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Necroshen
11-12-2010, 02:43 AM
Hello Everyone,

When 4.0.1 was introduced I (like many others) had not move from duel wielding Frost tanking to Blood. The change was not too bad to be honest however, even though I still enjoy tanking I feel that my threat is not as high as it could be and in cases where the dps output is very high it can be very difficult to keep my threat up. This concerns me and I am worried I am perhaps not performing correctly.

Here is my armory link: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nordrassil&cn=Necroshen

The changes I made when 4.0.1. was released where the reforging of parry stats to mastery for the sake of my blood shield from Deathstrike at the moment my mastery rating is 12.17. I then regemmed for Dodge & Parry to replace the drop in those aprticular stats due to he reforge.

Another change was from ym duel wielding slow Axes to my 2 handed Oxheart mace.

I am not sure why my threat is sagging a bit but I would take anyones guidence and advice on ensure I am reforging and gemming in the correct fashion I would also like some guidence on my play style.

When I am tanking I tend to DnD, Heartstrike, BB, RS whenever possible and of course Disease Stack with Pestilence however this is perhaps not the correct way to be doing things and I would just like to check. I have of course been following the DK Tanking Bible that is on these forums but I still would like some further clarification on my own setup.

My spec still is not spot on perfect but as with many people it is a work in progress :)

Thanks for your time once again.

Selene
11-13-2010, 06:34 AM
Okay in regards to Reforging for DK tanking, what I was told by one of the guys in one of the "top" guilds on my server was try to get Dodge to around 20% and Parry to around 19% no lower, and reforge everything else to Mastery to try to get 100% Mastery or more.

As to rotation that is a bit harder to say. You definately want to keep Frost Fever on the target(s) but as far as diseases that is the only one that is vital. Death Strike you only want to do maybe every other attack to get the most out of your "bubble."

I know alot of people had preached before to ignore Hit Rating.

But now it seems Hit Rating to cap and Expertise to cap are even more important than before, and your Hit Rating is extremely low so getting that up might help out.
General rule of thumb for gemming is to still stack Stam.

Come Cata threat should be alot easier for us since we will have the proper Runestrike, which means regaining our Runes alot easier.

Where are you having the most issues with threat?
Raids or Instances? If there are threat issues in a raid then need to inform the DPS/RL that they need to let Tanks establish threat. If it is in an instance, then let the DPS die, they are being stupid. The era of Instant HIGH Tank threat is gone.

Bosses or Trash Mobs? If the threat issue is on a boss, is it at the start of a fight? Then DPS needs to hold back a tad, again the era of Instant High Tank threat is gone, especially when certain DPS Specs/Classes can pull completely off a Tank at the start of a fight, which I myself have been guilty of a few times during the rare times I have been able to dps (Rime and KM procs on a Frost DK means big threat at the start of a fight). If the issue is on trash especially in an instance, unless the healer is pulling threat, I say they wanted it that bad, let them tank. DPS need to learn to use CC or smart DPS again, since the age of instant super high threat from tanks is gone.

But as for a "rotation" that kinda depends on what works best for you.
I'll admit I go slower now when tanking than before unless I know the DPS in the random I have show that they can handle themselves if they pull. But in general I try to open with D&D, Icy Touch, Pest, Blood Boil if the DPS is too eager, otherwise I try for D&D, IT, PS, Pest, BB, BB if at all possible.

Necroshen
11-16-2010, 01:56 AM
Hello and thank you very much for the reply.

vOkay in regards to Reforging for DK tanking, what I was told by one of the guys in one of the "top" guilds on my server was try to get Dodge to around 20% and Parry to around 19% no lower, and reforge everything else to Mastery to try to get 100% Mastery or more.[/quote]
My Dodge and Parry are not too far away from those figures but for me to take advantage of Mastery I don't think my gear can suffer the losses required. My parry is 17% at the moment so I would need to reforge some mastery back into parry I think. Any thoughts?


