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jdc1972
09-27-2010, 09:20 PM
Had a few bad wipes on Sjonnir the Ironshaper (http://www.wowwiki.com/Sjonnir_the_Ironshaper) in heroic Halls of stone. Everyone quit on me. The healer kept getting aggro and I couldnt pick up the adds fast enough. I have read elsewhere that the dps should be picking up the adds to keep them off the healer. Whats your opinion? I am using the 969 rotation when I can. My confidence is a little shaken and I havent been back for a couple of days. Also watching the tankspot videos I am seeing a very wide camera angle where you can see the whole room and some health? bars center screen. Are those add ons and if so what are they called? I am pure tank spec and that is all I want to do. I just want to do it well. Big thanks in advance. Here is my gear-http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Deathwing&cn=Osea

uglybbtoo
09-27-2010, 09:59 PM
The adds only have a limited time agro table then it resets you cant really tank them.

Tank him right at the base of the forge so the healer can stand along way back make sure you hold agro on him cause the dps will be burning like crazy and when adds look like they are getting close to healer use RD on healer and they will start walking back towards you.

Even if the healer got killed you should be able to survive unhealed in your current gear he doesnt hit that hard.

There are only usually 2 reasons for wipe :

1.) You have a low dps group as he gets low he decices to explode the adds they get frozen for a few seconds and then explode. If healer and or dps don't move away from them when he does this they will die its like the ghouls in TOC 5 man. High dps groups will kill him before he can explode the statues.

2.) You lose agro on him and he kills the dps and or healer. This is your main priority keep agro on him so the dps can unload.

So which 1 of the 2 ways occurred because you are kind of misinterreptting what went wrong?

xenogriff
09-28-2010, 01:39 AM
i can tell you straight out that your spec has problems

you have no points in touched by the light - thats your major threat loss. pallies still need SP to do threat but we no longer need to gear for it, that talent right there is where we get our sp and you don't have it.....

regarding your other talent choices - u didnt take any points in improved judgement - that itself indicates that you do not use the 969 rotation which u said u do. you need at least 1 point in this to pull off the rotation

i'm not sure why you took imp blessing of might - you wont be using it while tanking - better to put points into heart of the crusader which improves ur dps which improves your threat

i would suggest going 3/3 crusade rather than putting points into benediction, you should be able to get enough mana back from SA and BoSanc + divine plea

i hope that you are using BoSanc over might - just saying this coz of the talent choice of imp BoM

i woudl recommend changing glyph of shield of righteoness for glyph of vengeance as you need to be expertise capped (26)

given that you have seal of command, i hope you are switching it out for seal of vengeance on boss fights as SoC is mainly for trash pulls. SoV is still our best threat generator on bosses

another thing - eye for an eye - it only deals damage when you get crit and outside of spell crits which mobs cannot do, if you are getting crit by melee, you need to take a look at your gearing/gemming as well - but either way, this talent does nothing for you

also, i would recommend moving points out of divinity and putting it into judgements of the just - that gives you way more damage reduction compared to the negligible healing increase

jdc1972
09-28-2010, 06:42 AM
I can keep him on me pretty easily. Very rarely I will lose some aggro to the dps but I can always keep him hitting me. The healer never died because of the boss it was always the adds. I would taunt some adds from the healer and another group would show up and jump on him. Rinse repeat...the boss would stay with me through the entire fight but it seems like the adds were everywhere. If I were in a lower dps group should I kite the boss around so I can pick up the adds? The boss has an aoe damage thing so I want to keep him in one spot in case it hits the fan. Thanks

jdc1972
09-28-2010, 06:44 AM
Thanks for the advice. I will make some tweaks to my set up and see if it helps. New to tanking and paladin class

Martie
09-28-2010, 07:10 AM
If you are using 969, consecration has about 89% uptime. The room has a natural bottleneck, and you should use it.

