar to be cast on me) then I am hit with his melee once the tank is being mangled and the two other melee are on his head. Any suggestions? I haven't been able to read about anyone else having the problem and I'm worried I'm just messing up the raid. Thoughts?
Thanks!

Charonites
01-27-2011, 03:45 AM
Our guild has recently downed Magmaw twice, and in both of our kills we had me, as a Death Knight, as the Ranged DPS Tank, let me just explain..

I am a Frost Dual-Wield Death Knight DPS - I spent the entire fight in Blood Presence and my actual DPS on Magmaw was minimal (apart from when his head is exposed, where he has no threat table) - my job was to keep all of the worms on me whilst actually DPSing them down - I would target a worm in the center of the group, launch as many Howling Blast as I can, by this point my TidyPlates addon says that they're all coming for me, so I launch a Death and Decay just between us, and lure the worms onto it, and then I run around in a circle in such a way so that the worms are staying inside. This allows our Ranged DPS to focus their AoE's on top of my Death and Decay.. the worms were dying extremely fast during this and raid damage from people being hit by the worms was minimal to none.

It's just an idea if you've got a Frost DK in your guild and you're worried about your adds, I can personally confirm that having your DK, Range Tank, is viable and something we're going to making ALOT of use of in the future in our Guild. :)


If you only leave 1 Melee on the boss, one will have to run back to get on his head... the queue for this is the steam on the ground. Your designated Melee will have to run back and get ready to jump on his head at this point, if you miss 1 head phase its game over, so Melee have to pay attention to this.

Another que and one we found to be more reliable then this is when the tank gets Mangle'd, that told me (as I was Ranged tanking the adds) that I needed to get to Magmaw, if I waited for the steam on the ground, I wouldn't make it in time for him to turn round and start spewing on everyone. But when I saw "Mangle on <Insert Tank Name>", I ran for Magmaw, started DPSing him waiting to be able to jump, jumped, did the chain, repeat, rinse, loot.

Aryianaa
01-27-2011, 10:35 AM
Okay...my guild has been trying to down this guy for a while and consistently fail...and since they still consider me as a new member with limited raiding experience (I have only been playing WoW for a little over a year) they don't really listen to my advice. We have been trying to defeat this guy with everyone in melee range other than one hunter who stands out for the Pillar of Flame...and I am the main one DPSing the lava parasites. I'm a Boomkin and I have been having a lot of trouble getting them down...what should I be doing to better get the adds under control?? I feel like there may be something really small that I am messing up on...Thanks in advance for any advice.

Elwindace
01-27-2011, 01:30 PM
In our 10man. we use 2 tanks, 3 heals, 5 dps. Our raid group is all ranged cept for a dk. All ranged stacks up (dodges the fire thing if it pops under us). The Dk takes care of the adds by him self. I think hes frost, something like that. But he can useally kill all the adds him self by the time magmaw is spike. He rarely has to call out for the ranged dps to aoe them down (mage, lock, boomkin, ele shaman).
Works for us, but each group is different and has there own way of doing things.

Myrkur
01-27-2011, 02:34 PM
Okay...my guild has been trying to down this guy for a while and consistently fail...and since they still consider me as a new member with limited raiding experience (I have only been playing WoW for a little over a year) they don't really listen to my advice. We have been trying to defeat this guy with everyone in melee range other than one hunter who stands out for the Pillar of Flame...and I am the main one DPSing the lava parasites. I'm a Boomkin and I have been having a lot of trouble getting them down...what should I be doing to better get the adds under control?? I feel like there may be something really small that I am messing up on...Thanks in advance for any advice.

Phase 1 is all about Add control. Every ranged member must focus down the Adds. Either AE them if they have good AE skills like Fire Mage, or single target them down if their AE is terrible like Arcane Mage. If they get close you can Typhoon them, but you won't be able to kill them solo.

Aryianaa
01-27-2011, 05:07 PM
Thanks for the advice (: We are running it tonight so wish us luck.

Mazianni
01-28-2011, 10:01 PM
My guild just downed Magmaw for the first time tonight, but we ended up using an alternate method for the Parasites, so i thought I'd post it in case it could help some other guilds as well.

OK, so, what we did was have all the ranged stand with melee, except for a hunter, the hunter then would lay down a frost trap on the pillar of fire location (which will always be on the hunter), multi-shot the parasites for aggro, and use Aspect of the Fox to kite them in circles and DPS them down with Multishot. It doesn't really matter if the hunter (or whomever is kiting them) kills all the parasites or not, just that they have aggro and are not getting hit... this opens up the rest of the DPS to focus on the boss and not worry about the parasites at all.

If you have any questions please ask, Good Luck and have fun killing the boss

Utsusemi
01-30-2011, 02:06 PM
I'm playing a Shadow priest in my guild, And we are using the tank kite strat , I'm having threat issues really badly i basicly have to stand around after the dps phase and do nothing for a while, Anyone else having this or just bad tanking?

I'm sure i'm not the greatest dpser on shadow priest just heroic geared with a couple rep and tailoring epics and doing 15-16k single target on him which seems about what everyone else was doing

Morgalm
01-30-2011, 03:26 PM
Are you moving out of melee range until after the tank reestablishes aggro?

