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kungfugrip
10-02-2010, 09:01 AM
CURRENT TO 3.3.5

People think MM is the way to go but I did the elitist jerks MM spec
and I was even ArP softcapped w/ needle encrusted scorpion and I
did like 1k less DPS... trueshot aura is not worth a 1k dps loss,
especially when you have DK's with abomination's might (same thing
as Trueshot, and they don't stack), and other MM hunters. Besides,
SV gives the raid replenishment. I out DPS EVERY MM hunter
I have raided with, by 1-2k dps consistently, some of which had over
1000 more GS than I do.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#cZ0eVooZx0ci0cIhgdAhsu:fANzMm

^this is the spec setup that you're gonna want if you are playing your hunter.
browse HERE (http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=us&server=Shattered%20Halls&name=Dirtball) (under "Equipment") for gems/chants.

Note: I don't use the frag belt in raids. I suppose you could on mad AoE
pulls or if you are oom or something but I just threw it on there in case
I get jumped in world pvp.

PET: WOLF. WOLF IS BEST PVE PET ATM, PERIOD. I know everyone wants
a sexy spirit beast or whatever else, but wolf is the way to go. If you want
a sexy wolf then get Vargul Blighthound (http://www.wowhead.com/npc=29889), it's what I use.

http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?pid=1&tal=210000130300003010101

Check that for the wolf spec. Only thing that should be turned on
auto-cast for the wolf is furious howl, dash, rabid and bite.

Flasks/food:
Flask of Endless Rage (http://www.wowhead.com/item=46377)
Blackened Dragonfin (http://www.wowhead.com/item=42999)
Spiced Mammoth Treats (http://www.wowhead.com/item=43005) for pet

Aspect: Dragonhawk during fights, viper between fights or on trash before boss.

CC: If on the rare occasion these days someone tells you to CC a mob, use
Wyvern sting instead of freezing trap or frost arrow (unless you are CCing two).
Wyvern sting will hit them with some damage after the CC is over so might as
well use that instead. Plus you don't have to worry about them not stepping on the trap.

Fights:

-> Toss up Hunter's Mark (unless a glyphed/specced imp HM hunter has it up), and MD
tank before pull, and anytime during the fight that it's up and all your shots are on CD
and you are moving and can't steady shot. (see below for good MD/focus macro)
-> Start fight with Serpent Sting then Black Arrow (or vice versa, based on T9 bonus),
then explosive shot, then aimed/multi shot, then follow below priority.

Rest of moves are on this "Priority", listed from top priority to least:

-> Kill Shot when available
-> Explosive shot free procs from Lock and Load (spam it until it goes on CD)
-> Serpent Sting up (if you have 2 pieces T9, if not black arrow first,
then serpent sting)
-> Black arrow up
-> Explosive Shot when off CD
-> Aimed shot (single target) or Multi-shot (more than 1 mob in the area)
when off CD [using multi shot instead of aimed shot when there's 2 or
more is really key for raping the DPS... lots of hunters dont pay
attention and just use aimed shot the whole time]
-> Steady Shot filler when all else is on CD

Obviously use your better judgement here... if serpent sting or black arrow need to
be refreshed, but the mob is about to die in like 10 seconds... don't bother.
Also, if kill shot is about to be ready in a matter of 1-2 seconds, wait on your other moves
(dont wait longer than 1-2 seconds though) so you can use it right away when its ready.
Don't want to be on GCD from one of your other shots, or in the middle of a steady shot
when kill shot is ready, and then have the mob die before you can get it off. Because
my kill shot hits for like 25k.

AoE - don't just volley. MD, then multi-shot. Volley until
Multi-Shot is off CD, then as soon as it is off CD use Multi-Shot
again even if it interrupts ur volley. Then volley again until
Multi-Shot is ready again, rinse repeat. Multi-Shot does a LOT of
DPS. BTW target the mobs during AoE that way you can still use kill
shot when it is ready to really up your DPS, then go back to
multi-shot and volley while you wait for Kill Shot on the next mob. I
macro'ed my shot moves with /stopcasting (see below for shot macro)
That way if you are volleying or steady-shotting you can still just hit
the move and have it go off without waiting for the steady shot or volley timer.

