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View Full Version : Paladin Paladin tanking patch 4.0.1 rotation!



JmzRed
10-14-2010, 10:54 AM
Ok so i know this prob isn't the right place to put this but maybe a lovely mod will fix it for me later on :P

Anyways guys hopefully this may be of some great help to those paladins who are suffering with AoE tanking and single target tanking tps!

Although some changes have wrecked what we were used to no fear! times have changed and so we must adapt! After spending some time testing these theorys out i've comprised a rotation for AoE tanking and single target tanking that's easy to understand and dead simple.

Ok so first off when i pull i taunt a single target and dump consc. then if theres stray mobs i pick them up with righteous defense.

and then the rotation:

Hammer of the righteous
Judgment
Hammer of the righteous
Holy wrath
Hammer of the righteous
Shield of the righteous
Hammer of the righteous
Judgment
Hammer of the righteous
Avengers shield
Hammer of the righteous
Shield of the righteous
etc.

This works very well for me and its pretty much the same for single target tanking
Just change HotR with crusader strike also reminder drop consc every 30 seconds like clock work to help. And if the avengers shield procs don't use it unless it's instead of holy wrath and theres about 3 mobs left.

you can pick and chose between the placement of holy wrath and avengers shield depending on how many mobs you are AoE tanking, But remember this. Although avengers shield hits for a.. Shit load now. it only hits up to 3 mobs. So i make it my first prio to get most AoE done first.

Also if you're looking to dump some holy power throw a self heal it's nice for the extra healing but also helps the healers out

I hope this rotation has helped some of the frustrated tankadins out there!

good luck and pewpew!

Tracer
10-14-2010, 03:10 PM
I like it, its smooth im not waiting to get things off CD

But then again my latency might be what is helping me connecting the dots...

pinnacle2009
10-14-2010, 07:22 PM
May want to check about using WoG rather that SHoR for aoe.

Martie
10-14-2010, 07:37 PM
May want to check about using WoG rather that SHoR for aoe.
Nonsense.

There's two situations. Either the mobs aren't dangerous enough to matter, and WoG won't make a real difference (since the healer's task will be easy either way,) or the mobs will be dangerous, in which case there will be a mark that needs to be burned down first, and thus the need for extra threat on that.
Hell, I didn't even spec into the Word of Glory talents, I have better places to put my points.

Vass
10-14-2010, 08:27 PM
This has been my go for 4.0.1 Pally Tanking.

My seal of choice has been Seal of Righteousness for AoE and Seal of Truth for Single Target. Because I don't get the chance to get my 5 stack up in an AoE situation because I've been tab-targeting (and the warrior tank rejoice cause we finally understand what they've done all along).

My Priority has been(ish):
HotR
AS
Judgement
SotR With atleast and typically only 1 Holy Power (OMG! Let the trolls begin)
Conc (once everything is together)
Holy Wrath

My Single Target tanking has been as thus:
Seal of Truth, CS to 3 stacks holy power, Shield, AS on CD (remembering procs), Judge. I will also use Conc just for extra threat.

Remember that Wings and a Defensive CD can now be used at the same time unlike pre 4.0.1 where it invoked a 30 second downtime.

Learn to Tab Target. I did level a warrior at one time and I have got mates IRL who are prot wars and they tell me all the time to tab target and by god it works!

Seal of the Righteous changed from last patch... it's now worth a look at and a place on your bar.

Tab Target

Holy Wrath damages all targets not just Undead like pre 4.0.1 so it can be useful once things are together if Conc is on CD.


At the end of the day, pally tanking hasn't lost out in the AoE department, we still have great AoE threat and even better single target threat. Things to look out for is that AoE as a whole is going out of the game, Dead DPS will eventually learn after many wipes what that /assist command does.

People who spend their time QQing about pally tanks in 4.0.1 are the "awesome uber" tanks from 3.3.5 and pre that spent their entire time with 2 macros attached their mouse wheel going click, click, click while having Seal of Command up... welcome to the real world [of warcraft] n00bs, your days of been 'l33t' with two buttons has ended, time to L2P your class and learn to tank like every other tank class. :D !!!

JmzRed
10-15-2010, 02:01 AM
May want to check about using WoG rather that SHoR for aoe.