Mad cow
01-31-2011, 05:33 AM
@ Morgalm - depends how fast your tank is. Ours is great at taunting the second he's out, I've pugged on alts where the tank had trouble understanding "threat wipe" and would recommend backing out if you're not topped up and can't eat a 50k hit easily.

briarfox
01-31-2011, 07:34 AM
Yea. there is a small threat wipe when the head comes up that seems to always catch someone by surprise.

@aryianaa - Don't even waste dps on the parasites if you're having everyone stand in melee.

THE WHOLE POINT OF HAVING EVERYONE STACK AT MELEE AND 1 PERSON KITING THE ADDS IS SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO DPS THE ADDS AT ALL.

If someone like a death knight or fire mage can manage to kill a few of them with incidental AoE, that's fine, but it should NOT be the focus, nor should it even be a concern for anyone else (unless one manages to get away, then it's the kiter's job to catch it OR tell RDPS to turn and burn it quick). The only time anyone other then the kiter should be moving is to get closer to dps a fallen head or to get out of the steam vent. Other then that, focus ALL dps on Magmaw, forget the adds exist (unless you're kiting, then they're your entire world), stay out of the steam, and profit. I'm glad that everyone is so gung ho over the adds dying, but, strictly speaking, it's not integral to this style of approaching the fight. Pulling dps off to target the adds can actually be detrimental doing it this way. Given that the kiter will be gaining aggro via mostly AOE methods, their hold on a lot of those parasites will likely be precarious at best, especially at first. All it will take is a stray starfall or a helpful mage and his blast wave to pull parasites off of the kiter and into the dps pile, likely causing a wipe.

The whole reason, again, for leaving just 1 person to deal with the parasites is so that no one else has to worry about the parasites. So if you aren't kiting, DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE PARASITES. Burn Magmaw and get some lootz already.

briarfox
01-31-2011, 07:37 AM
I'm playing a Shadow priest in my guild, And we are using the tank kite strat , I'm having threat issues really badly i basicly have to stand around after the dps phase and do nothing for a while, Anyone else having this or just bad tanking?

I'm sure i'm not the greatest dpser on shadow priest just heroic geared with a couple rep and tailoring epics and doing 15-16k single target on him which seems about what everyone else was doing

Sounds like a tank issue. There is a threat wipe when the head comes up, but most tanks should be able to reestablish aggro within a few seconds, tops. Keep an eye on omen, and instead of standing around start dpsing the second you have a big enough threat window to start DPSing without worrying about the tank. Maybe use a CD like fade if it's an issue.

briarfox
01-31-2011, 07:40 AM
My guild just downed Magmaw for the first time tonight, but we ended up using an alternate method for the Parasites, so i thought I'd post it in case it could help some other guilds as well.

OK, so, what we did was have all the ranged stand with melee, except for a hunter, the hunter then would lay down a frost trap on the pillar of fire location (which will always be on the hunter), multi-shot the parasites for aggro, and use Aspect of the Fox to kite them in circles and DPS them down with Multishot. It doesn't really matter if the hunter (or whomever is kiting them) kills all the parasites or not, just that they have aggro and are not getting hit... this opens up the rest of the DPS to focus on the boss and not worry about the parasites at all.

If you have any questions please ask, Good Luck and have fun killing the boss


How is this different from the easy mode strat above?

Bitofanazz
02-01-2011, 04:49 AM
First time I've posted on here hope I'm doing this right. My guild did this 10-man we had a pally just tank the adds and a dps help him burn them down and it worked great we didn't have issues with that part of the fight. Our biggest issues was whenever he did his mangle on the tank he would hit our top dps (rogue) or our top heals (my resto Druid) for 120-140k melee hit. What are we doing wrong? It was very annoying that we weren't having any issues with any ability but his random melee hits. Neither myself or the rogue pulled threat at anytime during the fight. If anyone has a suggestion please let me know.

Changer
02-01-2011, 05:32 AM
He resets/reduces the main tanks threat whilst nom noming on mouth phase.

The top Dps will always take a hit unless you use another tank to taunt when your in the mouth. I'm sure there are more elequant ways of doing it like having a holy pally taunt and stay out of melee range, but as we have not tried heroic yet we are jsut letting a dps die/CR each expose phase - sometimes they dodge -its a bit of a lottery!

Make sure your MT taunts as soon as Magmaw reverts to normal after an exposed phase.

Also we have had hunters pets take the hit sometimes by having them taunt when the main tank is being chewed - if you do this and give your main dps hands of salvation during the exposed phase this could be a reliable method of keeping the dps alive and not requiring a 2nd tank.

It would be interesting to hear how people deal with this on heroic mode.

Minisharkx
02-01-2011, 06:40 AM
He resets/reduces the main tanks threat whilst nom noming on mouth phase.

The top Dps will always take a hit unless you use another tank to taunt when your in the mouth. I'm sure there are more elequant ways of doing it like having a holy pally taunt and stay out of melee range, but as we have not tried heroic yet we are jsut letting a dps die/CR each expose phase - sometimes they dodge -its a bit of a lottery!

Make sure your MT taunts as soon as Magmaw reverts to normal after an exposed phase.

Also we have had hunters pets take the hit sometimes by having them taunt when the main tank is being chewed - if you do this and give your main dps hands of salvation during the exposed phase this could be a reliable method of keeping the dps alive and not requiring a 2nd tank.

It would be interesting to hear how people deal with this on heroic mode.

