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fony
09-23-2010, 09:34 AM
I'm going to just put this right here... and walk away slowly... ;)

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Spiritus
09-23-2010, 10:04 AM
Pretty much my experience. I wanted to like it so much, it just felt so... unfinished; and not in a "beta" way. In a "this is our vision" way. In a Phantom Menace way.

I think that's my final descriptor. FFXIV is the Phantom Menace of MMORPGs. Ya want it to be so good & you want to love it, but the people who created it didn't know how much you cared about having a fluid & robust experience. They thought you wanted a game that said "FF" on it.

Bowen
09-23-2010, 10:38 AM
Been watching the yogscast and there are loads of cutscenes every 5mins of actual play.

Darksend
09-23-2010, 10:57 AM
I have never once noticed the terrain copy-paste, how do you even see something like that, I never remember what the terrain looked like 30 seconds ago. Also, gridaina SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! worst of the 3 starting towns and also a good 30-45 minute walk to get from there to either of the other 2 cities. Uldha by comparison has the quickest of the level 1 storylines (totally optional btw all they give you is some starter gold). Basically, as was in 11, the story is the main focus of the game. The other thing is, I am pretty sure (As evidenced by the UI) SE does not care about its PC gamers, they know the core of their audience is the PS3 players. Until that is released I doubt we will see many improvements.

When was this actually recorded btw, 3-4 weeks ago? Longer?

Krenian
09-23-2010, 11:08 AM
Wow...I honestly did not notice the copy pasta...holy crap, now that you put it in perspective..that's ridiculous. o.O Wow...I mean at first I was laughing cause stuff Fony said is true, some of the things are pretty brutal but...Holy crap, the copy pasta is so wrong.

Am shocked. If I would have even remotely noticed this, I may have held off on the game. But I kinda went and bought the game either way online and can't really cancel anymore. Gah, damn you Fony and being two weeks late with this! x.x

someidiot
09-23-2010, 11:19 AM
hahaha
Game does look amazing.
Personally i found this report very helpful. Also almost couldnt stop laughing.

Demonwar
09-23-2010, 12:09 PM
Looks pretty, but looks like a game I would never play. I wonder really what the FF crowd will now think of wow's copy-pasta compared to their, if it's true that's their main complaint. Adding that sort of travel time sink to level1 quests is crazy and really just smacks of devs being either lazy or very nasty.

Krenian
09-23-2010, 12:12 PM
Looks pretty, but looks like a game I would never play. I wonder really what the FF crowd will now think of wow's copy-pasta compared to their, if it's true that's their main complaint. Adding that sort of travel time sink to level1 quests is crazy and really just smacks of devs being either lazy or very nasty.

^^<<--Part of the FF crowd.

I'm not amused. Not in the least. That is the least polished game I have ever seen and apparently the release really does not have anything different right now. Which means this is the kind of game we're waiting for right now.

I'm at a point where I'm just going to give up on SE ever making Final Fantasy good on an MMO platform. Period.

Darksend
09-23-2010, 01:52 PM
How the hell does something you never even noticed bother you? I dont get it? I am perfectly fine with all the copy pasting

Supermassive
09-23-2010, 02:36 PM
Right now, there's some asian game designer putting his hand over his face saying, "If only we put jump in the game, maybe this would all be different."

Pers3us
09-23-2010, 02:48 PM
How the hell does something you never even noticed bother you? I dont get it? I am perfectly fine with all the copy pasting

Eventually, it would have been noticed. The fact that someone pointed it out means that it's going to be noticed every time now.

xtremehacker
09-23-2010, 03:00 PM
I love's PASTA.. But even I change up the sause every once in a while !!

Rennadrel
09-23-2010, 04:58 PM
I am glad I didn't even bother with the beta, seems like a waste of time to pay for this game as well. Even Blizzard has been good about changing some of their terrain designs around in some ways over the years.

Scottpoet
09-23-2010, 05:27 PM
FFXIV .... 11 copy and pastes + the ladybug massacre that was pretty ridiculous. Not playing it.

Viertel
09-23-2010, 08:11 PM
I am glad I didn't even bother with the beta, seems like a waste of time to pay for this game as well. Even Blizzard has been good about changing some of their terrain designs around in some ways over the years.

SE is violently opposed to changing anything in their game unless absolutely necessary (i.e. bad publicity). The Japanese developers view their games as more of a form of art that sells well, and altering anything after a finished product doesn't jive with them. Our controls are absolutely horrid, but we have fluid animations! Combat is stale and boring, but at least it looks cool!

It's why they'll never do well in an MMO environment.

Darksend
09-23-2010, 08:54 PM
first actual gripe with the game, I am a 15 glad, 5 cook. The food I make, either does nothing, or food is just broken on updating your character sheet. But either way you cannot tell what buffs the foods are giving you.

yes I have the CE early access

Rennadrel
09-23-2010, 09:03 PM
SE is violently opposed to changing anything in their game unless absolutely necessary (i.e. bad publicity). The Japanese developers view their games as more of a form of art that sells well, and altering anything after a finished product doesn't jive with them. Our controls are absolutely horrid, but we have fluid animations! Combat is stale and boring, but at least it looks cool!

It's why they'll never do well in an MMO environment.

Well it's unfortunate for them then that reviews suggesting that the game is horribly incomplete (something Square Enix is not known for) and has so many issues that they have set their own platform up for failure. Heck even ArenaNet did a better job with a free MMO like Guild Wars (the sequel is looking pretty sweet too btw) and they didn't have near the budget that SE did for FF14. This seems like a cut and paste project with pretty images but poor level and combat design, the graphics don't even look that impressive to be honest.

Spiritus
09-23-2010, 09:19 PM
This just in:

Vindictus > FFXIV

Seriously. Fony wasn't just talking it up. It is a really visceral 3d dungeon crawler that is intuitive and innovative in some respects.

All in all, fun to play. So if FFXIV brought the disappoint down on you, go check it out.

Really just posted this as an excuse to plug Vindictus...

...and to curse SE for wasting a few hours of my life on their beta...

...and puppies are awesome.

Vmpwraith
09-23-2010, 09:34 PM
I really wanted to love FFivX but.... having played the beta for a week or so off and on trying hard to get past its failings I think I'll wait a year and see how it develops.

Good
Loverly Graphics - nice textures and I dont mind the cutsense they draw you into the story.

Interesting story line... even with the obvious spelling and grammar mistakes.

Poor
Controls ... definitely a controller game but even running a controller it's "Sluggish". No jump and little environmental interaction. You cant jump on anything or jump off anything which makes some areas very linear to transverse and makes the beautiful environment stale and dead feeling.

Guildleve's / Quests... my gripe is this ... You pickup the quests in town then need to run a long long way to Activate the quests then run further to do the quests. Varying from the quest to explore or kill something not in the quest is an insta fail. Wheres the scope for exploration and just killing stuff. Even the zones have far to little to actually kill or interact with.

Skills .... not enough variety in combat at low levels. Even if you take the time to level you have the one standard basic attack for too long.. Boring. They give you something called TP to unleash massive attacking moves but nothing to use it with for 10 levels.

Again I wanted to love it, FFXI was my first mmorgp and I wanted this to be great but its not. I'll cross my fingers and wait to see what happens with it.

Kanzer
09-24-2010, 12:20 AM
Skills .... not enough variety in combat at low levels. Even if you take the time to level you have the one standard basic attack for too long.. Boring. They give you something called TP to unleash massive attacking moves but nothing to use it with for 10 levels.



Huh? I'm rank 10 Marauder and I have several different TP moves already. Leveled Lancer to 4 as well to get ferocity.

The only gripe I have thus far is lack of weapon/armor vendors, I managed to find a bronze labrys for sale on a vendor and picked it up, which is pretty sweet, but thats about it.

Still enjoying the game overall.

Knails
09-24-2010, 04:01 AM
I'd have to agree with Fony on this one. I played FFXI for 2 1/2 years and when I heard about XIV I was absolutely psyched reading everything I could about it to get myself fully immersed in a once more great game & sadly I was disappoint, badly. From playing the open beta I felt almost no immersion, I had no enjoyment, and the fact that their were very little hot keys to access your inventory, new gear to upgrade & the map is overall piss poor was just too much to handle. Not to mention, not having a clue of where the hell to go at any point in time. I'd think by now SE may have taken a small hint and given some sort of " ! " over an NPC's head or some sort of aura so we know who to speak too, sadly not.

As others have stated above; I truly wanted to love this game, but it just fell short in every way I had hoped it wouldn't. SE just won't learn how to do things properly. On the light side it keeps me more psyched for Cataclsym & from the way the Heroic 5s are turning it, it looks like it will be fun again!

Viertel
09-24-2010, 08:05 AM
Really, the biggest problem with the game is the UI. I'm so, so, so damn tired of seeing list menus. The nest you have to go through in FFXIV just to do a simple command, even to interact with an NPC, is utterly ridiculous. I really don't understand the logic in keeping the archaic Dragon Quest model for inputting commands (let's be honest, Square exists in SE in name only now). If you see a door, open the menu, and hit Interact; I'm seriously surprised there isn't a Stairs command. It's outdated, slow, and clunky. In this day and age, I can't believe a developer -- who is developing this on a platform with drag and drop functionality -- thought that have to go through a poorly thought out nest of list commands was ideal.

They've been too damn worried about the graphical looks since the PS2 era and have completely forgotten about gameplay. And frankly I'm not impressed with the "no auto attack" system at all. I tried that in AoC and it just made the game even more boring. To me, if you have to change it so that your every attack has to be manually inputted, you're not designing a good combat system. Oh I'm sure there will be people that think this is a great idea and play the game for that reason alone, but these are probably the same people that thought Trial of the Crusader was pefect simply because there was no trash.

As slow as they are at making any changes to the game at all, I wouldn't count on the game having any more than absolute barebones to be somewhat successful when the PS3 launches.

PC users truly are just paying to play the beta for the PS3.