Well WoG isn't really worth it in a raid i mean the healers job is to "Heal" people and also the more dps you get out quick the mobs go down, Thats the way i see it

Kurtosis
10-15-2010, 09:01 PM
<- Noob protadin. What cd should protadins use when we get in trouble, and when? My prot pally is at 71, and I think when I use Divine Shield, it dumps aggro, but I'm not sure. It doesn't say anything about that on the tooltip though.

Tracer
10-15-2010, 11:50 PM
<- Noob protadin. What cd should protadins use when we get in trouble, and when? My prot pally is at 71, and I think when I use Divine Shield, it dumps aggro, but I'm not sure. It doesn't say anything about that on the tooltip though.

never use DS! unless you are about to seriously die and there is no other option... DP is its lesser counter part is a better option along with CD's from trinkets and USE: items when/if you get this ability called "Ardent Defender" that is an ability to use for when you are low on health and your healer can't click fast enough to heal you.

I hope this helps

Kurtosis
10-16-2010, 06:58 PM
Thanks Tracer, much appreciated. The tooltip on Divine Protection must be broken, though, because it says 'reduces damage by 0% for x seconds'. But thanks, I'll rework my action bars for DP instead of DS. I already have AD in one of my main cd slots.

pinnacle2009
10-17-2010, 04:10 PM
The point for the WoG wasnt to heal you. The reason I said it is because of the AoE threat it puts out. I am not sure how it compares to others, but i have heard of people using it for AoE threat rather than SHoR.

Tracer
10-17-2010, 11:57 PM
The point for the WoG wasnt to heal you. The reason I said it is because of the AoE threat it puts out. I am not sure how it compares to others, but i have heard of people using it for AoE threat rather than SHoR.

I thought WoG was about using it to over heal to get that shield effect? Any matter its bad enough threatlocks peel like they have a taunt i need the DPS to keep that boss on me. Since omen really dosen't show much of a threat gain then a 20k shield slam

pinnacle2009
10-18-2010, 05:32 AM
You say keep the boss on me.. I am talking Aoe pulls, not single target.

Anyway, it was something I heard on some other forum somewhere (maintankadin maybe?) I hadn't seen any numbers, so I figured it was worth mentioning.

Liberated
10-18-2010, 03:25 PM
Ok so i know this prob isn't the right place to put this but maybe a lovely mod will fix it for me later on :P

Anyways guys hopefully this may be of some great help to those paladins who are suffering with AoE tanking and single target tanking tps!

Although some changes have wrecked what we were used to no fear! times have changed and so we must adapt! After spending some time testing these theorys out i've comprised a rotation for AoE tanking and single target tanking that's easy to understand and dead simple.

Ok so first off when i pull i taunt a single target and dump consc. then if theres stray mobs i pick them up with righteous defense.

and then the rotation:

Hammer of the righteous
Judgment
Hammer of the righteous
Holy wrath
Hammer of the righteous
Shield of the righteous
Hammer of the righteous
Judgment
Hammer of the righteous
Avengers shield
Hammer of the righteous
Shield of the righteous
etc.

This works very well for me and its pretty much the same for single target tanking
Just change HotR with crusader strike also reminder drop consc every 30 seconds like clock work to help. And if the avengers shield procs don't use it unless it's instead of holy wrath and theres about 3 mobs left.

you can pick and chose between the placement of holy wrath and avengers shield depending on how many mobs you are AoE tanking, But remember this. Although avengers shield hits for a.. Shit load now. it only hits up to 3 mobs. So i make it my first prio to get most AoE done first.

Also if you're looking to dump some holy power throw a self heal it's nice for the extra healing but also helps the healers out

I hope this rotation has helped some of the frustrated tankadins out there!

good luck and pewpew!

Where is your Crusader Strike at in this rotation

Lordtalcor
10-18-2010, 06:38 PM
How about a talent link as well. Rotation doesn't mean NEAR as much if you have a few misplaced points.

uglybbtoo
10-18-2010, 06:57 PM
Where is your Crusader Strike at in this rotation

It replaces HotR for single target tanking

source:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?p=593310&rb_v=viewtopic#p593310

"939 can be modeled as a quasi-static rotation that looks like this:

CS-J-CS-X-CS-ShoR-"

You may also need to look at weapon choice if you are going for CS to maximize things

2367

Edit: Should mention that assumes raid tanking and your target has sunder etc debuffs on it in heroics there is not much between them you might as well stay with hotR.

thebestpaladintankever
10-18-2010, 08:01 PM
WoG is much better than SHoR, it givs you + 15% chance to block and causes aoe aggro. much better than SHoR to do damage and grab aggro from one creep.