Before a pull if you have time you can lay a frost trap (the one that
slows in an area, not the one that CC's a mob) where you know there
are gonna be mobs, and that will activate your lock and load 3 free
explosive shots w/ no CD proc if a mob hits it. Plus it keeps mobs
slowed down for easier control, which helps the raid. Don't bother
laying it down in the middle of the fight though (unless you are doing
saurfang and it's your job) bc you will just be wasting rotation time and
stuff and GCD's.

I macro'd my pet's 5min CD move into Rapid Fire, and on boss fights i
don't hit rapid fire until i get to where i am doing my steady shots
and everything else is on CD (kind of a waste if you hit it while
you're still casting instant cast moves... wait until you get Sting,
Black Arrow, Explosive Shot, and Aimed/Multi Shot off first, then pop
Rapid Fire right when you start spamming Steady Shot so you can get
off like 5 in a row lol). If it's a long fight be sure to use it
again. So on your wolf leave Call of the Wild off of Automatic so you
can activate it in conjunction w/ Rapid Fire, on boss fights. Again, use
your judgement here. Don't hit it right before a phase where you can't
DPS or anything like that. If you are gonna fight another boss within the
next 5 mins, decide which boss fight would get the most use of it (which
has the least amount of movement involved, etc.) Anyway, here is the macro:

#showtooltip Rapid Fire
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/stopcasting
/use [combat]10
/use [combat]13
/use [combat]14
/startattack
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Call of the Wild
/cast Rapid Fire
/cast Kill Command
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/run UIErrorsFrame:Clear()


I also macroed my AP trinkets and Racials and Kill Command to all my
instant cast shots like Explosive Shot and Aimed Shot and stuff, ie:

#showtooltip Explosive Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/stopcasting
/use [combat]10
/use [combat]13
/use [combat]14
/startattack
/cast [combat]Blood Fury
/cast Explosive Shot
/cast Kill Command
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/run UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

Just copy that macro and replace the shot names and do it for black
arrow, explosive shot, aimed shot, and multi shot. The sound_enable
and errors frame stuff is so your dude doesn't keep saying "that isn't
ready yet" and stuff if the stuff is on CD. If you are not an engineer
take out the /use [combat]10 line, that is for the hyperspeed
accelerators on the gloves. If you aren't an orc or troll then just take
out the racial ability line.

/startattack is key b/c it will automatically target the next mob if
the one you are on dies.

I put down 12k DPS in ICC 25 on Stinky/Marrowgar/Fester/etc, where I
can hold still. I was the top DPS the entire raid and I only have like 5367GS
(at the time that i'm writing this guide) and others in the raid had like 6k+ GS.
Cause I know WTF I'm doing haha.

btw when you are macroing the shots, some of them might be longer than
255 characters... if that is the case just take out "/startattack"
line, it should target the next mob itself

MD macro:

#showtooltip Misdirection
/dismount
/stopcasting
/cast [nomod:shift,@focus,exists,help][nomod:shift,@pet,exists]Misdirection
/focus [mod:shift]target

Target the tank, hold shift and hit this macro. Tank is now focus. Then just hit the macro any time (without holding shift) to MD your focus. Don't even have to stop targeting your current target. If you have no focus, it will MD your pet (for questing and whatnot). Voila.

kungfugrip
10-02-2010, 09:05 AM
btw you only need 8% hit cap but i have way more than that just from my gear... i am not gemmed/chanted for it at all. if i replace those items, i lose agility and ap and the other gear stats so i'm just keeping them. obviously as i get better upgrades i will replace them and hopefully there will be diff stats than hit on the gear.

Mallekai
10-03-2010, 07:49 AM
btw you only need 8% hit cap but i have way more than that just from my gear... i am not gemmed/chanted for it at all. if i replace those items, i lose agility and ap and the other gear stats so i'm just keeping them. obviously as i get better upgrades i will replace them and hopefully there will be diff stats than hit on the gear.

you can replace MoS with just about any other trinket in game for a significant dps gain. we're talking even the freebee that drops off the brewfest dude

kungfugrip
10-03-2010, 11:15 AM
Yeah i'm aware of that but I keep MoS on when i'm not playing for all those people hellbent on gearscores lol. As of right now I sub in Darkmoon Greatness when actually DPSing

swollenpickles
10-05-2010, 08:15 PM
I think you're initial problem may have been soft capping arp and relying on the trinket procs of the NES to hit the hard cap. You'd probably have been better off gemming agility, equipping another trinket (eg. mirror of truths) and forgetting arp. I believe NES has an internal CD of 50secs, it's proc lasts 10secs. When you look at it that way, best case scenario is that you are attacking with 1400 arp for 10 seconds every minute. So for the other 50secs gemming for arp rather than agility is a waste. Long story short, people that try MM often end up too fixated on ArP. IMHO if you can only reach 1400 arp with the help of a trinket proc then you are better off chasing agi over arp. For fights with more movement this is even more the case.