My guild has downed magmaw 4 times so far and 3 times without anyone taking a melee hit during mangle. The only time I've seen anyone take a giant hit is our kitty who is uber pressed to get at magmaw's back so stands right next to that wall, when he lifts his head up our cat will either predicatbly die or gtfo and not take a hit. The other melee are still right there(more off to magmaw's side next to the spike) and do not have this same issue. Also helps to note that we only have our 3 melee in the melee pile(what a shock) the ranged and healers are all at range dodging flame pillars, pew pewing adds, and such so I guess the cat can better see whats going on.


Tldr
Your standing in the wrong spot stand next to the spike

Changer
02-01-2011, 08:59 AM
Surely that really depends on if the boss parrys attacks from the side/front - the cat is attacking from behind for Shred, but my warrior who normally dies as well is probably standing behind to negate parry (i'll check my WoL to see if i get parried tanking him).

I do tank as far tot he right as i can go without falling off in an attempt to turn the worm.

Edit:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4ou11rj9uogzht0r/spell/0/?s=707&e=1030

I was tanking on my alt paladin that night - it appears no-one got parried on that fight, there were just misses from dual wielders, and the odd parry by people (presumably hitting/cleaving the parasites).

You can see in the log a few people dying to Magmaw melee at various points in the fight (e.g. Nemos - the warrior) Although in Nemus case it appears i taunted slowly as he took 2 hits in 3 secs. The shaman Shambulance got 1 shot tho

Broot
02-07-2011, 07:41 AM
We use a different strat than what is used in this video.

First we have all the dps and healers stand on the edge to the left of magmaw while the MT stands on the right side ledge directly in front of him, then we have myself (DK Tank using PvP Frost spec in BLOOD PRESENCE <--- very important to keep aggro and control mobs) stand out in the middle to draw the pillars.

The fights starts and as the first pillar spawns on me I move out of it, drop D&D and wait for ALL the adds to spawn (to maximize howling blast dps). Once all the adds are up I just smack HB as much as I can, throwing in Blood Boil for a lil extra damage whenever possible. The Howling blast/D&D/Blood Boil keeps the adds aggro'd to me the whole time and HB keeps the slowed and therefore easy to control. Once the adds are slowed/aggro'd I really just run around in a circle while we AOE the down.

As for the rest of the fight, Magmaws head comes down, 2 melee jump on, dps head, when the head goes up all dps stops and they step back slightly from the ledge so he aggro's back to tank (that is important) then we rinse repeat.

The only other thing to remember is big heals on the tank when he's mangle'd and avoid the steam and reset once it's done.

This strat obviously only works if you have a capable DK, but it's got Magmaw on Ezmode for us and I believe it could do the same for others.

Reev
02-07-2011, 07:52 AM
We use a different strat than what is used in this video.

First we have all the dps and healers stand on the edge to the left of magmaw while the MT stands on the right side ledge directly in front of him, then we have myself (DK Tank using PvP Frost spec in BLOOD PRESENCE <--- very important to keep aggro and control mobs) stand out in the middle to draw the pillars.

The fights starts and as the first pillar spawns on me I move out of it, drop D&D and wait for ALL the adds to spawn (to maximize howling blast dps). Once all the adds are up I just smack HB as much as I can, throwing in Blood Boil for a lil extra damage whenever possible. The Howling blast/D&D/Blood Boil keeps the adds aggro'd to me the whole time and HB keeps the slowed and therefore easy to control. Once the adds are slowed/aggro'd I really just run around in a circle while we AOE the down.

As for the rest of the fight, Magmaws head comes down, 2 melee jump on, dps head, when the head goes up all dps stops and they step back slightly from the ledge so he aggro's back to tank (that is important) then we rinse repeat.

The only other thing to remember is big heals on the tank when he's mangle'd and avoid the steam and reset once it's done.

This strat obviously only works if you have a capable DK, but it's got Magmaw on Ezmode for us and I believe it could do the same for others.

We did that one night. Unfortunately our ranged dps had serious problems with staying in melee range for some unknown reason, so we were having pillars spawn on the melee group. Ugh. When we started putting the ranged out at ranged again to deal with the pillars, and had our DK go back to melee dps again, the problems went away. I guess you just gotta know the strengths and weaknesses of your own raid group.

Deathsvalor
02-07-2011, 08:25 AM
We did that one night. Unfortunately our ranged dps had serious problems with staying in melee range for some unknown reason, so we were having pillars spawn on the melee group. Ugh. When we started putting the ranged out at ranged again to deal with the pillars, and had our DK go back to melee dps again, the problems went away. I guess you just gotta know the strengths and weaknesses of your own raid group.

Having a pillar spawn on melee is not the end of the world. Just drop a DnD on top of them and do not slow/snare them untill they are away from the group. If they get slowed they will start attacking/infecting anyone near them regardless of aggro and that is where you will run into problems. The only reason I know this is because my raid tends to fail at staying in melee sometimes while I am kiting.

swollenpickles
02-07-2011, 04:57 PM
Question: if you have a hunter at range, and pet on passive, can you misdirect to your pet and set the parasites onto your pet without it spawning more adds?

I'm thinking parking my pet at range like a guard dog, and misdirecting the parasites to my turtle and using my pet to 'tank' the adds.

Quinafoi
02-08-2011, 12:46 AM
Question: if you have a hunter at range, and pet on passive, can you misdirect to your pet and set the parasites onto your pet without it spawning more adds?

I'm thinking parking my pet at range like a guard dog, and misdirecting the parasites to my turtle and using my pet to 'tank' the adds.