Pug
09-24-2010, 08:08 AM
Looks like this game really sucks. No action at all, looks more like a movie where... nothing happens but a guy/girl running around >.> The graphics are cool, is that really worth it? I wouldn't play it.

Viertel
09-24-2010, 08:12 AM
Oh wow, hahaha. I just saw the reactions on the ZAM boards in regards to this video.

They pretty much boil down to either

A) Agreeing

B) Disagreeing by attacking your opinion on the game, trying to state that every game uses the the same blatant CPing (we're not talking doodads here, but entire *chunks* of terrain), or downplaying just how utterly boring the game is.

And yeah I agree: if you have a 3rd party to write a wrapper for your beta because they know how you work and that they'll have to eventually spend time to make the game passable by just fixing the issues themselves, you've failed.

Predakhan
09-24-2010, 09:10 AM
Well it's unfortunate for them then that reviews suggesting that the game is horribly incomplete (something Square Enix is not known for) and has so many issues that they have set their own platform up for failure. Heck even ArenaNet did a better job with a free MMO like Guild Wars (the sequel is looking pretty sweet too btw) and they didn't have near the budget that SE did for FF14. This seems like a cut and paste project with pretty images but poor level and combat design, the graphics don't even look that impressive to be honest.

Totally agree with what has already been said. I also am looking forward to GW2 as another game to play on off raid nights.

Tuurd
09-24-2010, 09:48 AM
The deal was sealed for me when I couldnt bind the arrow keys for movement. I mean seriously, wtf? 2-4-6-8 on numpad is your forced alt binding for movement over wasd?

The interface is horrible and not at all intuitive and that alone made me decide to uninstall the beta and not purchase. So Im oldschool and use an oldschool gamepad...that doesnt change the fact that there are now many gamepads on the market that default their movement keys to arrow keys and wasd. What the hell is SE's problem with maintaining a status quo as simple as that?

Yeah its nerdrage, but with cata here soon, Black Ops right around the corner, and (Hopefully) D3 within the next 6-12 months, I see no reason to buy a game and pay a subscription for something that pissed me off in less time than it took to create my character.

Nez
09-24-2010, 09:52 AM
Thanks for saving me some bucks! I was tempted to buy this to try it out just because of the franchise and nostalgia. ><

Seriously SE, time to catch up. Pretty views will not overcome tedious game play and a horrible interface that makes playing a chore.

Kahmal
09-24-2010, 06:03 PM
Damn brutal....but you can kind of expect this from a development team that simply laughs when you ask them a question. "Like why can't I jump?" It makes you wonder if they were forced to release the game too early, or if they just didn't feel all that little stuff was important enough, like typing errors....very unprofessional.

The one thing I can say in the games defense in terms of it being user friendly especially to new people is that according to my friend who played FF11, it was a pretty damn hardcore game. He said that there were no noobs that were max level, if you maxed out you were automatically good cause of all the hell you had to go through to get there.

You'd expect them to adopt a lot of WoW's user friendliness that made it so great but I guess there just too arrogant.

Krenian
09-24-2010, 06:13 PM
It's right now sitting on my desk and I'm looking at the game and pondering...Problem is that I'm a Fanboy. I hate it but I am. So I think I may play for 30 days and just reassess.

Krenian
09-24-2010, 08:29 PM
You know what's frustrating about this?

Is that SE has banned any sites from putting up mirrors to download and insists on using their shitty ass patch downloader that takes forever. it's total BS. I'm doing the updates now and I have to go around other ways cause otherwise I download at 9kb/s.

Really SE? Is that how you're going to do everything?

Viertel
09-24-2010, 08:57 PM
The one thing I can say in the games defense in terms of it being user friendly especially to new people is that according to my friend who played FF11, it was a pretty damn hardcore game. He said that there were no noobs that were max level, if you maxed out you were automatically good cause of all the hell you had to go through to get there.

Actually, from a former endgame FFXI player, your friend is incorrect. There is the exact same ratio of terrible players versus great players (with as many % of passable in between). The problem is, everyone is forced to work in a group, so terrible or not you have to deal with people (as you can't just drop group and go do your thing). Plus, the fact that all nationalities are forced onto the same servers, you're merely given the illusion that those that bored themselves to tears and grinded mobs for the 50+ hours it took to get to endgame, so that they could go on a purely horizontal progression path with bosses that you either kited or tank'n'spanked to death.

In reality, FFXI is easier than WoW. Many people will contest this fact that due to the "long time to level cap" (which is false; FFXI actually ends up requiring vastly less time to level) and call it a hardcore game simply because you're constantly camping monsters with ridiculous respawn timers. It's a glorified, poorly made EQ clone, but not hardcore at all.

Carighan
09-25-2010, 02:08 AM
Looks pretty, but looks like a game I would never play.

That quote nails a surprising amount of "current" games from my perspective. ;)

Ultimus
09-25-2010, 12:42 PM
Well I've played most of the "FF" console series up to X(10) except IX...and really enjoyed them. However, I never could get the urge to play online FF XI, and now this one, wow.....Fony has way more patience then I do that's for sure lol After watching his toon in combat miss and his target evade several times would've done it in for me, not to mention the UI and long length of time it takes to travel to your "noob" quest area or whatever. I guess the old console games was "Final" for my part, LOL

Oh btw, the insane Uberzomg Ladybug at the end of the video that kicked everyone's ass was priceless lol.

Krenian
09-25-2010, 03:25 PM
Actually, yeah the mob did evade some of his shots but this game actually takes in consideration the position you are attacking from: Mobs will be able to dodge and avoid you more if you are in front, Less so in the sides, and far less from behind. You also crit more often from behind.

You wanna use positioning to do the most damage in this game. Otherwise you'll whiff like Fony did. Trust me, having tested the game myself, I found that out and went eesh. It's a lil too high up there percentage wise on the miss/avoid/dodge scale when facing a mob.

Kanzer
09-25-2010, 04:38 PM
Actually, yeah the mob did evade some of his shots but this game actually takes in consideration the position you are attacking from: Mobs will be able to dodge and avoid you more if you are in front, Less so in the sides, and far less from behind. You also crit more often from behind.

You wanna use positioning to do the most damage in this game. Otherwise you'll whiff like Fony did. Trust me, having tested the game myself, I found that out and went eesh. It's a lil too high up there percentage wise on the miss/avoid/dodge scale when facing a mob.

Sucks and is stupid though as a Marauder where you actually get a bonus for standing still...

I tried really hard to find the silver lining in this game, as many people know. I'm a FF fanboy FF2 was the first RPG I ever played and I've been an avid fan of the genre and that particular title since. FF12 and 13 hurt my hope for the company, but FF 14 so far has almost completely shattered it. I feel so pissed off right now after grinding my way to rank 14 marauder and ultimately just kinda betrayed by a company I used to love.

There is absolutely no depth to this game, You get a main quest where you get a few cut scenes and some gil at the end, and then need to grind out 10 more levels to get to the next part.

Leves have an insanely long cooldown yet have no depth themselves at all. I could understand putting such a cooldown on these things if they actually had story, depth, took time to complete, but there's none of that. On average they have taken me 2 min to complete, and all it is is killing some shit or collecting some items by..killing some shit.

In a last effort to find something to look forward to, I literally explored every inch of Limsa Lominsa island to just see if there was anything different. And there is absolutely NOTHING different except for different variants of mobs youve already seen, and SOME new mobs, but nothing awesome..I think the coolest thing I saw was a kobold..other than that just a bunch of crabs, birds, mice, and jellyfish...and some beetles, can't forget them.

So after touring the whole island, I finally just said "screw this" and logged out, and I really have no desire or intention to log back in. Hurry and rescue me from my boredom Cataclysm...

Kurgen
09-25-2010, 08:04 PM
Its strange to do a recording when you don't have any clue on the interface. So coming in ignorant of the product isnt a proper way to do. Its definitely a game where doing some homework helps, there is no hand holding where you need to converse with NPC's and learn the land the old fashion way. Listening to the the doom and gloomers on forums sure doesnt help, this is definitely the worst release of so much BAD information and the echoing of it across all the message boards. Like the Fatigue system bruhahaha.

Its definitely a slower style game and requires some reading on what you should do. There isn't Symbols over people and quests do have locations marked on the journal map. The first quest is to teach the basics of combat and UI. Hardware mouse is in retail, UI is responsive.

Viertel
09-25-2010, 09:38 PM
Its strange to do a recording when you don't have any clue on the interface. So coming in ignorant of the product isnt a proper way to do. Its definitely a game where doing some homework helps, there is no hand holding where you need to converse with NPC's and learn the land the old fashion way. Listening to the the doom and gloomers on forums sure doesnt help, this is definitely the worst release of so much BAD information and the echoing of it across all the message boards. Like the Fatigue system bruhahaha.

Its definitely a slower style game and requires some reading on what you should do. There isn't Symbols over people and quests do have locations marked on the journal map. The first quest is to teach the basics of combat and UI. Hardware mouse is in retail, UI is responsive.

Yeah no, thanks for playing. A turd wrapped in pink tinfoil is still a turd. FFXIV will go down as the worst launching MMO of the entire genre -- beating out Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. That requires a tremendous amount of fail in order to pull that off.

I haven't single a single piece of "wrong information". You can parade around, sticking your fingers in your ears, and ignoring every single thing wrong with the game like the rest of the fanboys. Or, you could actually wake up, and realize this is the biggest waste of purchase we've seen in the gaming history in a long, long time.

The fatigue system is terrible. Period. End of story. Trying to defend it causes you to lose any shred of credibility in an argument.


So after touring the whole island, I finally just said "screw this" and logged out, and I really have no desire or intention to log back in. Hurry and rescue me from my boredom Cataclysm...

That's the funny thing. I've seen die-hard anti-WoW people on FFXI/FFXIV forums, and even *they're* admitting they might as well purchase Cataclysm when it comes out because there's no point in sticking with FFXIV. There's just too much wrong with it:

1) Fatigue system. It's horrendous, does nothing but punish people, and it doesn't level the playing field at all. Only SE fanboys will swallow that pathetic PR spin they tried to put on it via saying "But it helps casual players!"