As to rotation that is a bit harder to say. You definately want to keep Frost Fever on the target(s) but as far as diseases that is the only one that is vital. Death Strike you only want to do maybe every other attack to get the most out of your "bubble."
I totally agree. My rotation tends to be flexible but I try to adhere to some basic principles like application of diseases and then HS and RS a lot and also BB and DS when big hits come in. However it seems that people have no problem just racing over my threat every time. This could be over enthusiastic DPS or people that simply don't care but it is so annoying :P


I know alot of people had preached before to ignore Hit Rating.
But now it seems Hit Rating to cap and Expertise to cap are even more important than before, and your Hit Rating is extremely low so getting that up might help out.
General rule of thumb for gemming is to still stack Stam.
What would be a good hit rating to aim for and is my expertise ok at the moment? Should I gem for hit or gem for expertise :confused:


Come Cata threat should be alot easier for us since we will have the proper Runestrike, which means regaining our Runes alot easier.

Where are you having the most issues with threat?
Raids or Instances? If there are threat issues in a raid then need to inform the DPS/RL that they need to let Tanks establish threat. If it is in an instance, then let the DPS die, they are being stupid. The era of Instant HIGH Tank threat is gone.

Bosses or Trash Mobs? If the threat issue is on a boss, is it at the start of a fight? Then DPS needs to hold back a tad, again the era of Instant High Tank threat is gone, especially when certain DPS Specs/Classes can pull completely off a Tank at the start of a fight, which I myself have been guilty of a few times during the rare times I have been able to dps (Rime and KM procs on a Frost DK means big threat at the start of a fight). If the issue is on trash especially in an instance, unless the healer is pulling threat, I say they wanted it that bad, let them tank. DPS need to learn to use CC or smart DPS again, since the age of instant super high threat from tanks is gone.
It seems to be on everything and anything. There is a definate "want" to be top of DPS and until the original "vanilla" mentality is restored of letting the tank get aggro it could be like this for a while. On bosses I stack diseases, HS, RS and DRW (when possible) as well as D&D and STILL have dps jumping over my threat. :(

I have this concern about regemming and refoging in case I under nourish my Blood Shield.

MellvarTank
11-16-2010, 08:17 AM
Usually I have found for snap aggro I BB, HS, HS, DS and RS whenever I can. Once I have a threat lead I then hit it with IT and stack diseases. The reason for the HS, HS, DS is to ensure you have enough RP to death coil if you are unlucky with RS procs. This is the method I have found best for burst threat currently, but my DK is still in some crappy gear as well, so maybe something else will hit harder once I get some better gear.

Selene
11-16-2010, 09:05 AM
Regarding your gems.
Change the gem in your helm. You are no longer getting the socket bonus with what you have in there.
Always use a x/Stam gem, never use Parry/Dodge or any other gem that doesn't have Stam in it.
If you aren't going to get the socket bonus for a piece of gear, gem ALL stamina.

Runeforge: ALWAYS use Stoneskin Gargoyle, it was given to us for a reason.

I wish the armory would show Mastery and Reforged gear.

Target number for Hit Rating is 8% and the target number for Expertise is between 22-26 (I think it is 24 or 26 for the actual number).

MellvarTank
11-16-2010, 09:07 AM
26 is supposed to be the cap, but the tooltip is weird right now and we can get away with 24 and be capped. It will be 26 again at 85.

praetoria
11-16-2010, 09:13 AM
26 is supposed to be the cap, but the tooltip is weird right now and we can get away with 24 and be capped. It will be 26 again at 85.


dose anyony know the hard cap as of right now? i have en expertise set for heroic ruby and im wondering if i can free up some of the expertise for survival.. im currently over the old hard cap, sitting at 54. ( to avoid parry gib)

Selene
11-16-2010, 09:15 AM
The caps are still the same. So 54 sounds about right to be hard capped.

Necroshen
11-18-2010, 03:15 AM
I went to my bank and I changed my weapong to the Citadel Enforcer's Claymore (http://eu.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=50761) as this weapon has more hit on it.

My hit rating is now 8.32% so I know I can afford to lose some however I have done a lot of reforging so it is not so easy to balance with expertise, parry and dodge but I am trying to get the figures more in line.

My Expertise is 29, Dodge 21%, Parry 18%.

I still need to work on the figures and refine them a lot more to fall inline with the recommended amounts. As suggested I have ensured that Rune of the Stone Skin Gargoyle is on my weapon.

With the above figures in mind there has been a dramatic improvment with the threat figures compared to what I was getting before.