Pets can't be infected with the parasites (tell that to your vet). Pets can have aggro from the parasites. Your pet is a valid target for Misdirect.

Everything required to work will work. Not saying it is a viable method though. One of the key differences between kiting and tanking, is tanking takes damage. If you simply kite the adds you're not taking any damage from them.

snowfir20
02-08-2011, 05:35 AM
The way i've seen it done is. keeping 3 groups. Tank in one mele ranged in one and a surv hunter speced into entrapment out in space absorbing the flame pillar. The hunter takes about 2 steps drops frost then snake trap. Gets back to main group and fires multi-shot. The multi-shot adds ss dot and the entrapment gives 8 total seconds of no move adds. That really helps with them going down fast. We also use a frost dk or frost mage to really help it out.

The issue with him smacking someone is hurtful to remedy. The way we did it was to use a disc priest and have them do the group bubble right before to help keep the weaker alive.

Let me know if you see a flaw in that.

Thanks

Kinch
02-08-2011, 09:50 AM
Misdirecting to a pet is completely viable. I'm not sure if that's how we still do it, but it's the method we used on our first kill.

swollenpickles
02-08-2011, 04:09 PM
Pets can't be infected with the parasites (tell that to your vet). Pets can have aggro from the parasites. Your pet is a valid target for Misdirect.

Everything required to work will work. Not saying it is a viable method though. One of the key differences between kiting and tanking, is tanking takes damage. If you simply kite the adds you're not taking any damage from them.

I was thinking of trying my BM/soloing spec, maybe even swapping into the two piece T5 for the pet healing bonus. Might be worth a shot. I've generally been kiting them around ok besides a couple of bad attempts. At the moment it feels like our raid DPS as a whole is more of an issue. 60-65K seems to be a little on the low side to me, particularly given that a majority of the raid (and melee in particular) hardly need to move. I know there's a 'learning the fight' window, but in general I'd say the numbers should be there after 3-4 attempts. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh?

briarfox
02-11-2011, 06:57 PM
We use a different strat than what is used in this video.

First we have all the dps and healers stand on the edge to the left of magmaw while the MT stands on the right side ledge directly in front of him, then we have myself (DK Tank using PvP Frost spec in BLOOD PRESENCE <--- very important to keep aggro and control mobs) stand out in the middle to draw the pillars.

The fights starts and as the first pillar spawns on me I move out of it, drop D&D and wait for ALL the adds to spawn (to maximize howling blast dps). Once all the adds are up I just smack HB as much as I can, throwing in Blood Boil for a lil extra damage whenever possible. The Howling blast/D&D/Blood Boil keeps the adds aggro'd to me the whole time and HB keeps the slowed and therefore easy to control. Once the adds are slowed/aggro'd I really just run around in a circle while we AOE the down.

As for the rest of the fight, Magmaws head comes down, 2 melee jump on, dps head, when the head goes up all dps stops and they step back slightly from the ledge so he aggro's back to tank (that is important) then we rinse repeat.

The only other thing to remember is big heals on the tank when he's mangle'd and avoid the steam and reset once it's done.

This strat obviously only works if you have a capable DK, but it's got Magmaw on Ezmode for us and I believe it could do the same for others.

Nothing new. Was discussed 3 pages ago.

Daggyll
02-19-2011, 02:45 PM
ok stupid question is this the 10 man or 25 or is it just what the boss needs to down him?

highmana
02-20-2011, 11:33 PM
i got magmaw to 3.4m health the other day. we had everyone stacked in with the melee and a frost tank out in the middle not dpsing but kiting the adds from the pillar while the rdps me another mage and a hunter were slowing/freezeing the adds. during phase two we had the dk come in for the extra dps but that was all he did. we had a healing setup containing 1druid 1shaman and 1priest (10man) we were doing fine healers were all above 50% mana when we hit 10m and idk why but they all died between 10m and 7m unfortunitly our palliden tank couldnt bubble and the lightwell was gone so we only got him to 3.4m

Quinafoi
02-21-2011, 08:22 AM
i got magmaw to 3.4m health the other day. we had everyone stacked in with the melee and a frost tank out in the middle not dpsing but kiting the adds from the pillar while the rdps me another mage and a hunter were slowing/freezeing the adds. during phase two we had the dk come in for the extra dps but that was all he did. we had a healing setup containing 1druid 1shaman and 1priest (10man) we were doing fine healers were all above 50% mana when we hit 10m and idk why but they all died between 10m and 7m unfortunitly our palliden tank couldnt bubble and the lightwell was gone so we only got him to 3.4m

My guess is the health of your healers reached 0.

Sorry, I can't provide any divine insight as to what happened. You should view death logs in game with a tool such as Recount or in the combat logs on a tool such as World of Logs to determine how people died. Naturally, if all your healers are dead, you're not very likely to kill the boss. Tools like this are essential for raid leading.

Natal
02-23-2011, 06:07 AM
My guild and I are using the Strategy where everybody stacks and we keep a hunter out away from Magmaw and we get Pillar of Flames to spawn on him.

Everything is going well with this strat but, when Magmaw is down and we are burning, we don't know exactly when to move back before he lifts his head back up.

We seem to get one person swiped and killed everytime during that phase.

Would somebody mind explaining when to move back?

Thanks!

Quinafoi
02-23-2011, 08:46 AM
Would somebody mind explaining when to move back?

