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View Full Version : Warrior Rage - A few facts in progress...

thesmall001
10-14-2010, 10:08 PM
So I'm trying to figure out DPS values for Fury Warriors and this whole modelling process is really tricky!

I spent about an hour coming to the conclusion that because rage is normalized, not only does damage per swing not change the rage generated (which I knew from blue posts) but it also doesn't matter what base swing speed your weapon has because they're all worth 6.5 Rage Per Second (RPS) or 390 Rage Per Minute (RPM) - Which I should probably have gotten just from "normal" part of the the name!:rolleyes:

I then did some number work and found that with enough haste to give us a 25% Attack Speed increase we'd go from 6.5 RPS to 8.66 RPS. That's 390 RPM to 520 RPM. Therefore 1% is the difference (520-390=130) divided by 25, therefore 1% haste is a 5.2 RPM increase. (Please correct me if any of this is wrong!!)

Since we need 32.79 haste for 1% that means 1 point in haste is 0.15 RPM rounded down. I know rage doesn't have a direct 1:1 damage value but this isn't the end of the story by far.

These are just a few things to save anyone modelling from scratch some time/effort/brain power that I thought I'd throw out there for easy access rather than just keeping to myself.

Thegreatme
10-14-2010, 10:49 PM
when you were testing this were you hard hit capped? just because 1% more attacks are going out doesn't mean that 1% more hits are actually occurring unless you are hard hit capped.

thesmall001
10-15-2010, 06:20 AM
This is based on a swing by swing measurment, I actually got a bunch of white weapons with different speed and took off all my gear except those and measured over 20 landed blows with each speed and took note of how much rage they generated and looked for the pattern then extrapolated. Note that on weapons that would give a non-integer value of Rage Per Swing they'd often get between two numbers (i.e 3.5s weapon would grant either 22 or 23 points, a 3.4s would grant 22 every single swing - that's not to say the value is precise but it's workable right?). Regardless I'm almost certain the normalized rate of rage generation is 6.5 Rage Per Second.

This started out as an attempt to see if hit or haste granted more overall benefit so hit doesn't affect these calculations. That's actually the next thing I wanted to check; what is the value of hit per point in comparison to haste.

I'll work on it a bit more later today (got to go shopping right now) but if we assume that more RPM is the only factor that determines Stat Value Per Point then it shouldn't take too much time to to find the exact value per point of hit before the hard cap however I'm not sure if RPM is the end-all way to measure the value for overall DPS increase. Two things to consider is that hit is cappable (so, if the difference is small, is it just better to aim for something that can be capped) and what value does haste have in regards to DPS increase that hit doesn't.

I also neglected to mention that (for those looking to reforge everything for max damage) point per point hit seems to give a small amount more benefit than haste (at 831 points hit was granting 27.01% additional benefit, haste was 25.34%) so that's some more figures to keep in mind.

woodyman
10-15-2010, 06:36 AM
im not a genius on all this maths stuff but would i be right in saying:

It would be possible to work out a rough minimum swing speed (rage generation) that you would need in order to make sure you have enough rage to use an ability every GCD

only reason i ask is because at the moment im struggling to even slam every GCD without running out and im wondering maybe i raped my haste to much? (i hope this makes sense)

thesmall001
10-15-2010, 07:41 AM
Well one thing is for sure; hit hard cap gives you a more reliable amount of generation so I can see why everyone's rushing to get the hit hard cap and I'd say that means hit > haste (not because of the numbers it adds to your dps necessairily but because of the pure benefit of reliablility) but with the hit hard cap and no haste you should still generate 6.5 RPS, assuming you're keeping enrage up 100% of the time (you should be able to do this with some luck and some smart use of our on-demand enrages) our base rotation (BT>RB>BT and loop) should include (in a perfect run) 20 Bloodthirsts and 10 raging blows (Don't be fooled by recount! It counts 1 raging blow as 2, one from each weapon) so that's a cost of (20*20 + 10*20) 600 RPM.

As stated no matter what speed weapon you've got equipped, with no haste and with the hit hard cap you should generate 390 RPM with just one Two-Handed. I'm assuming our off-hand generates half the rage it would if it were in the main hand because when I checked just I got 22 (MH damage) then 11 (OH damage) then 22 (MH) then 11 (OH) then 22 (MH) but I may be wrong! This in mind we should get 390 RPM + (390/2) RPM which is 585 RPM. So the minimum amount of rage we can generate (assuming the only talent we include is titans grip) is still not enough to do our minimum rotation.

Thegreatme, you seem to be the warrior top-dawg around here what were your finding in regards to off-hand generation? Does this seem (sadly) right to you?

thesmall001
10-15-2010, 09:20 AM
2349

So I spent 30 minutes on a dummy and found a few things for people who just don't know where to start in this new and confusing world of warriors.

A good fury warrior will never let anything stop the BT>RB>BT (I call it the bloodthirst sandwich) run every time Bloodthirst comes off cooldown. (Raging Blow should be approaching cooldown, off by the time the GCD from the first BT is over or it should not be on cooldown at all if it's the first cycle of the fight.) Use Beserker Rage and Death Wish to keep enraged as much as possible, you don't want to lose the sandwich as it comprises roughly 47.5% of all damage we do.

A good fury warrior will manage his rage more carefully than ever before, now that I'm only a fraction of a percentage away from the hit cap I never had trouble with rage, you just have to be smart about what you're using. Despite my theory crafting on the amount of rage we generate, it seems with talents in hand like flurry and battle trance we're fine. If you are running out rage then you're probably trying to use heroic strike every time it's off cooldown and we just can't afford to do that now. That being said even when I was pushing it I only came close to being rage starved, once or twice in that whole time I had to delay the sandwich by a second or two because I squashed a sandwich and heroic strike and slam all together as fast as possible.

A good fury warrior will learnt to work with Incite as best as possible. I didn't. I think my heroic striking could have been much better. Understand the mechanics (I think there must be an internal cooldown still?) and learn to time your HS well.

I am really looking forward to getting my hands on Inner Rage becaus, despite worrying for ages that we'd never use it because rage gen is too low, I'm really not having any trouble with rage gen now. I am at the hit cap and only have 14.24% haste and I have found it perfectly functional.

Macbrother
10-15-2010, 10:19 AM
A good fury warrior will never let anything stop the BT>RB>BT (I call it the bloodthirst sandwich) run every time Bloodthirst comes off cooldown. (Raging Blow should be approaching cooldown, off by the time the GCD from the first BT is over or it should not be on cooldown at all if it's the first cycle of the fight.) Use Beserker Rage and Death Wish to keep enraged as much as possible, you don't want to lose the sandwich as it comprises roughly 47.5% of all damage we do.

What type of numbers are you getting? Because I'm finding, actually, that the more I try and keep HS on cooldown, and the less I worry about maintaining an actual rotation, the more dps I'm doing. I finally broke 7k on my last test, and this is with a BT - > HS -> RB priority. I only use slam if BT/HS are on CD and I can't force an enrage to RB.

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