2) Crashing when game loses focus. I've seen only two games do this since Windows 98 was released. Both are MMOs made by Square-Enix.

3) Horrendous UI design. Seriously? Overly complicated nesting list menus in 2010? I guess nothing says 'cutting edge' like a UI that isn't much different than Dragon Quest, and that was released in 1986. "Select Interact from the Main Menu to open a chest." Get real.

4) Terrible monster flow. Nothing says a SE MMO like random high level mobs placed around leveling areas for no reason whatsoever. Fanboys will call it "adventure" and "excitement". Realists will call it what it truly its: piss poor mob placement.

5) Guildleves. Quests -- let's be serious and call them what they actually are. (Why FF MMOs need to have a unique term for damn near every single convention is beyond me, when their renditions are always worse than then originals). COmpletely unoriginal, boring, and stale. The rewards are moronic as well. Nothing like randomly generating whether you're going to get some gear, crafting components, or just plain money for completing them. Oh, they give bonus EXP from monsters that are spawned while doing the quests? No problem, we'll just limit them to 8 every 36 hours.

6) Gathering professions. Ahh yes, just what every crafter likes to see. A boring and overly time consuming Hot'n'Cold game thrown onto every gathering profession, designed to waste as much time as possible. Let's also cause you to get lessened returns on gathering when going for as little as half an hour (nothing like a gathering fatigue system as well, right?).

7) Payment methods. I've never, ever, seen a company that makes you go through such ridiculous methods just to give them your money. Half of the complaints are that they're not accepting credit cards, or their round-about method of using Paypal, or requiring people to resort to ClickToBuy accounts.

8) Copypasta. If you can't realize the difference between what every other developer has done, and what SE is guilty of in FFXIV, don't even try to argue this point. Other developers have a palette of doodads that they'll manipulate (i.e. recolor, resize, etc.) and use to give foilage and life to a zone. SE isn't guilty of this: they're guilty of taking the mouse, drawing a box over a sizeable portion of the zone, and copy pasting that without altering a damn thing. We're not talking about caves, or building, or trees, or foilage -- we're talking terrain. Show me proof, tangible proof, that another MMO developer does this and to the degree that SE has.

9) Tanaka. A moron if I've ever seen one. Let's lash out at 'foreigners' for speculating on a system (nevermind that they were correct), instead of just coming clean and stating what the fatigue system was. Let's also try to disguise all of these game decisions by saying "they're our methods of combating RMT". Yeah. Right.

Scottpoet
09-25-2010, 09:45 PM
Is the MMO genre still such an uncharted territory that we have a big name forced on such a horrible game?
/facepalm

Krenian
09-25-2010, 10:48 PM
Obviously someone doesn't understand the Fatigue system right now.

If anyone wants to understand why the Fatigue system is in the game and is in place, which when I saw this, clarified a lot and made me less hesitant about it, watch the following video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abE09-tqhoM

Very interesting video. And yes, he makes logical arguments which are sound.

So are you going to call me out and say I lost every shred of credibility after linking you a rather decent documentary about the Fatigue System? Go ahead. Cause I just showed you why it's in place due to SE's philosophy. (Many won't agree with it, some will. That, you can choose to be. But to state that arguing for/against the system makes you pretty much a loser in either way is not the way to go.)

Darksend
09-25-2010, 11:08 PM
1) Fatigue system. It's horrendous, does nothing but punish people, and it doesn't level the playing field at all. Only SE fanboys will swallow that pathetic PR spin they tried to put on it via saying "But it helps casual players!"

2) Crashing when game loses focus. I've seen only two games do this since Windows 98 was released. Both are MMOs made by Square-Enix.

3) Horrendous UI design. Seriously? Overly complicated nesting list menus in 2010? I guess nothing says 'cutting edge' like a UI that isn't much different than Dragon Quest, and that was released in 1986. "Select Interact from the Main Menu to open a chest." Get real.

4) Terrible monster flow. Nothing says a SE MMO like random high level mobs placed around leveling areas for no reason whatsoever. Fanboys will call it "adventure" and "excitement". Realists will call it what it truly its: piss poor mob placement.

5) Guildleves. Quests -- let's be serious and call them what they actually are. (Why FF MMOs need to have a unique term for damn near every single convention is beyond me, when their renditions are always worse than then originals). COmpletely unoriginal, boring, and stale. The rewards are moronic as well. Nothing like randomly generating whether you're going to get some gear, crafting components, or just plain money for completing them. Oh, they give bonus EXP from monsters that are spawned while doing the quests? No problem, we'll just limit them to 8 every 36 hours.

6) Gathering professions. Ahh yes, just what every crafter likes to see. A boring and overly time consuming Hot'n'Cold game thrown onto every gathering profession, designed to waste as much time as possible. Let's also cause you to get lessened returns on gathering when going for as little as half an hour (nothing like a gathering fatigue system as well, right?).

7) Payment methods. I've never, ever, seen a company that makes you go through such ridiculous methods just to give them your money. Half of the complaints are that they're not accepting credit cards, or their round-about method of using Paypal, or requiring people to resort to ClickToBuy accounts.

8) Copypasta. If you can't realize the difference between what every other developer has done, and what SE is guilty of in FFXIV, don't even try to argue this point. Other developers have a palette of doodads that they'll manipulate (i.e. recolor, resize, etc.) and use to give foilage and life to a zone. SE isn't guilty of this: they're guilty of taking the mouse, drawing a box over a sizeable portion of the zone, and copy pasting that without altering a damn thing. We're not talking about caves, or building, or trees, or foilage -- we're talking terrain. Show me proof, tangible proof, that another MMO developer does this and to the degree that SE has.

9) Tanaka. A moron if I've ever seen one. Let's lash out at 'foreigners' for speculating on a system (nevermind that they were correct), instead of just coming clean and stating what the fatigue system was. Let's also try to disguise all of these game decisions by saying "they're our methods of combating RMT". Yeah. Right.

NOTHING you said in the above quote was wrong, and in fact 4 is so beyond accurate it makes me cry while leveling when I kill a mob that barely gave me any exp and it respawns as something that should be a mob 3 zones from now (which would be fine but the party SP system is terribly broken). But, ALSO NOTHING you said makes it A BAD GAME. A technically lacking game yes, but I have been playing almost non-stop since Wednesday and I have loved every minute of it.

2) only happens when you play in full screen, windowed mode FTW

3) the menu system only fails if you try using your mouse. When opening a menu from another menu it always puts the cursor EXACTLY where it needs to be and is actually faster then using a mouse.

5) most likely this will be dropped to a 24 hour cooldown, as 36 hours is just moronic to try to keep track of. But you did not mention local crafting leves. These are 3-4 leves per city PER PROFESSION that you can do all of them as long as your crafting for that profession is high enough (you can only hold 8 at a time but unlike battle leves they disappear from the list when you complete it)

6) fishing is so much fun that I almost want to just focus on getting fishing to 50 without doing anything else

7) AGREED click and buy ruined so many peoples credit cards

8) WHO CARES ABOUT COPY AND PASTING!!!!!!!!!!! if you had played this game for months without watching this video YOU NEVER WOULD HAVE EVEN NOTICED. THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT IS BECAUSE OF FONY! sorry but stop QQing over something you never would have noticed.

9) "foreigners" the reason I almost did not buy the game. So insulting to hear that from a major game company

but again, NONE OF THOSE MAKE THIS A BAD GAME.

here I will even add a few more from you:

cullinary is useless because food buffs are either NYI or just bugged and do not update on your character sheet, either way you have no way of telling what the food actually does.

to further the ui debate:

inventory: no way to sort at all, the order you pick things up in is the order they are in forever

synthesis UI: shows everything in your inventory including things that are never used for crafting ever, making you dig through everything you have to find your crafting mats

gear UI: when you select head to equip a head item, instead of just showing you heads it shows you ever single equipable item. repeat for all inventory slots

when typing, you can type like 15 words max and that is 15 very short words before you have to hit enter and continue your sentance on another input box.

NO WAY TO AUTO REPLY TO SOMEONE, if you get a tell, you must type "/tell (persons first name) (persons last name)" to reply to them

your friends list gives you the option to send tells but not the linkshell menu

anima regen is terrible I used 1/2 my teleporting power in 3 days

guardian aspect regen is terrible as well

GLADIATORS DO NOT START WITH A SHIELD




and ya know what, I still love the game and love playing it.

Vmpwraith
09-26-2010, 12:34 AM
Thank you Krenian for the video on this it explained it nicely but I still don't see how this helps the casual player, Ok they aren't out leveled (vertically) as they put it as fast but still they are out classed by a gamer who can level more classes (horizontally) and use their abilities isn't that still the same (or actually a bigger) problem?

Characters at the same level but vastly different skill levels / sets, I like the armory idea don't get me wrong but the fatigue system was meant to level the field but it doesn't seem like it does at all, A casual level 10 and a maniac gamer level 10 will just be oceans apart in versatility and ability,

Anyway hope it improves -- I want to love FFivX but just cant at the moment,

Ciderhelm
09-26-2010, 12:56 AM
Very interesting video. And yes, he makes logical arguments which are sound.
Ok, kind of hard to respond to this since I don't particularly care about the fatigue system. It is presented very well. It is factually accurate. The system makes sense.

However, he makes a single argument that I hear -- "the system allows more freedom." The fatigue system does not allow more freedom, since you could do the same thing without capping per-day physical xp.

Again, I don't dislike the system or anything, and the video is good. It's just incorrect to say his argument is logical.

Darksend
09-26-2010, 01:03 AM
Thank you Krenian for the video on this it explained it nicely but I still don't see how this helps the casual player, Ok they aren't out leveled (vertically) as they put it as fast but still they are out classed by a gamer who can level more classes (horizontally) and use their abilities isn't that still the same (or actually a bigger) problem?



what it doesn't tell you is that if you had EVERY SINGLE combat and crafting and gathering class at 50, if you were a 50 gladiator and used all your gladiator abilities, they take up so much AP slots that at most you would be able to use 4-5 abilities total from all the other classes combined.