Akeber
10-18-2010, 10:04 PM
WoG is much better than SHoR, it givs you + 15% chance to block and causes aoe aggro. much better than SHoR to do damage and grab aggro from one creep.

Umm, WoG is a heal. Yes it applies the holy shield buff (+15% block chance), but so does ShoR which is definately going to make more single target threat than WoG. Are you referring to the healing aggro that WoG would generate?

uglybbtoo
10-19-2010, 12:48 AM
I am with Akeber and even if was producing threat the whole point is sort of to kill the mobs standing there and healing yourself doesnt really do it for me sorry ... even if I could believe it generated high agro which I seriously doubt.

pinnacle2009
10-19-2010, 04:41 AM
Actually, the main point for a tank is to hold aggro and survive. It is the DPS's job to kill mobs. From what I keep reading and have experienced, WoG is MUCH better AoE threat. I used WoG on trash pulls in ICC the other night. Held aggro much better on multiple mobs than using SHoR.

uglybbtoo
10-19-2010, 08:54 AM
This is really stupid.

1.) So why not stat out healing stats and simply stand there and really heal well for extra AOE threat ... LOL it will make the healers life so much easier.

2.) As we have commented in other threads almost all dps can tank ICC trash now its trivial and will be even more so as we move forward. Shadow priests make the best ICC trash tanks around because they heal themselves as well as kill it .... so TBH if thats why you are doing lets replace you with a shadow because you are a bad trash tank compared to a shadow.

3.) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY the threat if it exists will be removed you can count on it because in situations it will cause problems the old Seal of Light from paladins had the exact same effect in naxx days and had to be patched. So relying on a mechanic that is not working as it is intended rather than learn the right way is just crazy.

Edit: And it took to 1min to google and find GC has already blue posted and slated it for scrapheap.

QUOTE: (source)http://wowdata.getbuffed.com/blueposts/viewtopic/27026399935
This is the kind of thing we're still messing around with. We want Protection to be able to use Word of Glory occasionally in emergencies or to help the healers out, but we are aware that if it's too potent, paladins will just tank by healing themselves (either because of threat generation or mana savings).

pinnacle2009
10-19-2010, 11:51 AM
Then it works, for now

uglybbtoo
10-19-2010, 05:27 PM
And fail tanks are fail :=)

pinnacle2009
10-19-2010, 09:43 PM
Have YOU tried? Working great in my opinion.

uglybbtoo
10-19-2010, 10:32 PM
Why would I bother I can tank them quite easily normally now we have worked out we just need a slow dps weapon to increase HotR threat and they tuned mages back a bit and I am actually helping kill them faster and the proper way it will still work tomorrow and they day after???

Thund-ED
10-20-2010, 06:31 PM
http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?71436-Pala-Tanks-have-it-easy-with-Single-Target-AoE-requires-some-thought-(From-DPS)&p=466250#post466250

I tried to cover most of the details in here including talent tree and glyphs. only saw this thread after i posted mine and i agree with it with maybe a few changes.

I use slightly different rotation than youve got for AoE tanking for now and when they remove the Threat generation from WoG im sure il use the same one as youve got.

Tracer
10-24-2010, 11:48 PM
sry about that I wasn't paying attention to what I was saying.. WoG for AoE is better then SotR

BUT in 5m Heroics it just feels like a waste since I'm full health and I got full threat anyways its the Boss' that are my concern since that is where I can't seem to hold threat well it slips away I mean when the DPS are eager and jump the gun before I can do anything

CatabriOnEarthen
10-25-2010, 08:19 AM
its the Boss' that are my concern since that is where I can't seem to hold threat well it slips away I mean when the DPS are eager and jump the gun before I can do anything

This is a DPS problem, not a tanking problem. My coRL and I were quite clear on vent last night. If you attack before we say you can, you will rip the mobs away. And you will die. (Not so subtle hint for the healers there.)

Banterloft
10-25-2010, 08:36 AM
Boss I pull with shield, judge, crusader, (by this time MD or TotT has gone off), AW, Crusader, Pew Pew, crusader, Shield and repeat. I haven't had an issue yet including solo tanking LK.