I don't believe that there is a 1-2k dps difference between MM and survival (which ever camp you fall in). If you have 2 similarly geared hunters, one MM and one survival, and there's a 2k dps difference between the two, then one of those hunters is doing something wrong.

No offense, but personally I find it hard to take advice from someone that's running a hit trinket when they are already well over the hit cap for the sole purpose of GS. I also quickly plugged your toon into femaledwarf.com and with your current gear and spec it spits our 4048dps. If all you did was change your spec to a common MM build it goes up to 4231dps.

Might also be worth mentioning your raid experience is a little limited (showing you've cleared the first four of ICC10 twice on wowheroes), so when you say stuff like
I out DPS EVERY MM hunter I have raided with, by 1-2k dps consistently, some of which had over 1000 more GS than I do. it's a little misleading. A sample of 1-2 isn't that large. Might want to seriously reconsider the title of your post.

Loganisis
10-05-2010, 10:37 PM
Weren't Hunters spec-ing Survival when ICC first dropped (first wing) because the gear was better suited for SV? Then after a DBW, a few ArP pieces, MM for static fights and SV for movement fights?

Also, with 4.0.1 dropping in 7 days in all likelihood...

Aspects.Boulderfist
10-06-2010, 06:32 AM
Oh my god, using gear score is so important, right? We have to use higher item levels to get into raids, so let's throw our itemization just to do so.

Alright, your hit rating is absolute garbage and it's a waste of several pieces of equipment.
Expertise on that cape? MAN, WE TOTALLY NEED THAT PARRY REDUCTION.
Hand-mounted Pyro Rockets > Hyperspeed Accelerators with your gear set-up.

Simply looking at your little anecdote makes me not believe a thing written; your most well-buffed dps would be about 9k without ICC buff; 12k isn't possible.

For you to have been Armor Penetration "Soft-capped", you would have to gem for Armor Penetration with your current gear set-up. It is a decrease in dps until you have a significant amount of base Armor Penetration - at which point, you'd be aiming for the Hard-cap rather than the Soft-cap.

Of course, I'm probably jumping the gun by making the assumption that you actually have decent equipment apart from what your armory shows. If you are as your armory shows, your little tests as Marksman are heavily flawed and not even close to being optimized.

Thank you for making a terribly inaccurate representation of both Survival and Marksman, as well as pretending like your little anecdote actually had some credibility.

Outperforming other bad players doesn't make you a good player.

Khilbron
10-06-2010, 07:09 AM
This ^ and if you review WoL MM destroys SV on the majority of the fights. Please don't try to make comparisons when you don't have the gear to properly do so.

Sent from my Evo 4G using Tapatalk

Theotherone
10-06-2010, 07:26 AM
It's a nice try and you do make some valid points, but overall you'll find that there is a lot of reliance on the numbers here. While you can't tell from some of the posts, it's usually more civil then EJ or the Official Forums.

By way of some critique - your tone is a bit off putting. I run my hunter in both MM and Sur (I keep two sets of gear, 'cause I like some variety), but MM is the better overall dps - not to say that Survival can't hold its own, but ArPen capped MM if you run the spreadsheets will out dps Survival. Survival is more forgiving, I find, on movement fights. You have some good observations on rotation, but it's hard to take your points seriously when you make statements about 12k on fights that the wow-heroes link you posted show have not been done. Unless you have another hunter.

You'll find that before posting a guide, you really need to square your points away and back them up with empirical data (do the math first) or you're just going to be opening yourself up to needless attacks.

Here's Wharfrat, my hunter he can do a bit of dps as either MM or Sur: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Alexstrasza&cn=Wharfrat

Aspects.Boulderfist
10-06-2010, 07:49 AM
Although it is nice to get that Hard-cap for Armor Penetration, it's by no means a high priority. Reaching the hit cap and set bonuses come first.

Yes, that includes the poster above me, who should use Tier 10 shoulders instead of that 251 piece from Gunship. Making the switch would result in a 500 potential dps increase. Yes, I know it's an alt, but hey, if other people look at your build, they should be told that your character isn't fully optimized.