Eoika
09-26-2010, 01:04 AM
Again, I don't dislike the system or anything, and the video is good. It's just incorrect to say his argument is logical.

I have to agree with Cider on this, back in Final Fantasy XI there was no fatigue system. You could level "Horizontally" all you want, but you still had to stop, and level the other classes to help support what role your main class was doing at the time. Its definitely not more free - instead your forcing people to level up other classes, at times when they may not want to level another class cause they enjoy their current class to much. I'm not saying this is the best example either, but as far as leveling up as far as you can, its not free.

Sunanogara
09-26-2010, 01:06 AM
Although I did find this pretty funny as a review in general (as most of Fony's tend to be) I have to say I was disappointed in the way he went about reviewing FF.
Now before everyone starts kicking be back and forth and calling me a fanboy, I'd like to say I'm not personally a fan of FF and am a huge fan of Fony's reviews. I've been watching them from begining and loved every one of them. However this time it really did seem like he was out with a vengeance. Usualy Fony manages to weigh the pros and cons of the game giving the viewer a pretty good feel for the game and giving them (or at least me) a good indication of weather I really want to spend what little money I have on the game. But for some reason Fony failed to mention anything good about the game besides its graphics. Now I don't have a beta key and so for all I know this game might truly suck beyond anything anyone has ever seen before, however with the fan base it has and the ferocity that some of the fanboys show defending the FF series leads me to believe otherwise.

Now I will be the first to agree that copy and pasting terrain, not being able to move while attacking, and not being able to jump are bad qualities to a game. And while this game may come from a famous title the probability that this game is terrible is quite high.
I do however wish Fony had spent a bit more time on other aspects of the game- aspects that he usualy covers. Be it the multiplayer experience, the dungeon system (if there is one), and even character creation (even if the majority are asian chicks with cat tails).
In conclusion I'm sure I will end up taking Fony's advice and steering clear of this game but I was just wondering if I was the only one that felt like he was hitting this game a bit harder than most?
Thanks!

Darksend
09-26-2010, 01:44 AM
Although I did find this pretty funny as a review in general (as most of Fony's tend to be) I have to say I was disappointed in the way he went about reviewing FF.
Now before everyone starts kicking be back and forth and calling me a fanboy, I'd like to say I'm not personally a fan of FF and am a huge fan of Fony's reviews. I've been watching them from begining and loved every one of them. However this time it really did seem like he was out with a vengeance. Usualy Fony manages to weigh the pros and cons of the game giving the viewer a pretty good feel for the game and giving them (or at least me) a good indication of weather I really want to spend what little money I have on the game. But for some reason Fony failed to mention anything good about the game besides its graphics. Now I don't have a beta key and so for all I know this game might truly suck beyond anything anyone has ever seen before, however with the fan base it has and the ferocity that some of the fanboys show defending the FF series leads me to believe otherwise.

Now I will be the first to agree that copy and pasting terrain, not being able to move while attacking, and not being able to jump are bad qualities to a game. And while this game may come from a famous title the probability that this game is terrible is quite high.
I do however wish Fony had spent a bit more time on other aspects of the game- aspects that he usualy covers. Be it the multiplayer experience, the dungeon system (if there is one), and even character creation (even if the majority are asian chicks with cat tails).
In conclusion I'm sure I will end up taking Fony's advice and steering clear of this game but I was just wondering if I was the only one that felt like he was hitting this game a bit harder than most?
Thanks!

No, you most certainly are not, but anyone who agrees with you is being called an FF fanboi and having their points completely ignored. Also people need to realize this was recorded AT LEAST 4 weeks ago, if not longer. Also. also, no FF game ever has had jump or the ability to jump (unless you count the dragoon ability)

Kanzer
09-26-2010, 02:40 AM
NOTHING you said in the above quote was wrong, and in fact 4 is so beyond accurate it makes me cry while leveling when I kill a mob that barely gave me any exp and it respawns as something that should be a mob 3 zones from now (which would be fine but the party SP system is terribly broken). But, ALSO NOTHING you said makes it A BAD GAME. A technically lacking game yes, but I have been playing almost non-stop since Wednesday and I have loved every minute of it.

2) only happens when you play in full screen, windowed mode FTW

3) the menu system only fails if you try using your mouse. When opening a menu from another menu it always puts the cursor EXACTLY where it needs to be and is actually faster then using a mouse.

5) most likely this will be dropped to a 24 hour cooldown, as 36 hours is just moronic to try to keep track of. But you did not mention local crafting leves. These are 3-4 leves per city PER PROFESSION that you can do all of them as long as your crafting for that profession is high enough (you can only hold 8 at a time but unlike battle leves they disappear from the list when you complete it)

6) fishing is so much fun that I almost want to just focus on getting fishing to 50 without doing anything else

7) AGREED click and buy ruined so many peoples credit cards

8) WHO CARES ABOUT COPY AND PASTING!!!!!!!!!!! if you had played this game for months without watching this video YOU NEVER WOULD HAVE EVEN NOTICED. THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT IS BECAUSE OF FONY! sorry but stop QQing over something you never would have noticed.

9) "foreigners" the reason I almost did not buy the game. So insulting to hear that from a major game company

but again, NONE OF THOSE MAKE THIS A BAD GAME.

here I will even add a few more from you:

cullinary is useless because food buffs are either NYI or just bugged and do not update on your character sheet, either way you have no way of telling what the food actually does.

to further the ui debate:

inventory: no way to sort at all, the order you pick things up in is the order they are in forever

synthesis UI: shows everything in your inventory including things that are never used for crafting ever, making you dig through everything you have to find your crafting mats

gear UI: when you select head to equip a head item, instead of just showing you heads it shows you ever single equipable item. repeat for all inventory slots

when typing, you can type like 15 words max and that is 15 very short words before you have to hit enter and continue your sentance on another input box.

NO WAY TO AUTO REPLY TO SOMEONE, if you get a tell, you must type "/tell (persons first name) (persons last name)" to reply to them

your friends list gives you the option to send tells but not the linkshell menu

anima regen is terrible I used 1/2 my teleporting power in 3 days

guardian aspect regen is terrible as well

GLADIATORS DO NOT START WITH A SHIELD




and ya know what, I still love the game and love playing it.

I'm going to have to disagree and say that many of the things above make it a bad game.

1) Fatigue system is unnecessary no matter how you try and slice it or present it. All it accomplishes is pissing people off.

2) I don't want to have to play in windowed mode, and even their windowed mode is terrible. You have to run the config and pre-select your resolution and even then it doesn't fit right. The bottom is still cut off for me and I have to deal with the stupid bar on top to remind me what game I'm playing and a unusable maximize window.

3) The menu system fails when using a mouse, so therefore it fails period. Why? Because the game was released for the PC even before the console version, so it would make sense that people expect it to work with what a majority of players use with their PC, which is: dun dun dunn.... a Keyboard and mouse! Whoa go figure. Better navigation using a gamepad is in no way, shape, or form a justification for their terrible menu system.

4) Yeah I about crapped my pants the first time I attacked a dodo and got smacked for 400 dmg.

5) 36 hours is what they reduced it too after all the complaining, i've seen nothing that leads me to believe it will be dropped to 24 hours, and even then its still dumb. Limiting how many 'quest' you can do per day is just dumb. Like I said, if they actually had some depth, took time to complete, and offered decent rewards I could understand it. But they suck, have no depth, offer randomly generated crap and you can ONLY DO 8 PER DAY! So you make a choice, don't let them control how much time you play and spend endless hours grinding away at mobs, or say "fine" and pay a monthly fee to be restricted. Either way I give a big middle finger to them.

6) No comment

7) No comment

8) I would agree with you normally. But after my grand tour of the entire island that Limsa Lominsa is on, this issue goes way way deeper than simply copying bits of terrain. Theres absolutely no original looking landscape on the entire island, its all green rocky terrain with occasional tunnels leading underground, some of them being equally boring unoriginal 'dungeons' if they can even be called that. Same looking camps with a couple NPCs around a big crystal, uhmm.. different variants of same mobs, yeah, its that bad. Ultimate laziness, next please.

9) They've always been elitist when it comes to gaming.

So yes I'll have to disagree and say everything I commented on indeed makes this a bad game. As well as some of the other things you brought up yourself.

Inventory does suck

Crafting is the most idiotic system I've ever seen in any game. Luck of the draw? You've got to be kidding me.

Tell length is absurd, no auto reply is absurd.

Anima regen is dumb, hell all of their cooldowns are just dumb.

Trust me when I say it pains me to no end to give this game such a terrible review, like I said I'm a FF fanboy and I simply feel like I was screwed over by a company I used to love and support 100% Probably why I'm even going through the effort to write all this, because it pissed me off that much.

In short: There is a big fat line between immersive/challenging/difficult/fun and completely unnecessary, tedious bullshit, and FFXIV is chalk full of the latter.

Darksend
09-26-2010, 03:37 AM
Maybe the interface does not bother me as much because in the year of playing ffxi I never once used my mouse and in endgame ffxi if you were looking ANYWHERE but your combat log you were a terrible player. those 2 things must be numbing me to the issues you guys are having because I am absolutely loving the game so far.

as far as the fatigue system, no one in my LS has hit cap yet (one guy is almost there but only hit physical fatigue a few hours ago - and by that I mean 99/98/97 etc % exp vs 100% exp, he is probably getting about 75% exp still). Most of you seem to think that once you hit fatigue you are done, but there is already a level 25 on another server so that just proves you can push at least 8 (you get fatigue 1K into 17 class rank) class ranks past the fatigue system.

NOT SAYING IT IS A GOOD THING, just saying that ATM it is a non issue because we are nowhere close to hitting 0% exp most of my LS is 16-20 with crafting and gathering professions in the 12-18 range and secondary crafting professions in the 5-10 range BECAUSE we like crafting. Fact is all the best stuff in this game will be crafted so it is something we need to do anyway and most of us started long before we even hit 15 let alone surplus because it was a nice break from the tidium of grinding. Sure the RNG sucks, but it is a hell of a lot better then it was in 11, and I hate the wow crafting system, farm mats and push the create all button and gain 20 levels. At least there is some interaction, varying crystal colors that give different odds for each of the types of synth, sure it is a bit dumb when you fail a lvl 1 pattern at 20 (which has happened) but not very often.