Most of the adds aren't that dangerous to begin with anyway, but the bottleneck is small enough for you to tag all of them with consecration. It's possible, by the way, that you wiped because people didn't move from his nasty AoE.
Here's a good place to stand for the first few times - dots show approximate consecration location.


|Entrance|
\ healer/
\ /
| ... |
|.....|
|.you.|
/.Boss\
/ dps \
/ \
Rest of
the room.


This way, any add that wants to get to the healer has to pass through the dps and your consecration, making it likely they'll stop going after the healer. The healer can stand outside of the boss AoE, the dps have somewhere to move. Ranged can stand with the healers.

jdc1972
09-28-2010, 03:06 PM
That set up looks good to me I will try it next go around in the halls. Thank you very much for the advice

kopcap
09-28-2010, 05:34 PM
No one should have a problem with those adds, esp a pally. If you are having difficulties, its because the fight is dragging for way too long and the dps sucks. I may intercept and taunt one or two but personally I never bothered with those adds and never wiped.

uglybbtoo
09-28-2010, 06:31 PM
I can keep him on me pretty easily. Very rarely I will lose some aggro to the dps but I can always keep him hitting me. The healer never died because of the boss it was always the adds. I would taunt some adds from the healer and another group would show up and jump on him. Rinse repeat...the boss would stay with me through the entire fight but it seems like the adds were everywhere. If I were in a lower dps group should I kite the boss around so I can pick up the adds? The boss has an aoe damage thing so I want to keep him in one spot in case it hits the fan. Thanks

If you had anymore than 4 up your dps peeps were terrible :=)

You didn't have recount running?

jdc1972
09-28-2010, 07:43 PM
I checked the recount and the dps was pretty bad. Top dps was a rogue with 2832. Me as the tank was second with 1344. hunter had 1245,ret pally had 1233, druid healer had 12. This was on heroic mode too. So maybe a combination of many things led to the wipes?

Martie
09-28-2010, 08:17 PM
No one should have a problem with those adds, esp a pally. If you are having difficulties, its because the fight is dragging for way too long and the dps sucks. I may intercept and taunt one or two but personally I never bothered with those adds and never wiped.

Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions - the fight can be brutal if you don't overgear it. The AoE from the boss can hit quite hard - if a healer or too many dps stand in it, it can cause deaths. The adds are managable, but it's not a cakewalk either - some dps should be put on it, but definetely not all. Bad dps will make the fight a lot harder (and boy, do I see a lot of bad dps these days.)

kopcap
09-29-2010, 03:03 AM
Sure this may be a difficult encounter for a brand new 80's party but what are the chances of running into a set up like that in HoS in the current state of the game? Which is kinda illustrating the point why OP has posted this in the first place, just some serious bl on his part :)

Even then I'd bet that the party was not "brand new" but just "lazy".

MellvarTank
09-29-2010, 07:39 AM
Can't paladins taunt up to 3 enemies off of a target?

Theotherone
09-29-2010, 07:48 AM
I checked the recount and the dps was pretty bad. Top dps was a rogue with 2832. Me as the tank was second with 1344. hunter had 1245,ret pally had 1233, druid healer had 12. This was on heroic mode too. So maybe a combination of many things led to the wipes?

You're in a heroic 5 man, that is not terrible dps, that's pretty close, if not a little above, gear appropriate. I remember running this in blues and Brann was the royal pain of a fight.

Griff
09-30-2010, 10:35 AM
You're in a heroic 5 man, that is not terrible dps, that's pretty close, if not a little above, gear appropriate. I remember running this in blues and Brann was the royal pain of a fight.

Its not good. Even in blues, a hunter should be doing more than 1200 and they should definitely be outperforming the tank on dps, as he's not overgeared either. This fight rarely lasts for more than 17-20 seconds when I run it.

If the adds are a problem, assign one plate dps to deal with them while the other two burn the boss.

Theotherone
09-30-2010, 11:49 AM
Its not good. Even in blues, a hunter should be doing more than 1200 and they should definitely be outperforming the tank on dps, as he's not overgeared either. This fight rarely lasts for more than 17-20 seconds when I run it.

