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View Full Version : Druid Balance druid guide 4.0.1



Mclelle
11-06-2010, 03:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-arhik2xymw

Made a Balance druid dps guide for 4.0.1 . Alittle late i know . But as they say. Better late then never!

If you ahve any questions post below and feel free to add anythign if i missed anything . If you think anythign is incorrect . Feel free to say so and we can disscus the matter!

//Mclelle Outland - EU

Quinafoi
11-07-2010, 09:44 AM
Spec advice is fine, however I personally take Solar Beam over the final point in Owlkin Frenzy. Even in PvE having the option of an interupt is very useful. (i.e. AoE silence with an interrupt is OP on Faction Champions in a ToC farming raid).

You are actually wasting some of your gloves haste because your instant casts are well beyond the haste soft cap caused by Nature's Grace. With Nature's Grace, your haste GCD cap is 795. While your DoTs themselves continue to scale beyond that, you are wasting a lot of your haste to your GCD overcapped on those instant cast spells at the start of your rotation. Because Haste is re-evaluated per tick of a DoT, you should instead use your gloves AFTER DoTs are applied and when you are starting the spamming part of your rotation. It will benefit all remaining ticks of your DoT as well receive the full benefit of your casts with a cast time. If you use your gloves in the middle of a DoT like Moonfire or Insect Swarm, the remaining ticks are re-evaluated after the next tick does its damage. You shouldn't use haste just prior to a large sequence of instant casts.

Starsurge should simply be used whenever it is off cooldown, regardless of if you are about to enter an Eclipse or not. Given the procing nature of Shooting Stars, it is never advisable to save the cooldown for an Eclipse because you have the chance of having that reproc again while you are waiting thus wasting your prior cooldown.

The benefit of Eclipse was misquoted at 36%. The base benefit is 25%, you gain 1.5% per point of Mastery. Provided you are geared correctly this means you would gain 12% from having 8 mastery for all leather gear, giveing you 37% bonus to arcane or nature damage.

Starfall still does more damage on multiple targets than on a single target, so its usage depends more on the context. While Lunar Eclipse does buff the damage, if you are less than say 20 seconds away from a point where there will be multiple targets, it is better to save your Starfall due to the fact that 200% damage is always greater than 137% damage. This is now a difference of about one third the cooldown duration since Starfall is one third stronger during an Eclipse. If you are less than 20 seconds from a Lunar Eclipse, Starfall should be saved for the Lunar Eclipse.

Your DoT renewal isn't ideal. Because of the never losing the last tick mechanic, the ideal time to renew DoTs is whenever they are one tick from completion, however, you may want to let one DoT fall off prior to an Eclipse proc in order to benefit from the refreshed cooldown of Nature's Grace from the Eclipse. During an Eclipse, a DoT renewal should always be your second cast in order to get the maximum benefit from it (it can not be the first cast because the Eclipse buff may not have proced yet, given the delay between the cast hitting and the buff becoming active. Ideally this should be Moonfire heading into a Lunar Eclipse. It doesn't matter which DoT fades entering a Solar Eclipse as both are Nature, but ideally you would want to renew Insect Swarm during your Solar Eclipse given that it is one of the highest DPET abilities in the game, especially when Eclipsed. Also, damage of DoTs is calculated at the time they are applied. So it is always more benefitial to renew them during an Eclipse if they are of the appropriate damage type.

You make no reference at all to the spell, Sunfire.

Your Glyph selection is faulty as well. Starfall and Focus should both be taken as they both provide a DPS increase. Hurricane is a situational only glyph, not one you would use all the time. Thorns is also a highly benefitial glyph for raiding in particular as you can front load tank threat for add spawns.

Starsurge doesn't proc. Shooting Stars procs.

You can't turn off the spell queing. That option does not exist yet, it was being given the option to adjust the latency of it but the slider isn't in as of 4.0.1.

Your stat table is incomplete.
Spirit/Hit (to Cap) > Intellect > Spellpower > Haste > Crit > Mastery
While Haste is more valuable than Crit, you neglect to mention most of the other stats completely. In high end (T10+) gear Intellect and Spellpower can actually overtake Spirit/Hit in value, however since that is the first stat you can choose to prioritize it would still be higher priority than Haste.