Krenian
09-26-2010, 07:14 AM
Ok, kind of hard to respond to this since I don't particularly care about the fatigue system. It is presented very well. It is factually accurate. The system makes sense.

However, he makes a single argument that I hear -- "the system allows more freedom." The fatigue system does not allow more freedom, since you could do the same thing without capping per-day physical xp.

Again, I don't dislike the system or anything, and the video is good. It's just incorrect to say his argument is logical.

Well you remember me writing about the system when it came out on the Donor Forums so you know I'm just as against it, but the point was simply that a lot of people don't 'understand' the Fatigue system and immediately get negative feelings about it. Heck, I was the same way when I first heard it and got very annoyed as some people would say. But then one of my RL friends showed me this and yeah, okay, the system does still limit you and it sucks if you don't wanna do it, but I see it as this: With this argument of why SE did it, and how they made the game, they went and tried a different route: Making you want to become more powerful by becoming a jack of all trades.

In a way, you can say WoW is limited due to the fact you can only level one toon with two proficiencies when many of them would actually be beneficial to some classes. Take Tailoring: Pretty useless for most classes but the thread for the cloaks have some really good ones for Melee dps. Could you see a Melee level Tailoring? No, because it doesn't add more benefits, however if he had the option to do it, and I'm not saying WoW should think about letting this happen, but if they did, they would allow more moneysinks in the game and creativity on how to improve the game. It does give you that.

In the end, I view the Fatigue system as a moneysink of sorts: A method which allows the hardcore user to power up their own characters (Let's be honest, I doubt someone can go through 18 classes and hit each class with their fatigue system in seven days, and for that matter, as the video explained, by the time you got to probably the 10th, your first class no longer is close to the barrier..) through limiting progress on every class to a certain point per week.

Like I said: I fully agree the system is pretty weird. But I guess I meant logical in the sense that he shows his proof relatively well about how 'good' the system is compared to the previous poster who said the system is just pure crap. That's what I took offense to.

Viertel
09-26-2010, 08:58 AM
Like I said: I fully agree the system is pretty weird. But I guess I meant logical in the sense that he shows his proof relatively well about how 'good' the system is compared to the previous poster who said the system is just pure crap. That's what I took offense to.

That video didn't display any information that hasn't been explained before, and the author explained in the ZAM forums the only reason he did this was to give Square-Enix's PR spin to people in a spoon fed format since they apparently can not read.

Contrary to your opinion, I *do* fully understand how the fatigue system works. I *do* understand it's not real-time hours but instead is more of a pro-rated experience earned per hour. I *do* understand that it takes roughly 2 days to get back an hour of fatigue (which is beans when trying to reach endgame for the first time). I *do* understand hitting the rate at which you hit the fatigue barrier depends on the type of player you are. Do not assume simply because I call it by what I rightfully see it as -- a terrible system imposed on players to cover for slow developing and a rushed release -- that I know nothing about it.

FFXI had the same system in play as far as branching out; this is nothing more than subjobs through a different way of handling them. When they decide to tweak balance they'll restrict abilities to only be used when the main class is selected or an ability will lose effectiveness (usually rendering it not worth the action slot). The difference is, needing to make the decision to spend time leveling those classes instead to support your favorite was enough of method of horizontal progression.

It's the same thing with the system in FFXIV, but they decided to use the fatigue system to put a hard limit on progression. X amount truly possible per week, multiply that by number of weeks needed to hit level cap (depending on how the pro-rated amount extends), and you have a buffer to start working on content. This isn't to 'help' anyone but the developers. They could have just decided to start with a small level cap and increase it every 2-3 weeks and there wouldn't have been anywhere near the 'rumors' and complaints about it. Instead, they push this onto the players stating at first it is to "help" casual players (I have no idea how, and would love to hear the explanation for that one) and then turn around and state this is all to deter RMT (again, you can't deter them).

And please tell me you're not seriously trying to make an analogy between this restrictive experience session and professions. Professions are usually limited in most MMOs, because they're used as either a source of power or money.

The biggest problem with the system is the fact that people are paying to play. If this were a F2P with microtransactions (which SE stated they plan to do anyway as a source of revenue), it would have gotten a raised eyebrow and nothing more.


Although I did find this pretty funny as a review in general (as most of Fony's tend to be) I have to say I was disappointed in the way he went about reviewing FF.
Now before everyone starts kicking be back and forth and calling me a fanboy, I'd like to say I'm not personally a fan of FF and am a huge fan of Fony's reviews. I've been watching them from begining and loved every one of them. However this time it really did seem like he was out with a vengeance. Usualy Fony manages to weigh the pros and cons of the game giving the viewer a pretty good feel for the game and giving them (or at least me) a good indication of weather I really want to spend what little money I have on the game. But for some reason Fony failed to mention anything good about the game besides its graphics. Now I don't have a beta key and so for all I know this game might truly suck beyond anything anyone has ever seen before, however with the fan base it has and the ferocity that some of the fanboys show defending the FF series leads me to believe otherwise.

Now I will be the first to agree that copy and pasting terrain, not being able to move while attacking, and not being able to jump are bad qualities to a game. And while this game may come from a famous title the probability that this game is terrible is quite high.
I do however wish Fony had spent a bit more time on other aspects of the game- aspects that he usualy covers. Be it the multiplayer experience, the dungeon system (if there is one), and even character creation (even if the majority are asian chicks with cat tails).
In conclusion I'm sure I will end up taking Fony's advice and steering clear of this game but I was just wondering if I was the only one that felt like he was hitting this game a bit harder than most?
Thanks!

Welcome to Tankspot, by the way : )

Here's the sad thing about FFXIV that a lot of people get confused over, with this versus his other reviews: there is a horribly, bad ratio of bad to good.

The graphics are top-notch, even if I don't agree with the color palette. But even in the graphics you have the whole CPed terrain issue, as well as the fact that all of the zones so far are nothing more than HD versions of other zones in their past MMO. The races are reused, and the same moronic restrictions are used again as well (nevermind that Japanese players have been clammoring for male Mithra for longer than NA have played the game). I've heard mixed comments about the very, very minor storyline so far: it's usually either "It's great!" with no examples given, that it's merely OK, or that it's just the same rehased plotline SE is known for lately.

That's about it, sadly. There really isn't much good about the game. The controls are awkward, UI is horribly lain out, combat is still utterly boring, mobs are just dropped in the world without thought or plan, the land is barren of life (and largely unused), and there's no viable method of establishing an economy. The graphics are nice, but the models all look like plastic dolls. Guildleves are horribly boring, stale, and too few to really be of any value.

The soundtrack.... this is a problem. I've always liked Nobuo Uematsu's work, and the soundtrack for FFXIV is incredible. The problem, however, is that the soundtrack doesn't fit the game -- at all. It was finished well before the game even hit alpha stage, and the overall feel of the OST is completely different from what is actually in the game. The typical FF Nobuo sound he's famous for just doesn't fit in with the decidedly boring and "realistic" style of world they used for their MMOs.

Multiplayer doesn't really exist at the minute. Oh, sure, you can group up, but EXP/Skill points are determined with what you DO, and in a group a lot of people are just left out in the cold. There isn't a boost to EXP, really, compared to say doing a Guildleve. Plus, at a certain threshold the monsters become essentially raid bosses and become impossible to kill due to poor scaling mechanics. You can't just click on party members' portraits to heal them, nor do the function keys work in that fashion. Drops are also handled in quite possibly the most stupid method I've ever seen: Instead of having a pool or (heaven forbid realism!) loot the corpse, items are automatically, randomly assigned to a player's temporary item list who then has to deal with assigning what he was given to someone else if they need it.

Dungeons, since you asked, pretty much don't exist. There's parts of the world that are underground (think of a massive grotto), but that's about it.

As one sided as it sounds, Fony did try to put in as much positive as he could. It simply isn't there.

Fatetaker
09-26-2010, 10:18 AM
Okay let me drop the disclaimer bomb before I start...

I am not a FF Fanboi. Unless we are referring to FFVII which made the FF series popular around the world in a mainstream way. I played EQ for 7 years(So I know grind) and I played WoW for about 4 years (Check my armory for history). I have been hardcore I have been casual. I also have played almost every current MMO on the market free or paid. I also played FFXI for 3 months during launch (I hated it).

FFXIV is a decent launch title no matter how you look at it. Compared to all other launches this year and prior. OMG it crashes, like WoW still doesn't on occasion? All you fanboi's whether FF or WoW need to get off your pony's.

Every current popular MMO, has grind and copy pasta terrain.

FFXIV isn't perfect but it does seem to blend some current MMO's into an interesting and challenging bowl of entertainment. Crafters provide almost all gear currently (Ala Eve Online), Crafting is active based (Ala EQ2), Large unrestricted parties (Ala WoW raids minus xp and quest pen), Cutscene story quests (Ala FFXI & Wotlk), Open World(Ala WoW era), In depth gear equip (Ala WAR) and more I'm sure I'm missing.

Graphically the game is undeniable the most rich game above even AoC. Their is still alot of content being added to the game as it is a launch title and its no different then any of the games any of you play now at launch. The opinions in this video blog are just opinions of the blogger and do not reflect upon the many players currently playing and bogging down the servers of the game.

If you want a reason not to like the game feel free to take this bloggers opinions on them, they are no more misleading than someone who has reasons to like the game. Yes the UI is a little clunky, but all current popular games that are played by those watching had clunky UI's at launch. What game do you play that still doesn't have grammar errors, hell and your games are made for English speakers lol.