Two words for you.
Boss Mods

You have a timer bar telling you how long the exposed head phase will last, when it's about to end, that's when.

Theotherone
02-23-2011, 09:23 AM
We downed him last night, I tanked the adds in Blood spec/Blood Presence without any real issues once I got the hang of the angles to move them at; hunters put down frost traps, but once range learned to clear out of the back so I could run around it was pretty easy. DnD kept them aggro'd to me and if I had to Death Grip, Icy Touch, or taunt a stray one and maybe eat it, it worked out fine. The self healing and a Lightwell I could work my way into range of came in handy (as did the Soul Well our lock left in the back of the room, not to mention a Jeeves lying around - oh the things you try as you kite a pack of worms around the back of a room) for the fire spit, meant the healers really didn't have to worry about me.

And I came away with:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=59492

Loganisis
02-23-2011, 01:04 PM
Our first (and so far only kill) was with Boomkins throwing down mushrooms and hurricans with only the hunter at range.

We did pretty good last night on our first attempt post first-kill, but that one I was WarTanking the adds. Got to love Blood and Thunder... except for the one worm that would ALWAYS seems to aggro on a healer. Damn little bugger, one per pillar it seemed. Now I'm only slightly jealous of DnD ;-) (mostly because it's more forgiving when you have worms spawning at slightly different times).

Between the two, if you're struggling, it seemed that a hunter/boomchicken with shrooms is more functional than losing the complete DPS of one player for the whole fight (tanking adds) because it shortens the fight and reduces the chance of error. If your DPS is really good it's fine, but with the shroom explosions and quick action by range DPS, there's very little down time on the boss.

***

Has anyone else noticed jumping on Magmaw bugging? On our first kill I had it happen once and the DK in the raid had it happen once, that when we went to jump on him, we looked like we were jumping up, hovered for a sec, then were back on the ground. It was frustrating since it was just the two of us jumping that it happened.

Theotherone
02-23-2011, 02:30 PM
Has anyone else noticed jumping on Magmaw bugging? On our first kill I had it happen once and the DK in the raid had it happen once, that when we went to jump on him, we looked like we were jumping up, hovered for a sec, then were back on the ground. It was frustrating since it was just the two of us jumping that it happened.

Drove us crazy on a couple of our attempts last night - I'd hear in vent, since I'm kiting and not really watching what's going on with the boss, "head coming down" then "oh crap, wait, why am I down here,...."

Loganisis
02-23-2011, 03:35 PM
Drove us crazy on a couple of our attempts last night - I'd hear in vent, since I'm kiting and not really watching what's going on with the boss, "head coming down" then "oh crap, wait, why am I down here,...."

Yeah, we started sending any non-hunter DPS on his head to make sure. Better to lose 5 seconds of raid DPS than not have the head come down.

Killerkhan
02-23-2011, 08:47 PM
10 man -

Ok, so we are trying this strat with the Frost DK, in tank gear, in blood presence, blasting the worms and kiting - which works beautifully, but i noticed one thing, i cannot click on Magmaw's head AT ALL when im 10'/5'/or standing right on him. I get the grey arrow, but no matter how close or how far I am to him, it never turns green.

When i go pure dps and stay dpsing on him and we let the ranged dps handle the adds, without the kiting DK, then the arrow lights up just fine for me and i have no problems getting on his head.

Has this mechanic been recently changed, as of the patch that went down on 2/15/11???

The only other option we have is to bring one other melee dps to the raid, taking out a ranged to jump on his head with me still kiting the adds. Will this work or is there something im missing or?

/frustrated

swollenpickles
02-23-2011, 09:04 PM
Wondering if the mechanics of this fight have changed in the last week or two? Does the one person at range strategy still work?

Loganisis
02-23-2011, 10:39 PM
Wondering if the mechanics of this fight have changed in the last week or two? Does the one person at range strategy still work?

Yes. Both of our kills (10n - sat and today) have been 1 tank, 2 melee, 2 healers, 5 range DPS. Shrooms + Traps + AoE nukes FTW

Wizard42000
02-27-2011, 04:56 AM
My guild tried magmaw tonight for our first time. i was expecting a really rocky experience figuring were made of a bunch of raiders that just recently came back to wow after a 9 month vacation. Our group consisted of one pally tank on magmaw, we had a DK kiting the worms, 2 arcane mages, 1 ele shammy, 1 fury warrior, 1 rogue and 3 heals(priest,druid,shammy combo). it was a bit rocky at first with how melee heavy the group was but ended up downin the boss anyway after our 6-7th attempt. The main problem we ran into was our warrior getting smashed as the head pops back up but to counter that we just had him pop into prot stance right before he popped back up and that usually gave him just enough to survive. we had only the two mages and the dk dpsn the worms with both mages just single targeting and had absolutly no issues with them. all would be dead before the head dropped so all dps could just unload on magmaw. last attempt all dps were pushin min of 10k and went down like a charm :)

Yannzi
03-02-2011, 10:41 AM
My guild and I have wiped on this guy about 10 or so times now (which was partly because of strategy and not being well enough geared, they are now though). My question is, I've seen a lot of strategies that rely on kiting the adds around. Myself (warrior tank) and a Prot Pally are our two tanks. Would I be better off kiting the adds as my warrior, or would the Pally make more sense? And in kiting the adds, am I just holding threat on them and kiting then throughout the room making sure none get to the "melee group?" Like would I just be thunderclapping/shockwave/demo shouting to keep them on me, but not getting hit by them, or would we be better off having the pally tank them?