Theotherone
10-06-2010, 08:08 AM
Although it is nice to get that Hard-cap for Armor Penetration, it's by no means a high priority. Reaching the hit cap and set bonuses come first.

Yes, that includes the poster above me, who should use Tier 10 shoulders instead of that 251 piece from Gunship. Making the switch would result in a 500 potential dps increase. Yes, I know it's an alt, but hey, if other people look at your build, they should be told that your character isn't fully optimized.

Thanks for looking at that, I never really thought go change out the Shoulders, but according to femaledwarf.com it's a 340 dps increase. I was not a big fan of the set bonus, I run on my Sur set since i have the 251 legs, but i'll grab the Shoulders tonight when I get home.

Aspects.Boulderfist
10-06-2010, 08:18 AM
Oh, I was checking your Marksman damage, not Survival. In my opinion, Marksmen benefits more from the two-piece set bonus because they can reapply their buffed Serpent Sting with Chimera Shot.

Theotherone
10-06-2010, 08:43 AM
Oh, I was checking your Marksman damage, not Survival. In my opinion, Marksmen benefits more from the two-piece set bonus because they can reapply their buffed Serpent Sting with Chimera Shot.

Yeah, that's MM damage I was checking too. In my Survival Set, i use the tier legs with the Helm - I just never really thought to change out the shoulder in my MM set; been focused on upgrading the shoulders by getting an H Lootship drop but I just have no luck since winning DBW a few weeks ago.

The Sur set is almost complete, just really need a helm and I'll have a full Sur set of gear. I've picked up so much gear in ICC that it only made sense to try to get a full set of alternate gear. I really like Sur better, it feels more comfortable to me, but MM is just more damage these days; so it's hard to justify not using it.

swollenpickles
10-06-2010, 07:59 PM
I put down 12k DPS in ICC 25 on Stinky/Marrowgar/Fester/etc, where I can hold still. I was the top DPS the entire raid and I only have like 5367GS (at the time that i'm writing this guide) and others in the raid had like 6k+ GS. Cause I know WTF I'm doing haha.

Missed this on first read through, but I'm going out on a limb and calling this BS. Looking you up on wowheroes and the wowarmory and you've done gunship to deathbringer in 25man a grand total of once. You haven't even downed marrowgar in 25man yet. So unless there is a major bug in the armory system you claiming to have done 12k dps on 25 marrowgar and fester is a total fabrication.

By making stuff up you really lose all credibility in terms of everything else you've said.

kungfugrip
10-09-2010, 12:35 PM
I stated that I just leave the hit trinket equipped when I'm not actually in combat so that people who mouseover me and see my gearscore will be satisfied, and until I get something better I am currently replacing it with Darkmoon Card: Greatness when we're actually about to start fighting. Sad that I have to do that, but welcome to my server. So any comments ROFLing at that are irrelevant since I stated it way up there.

And I have done on that toon all the way through Fester/Rot on 25 man but the pug as a whole couldn't down them. Perhaps Marrowgar was on 10 on that character. Not sure why it wouldn't show on the system. There were 24 other people there though for Deathwhisper and on (and for Sarth and other raids as well) that saw my DPS and even told me I should write something up about my spec/rotation for other hunters since I was blowing them out of the water with way crappier gear, so I figured I'd try to help out and make one, especially with all these hunters running around in blue gear specced MM and doing horrible DPS, only because they were copying other more-geared hunters. Just trying to offer an alternative way to go. I didn't realize that people would get upset about it. Either way it was just food for thought for people, if it's so visually offensive then don't follow it. No need to get personally offended.

A lot of the items do have stats that aren't needed, but I can only control my own gems and enchants and go with anything that's remotely an upgrade otherwise. It's not like I gemmed/chanted hit or expertise. If it was up to me, I'd have BiS for every item. If you saw the items that they replaced, you would understand why they are currently equipped. I'd rather have some expertise on my cloak than Ice Striker's Cloak (http://www.wowhead.com/item=43566). Gotta go with what you are given/can acquire. Like I stated when I linked the WH, I said go there to see the gemming/chanting setup. Not the gear BiS listing.

