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kingcomrade
11-17-2010, 05:22 PM
Is it as simple as:
Single Target: Ignore Death Runes, use Obliterate
and
Aoe: Spam Howling Blast?

Or would 4 howling blasts be better than 2 oblits? Or worse, due to GCD and so on?
2 oblits is 4 runes of use, while howling blast only uses 1 each, and runes recharge a lot more slowly now so you have more time to actually use the runes. And HB still hits like a truck.

Taylonis
11-17-2010, 06:28 PM
As far as I can tell, and I'm by no means a mathematical theory crafter, it's best to use HB X4, especially if you have a lot of mastery. I have nothing really to back this up except I've tried using oblit a few times on the dummy and the HB X4 just seems to do more damage. Of course it could be just because one of the other dummies is getting hit, i.e more damage. Definetely spam HB for multiple targets, though. My DK is just an alt, but for simplicity and pretty darn good dps, I just use the death runes on HB.

I can't recall any of my DK's current unbuffed stats, you're welcome to armory him (Mutamit - Drenden, US). Just don't be too critical of his set-up or spec. He's a fun alt that I play every now and then.

Hope this helps.

kingcomrade
11-17-2010, 07:39 PM
The confusion basically comes from, is Oblit just there to give you the death runes, or are the death runes for AoE. I think before, when runes recharged a lot faster, that oblit would probably be better because it was about blacking out your runes ASAP, but now that you actually have the time to use 4x HB, and they dont hit that much weaker than oblit, that HB would be better. On the other hand, maybe using Oblit to clear out runes then focusing on frost strike to maybe get your runes back up using empowerment....

Biscoinferno
11-17-2010, 08:18 PM
Blood Strike gives you death runes. Oblit should be used on them in a single-target situation. HB in the others

uglybbtoo
11-17-2010, 08:36 PM
OPENING:
Howling blast -> Plague strike -> Blood strike
(Sometime you get lucky with proc's and don't need rune recovery from blood strike but be prepared).

SINGLE TARGET:

Presence: Unholy

PRIORITY:
1) Killing machine -> Frost strike (Learn to recognize UI animation)
2.)Keep frost disease running -> Howling blast
3.)keep blood plague running -> Plague strike
4.)Rime -> Howling blast (Learn to recognize UI animation)
5.)**Obliterate
6.) Howling blast
7.) Blood Srike (Locked out because you have no runes left ^-^ )

**Obliterate: For low gear levels go onto heroic target and check the damage of obliterate versus howling blast. If howling blast is significantly higher than obliterate ignore obliterate. Obliterate scales mainly off weapon damage while howling blast scales off AP so at low levels HB often does alot more damage than obliterate and can be ignored as it basically just gives free HB's via rime.


CLC_DK addon is useful if you want a visual queue on screen.


AOE: Is similar to above except no obliterate its just HB spam and you are usually using D&D every CD.

Sterbefall
11-18-2010, 11:54 AM
Single target: Use Death Runes for Obliterate.
AoE: Use Death Runes for Howling Blast.

It's really that simple.

Zxian
11-18-2010, 01:52 PM
SINGLE TARGET:

Presence: Unholy

This is only true for 2H Frost. If you're stuck with better 1H weapons and are using DW frost, Frost presence is preferable.

For any AoE situation, you want to be in Unholy presence, since you want those runes back faster for moar Howling Blast. :D

Sterbefall
11-18-2010, 02:32 PM
For any AoE situation, you want to be in Unholy presence, since you want those runes back faster for moar Howling Blast. :DI don't think the refresh rate outweighs the 15% damage bonus (also, you lose the damage bonus on your diseases).

Zxian
11-18-2010, 03:47 PM
It's a 10% bonus now. Unholy presence gives you more runes more often, as well as the reduced GCD. The higher frequency of HB attacks outweighs the loss in damage.

uglybbtoo
11-18-2010, 05:01 PM
And the arguement continues :-)

Honestly they need to test half people say unholy and half frost for AOE ... I can only say I found unholy. It can't be settled by us and sorry while EJ's says frost the argument will persist unless they changed there view.


Single target: Use Death Runes for Obliterate.
AoE: Use Death Runes for Howling Blast.

It's really that simple.

If you bothered to read the bit above in low gear they wont be using obliterate at all because it will do less damage than howling blast. If obliterate does less damage than howling blast in your gear there is no point to feeding it into the sequence to get what a free howling blast which you would have used anyhow by just spamming howling blast. The tipping point is when obliterate is very close to the damage of howling blast you use it because the free howling blast means you end up less often having to blood strike.

Sterbefall
11-22-2010, 01:58 PM
It's a 10% bonus now. Unholy presence gives you more runes more often, as well as the reduced GCD. The higher frequency of HB attacks outweighs the loss in damage. You're forgetting Improved Frost Presence. The lower GCD helps your initial burst, but if things last for more than a couple seconds, FP will be better.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=50385/improved-frost-presence

Sterbefall
11-22-2010, 02:00 PM
If you bothered to read the bit above in low gear they wont be using obliterate at all because it will do less damage than howling blast. If obliterate does less damage than howling blast in your gear there is no point to feeding it into the sequence to get what a free howling blast which you would have used anyhow by just spamming howling blast. The tipping point is when obliterate is very close to the damage of howling blast you use it because the free howling blast means you end up less often having to blood strike. I did read it and what I said elsewhere still applies here.