I realize that a DK tank would probably be the best strategy, but I can't guarantee that one will be there. Also, what would they do? Just continue to kite the adds around the room?

Thanks to all for the strategies.

Loganisis
03-02-2011, 10:52 AM
Yannzi - I'd like to reiterate: Hunter traps + Boomkin shrooms = 50% of the worms HP. Add in cyclone for pushback and the fight becomes fairly easy as long as people move out of the steam.

If you don't have a well geared add tank that can kill the worms quickly, you're looking at maybe needing a third healer (2 to help the MT through mangle). Maybe as you gear this won't be as needed. So you're looking at MT, OT, 2-3 healers and 5-6 DPS.

With a boomkin and hunter (I am assuming you have access to these - which may not be the case) you're looking at MT, 2 healers, and 7 DPS. The extra DPS on the adds and Magmaw really speeds up the fight.

Yannzi
03-02-2011, 11:02 AM
Yannzi - I'd like to reiterate: Hunter traps + Boomkin shrooms = 50% of the worms HP. Add in cyclone for pushback and the fight becomes fairly easy as long as people move out of the steam.

If you don't have a well geared add tank that can kill the worms quickly, you're looking at maybe needing a third healer (2 to help the MT through mangle). Maybe as you gear this won't be as needed. So you're looking at MT, OT, 2-3 healers and 5-6 DPS.

With a boomkin and hunter (I am assuming you have access to these - which may not be the case) you're looking at MT, 2 healers, and 7 DPS. The extra DPS on the adds and Magmaw really speeds up the fight.

Appreciate the quick response. I don't have a boomkin in my current raid comp, but I do have a hunter. I feel like my Pally tank and I are interchangeable in terms of gear, we are about the same. We might need 3 healers, but I'm not sure if we can do it with just 2. I haven't been able to get enough people lately, but that's another whole problem in itself.

I feel like that I could either have myself or the Pally tank the adds with a little help from a warlock, hunter, and mage?

Loganisis
03-02-2011, 12:50 PM
Glyped Shadowflame (I think it's shadowflame) from a warlock applies a 70% slow. I'm just not sure of any other classes with a pushback. The shrooms of doom helps a lot and then the pushback. The pushback for if DPS isn't fast enough is as important as the shrooms for doing a tankless fight.

It's still possible, as long as range DPS is quick to switch (DBM says Pillar of Fire range ignores Magmaw and gets ready to AoE down adds) and it is pretty good. Save a bunch on heals too.

briarfox
03-07-2011, 06:32 AM
Appreciate the quick response. I don't have a boomkin in my current raid comp, but I do have a hunter. I feel like my Pally tank and I are interchangeable in terms of gear, we are about the same. We might need 3 healers, but I'm not sure if we can do it with just 2. I haven't been able to get enough people lately, but that's another whole problem in itself.

I feel like that I could either have myself or the Pally tank the adds with a little help from a warlock, hunter, and mage?

There seems to be some fundamental confusion and blurring of the two strategies, since the alternative strat of a single kiter was explained back at post 84. Lemme break it down.

Traditional Strat: This is the one you find in the video attached at the beginning, wherein you have a range pile that moves collectively and deals with the parasites. The video does a masterful job with the detail explanation and I see no reason to needlessly repeat it here. Pros to this strat: you get training handling ads, which is important for later fights (the last 3 bosses, especially) and your raid awareness is tested. Cons: 1 idiot can wipe the raid. Easy to get out of control very quickly.

Alternative "easy mode" strat: Everyone excepting the magmaw tank and a kiter will be in the melee pile. Calling the kiter the "parasite tank" is a bit of a misnomer, because the person dealing with that (which we will henceforth call "the worm dude" for the sake of simplicity) doesn't actually HAVE to be a tank. We happen to use our DK tank because we don't need two tanks on the fight and he can grab range aggro easily. But that is really the crux of it. Whoever stays out to handle the ads doesn't NEED to be a tank, they just have to be able to grab and HOLD aggro on the worms, preferably at some sort of range. Hunters, Boomies, Frost and fire mages, frost DKs...All are perfectly viable options for the worm dude. We even had an elemental shammy do it with little trouble.

The tank tanks magmaw, everyone but the worm dude dps's magmaw from inside 5 yards, and the worm dude hangs out, grabs all the worms, and kites them around the room. Note that when performing this strat, it becomes completely unnecessary to DPS the worms. The worm dude is keeping them busy by running about and should never be hit. Even if you are hit as the worm dude, it isn't the end of the world. One or two parasites getting ahold of you should barely phase you, esp if a healer is ready to throw some love your way. The worms only become an issue, head bursting wise, if they get into the melee pile. That's when you get overwhelmed.

To recap: Magmaw tank on magmaw, worm dude at range kiting worms, everyone else kitty corner to the tank dpsing Magmaw from within 5 yards. If dps are feeling helpful, they can toss a frost trap or a blast wave or something out there to help on the parasites, but I'd just rather you spend the GCD on Magmaw instead, esp since you risk messing with the worm dude's aggro. You could have a lock or a hunter pet on aggressive going nuts in the worm pile, since pets can't be infected, but even that is unnecessary. Really the only thing that the dps have to worry about at that point is avoiding the steam, which, at least for us, is rarely an issue. The whole point of this strat is to remove the need to DPS the parasites, instead focusing all that firepower Magmaw.