If the adds are a problem, assign one plate dps to deal with them while the other two burn the boss.

I really don't agree, I think you have to put it into the context of how the group was geared and it's normal for what I suspect is the gear level; the OP has a 2k wow-heroes score which equates to a reccomended raid of OS or Naxx 25 or EoE 10. Sure the fight takes 17-20 sec now, but back in the day, H HoS was a pain; have you leveled an alt recently and run some of these instances in level appropriate gear with others in level appropriate gear? We're talking Naxx 10/25 numbers - it's been a while but as I recall 2.5k dps in Naxx gear was good. That's what dps looks/looked like at that level - not the ICC 25 geared numbers we see now. The fight actually has to be managed and not zerged.

Martie has the right set up for this fight. Protect your healer and you should be fine.

kopcap
09-30-2010, 06:48 PM
Griff, my char was tanking H HoS in blues and greens without a single BoA item less than a month ago. I wiped a lot of times on the final boss in UK and on the spiders in OK. But this fight is not hard, really. Brann's part is way more challenging for an undergeared party. And given he current prices of BS, mats and enchants as well as accessibility of emblems I think its inappropriate to compare gears of "then" and "now".

Mačl
09-30-2010, 07:26 PM
I remember how that fight went when WotLK was the new hotness.
You could temporarily distract the adds as a tank. At best. Just long enough to either
-burn down the boss quickly(unlikely with two sub 1.5k dps, there was also boss aoe to deal with)
-kill the adds, cc the adds

This sounds like complete failure to do anything of use by the hunter and the ret paladin. Switching a rogue to add duty is not going to do you any good.

Fail DPS. End of.

People have forgotten how the encounters worked. Totalbuiscit is right. Every encounter in WotLK could quickly be outgeared. Even Loken became a joke once you were in all purplz. Before, you had to run out of his AoE and return so you wouldn't be to far away when he turned on his "you are too far away" aura. People forgot. Or to be more precise: DPS forgot.

Theotherone
10-01-2010, 06:41 AM
People have forgotten how the encounters worked. Totalbuiscit is right. Every encounter in WotLK could quickly be outgeared. Even Loken became a joke once you were in all purplz. Before, you had to run out of his AoE and return so you wouldn't be to far away when he turned on his "you are too far away" aura. People forgot. Or to be more precise: DPS forgot.

Yeah, but running this with an Unholy DK tank with the talented AMS to protect the party, was really cool. Other then that, the fight was a wipefest at times.

Griff
10-01-2010, 07:38 AM
I'm not saying its not a challenging encounter at gear level but according to the poster, there were two dps who were coming in on the charts below the tank. If they are all at similar gear levels (the tank has a BOA weapon so they can't be too much lower in a heroic) they were underperforming. Slow DPS, particularly on that encounter, is going to make it harder.

Lukahna
10-02-2010, 12:34 AM
You've gotten some good advice, here, so I'll talk psychology.


My confidence is a little shaken and I havent been back for a couple of days.Don't sweat it. Wipes and bad groups are an opportunity to improve--even when you do everything right, you learn some new tricks to protect the fail groups from themselves. Up to a certain level of ineptness or attitude (individual tolerance levels may vary :p), I actually enjoy the odd fail group.

Above all, PuG tanks need to grow a thick skin--people are quick to blame the tank for anything from party wipes to global warming. That being said, once in a while it will be your fault, and that's when you especially need to be able to shake it off, admit your mistake, corpse run, and avoid the mistake that wiped you, lest you become an elitist jerk, or, worse yet, just a jerk. But I bet you'll stay on the path of Light.

jdc1972
10-04-2010, 11:04 AM
Lol you are right. I have jumped back in and have been doing well in my pugs. Everyone runs into a wall sometimes. I just needed to climb over it and face the next wall. Another thing that has helped a lot is I am telling the group to slow down and let me get set before dps. I still run into the occasional player who has a 5500k gs and jumps in before I establish good control, but nothing I cant overcome so far. Big thanks to everyone for the advice and be sure I will be back when I need more. Cheers!