Not sure why this turned into a semantics analysis/bashing of me thread, but my fault for tryna help people out somewhat or offer an alternative to MM for people who aren't happy with their MM dps. I think people are too focused on the 1-2 sentences of comparison to MM that I made in passing, and not focusing on the SV rotation/spec/priorities and stuff which is moreso what the guide is about. I'm new to this whole guide thing, but it won't happen again. Sorry to waste people's time. Hopefully at least my macros helped people.

Khilbron
10-10-2010, 03:01 AM
Its not that its a matter of alternative or not, you straight up stated SV > MM. However you neglected to provide proper comparisons with proper equipment setups. SV and MM use 2 completely different gear sets. In a raid enviornment MM is just purely dominant over SV, and i mean DOMINANT. If you compare an SV hunter, and an MM hunter both in their proper gearsets, the MM hunter will prevail. You can even jump on over to World of Logs and check the difference. On stationary fights like Saurfang, MM hunters are doing on average 5000 more dps than SV hunters, and on movement fights like Lich King, they are doing around 3000 more than SV hunters.

You can't make a basis on how good you are compared to joe blow hunter purely based on gearscore. Just because someone has a TON better gear than you doesn't mean that they are setup properly, they could be agi gemming vs ArP gemming, and nowhere near the cap. The other big downside to your argument, is you have no WoL parses to give solid proof to your claims. I can't just walk around and say Arms > Fury for Raid DPS. Even if I myself can outdps better geared fury warriors. The fact remains if your setup properly Fury > Arms by a mile.

swollenpickles
10-10-2010, 04:37 PM
And I have done on that toon all the way through Fester/Rot on 25 man but the pug as a whole couldn't down them. Perhaps Marrowgar was on 10 on that character. Not sure why it wouldn't show on the system.

Generally it doesn't show on the system if people haven't done it. Are you saying that the pug you were in couldn't down fester/rot on 25 but you could have had it not been for them? That makes no sense.

Which toon are you talking about?

This one?
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shattered+Halls&cn=Dirtball

The one that's showing you don't have the Storming the Citadel (25 player) achievement (cos you haven't downed marrowgar) and haven't killed any of the bosses for the The Plagueworks (25 player) achievement? It's also showing that you haven't killed any of the bosses for the The Plagueworks (10 player) achievement either.

The thing is, when you lie in a public forum like this, people are occasionally going to call you out on your BS. It's also likely to make people think twice about taking any of your guide seriously.

kungfugrip
10-10-2010, 05:37 PM
You can DPS the boss and then everyone die before the boss dies and you not get the acheivement but still see your DPS. Crazy how that works. As for marrowgar I said that was 10man in my last post. Either way I'm sorry I didn't proofread all my in-passing comments; I play several toons throughout the week and I didn't realize that would become the point of the thread. Next time I'll double and triple check for nitpickers. Either way just delete this guide I'm sorry I ever sad anything bad about MM I am an inferior being piece of garbage. Save your comments I'm not replying again to this thread but if you feel the need to reply for the other reader's enjoyment/ego boost then go ahead.

iJax
10-10-2010, 06:04 PM
Just an FYI
Dracojax, aggramar server, US, ally, look me up.
I am SV, 4pc T10.5 (legs not gloves) ICC 15K OAL, 9-10K switching targets like DW,SF & Council, 10-12K on boss full-time even running. On AOE trash I have seen 20K.

I have never been out DPSed by an equally equipped MM. I normally am at the top 1-3 of the damage and dps on recount. If I go gloves and make hit cap, I am close to the same but lose dps on running fights...havent figured out why yet...and with 4.0 around the corner...I really don't care to. The only gear I do not have is the RS 264 gear and heroic gear. I have all other gear in game either in the bank or in my bags and I swap when needed for each fight....(PVP trink for BQL, Stam trink for Sindi and council). Dont be fooled by the couple 1 time wins on 25man. I am still the last player to drop and I am the top DPSer in the group. On my one LK 25man kill, I was the Hunter tranqing, dropping frost and calling out targets while the other MM hunter just stood around and flung arrows. I still out DPSed him by 400points.

EJ.com is for math spreadsheet players. They theorize the top dps in each spec wearing BIS gear is about BM=13.4K, SV =14K and MM = 16K. They are not 100% wrong, but they are far from correct. When you actually PLAY THE GAME, things change.