After running to your first quest activation hub, you can teleport there. and when your done with a quest you can teleport for free back. O gawd such long runs...ffs. You can grab all the quests for the area before leaving so you don't have to run back/teleport back to town. You can play in a group and early combat with 1 ability or 2 depending on class goes quickly. Soon you'll have more abilities than you can equip. I mean there is just so much more than what this horrible blogger is mentioning.

If you want a game that challenges you, doesn't give handouts and looks ridiculously good vs all current MMO's. Then FFXIV is worth giving a try. If you don't have patience and want all your epics(well they aren't so epic anymore lol welfare epics) handed to you stick with WoW. I for one am bored and FFXIV is a refreshing change...for now, cause I am not going to speculate what endgame has in store.

Flame away
NOM NOM NOM your tears ^;..;^
So delicious

Krenian
09-26-2010, 01:13 PM
I've tried to like this game. I played it as much as I can, finished my first eight guildleves and tried my hand at crafting. I did mining. I explored the world.

This game just feels terrible. And this is coming from a person who has tried every single final fantasy in the game and has defended SE's decision to the very last.

I have cancelled my Subscription, only four days into the CE, and will most likely bar a HUGE change, not renew. The game just holds no appeal.

The Crafting system is shoddy, and so dependant on the other crafts that you're spending half your time dealing with other areas and running around with your head cut off to do any good. Furthermore, if you fail, you lose all of your materials in a shot. Risk vs Reward is too high. It just makes little to no sense.

The fighting system is alright, and I don't mind it at all. The fights were fun but then after you were locked up for doing 8 guildleves, you were done. It was grind away on mobs that hit you harder than your Leve and get about the same xp. Grinding is therefore quite annoying and is one of those things that make you cringe at the idea of having to do.

The gathering process is actually kinda ridiculous if you think about it. Here's a minigame. Guess where you gotta hit. if you hit it right, hit that area again and you win! If not, you wasted 45 seconds of your mining for...Nothing!

If in four days I feel this annoyed with the game, there ain't much hope for this game in my opinion for me liking it. It is by far one of the worse FFs I've had to play and has severely hurt my liking for SE in the video game department. As of this time, due to what I saw in FF11 and now this, they just don't get it and I will not jump at another MMO made by them.

/sigh.

Cause I really really tried to give this game a shot and it just..doesn't resonate with me at all.

Kanzer
09-26-2010, 01:19 PM
Sounds like we had the exact same experience Krenian. Its been awhile since a game has had me cursing at it for the sheer stupidity of its mechanics. (I need to clarify that because I've yelled at games like HoN recently but for completely different reasons!)

That alone spelled plain as day to me: "Not worth it."

Einlanzer
09-26-2010, 01:49 PM
Hey, Square, why don't you just take the damn battle system from Dissidia, stick it in FFIV, and we'll all cream our jeans in delight. You already have a fun battle system in a game you already own. Just copy/paste that into this damn game, craft a story line to go around it, stick it online, and everyone would play it. Or god, if you can't pull that off, throw in Crisis Core's battle system instead. Both of those are fun, solid battle systems and are a good example of how to take old school game mechanics and modernize them for the ever changing world of RPG's. Get on it already, and I'll give you my money.

Spiritus
09-26-2010, 01:55 PM
I just can't fathom someone, outside of a person who just loves the FF genre (nothing wrong with that), actually walking away with a positive experience with this game after a few hours play.

It isn't the grind that bothers me. I played vanilla EQ. That was nothing but grind.

My major thoughts after testing:

(1) How many buttons does it take to cast one spell?
Apparently 5,000. Ok, more like 2 or 3, depending. Still, I want a responsive UI. I want to click on a mob, press a button, and after the spell's designated cast time, have magic sparkles go boom. In FF14, I have to double click a mob, press a hot key [or click the icon] and then press enter to actually start the cast time on the spell. When I last played, I couldn't change the hotkeys, that means the two buttons I need to press to cast a spell are about as far apart on my key board than they could possibly be:

*1*************************
***************************
**********************ENTER
***************************

This is bad design.

Furthermore, the range on spells is silly. In WoW terms, the range of your average FF14 spell is 15yards.

(2) Levequests
You are a brave hero that just went through this awesome quest line with cool cut scenes! You are now ready to embark in a world of adventure where you will confront the ultimate evil! But first! Kill 5,000,000 marmots 3 at a time.

Now, I said that grinding isn't my beef. It isn't. I really don't mind it. My problem is in EQ, when I created my character, I was joe-blow level 1. I've got just enough moxie and skill to venture out into that newbie zone and help the town guard with the rat problem plaguing the city. I can get on board with that.

However, what SE did with the opening sequences is give you this feeling of epicness to come! This is awesome for a game like, say, God of War where you can script the entire journey of the player so they never feel like Kratos is pissing time away gaining levels before the ultimate battle.

Take GoW2 Bam! Opening sequence! Zeus! ZOMG, already?! Our hero engages in a battle where things happen and now he must accomplish a series of tasks in order have the confrontation he desires. They have specific purpose. They feel visceral and woven into the story.

Now FF14, epic intro story! Great evil in the world! Amazing creatures and political intrigue. Sweet cutscenes. It is your destiny to save the world!.... but first the prairie dog population is just too much to handle.

In short, you set up for a disappointing experience when you build up so much intrigue for the player, and then dump them out in "hi, I'm joe-blow level 1" land.

Solution? Oh hai Blizzard! Interestingly enough, Blizzard has taken the two concepts and merged them into one. You start out as joe-blow level one, but you now will follow a somewhat linear story progression with the ultimate confrontation being Deathwing. Unlike Kratos, however, the reason you don't go punch Deathwing in the face right now is... you are level one joe-blow, not that you have a series of tasks to complete before you have the opportunity.

SE only needed to build their story line along with the leves. Give me another piece of the puzzle! Why is this stuff happening? Maybe I need to bribe someone for info? Maybe there is a bunch of low level bandits that were seen involved with the plot?....

No? Kill marmots b/c its good for you? Sigh....okay.

(3) Fantastic character models completely lost in a world of bad collision.
Nothing sucks me out of immersion like not being able do something that I, a normal real world human being, could do. For instance, I can jump off a two foot ledge. I know, an amazing feet of dexterity. My BA FF14 avatar? The one that is level 1,000 and has slain the greatest evil the world has ever known? Not so much.

Why nitpick this? Because the game is a 2010 release. Its sloppy design.

Now, on a completely subjective note, I felt like the terrain and the world to be very "glassy." This may be just me. Maybe it was too clean? Maybe it was the bad collision? I really can't put my finger on it. Just an opinion that could be wrong.


(4) Different Culture is different.
SE developed FF14 for Japan. Why is there a fatigue system? Because excessive video gaming is an actual political issue in Japan. This system is meant to placate the PC. Think of McD's salads. Its saving face at the most basic.

Also, Japan is a collectivist culture. They are use to an authoritarian deeming what is "good" for a group [nothing wrong with this, just a statement of fact]. Notice in the video the narrator tells the listener the system is a "very fair compromise." He does not say that "our focus groups found in to be" or "our play testers found it to be" or "we think it is," but flat out telling you it is a "very fair compromise." But who was doing the compromise? Oh, yeah... SE developers. Of course they are going to like it. They made it up.

Again, this is a culture clash. The reason why so many in the United States do not like it is because SE did not bother to change the way they presented their information or develop their game for a U.S. audience. That is 100% their prerogative.

==========================================

Gonna stick with my top 4 from my experience. All in all, it was a game I wanted to love, but pretty much disappointed me at every conceivable turn, with the exception of character models.

Kurgen
09-26-2010, 11:17 PM
Yeah no, thanks for playing. A turd wrapped in pink tinfoil is still a turd. FFXIV will go down as the worst launching MMO of the entire genre -- beating out Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. That requires a tremendous amount of fail in order to pull that off.

I haven't single a single piece of "wrong information". You can parade around, sticking your fingers in your ears, and ignoring every single thing wrong with the game like the rest of the fanboys. Or, you could actually wake up, and realize this is the biggest waste of purchase we've seen in the gaming history in a long, long time.

The fatigue system is terrible. Period. End of story. Trying to defend it causes you to lose any shred of credibility in an argument.



That's the funny thing. I've seen die-hard anti-WoW people on FFXI/FFXIV forums, and even *they're* admitting they might as well purchase Cataclysm when it comes out because there's no point in sticking with FFXIV. There's just too much wrong with it:


So if someone disagrees with your or has another opinion, they have no credibility. Sounds like our Congress :cool:. So you can rage against it but it reflects on you. Its definitely not your cup of tea, and maybe not mine, but it will fill in what is wanted for some. You don't need 5million US/EU and 10 million Chinese to be considered a success. I still think that trying the gating system can work, since you have so many jobs to do and mixing and matching is the whole theme of the character system. If it helps eliminate a huge xp curve that's sweet. Of course that doesn't work in a single character single class system.

Hopefully with Cataclysm old world refresh will rejuvenate the leveling pace. No one enjoys the world Now its ignore the world and grind to end game within 2 weeks, I was end game raider till recently, and have ground out a *cough* few *cough* alts to raid on off nights. I have begun to hate the race to end game, so the fatigue system is a plus to me.

Orthien
09-27-2010, 03:22 AM
I am an FF Fan and I hate this game. I brought the collectors edition and I am having to force myself to play.
As everyone else had said this just seem a unfinished yet beautiful game that has been designed with the Japanese PS3 market in mind.
This really makes me dishearted in SE and their future products.

The thing that confuses me the most is that they said that they were looking at WoW and other MMO's to get idea on how to improve their game, I see no evidence of that anywhere. It's like they got a report from wikipedia and never looked at the games themselves for what makes them good.

Delicatesse
09-27-2010, 06:31 AM
Flame away
NOM NOM NOM your tears ^;..;^
So delicious

Someone from SE registered to defend their horrible game? :)

Viertel
09-27-2010, 08:15 AM
I have begun to hate the race to end game, so the fatigue system is a plus to me.

I fail to see how playing the game with a class you really like, and the game suddenly saying "No Joe, that's enough Archery for you. Go do something else." is a plus to you.

"Sorry, but you've had too much fun playing this class!"