Pros: It's easy. The "easy mode" strat allows you to down Magmaw with less gear then is recommended, and takes most of the need for raid awareness and places it squarely on the shoulders of 1 to 2 people. It's much easier to "carry" raids or undergeared toons this way.

Cons: All of the early fights are practice and training for aspects of later fights. By bypassing learning add control and raid awareness, you shoot yourself in the foot for fights like Cho'Gal and Maloriak. Then again, if you're having trouble on Magmaw the mechanics of farther along bosses prolly aren't of much concern.

To answer your question more directly, I would go with the warrior to kite ads (although personally I'd be looking at one of the rDPS as a better option for "worm dude" and just have the OT switch to DPS for the fight). While neither the pally or warrior are ideal, the warrior has more range aggro and "get in and get out" options in heroic throw, thunderclap, heroic leap, cleave, etc... Pallies are just fine at tanking but in my experience they need to be in the mix to really build and hold aggro, and, at least when it comes to being the worm dude, in the mix is not where you want to be.

Kerchunk
03-07-2011, 04:36 PM
I'm a bit frustrated that neither the video nor the seven pages of ensuing discussion here mention Massive Crash even once.

We had everyone stack in melee range, 1 Hunter at range to deal with the adds. We did ask RDPS to switch off Magmaw and kill the adds though after reading the discussion here I think we will just have everyone stay on Magmaw in our next attempts.

That being said, the raid was still taking huge amounts of damage from Massive Crash. Tankspot doesn't mention this ability. It's not even documented on Wowhead's database. The only written guide I could find that mentions it is at raidbs.com and he says "Shortly after each Mangle, Magmaw will use this ability." which is NOT accurate in my experience. Massive Crash was occurring BEFORE Mangle and there didn't seem to be any indication of its direction or how it could be effectively avoided.

The damage was taxing our healers, and eventually causing wipes.

So does anyone have accurate information on this ability and how to properly predict and avoid it?

klausi
03-08-2011, 04:23 AM
When you chain him (during Mangle) he will drop down once before rodeo is over. Everyone standing in his front will get hit from Massive Crash, but it only has a very short range.. 8y maximum.

darament
03-11-2011, 10:53 AM
For people who are having trouble with magmaw insta killing a dps while only running one tank. When your tank gets mangled he has the ability to attack magmaws head. Your tank also has the ability to tab through targets and will get Magmaw and the exposed head of magmaw. Every time magmaw Mangles the Main tank loses agro and the next person in line will be hit and possibly killed by a 100k+ hit. While the tank who is being mangled is in the head that person can taunt the normal boss and regain agro and move back to doing dps on the head. It's a slight dps loss to the tank to taunt but overall it's a dps gain because your not going to have your dps potentially die because the tank doesn't have agro.

this is kind of a rundown of how I do it in 10m
I get mangled(and lose agro)
I dps the head of magmaw
2 dps get on magmaw and chains
magmaw comes up I target his body and taunt
he goes down releasing me and I continue dpsing
he comes back up and starts attacking me.

no dps die or get hit and healers don't have anything to worry about.

When we first did it we ran 2 tanks to taunt the boss when the first tank got mangled but once we realized that the main tank can taunt magmaw then we were able to run with just 1 tank.

Yannzi
03-11-2011, 11:11 AM
There seems to be some fundamental confusion and blurring of the two strategies, since the alternative strat of a single kiter was explained back at post 84. Lemme break it down.

Traditional Strat: This is the one you find in the video attached at the beginning, wherein you have a range pile that moves collectively and deals with the parasites. The video does a masterful job with the detail explanation and I see no reason to needlessly repeat it here. Pros to this strat: you get training handling ads, which is important for later fights (the last 3 bosses, especially) and your raid awareness is tested. Cons: 1 idiot can wipe the raid. Easy to get out of control very quickly.

Alternative "easy mode" strat: Everyone excepting the magmaw tank and a kiter will be in the melee pile. Calling the kiter the "parasite tank" is a bit of a misnomer, because the person dealing with that (which we will henceforth call "the worm dude" for the sake of simplicity) doesn't actually HAVE to be a tank. We happen to use our DK tank because we don't need two tanks on the fight and he can grab range aggro easily. But that is really the crux of it. Whoever stays out to handle the ads doesn't NEED to be a tank, they just have to be able to grab and HOLD aggro on the worms, preferably at some sort of range. Hunters, Boomies, Frost and fire mages, frost DKs...All are perfectly viable options for the worm dude. We even had an elemental shammy do it with little trouble.

The tank tanks magmaw, everyone but the worm dude dps's magmaw from inside 5 yards, and the worm dude hangs out, grabs all the worms, and kites them around the room. Note that when performing this strat, it becomes completely unnecessary to DPS the worms. The worm dude is keeping them busy by running about and should never be hit. Even if you are hit as the worm dude, it isn't the end of the world. One or two parasites getting ahold of you should barely phase you, esp if a healer is ready to throw some love your way. The worms only become an issue, head bursting wise, if they get into the melee pile. That's when you get overwhelmed.

