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pbean
10-14-2010, 05:18 AM
Hello,

I've been looking at all the changes and it is very overwhelming. But... I'm getting there. :)

I read some nice information about reforging dodge and parry to mastery to get to the block cap. It was an interesting read until I found out it's only really possible when you have a lot of item level 277 gear (and to be honest I'm in 251's). So that idea was off the table.

I'm not really doing any serious progress, just tanking ICC10 some times to help my friends out. So I was thinking to invest a bit more in threat (and/or DPS) instead of avoidance or survivability.

So what I was wondering, is expertise currently useful for Paladin tanks?

When I just started to be serious about tanking I read that it was nigh useless for Paladins since a lot of abilities were spells instead of melee abilities, so hit was way more useful.

Then later I think I read it was more useful because more of the Paladin's abilities were affected by it. But I decided I wouldn't really gem or gear for it unless I got threat issues. I've always been more of a survivability freak so I can get out of tough situations.

However right now everything is new. Survivability isn't really an issue in ICC10 normal mode. But I also don't know if expertise is any good. I'm at 10% hit so I really want to reforge some of that. And maybe some of my dodge and parry too. But I don't know into what (mastery? expertise?).

And if expertise is really useless right now, I might as well reforge any expertise I have into other stats (mastery? parry?)

Thanks in advance. :)

pinnacle2009
10-14-2010, 05:23 AM
Reforge you hit rating down to 8% putting the points into expertise.

When you say survivability is not an issue in ICC10.. HAVE you tanked since the patch? I am in full 264 (besides a 245, 251, and a 277) and could not take the hits from heroic fester last night in 10man.

pbean
10-14-2010, 05:30 AM
Reforge you hit rating down to 8% putting the points into expertise.

When you say survivability is not an issue in ICC10.. HAVE you tanked since the patch? I am in full 264 (besides a 245, 251, and a 277) and could not take the hits from heroic fester last night in 10man.

Yes I have tanked in ICC10 since the patch, and it was easier in three ways for me. First of all, I seemed to be easier on the healers (taking less damage? I'm not sure). The healers appeared to be way better somehow so that was a lot easier. Also the DPS was way, way higher than what it used to be, so everything died so extremely fast. There wasn't even time to panic about anything.

But as I said it's just ICC10 on normal. I'm not really progessing with this guild and not doing any heroic modes (except lootship, but that's impossible now). Though we didn't have a decent shot at Sindra or LK yet, but I'm just guessing that with my gear it won't be a problem at all. And if things go bed then I can always reforge back to other stats.

Anyway, how important is expertise then? Which abilities are affected by it and which aren't? I'm confused by some abilities which appear to be melee abilities but deal holy damage.

Nagoyah
10-14-2010, 06:35 AM
Expertise soft cap is 26, at that rating raid bosses (+3 levels above you) will not be able to dodge your melee attacks although I believe there is still a low chance of parrying them, with glyph SoV and reforging some of that excess +hit you got you will more than cover the expertise soft cap.

pbean
10-14-2010, 08:09 AM
I think you misunderstood my question. I will quote the two important parts:


So what I was wondering, is expertise currently useful for Paladin tanks?


Anyway, how important is expertise then? Which abilities are affected by it and which aren't? I'm confused by some abilities which appear to be melee abilities but deal holy damage.

Thanks in advance. :)

pinnacle2009
10-14-2010, 07:25 PM
Expertise is very important. One of the top three threat stats. Soft cap it, now.

Easier on healers? :S Weird. I got 3 shotted on Heroic Fester after the FIRST inhaled blight.

Vass
10-14-2010, 08:31 PM
If you find yourself without your meta requirements filled a nice expertise/stam gem or two should do the trick. Expertise has always been something a Pally Tank should have been keeping in the back of their minds.

pbean
10-15-2010, 03:46 AM
Expertise is very important. One of the top three threat stats. Soft cap it, now.

Easier on healers? :S Weird. I got 3 shotted on Heroic Fester after the FIRST inhaled blight.

As I noted, I've not been doing Heroic modes but just normal modes. And everything seemed nice and easier there.

But what is the other top threat stat? There's hit at #1, then there's expertise, but what's the third?


If you find yourself without your meta requirements filled a nice expertise/stam gem or two should do the trick. Expertise has always been something a Pally Tank should have been keeping in the back of their minds.

I used to fill my meta on my Warrior with expertise/stamina, because of how important expertise is. On my Paladin I've been using agility/stamina, though. Expertise has always been in the back of my mind, yes, but it hasn't always been that clear what the value was. Especially since a lot of abilities used to be just spells instead of melee abilities, and plain auto attacks weren't that valuable then.

Ryoku
10-15-2010, 04:43 AM
Just get block capes (102,4%) use the macro to find out how high you are ( add 15% for holy shield). Try to blaance dodge and parry at around 21,6% and 21,21% respectively make up the rest with mastery et voila ;)

I didn't find out the info my source here: link (http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=6&t=29787&rb_v=viewtopic)

pinnacle2009
10-15-2010, 02:14 PM
If I understand right, I would not use the Agi/Stam gem. I use the +10 stat gem.

Theres expertise, hit, and strength. I know expertise used to be THE priority to cap. I am fairly sure the the priority of what's needed is actually just the order I just listed them (Exp > Hit > Str). I could be wrong, but I am about 85% positive that's right.

pbean
10-16-2010, 04:23 AM
Just get block capes (102,4%) use the macro to find out how high you are ( add 15% for holy shield). Try to blaance dodge and parry at around 21,6% and 21,21% respectively make up the rest with mastery et voila ;)

I didn't find out the info my source here: link (http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=6&t=29787&rb_v=viewtopic)

Seriously? I ask about expertise and you reply about something I already noted in my start post is impossible (I don't even have >21% parry on my character).



If I understand right, I would not use the Agi/Stam gem. I use the +10 stat gem.

Theres expertise, hit, and strength. I know expertise used to be THE priority to cap. I am fairly sure the the priority of what's needed is actually just the order I just listed them (Exp > Hit > Str). I could be wrong, but I am about 85% positive that's right.

Agi/Stam used to be a very nice gem before 4.0.1, I just haven't bothered to change it yet.

As I said the view on expertise has changed a couple of times. It's definitely the priority to cap for Warriors, no doubt about that. But for Paladins some abilities weren't affected by expertise in the past. That's why I was wondering what is affected by expertise right now and what isn't. Because if only 1 ability is affected by expertise, what's the use of getting expertise, eh? :P

Ryoku
10-16-2010, 04:50 AM
Delete please