Viertel
09-28-2010, 03:10 PM
Someone from SE registered to defend their horrible game? :)

Pretty much. All I read were pretty much the standard, blind fanboy argument.

I swear, there must be a FFXIV forum post somewhere that they all copypasta this from.

vazhkatsi
09-29-2010, 08:56 AM
hell, if you remember back in the wow beta(and still in the manual cause they haven't updated their manual since beta) there was a similar system of fatigue to discourage players from playing for too long. it was the rested xp system we have today, except that when you'd played for (in the devs opinion) too long, you would start being tired and only gain 50% xp, then you would get exhausted and only gain 25% xp. and i think it was account wide. however they realized what a terrible system it was and took it out in the release.

I think the big thing that bothers me is that the FF14 beta isn't a beta, its just a free preview of the game, they don't want your feedback, and they are only changing what they want to. its just a free demo for everyone so that people can play it and like it so they buy the game. unfortunately its turning out to be as bad as maplestory, just in 3d. and of course without the ability to jump.

Tomehere321
09-29-2010, 10:19 PM
I think that is gonna be the main problem with this game. The designers have a vision of how everything is gonna be, and for some reason they let people beta test this, without even acknowledging the feedback.

This game is going to turn out to be crap. There are just so many things in this game that the mmo community hate.

Of course, when it comes out its going to be huge. But even the biggest fans of FF are not going to keep wasting their time and money on something that has so many issues for long. While these things may not seem like issues to them, they are big problems to the players.

Its really sad to me, because i was hoping for something that I could play instead of wow from time to time, and im a huge fan of FF. But this is just garbage. The combat is garbage, the questing is garbage, and the design of the game world itself is garbage. It looks a bit smoother then wow, but as has been said before, you cannot copy and paste things around in a game where you want to have people playing several times a week indefinity. It is just complete and absolute garbage. I mean, really, the main thing that this game had going for it, (the landscaping) is just recycled trash.

I hate to sound like an angry fanboy, but you know what, I am.

Darksend
10-01-2010, 02:49 PM
http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=23473

that OTHER guy from zam who does MMO reviews, good alternate perspective in comparing the way NA views MMOS compared to the asian markets in regards to especially questing and about the evolution of MMOs in general. I especially liked this section:


Changing Perspectives

I noted earlier that Final Fantasy XI was a unique MMORPG in the industry, and if I were ever to expand on that, I think I would ultimately say that Final Fantasy XIV is, like its predecessor, a "lifestyle" MMORPG. What I mean by this is that it seems as though Square Enix has set out to create an MMO where players can simply exist and enjoy themselves freely. When it comes to North American MMORPGs, one mindset that players like to get into is to focus almost entirely upon grinding their way to endgame, where they can then get the best equipment possible and move on from there. In Final Fantasy XIV, however, it feels as though there is a great deal of emphasis being placed on the journey; with the hope that players will learn to integrate and immerse themselves into the game. Unfortunately, for players who don't want to take the time to really get into their server's community (sometimes it can get rather time consuming), they may be missing out on everything that FFXIV has to offer.



And before you start spouting fanboi fanboi, he gives his review an honest assessment of all the games flaws.

Fatetaker
10-05-2010, 06:47 AM
Someone from SE registered to defend their horrible game? :)

Your tears haha, hey saw the next tier armor sets for cata. ROFL, wow Blizzard really went all out for the xpac...lol tears nom nom


Pretty much. All I read were pretty much the standard, blind fanboy argument.

I swear, there must be a FFXIV forum post somewhere that they all copypasta this from.

Did I hear subject less fanboi retort #2 nom nom nom. You can call similar experiences in game play copy pasta all you want, but all your doing is denying that there is now a launch title out setting the tone for the next gen MMOs. It's not perfect, it needs improvement but there hasn't been an MMO that is AAA content that has had a perfect launch. It's okay, I used to be blinded by my ignorance once too, I didn't clamor to WoW when it was first gaining popularity, I held out. More out of ignorance and spite that it defamed my precious vanilla EQ, it took over a year for me to finally realize I was being a over zealous fanboi. When I finally caved I got to enjoy what a next gen MMO of the time felt like, I will not blind myself again as I missed much of true experience due to my hubris.

I welcome the challenge of a new unpolished AAA title, I welcome the time table for fixes to some of its rough features. It offers all the current core amenities of any other AAA title with a few new amenities. If it fails to adapt there are other alternatives approach such as Tera. Fanboi argument is way overused....sigh

Spiritus
10-05-2010, 08:51 AM
Unfortunately for FF14, a game that is supposedly built more around experience and lifestyle, fails at both. Communication between players in game is tedious. Terrain pathing is very limited. Combat is not fluid.

The only folks that will gain a positive "experience and lifestyle" perspectives are, in fact, true fans of the FF series. Again, nothing wrong with that, but to say the game is just "different" is overlooking huge design flaws.

Kahmal
10-06-2010, 10:31 PM
Lol damn, I was expecting lousy review but jeez! Doesn't it normally take longer before official ones come out when it comes to MMOs? Some crap about it taking awhile for reviewers to get an established view on the game. I guess they ran out of patience.

Viertel
10-07-2010, 06:09 AM
Your tears haha, hey saw the next tier armor sets for cata. ROFL, wow Blizzard really went all out for the xpac...lol tears nom nom



Did I hear subject less fanboi retort #2 nom nom nom. You can call similar experiences in game play copy pasta all you want, but all your doing is denying that there is now a launch title out setting the tone for the next gen MMOs. It's not perfect, it needs improvement but there hasn't been an MMO that is AAA content that has had a perfect launch. It's okay, I used to be blinded by my ignorance once too, I didn't clamor to WoW when it was first gaining popularity, I held out. More out of ignorance and spite that it defamed my precious vanilla EQ, it took over a year for me to finally realize I was being a over zealous fanboi. When I finally caved I got to enjoy what a next gen MMO of the time felt like, I will not blind myself again as I missed much of true experience due to my hubris.

I welcome the challenge of a new unpolished AAA title, I welcome the time table for fixes to some of its rough features. It offers all the current core amenities of any other AAA title with a few new amenities. If it fails to adapt there are other alternatives approach such as Tera. Fanboi argument is way overused....sigh

I'm assuming that gibberish is English, because I didn't get any sense in it. Instead, I'll just link this. It's a review (whether you like the site or not is irrelevant) from a gaming site that SE pays for advertising.

And it's probably one of the harshest I've seen in a long damn time.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/finalfantasy14/review.html?tag=topslot;title;1

Hide your head in the sands and call people "FF haters" and "WoW fanbois" all you want. These are real problems, and not imaginary ones.

Kazeyonoma
10-07-2010, 11:03 AM
lets keep the personal attacks and fanboy/anti-fanboy-ism out of this thread.

Darksend
10-08-2010, 12:18 AM
While you are at it kaz, can you remind people that this was recorded at least 4-5 weeks probably in the 6-7week range before the game went live, and that even in the 2 weeks I was in open beta I saw huge changes, especially to the UI lag and player accuracy.

Darksend
10-08-2010, 01:25 AM
I'm assuming that gibberish is English, because I didn't get any sense in it. Instead, I'll just link this. It's a review (whether you like the site or not is irrelevant) from a gaming site that SE pays for advertising.

And it's probably one of the harshest I've seen in a long damn time.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/finalfantasy14/review.html?tag=topslot;title;1

Hide your head in the sands and call people "FF haters" and "WoW fanbois" all you want. These are real problems, and not imaginary ones.

something to remember: FFXI was so bad at launch, it did not come out in the US UNTIL THERE WAS ALREADY AN EXPANSION RELEASED IN JAPAN. That is how long SE took to get things right in its last MMO, and is probably the most successful MMO out there besides WoW. Right now, myself, and everyone I am playing with, understand this about SE. We realize we are paying to play the PS3 FFXIV beta. I plan on getting my main combat class to 50 and taking a break from it to level in Cata while SE gets there endgame content in (which will not be before the PS3 launch)

1) setting up your account is stupid, and I played FFXI for a year through playonline. The crysta method is a step back from playonline, which I would have thought was impossible.

2) having to log out to adjust the settings is only a problem once, because honestly once you set your settings how often are you going to change them, never.

3) The complaints about the lack of direction in the initial main quest are valid for an MMO, but as they pointed out, this is a story-driven MMO. In a single player RPG it is not uncommon to have a "go talk to 10 people around town and one of them will randomly tell you what to do" quest. Simply talking to the 3-4 npcs you spawn next to (which your journal tells you to do) will get you headed in the right direction. This shows me the reviewer was just trying to get things done as quickly as possible and probably skipped some of the cutscenes that tell you where to go next.

4) map complaints are somewhat legit. Using the keyboard to scroll is pretty lame but everything of interest is labeled rather clearly, be it with the guild icon, red dots for merchant allies, green arrows for zone changes, and yellow circles for quest objective areas.

5) I cannot understand how after running a console/computer based MMO for the past however many years, SE could not figure out how to have 2 versions of the game that are compatible, one with a computer interface and one with a controller interface. 2 things I find absolutely mind blowing, a) THE PS3 VERSION IS COMING OUT SECOND and it is the platform the game was designed for, if the computer version came out 6 months after the PS3 version because they wanted to completely redo the interface that makes sense, but not the other way around. b) most people playing on the PS3 will be using a keyboard instead of a controller anyway!!!!

That said everything in that paragraph under the blind chicks picture is 100% accurate, but is nothing you are not used to if you had played FFXI for any length of time, so it does not bother me (well maybe the crafting and selling items to vendors) because if you are a crafter and you go to someone's bazzar to repair an item for them, the repair screen only shows items used for repairs. That tells me that system is in the game to show only the items for x slot when you click on slot x, they just had bigger bugs to work out that would affect gameplay not just make it take slightly longer to equip something and they will get it in soon.


Why can't I just drag and drop my skills and spells into the quickslots I want them to fill?" That on the other hand is completely unbelievable that the reviewer would ask that. Because of the class system, you can in theory have every single class to 50, and thus the game needs a system to limit which abilities you can use. Every ability has an AP cost associated with it and you are actually able to swap out abilities rather quickly once you get used to it.