You fail to cover the concept of pre-emptively predicting Eclipse. Based on energy value and spells being cast or in the air already, one can predict a coming Eclipse to change your next cast.
For Example, BalancePowerTracker (http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info18000-BalancePowerTracker.html)

Mclelle
11-07-2010, 01:51 PM
You can't turn off the spell queing. That option does not exist yet, it was being given the option to adjust the latency of it but the slider isn't in as of 4.0.1.
That is correct . Playing to much cata beta and mixing stuff up. That one goes on me and also edited on video now.


Starfall still does more damage on multiple targets than on a single target, so its usage depends more on the context. While Lunar Eclipse does buff the damage, if you are less than say 20 seconds away from a point where there will be multiple targets, it is better to save your Starfall due to the fact that 200% damage is always greater than 137% damage. This is now a difference of about one third the cooldown duration since Starfall is one third stronger during an Eclipse. If you are less than 20 seconds from a Lunar Eclipse, Starfall should be saved for the Lunar Eclipse.

Ofc it depends . It as always . But as i say in the video the guide goes over the "Basics" of the druid rotation with some tips . Its far from a complite guide . Made one and turned out to be 24 min long going through everything in detail . And noone wants to watch that. In terms of saving your starfall for lunar eclipse for lets say 20 sec depends mainly if saving it means that you can use it 1 time less . If there is 15% hp on boss and you are heading for a lunar eclipse it benefits you , but if saving it means getting to use it 1 time less its a dps decrese, and this also have to be taken into consideration.


Starsurge doesn't proc. Shooting Stars procs.
Maker error . Edited in video. Minor issue although its important to stick to waht acually procs. Thank you for that!


Regarding the dots . The gloves are pressed beforehand to get 1 extra tic from start on moonfire and insect swarf. Think you missunderstood me there. Havent bene using any simulators for this but my testing has shown a slight dps increse in using them prio dots rather then after applying them.


Your Glyph selection is faulty as well.
I beg teh diffrent . Using focus glyph resluts in having to stand half the distance away from the boss (20 y ) rather then maximum (38-40y) . On alot of fights this is not beneficial and having to move into 20y of the boss to get your starfall to hit is a dps loss. Ofc if you can keep 20 y away from the boss and adds then fine . But in icc there is not alot of fights that this benefits your raid.



I personally take Solar Beam over the final point in Owlkin Frenzy
That is ofc a personal choice and depends on the boss . For maximum dps output 3 points in owlkin frenzy is still the best. Although i myself also take solarbeam for few fights here and there.



You fail to cover the concept of pre-emptively predicting Eclipse
That was left out in this video to keep the video as short as possible . Including that starfire gives 20 power and wrath 13 will be added to include that . Thank you for mentioning this!

// Mclelle

Quinafoi
11-07-2010, 02:23 PM
Regarding the dots . The gloves are pressed beforehand to get 1 extra tic from start on moonfire and insect swarf. Think you missunderstood me there. Havent bene using any simulators for this but my testing has shown a slight dps increse in using them prio dots rather then after applying them.

You realize of course the haste affecting DoTs ticking rate is re-calculated every tick. For example, when you cast a DoT that procs Nature's Grace, it will initially calculate the tick rate based on this buff not being present, however once the first tick occurs haste is re-evaluated and an additional ticks may be added because of this re-evaluation. A DoT haste aspect is recalculated every tick, so having haste active before the first tick isn't necessarily vital. Now depending on your current level of haste it may be more benefitial to do it before the DoTs application, however the actual DPET benefit to your abilities with a cast time is actual linear growth based on haste and is likely to have a more consistent benefit.


I beg teh diffrent . Using focus glyph resluts in having to stand half the distance away from the boss (20 y ) rather then maximum (38-40y) . On alot of fights this is not beneficial and having to move into 20y of the boss to get your starfall to hit is a dps loss. Ofc if you can keep 20 y away from the boss and adds then fine . But in icc there is not alot of fights that this benefits your raid.

http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-druid_balance_pve_updated_4_0_1_a/
Glyph of Focus benefits DPS. Glyph of Hurricane does not. Glyph of Hurricane is purely a situational glyph. If you disagree, then I recommend you consult Hamlet and WrathCalcs as that is the definitive guide.


That is ofc a personal choice and depends on the boss . For maximum dps output 3 points in owlkin frenzy is still the best. Although i myself also take solarbeam for few fights here and there.


For optimal throughput that is correct, however the majority of boss encounters do not have mechanics which reliably proc Owlkin Frenzy regardless.



That was left out in this video to keep the video as short as possible . Including that starfire gives 20 power and wrath 13 will be added to include that . Thank you for mentioning this!