I have had the pleasure to be grouped with MM hunters with near BIS gear. We are talking 2+ pcs of T10.75 and heroic off sets. They tore my DPS up. As well they should with that gear....but that doesn't mean pound for pound an equally geared SV couldn't produce the same amount of DPS. At my mid-level gear I can already break EJ.coms "high DPS" for a SV...what could I do with BIS? Guess we will never know...patch day is coming soon.

swollenpickles
10-10-2010, 06:08 PM
You can DPS the boss and then everyone die before the boss and you not get the acheivement but still see your DPS. Crazy how that works.

Yup, if you don't kill the boss you don't get the achievement.

So your ICC raid experience consists of downing 3 bosses in 25 man once and wiping on Festergut and Rotface. Not sure you can really brag about your leet dps on wipes either. So many variables there. Did the group wipe cos too many people stood in the slime? DPS too worried about recount to switch to adds?

Loganisis
10-12-2010, 01:44 PM
Time to end this thread.

25 H Fester - MM 4k over Survival
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/Festergut/25H/Marksmanship_Hunter/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/Festergut/25H/Survival_Hunter/

25 H Rot - MM 2k over Survival
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/Rotface/25H/Marksmanship_Hunter/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/Rotface/25H/Survival_Hunter/

25 H PP - MM 3k over Survival
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/Professor_Putricide/25H/Marksmanship_Hunter/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/Professor_Putricide/25H/Survival_Hunter/

It's pretty clear. The best hunters in the world are MM and it does 6-10% more top end damage than SV. MM was > SV until 4.0.1. dropped. Is there anything you can give other than anetodtacl evidence with mediocre pugs to disprove this was the case in WotLK 3.3-3.3.5?

Theotherone
10-12-2010, 01:58 PM
I'm really impressed by the Fester results - would have thought the gap a bit close to the Rot results (not that Sur will beat MM in top hands) since with movement it's not a bad Sur Fight - unless of course the MM hunter was the stack point; then it's target dummy time.

But that said, the Sur numbers are nothing to sneeze at either; they're pretty impressive dps numbers, they just pale in comparison to MM.

Loganisis
10-12-2010, 02:00 PM
Are those decent fights to judge hunters about? It seemed like to to me. Almost no movement, some movement, target shifting and movement with malleagble goos going everywhere... it seems like a great wing to compare different specs of any class?

Theotherone
10-12-2010, 02:05 PM
Are those decent fights to judge hunters about? It seemed like to to me. Almost no movement, some movement, target shifting and movement with malleagble goos going everywhere... it seems like a great wing to compare different specs of any class?


Yeah those are fair. I was looking around and what really impressed me was the Prot Pally on H Fester doing 19k dps - I can only shake my head an be amazed at that. How the hell is that possible. The Fire mages kick the crap out of Arcane - real RNG dependent, but 4k difference.

iJax
10-12-2010, 03:05 PM
This is all moot now that the patch is out...but I am sorry to say this proves ZERO....

Everyone read what EJ said about MM, and went MM. The spreadsheet was wrong as per damage. I can prove that by simply telling you to go to EJ.com and look it up. They have a running BIS thread on what the spreadsheet says is the best dps a spec can make...and its not even close to what we see out of any of the three Hunter specs.

Every SV hunter I know pushed MORE DPS then a MM with the same gear...The only time you MM guys post higher DPS numbers is when your gear is higher.

When all things are equal...the dps will be about equal too...talking less then 1K Overall. Some fights the SV is higher, some the MM. It was a big fat lie saying MM pushed way more DPS...complete lie.

The reason 99% of all the top DPSing Hunters were MM is because they were used to playing as a MM and their DPS dropped due to inexperience in the SV rotation. Or the put up with the lower DPS at first then started seeing a growth in the dps, then gained new gear and saw an increase in dps...which was due to the new gear...not the spec.

I swapped to MM after playing SV for years...guess what my DPS dropped like a freaking rock...because I was inexperienced in the rotation and movement of a MM. If I would have stuck with it, my DPS would have climbed to about the same as a SV.

Maybe some of you need to use your head and stop worshiping at the feet of guys who don't even play the game...

Theotherone
10-12-2010, 03:50 PM
The logs must be wrong. Kind of like the old joke "you gonna believe me, or your lying eyes?"

Tinytankz
10-12-2010, 03:56 PM
I just quit listening when he didnt say I had Arp hardcap when he tried MM

Kazeyonoma
10-12-2010, 04:11 PM
Has the imminent patch/expansion driven people crazy? thread closed.