To recap: Magmaw tank on magmaw, worm dude at range kiting worms, everyone else kitty corner to the tank dpsing Magmaw from within 5 yards. If dps are feeling helpful, they can toss a frost trap or a blast wave or something out there to help on the parasites, but I'd just rather you spend the GCD on Magmaw instead, esp since you risk messing with the worm dude's aggro. You could have a lock or a hunter pet on aggressive going nuts in the worm pile, since pets can't be infected, but even that is unnecessary. Really the only thing that the dps have to worry about at that point is avoiding the steam, which, at least for us, is rarely an issue. The whole point of this strat is to remove the need to DPS the parasites, instead focusing all that firepower Magmaw.

Pros: It's easy. The "easy mode" strat allows you to down Magmaw with less gear then is recommended, and takes most of the need for raid awareness and places it squarely on the shoulders of 1 to 2 people. It's much easier to "carry" raids or undergeared toons this way.

Cons: All of the early fights are practice and training for aspects of later fights. By bypassing learning add control and raid awareness, you shoot yourself in the foot for fights like Cho'Gal and Maloriak. Then again, if you're having trouble on Magmaw the mechanics of farther along bosses prolly aren't of much concern.

To answer your question more directly, I would go with the warrior to kite ads (although personally I'd be looking at one of the rDPS as a better option for "worm dude" and just have the OT switch to DPS for the fight). While neither the pally or warrior are ideal, the warrior has more range aggro and "get in and get out" options in heroic throw, thunderclap, heroic leap, cleave, etc... Pallies are just fine at tanking but in my experience they need to be in the mix to really build and hold aggro, and, at least when it comes to being the worm dude, in the mix is not where you want to be.

Thanks for the response. We did end up getting him down with the help of DK PuG. He was 358 ilvl DK. What we ended up doing was have a hunter stand at ranged, he would take the pillar and throw down a frost trap. We had another hunter throw down another one to spread out the frost as far as possible. We had the hunters multi-shot/kill parasites along with the DK doing Howling Blast and our Warlock doing Rain of Fire. We were able to get them down pretty effectively. I'm a warrior so I just ended up dpsing the boss and jumped on his head along with a rogue. We used 3 healers pally/druid/shaman and it worked out very well.

The only problem is when we try it again we probably won't have a DK, but we couldn't seem to get Maloriak down right away. It takes some time, but I think that we'll get there. The biggest thing is getting those adds down. It seems like we only got the adds down quick enough because of the DK's howling blast, so I wonder how we will do if we don't have that.

eldrid
03-15-2011, 02:52 PM
We made our first real run at this boss last night in 10 man. I think we have the pillar-parasite mechanic down - we're using a kiting method. We also have the burn phase mechanic down. The problem we seem to be having is that our healers are tapped on mana by the time the first burn phase is down.

Our last attempt of the evening netted us our best result - 20%. But our healers still feel like they're struggling for mana.

Quinafoi
03-16-2011, 07:41 AM
We made our first real run at this boss last night in 10 man. I think we have the pillar-parasite mechanic down - we're using a kiting method. We also have the burn phase mechanic down. The problem we seem to be having is that our healers are tapped on mana by the time the first burn phase is down.

Our last attempt of the evening netted us our best result - 20%. But our healers still feel like they're struggling for mana.

At the start of the encounter there is the longest period of time before the head can be impaled hence their always being 2 pillars before the first mangle and only one for the majority of the fight. While your tank doesn't have the armor debuff at this point, simply because the boss is up the raid takes more damage. I will always spend more mana at the start of this fight than between any other point that follows. Depending on how much unnecessary damage is being taken by the raid or kiter, healing requirements can go up significantly. I healed a raid on my alt where total HPS of the raid was like 35k using a kiter, when in my regular raid where we kill the adds we usually only average around 25k HPS simply because less healing is required (comparing one of our earliest kills to the group I ran with last night who got their first kill). Mana cooldowns like Mana Tide and Innervate should be used early and used often. Potion of Concentration should be used for this encounter instead of Mythical Mana Potion since you have plenty of time while the head is exposed. When you are first starting to learn the encounter you may want to try several different methods to see which works best for your raid. If healing isn't able to keep up, try an alternate method which may require less healing. Kiting is the ideal method, but only if the kiter avoids taking any damage from the adds so that depends largely on the individual skill of the kiter. If your kiter is taking more damage than they should be, then perhaps simply killing the adds will reduce the damage you take (while it will extend the total length of the fight, decreasing the rate of incoming damage will actually extend healer mana significantly further).

eldrid
03-21-2011, 10:42 AM
This change was put in last week


Magmaw overall damage and health was a little too high on all difficulties and has been reduced slightly.

Anyone have any knowledge of how much of a change this was?

klausi
03-22-2011, 01:09 AM
From one of the hardest heroics in Blackwing (dps and healing requirements) to totally doable for everyone who can beat Chimaeron or Maloriak.

Time requirement down ~ 20% & tank as well as raiddamage down ~ 15%

eldrid
03-22-2011, 07:52 AM
I would agree with the assessment above. We struggled with this fight last week as our healers had a difficult time keeping up (as mentioned above) but last night, our healers found the fight entirely manageable and after a couple of unfortunate wipes because of movement, we were able to down him.

tuffcooky
04-21-2011, 06:02 PM
Thank you as always Aliena for the great video - you do a great job at explaining the mechanics of the fights and seeing it from a healer's perspective adds just that little extra something that I really enjoy.

I would like to ask if you would let us hear your team's conversations when you have concluded your voice over portion. Personally, I get a lot of ideas from listening to the discussion of others.