Starsurge is 15, Starfire is 20 (40 euphoria), however Wrath is 13.3333 (26.3333 Euphoria). Wrath is 13 regularly however every third cast results in 1 additional power gain.

Mclelle
11-07-2010, 05:15 PM
http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-d...dated_4_0_1_a/
Glyph of Focus benefits DPS. Glyph of Hurricane does not. Glyph of Hurricane is purely a situational glyph. If you disagree, then I recommend you consult Hamlet and WrathCalcs as that is the definitive guide.

Yes. Focus benefits dps , but it also requiers you to be within 20 yards of your targets . Lets say on putri hc for example. In the transisionphase you will get stars falling on both adds and boss without the glyph . But with the glyph you have a very small , if even any chance of hiting both boss and add . Being able to maintane your possition and still hit both is both as dps increse as well as a way to help out your raid faster get the encounter down.

There is as well bosses like fester or rotface were you are required to maintane a surten distance and 20 yards is not very far from your target . This may result in your starfall not hitting the target unless you possition yourself to your and the raids dissadvantage?

Although i totally agree on the fact that focus glyph will give you more dps output on encounter were range is no issue and hurricane glyph is very situational.

Any comments on that?

Quinafoi
11-07-2010, 09:00 PM
You used Rotface as an example and that particular case the Glyph is actually better in the context that you can intentionally position yourself such that your Starfall stars will not hit the big ooze. With the larger range, you have to be significantly further away to insure you are not hitting the kited ooze to avoid pulling aggro. By reducing your range, you actually make it easier in that context. Also 20 yards is plenty significant for both Rotface and Festergut hard modes. This only means you are ranged DPS on the inner circle rather than the outer circle.

As for Putricide Hard Mode, yes, that is definately a valid case for not glyphing it. You can be in range of both adds between them, however this puts you in a very vunerable position if you were glyphed. Though I will disagree on one point. You actually don't want the stars to hit the boss, you want all of them to hit the two adds ideally (which since there are two targets still results in maximum number of stars). Stars hitting the boss actually takes away from the DPS on the adds which are the primary concern in the immediate moment.

Mclelle
11-08-2010, 02:36 AM
You actually don't want the stars to hit the boss, you want all of them to hit the two adds ideally (which since there are two targets still results in maximum number of stars). Stars hitting the boss actually takes away from the DPS on the adds which are the primary concern in the immediate moment.

Due to the debuff you get from doign purti hdm ( @least 25 man ) makes you do 90% reduced dmg on the add you dont have debuff for if i remember correctly . This means that the dmg you would do on the green one if you had red debuff would be around 50kish - 90% . so around 5 dmg .

this means its way mroe benficial hitting your add + the boss and making your position based on that.

But as you say . On rotface and fester you CAN be positioned so you have no problems hitting the boss with your stars even with the glyph . Although this means the raid have to adjust for your need to be within 20 yards and may lead to decresed raid dps and so forth . But YES . Glyph of focus is a dps increse . Just take marrowgar for example . There you stack on the boss and got several spikes to dps down . This is clearly a boss were you benefit from this glyph . And if we take LK25 hdm . That is an example of a fight Were you tactic means ranged groups are @ around 35-40 yards from the boss and the glyph will result in a dps loss.
The Prime glyphs are what to be focused on as well as starfall glyph . Rest is very optional and situational .

For you to get an idea about what 20 yards is . Here is a Screenshot of me standing 20-22 yards away form org training dummy :

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6818/20yards.jpg (Im the back one ofc. )


On a sidenote im sry about my spelling here and there. i dont have english as first Language.

// Mclelle

Mclelle
11-14-2010, 11:16 AM
Updated 14 november 19:05!

namiojo
11-15-2010, 08:07 AM
where is the guide ?P

Quinafoi
11-15-2010, 09:11 AM
Some other general advice.

Don't record audio while you are recording your video. Do them independent of each other when making a guide. Whatever audio codec you are using is fairly low quality and the quality can be enhanced greatly if you record your narration in another application. It sounds like a very low quality Vent codec.

Prepare a script ahead of time and practice it a few times. While you're doing your video guide you can actually practice it as well to get video timings but don't record your audio at the same time. This also avoids running into issues such as your use of profanity. Keep your audiance in mind and a prepared script can easily avoid slip ups like that.

You can edit both audio and video. You don't need to do them both start to finish in a single take. Especially if you have a prepared script you can break both the audio and video into scenes.