CatabriOnEarthen
10-25-2010, 09:05 AM
Boss I pull with shield, judge, crusader, (by this time MD or TotT has gone off), AW, Crusader, Pew Pew, crusader, Shield and repeat. I haven't had an issue yet including solo tanking LK.

Only works if you toss your frisbee before the mage hits it w/ a frostbolt. Seriously. I've seen mages pulling mobs, iceblocking, and then the healer got pwnd. (I was the healer). The tank was new, and the mage decided to pull for him. The entire 1/2 instance I stayed.

Banterloft
10-25-2010, 11:27 AM
Only works if you toss your frisbee before the mage hits it w/ a frostbolt. Seriously. I've seen mages pulling mobs, iceblocking, and then the healer got pwnd. (I was the healer). The tank was new, and the mage decided to pull for him. The entire 1/2 instance I stayed.

You should always open with AS. Always. This will give you enough lead on aggro to stay ahead of the mage. If the mage pulls, toss salv on the heal, let the mage die, taunt the add back. When the mobs are at 10%, make a B-line and chain pull the next group, and so on and so one. Let them run back and stand at the door because the group is in combat. These DPS have to learn somehow. Tough love time.

CatabriOnEarthen
10-25-2010, 11:36 AM
These DPS have to learn somehow. Tough love time.

My brand of tough love depends on what toon I'm playing. Shammy/Drood...let jerks die. Pally, yeah, salv healz, let dps die. 'Lock/dk/hunter don't be THAT guy (or girl, in my case.) Oddly enough, I let the tank get aggro, and still out dps the retards that refuse to let the tank have even 1 GCD to build threat. Course, I'm not having to run for my life, either.

NoobAggro
10-26-2010, 12:18 PM
Umm, WoG is a heal. Yes it applies the holy shield buff (+15% block chance), but so does ShoR which is definately going to make more single target threat than WoG. Are you referring to the healing aggro that WoG would generate?


Umm yourself! When has healing not generated threat? I learned to hold back on healing during aoe pulls. As a healer, I've had mobs come after me when I heal too early. The same principle applies to WOG.

Healing will and always has been a threat generator. (not much, but always AOE threat)

Please learn to read people. Pinnacle keeps stating AOE AOE AOE NOT single target. He didn't say use it to heal yourself. Yes, use SHoR on single targets. Since when has SHoR worked as AOE threat? SHoR will always be single target and marking 1 main for dps like BT trash. WOG will generate threat on 1000+ different mobs. Do you know how long it will take to hit SHoR on each mob (50+) to Sindragosa and I'm not talking about the gauntlet? 15+ adds Lady 25 6+ adds to Marrowgar. 10+ TOC 10+ adds to Sourgelord POS. You get the picture.

NoobAggro
10-26-2010, 01:52 PM
This is really stupid.

1.) So why not stat out healing stats and simply stand there and really heal well for extra AOE threat ... LOL it will make the healers life so much easier.

Why doesn't the healer just sit there and tank? It doesn't generate as much threat as other abilities. This was an AOE substitution for 1 single target melee ability, which you can not spam, since it requires generation of holy power.


2.) As we have commented in other threads almost all dps can tank ICC trash now its trivial and will be even more so as we move forward. Shadow priests make the best ICC trash tanks around because they heal themselves as well as kill it .... so TBH if thats why you are doing lets replace you with a shadow because you are a bad trash tank compared to a shadow.

Yes, 1-2 mob okay - 3 to 20 mobs = dead dps

I hate when a tank gets angry because the dps keeps pulling ago from them. If they can shield themselves and heal themselves it's okay. Just don't stress out the healers.
As a 6300GS mage - I pull mobs all the time and die all the time. Ice block on coodown :mad:


3.) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY the threat if it exists will be removed you can count on it because in situations it will cause problems the old Seal of Light from paladins had the exact same effect in naxx days and had to be patched. So relying on a mechanic that is not working as it is intended rather than learn the right way is just crazy.

I would never put WOG into a rotation for bosses. SHoR is the bread and butter for threat. We are talking about trash AOE, so who really cares?

Sparkone
12-26-2010, 12:49 PM
I would have thought that trying to pop the extra 10% block value from using WoG, SHoR or INQ would be something tht should be happening sooner in rotations. Popping INQ between pulls with w/e excess Holy Power for the +30% Holy dmg at start of each I fiond helps alot.
Isn't tank about dmg mitigation at the end of the day?