6) merchants are all labeled on your map, but the lack of indication as to what each sells is legit. Fortunately almost everything from the vendors are so overpriced you really only use them for selling (other then the once in your guild hall which only sell profession specific mats)

7) pretty sure the market wards are being patched as I type this (since the server is down for maint) and the new ones are a lot better.

8) The game is balanced around leveling in 2-man groups it seems, which also means so is anima regen. I think they expect you to find a pocket healer or a DD carry in town, one of you port there, the other port back, and both be even by the end of the day. This really needs to be faster but walking is not as bad as they say. What is really annoying is that you get rooted in place when you browse someones bazzar so if you are in a hurry you cannot check the people walking past you.

9) lightning may be good, but the rain is TERRIBLE!

10) there is a reason no one goes to gridaina, narrow halls in MMOs just do not work!

11) leves are actually a terrible way to level up, you only do them for money.

12) tab targeting does target friends which is idiotic, and the not being able to click on people to heal them is not really a big deal because every spell in the game is AOE (which you can toggle the aoe on and off). Also there is an autofollow.

13) "FFXIV and FFXI are bad because they call guilds linkshells instead of guilds" SERIOUSLY?! /sigh

14)

Final Fantasy XIV is a notable entry to the genre but only for what it lacks. It lacks character; bare-bones quests and audiovisual repetition fail to instill a sense of fantasy wonder.

Quests in FFXI never provided EXP, they were used as a means of getting reputation with the various cities (and sometimes an item or gil). Something tells me we will see more quests when they work out some kind of reputation system.


It lacks cohesion; communication failures, economic oddities, and stringent limitations leave you constantly directionless.

this shows a serious problem with gamers mentality, unless they see a big shiny symbol over someones head, they will not talk to NPCs. AH, quest-givers, trainers, and repair/vendor; how often in wow do you talk to the people around dalaran who are just walking around to walk around and are never part of a quest and dont act as vendors. I said this before, with FFXIV, if you get lost on a quest TALK TO THE NPCS around you one of them will always tell you where to go.

As for communication failures, the reliance on the combat log means when fighting you cannot keep up with conversions in guild chat, and crafting/gathering mini-games cancel out your chat once you complete an action (barely enough time to type 3 words between actions). The later needs to be addressed, the first can be solved by letting us separate the 2 logs they already have in game in tabs.

p.s. I love the lack of an AH


And it lacks joy; the abysmal interface and boring monsters make it a struggle to stay invested.

I love the fact that every time I enter combat it is a struggle, you can fight 50+mobs in a row in wow and never needto stop for health or mana, that is no fun. I like having to use all my short cooldowns every fight and having to execute perfectly to win against green and up (blue mobs are weaker then green mobs). When every fight is an "OMG I MIGHT DIE I REALLY NEED TO FOCUS" moment, I find it extremely easy to stay invested. That said out of combat regen can be slightly faster (which it is while standing still which people do not seem to realize I have noticed).


The open-ended classes, the stunning graphics engine, the focus on story--these elements deserve rightful praise. It's a shame they weren't put to use in a game worthy of the Final Fantasy brand. Certainly, Final Fantasy XIV will improve as features are added, yet the failures go beyond the superficial. Updates may address a multitude of flaws, but "fun" is not a feature that can be added with a simple patch.

I beg to differ that "fun" cannot simply be patched in. Other then the terrain, there is NOTHING that cannot be patched in. We are playing the PS3 beta of FFXIV on computers right now, and once the PS3 launch happens, expect to see MASSIVE CHANGES. The difference between myself and those playing with me compared to the people bashing the games flaws is those people have no faith in SE as a company, where as I do and when the PS3 patch hits and completely changes the game I for one will be glad I already have a level 50 class.

BTW Viertel did you read the other review, the one from zam I linked earlier, you know, the guy who works for the same guys as fony? I would love to see a point by point review/counterpoint from someone of the zam review like I did for the gamespot one.

Krenian
10-08-2010, 06:19 AM
Darksend, you need to realize something:

This game is not for everyone. There are some people who are going to be adamant about it being a great game and all, such as yourself.

And there are some people like Viertel that will be against the game because it doesn't fit their style.

Arguing about the game and how people view things and how biased people are is silly. Everyone will have opinions. Heck, just look at Fony and look at the guy you linked from Zam and read their interviews. You can see the difference and both work. It is all a matter of opinion when it comes to this game.

For me, I'm still actually playing the free 30 days and I found that if you play the game extremely casual, and just do your guildleves and do a bit of crafting and you don't go hellbent on the game...well it's not as unbearable as I first thought. I'm actually enjoying a real relaxed and laid back way of playing the game, playing only every two days to finish my guildleves and whatnot. Granted I'm not leveling very fast (Just hit rank 12 gladiator), but I'm enjoying myself.

This game definitely has it's flaws, and I will fully disagree with you: No AH, no Search option, is retarded. I'm not going to spend a half hour looking through each retainer to get an item. I've so far bought most of my gear through the npcs (I've spent nearly 150k gil because of that) and I'm not going to do anything else until they fix or implement some sort of search function; It's not worth the hassle. I play to play the game, not browse an NPC for items.

Darksend
10-08-2010, 06:33 AM
no one uses the market wards, but people in my guild are 25+ crafting and are selling items for 300K through "/sh WTS". Part of it is people are to lazy in this game to walk from one town to another. So if the crafting guild for that profession is in that city, the items made by that profession sell for 1/3 of what they do in the other 3 cities. That is the biggest reason I am in favor of the lack of fast transit and AH, it was the same way in FFXI, each city had a vastly different economy. For example last night right before the server went down someone was selling canvases for 20K in /shout, within seconds 3 different weavers all said "go back to uldha they sell for 30K here in LL"

Krenian
10-08-2010, 06:55 AM
You seem to forget that not everyone is privileged to having a bunch of crafters in their guild. I have a LS of four people. That's it. Some people also don't play as hardcore as you do and don't have as much time.

You, my friend, are seeing it from your eyes and being able to push as hard as you can. Some people don't have that luxury. And for those people, the Retainer system is a timesink that is very annoying and very silly. They need to fix the search option for a retainer system.

Viertel
10-08-2010, 12:59 PM
And there are some people like Viertel that will be against the game because it doesn't fit their style.

I'm only against the game in its current state. If they were to just shove Tanaka off to a side-project that no one cares about (so he can't do any more damage) and clean up all of the moronic design decisions, I'd definitely try it out. I was really excited for it in the alpha phase as it looked really promising and even moreso when the battle shifted to stamina drain after the first phase of beta.

I'm tired of WoW, and was hoping that this would be a game that would at least give me a reason to spend more than a week on it. Right now, FFXIV isn't that game and is a disgrace to the genre for its massive amounts of stepping backwards in time in terms of features and functionality.

Krenian
10-08-2010, 07:52 PM
I'm only against the game in its current state. If they were to just shove Tanaka off to a side-project that no one cares about (so he can't do any more damage) and clean up all of the moronic design decisions, I'd definitely try it out. I was really excited for it in the alpha phase as it looked really promising and even moreso when the battle shifted to stamina drain after the first phase of beta.

I'm tired of WoW, and was hoping that this would be a game that would at least give me a reason to spend more than a week on it. Right now, FFXIV isn't that game and is a disgrace to the genre for its massive amounts of stepping backwards in time in terms of features and functionality.

I think we can all agree on the fact that the game was hyped up and we all hoped that they learned things from FF11 that they wouldn't repeat. It just seems to me that they are trying something completely different but screwing up STILL on the fundamentals of a good MMO. But again, a good mmo is in the eye of the beholder and an opinion held by a player.

Trust me, I so wanted this game to be the next game I can shove WoW aside for. Unfortunately it's not polished and refined enough for that. I'll play on my offtimes but it's going to be very hard for me to resign for another month of payments if they really don't do anything. I'll catch up to it when the PS3 releases and maybe it'll have gotten better. Or I just might bite the bullet and just play very casually.

Right now however, Cataclysm is seemingly an option that I will have to choose instead.

Darksend
10-08-2010, 10:44 PM
party SP has finally been fixed!!!!! which thankfully makes it impossible to level solo, which is the best thing they could have done for the game. It is amazing how much more fun the game got with this one simple change. We were grinding level 25ish mobs with me 25, a 24 healer, an 18 pug and a 16 marauder, and we were all getting 150-200 SP per kill. It was such a change of pace that it felt like a completely different game.

I cannot stress how strongly this change is going to impact leveling.

Viertel
10-09-2010, 01:46 AM
I think we can all agree on the fact that the game was hyped up and we all hoped that they learned things from FF11 that they wouldn't repeat.

The biggest problem with that is Tanaka. He has admitted himself that he's never bothered to play any other MMO aside from FFXI and doesn't want to. He'll kill their own game because he's never looked to see what the other games have to offer beyond FFXI that players enjoy. A lot of people thought it was arrogance when he stated "We've learned nothing from World of Warcraft or other MMOs." when he was stating the truth: they've learned nothing because they never bothered to TRY to see what other companies -- their competitors -- are offering.

Consequently, it's also why FFXI's own playerbase is getting happier now that they've gotten a new game director and staff. Unlike Tanaka, who never listened to players, the new team listened about the problems of leveling with certain classes and came up with a brilliant solution -- level in a small group, full group, or 'raid' and you all get the same amount per kill. Larger groups can kill faster for more experience, but now everyone can level on easier monsters for enjoyment. They released a set of gear per level cap increase that helps to bridge the gap between the old 'endgame gear' and new players, so people are on equal footing again.

Honestly, Tanaka being removed from FFXI is the best decision for the game in terms of keeping players (and subscriptions) happy.

The biggest problem with the game, though, was faulty priorities. Put simply, they spent too much damn time working on the graphical engine. They spent way too much time -- years -- working on Crystal Tools for this generation of games. It's still not that great, is horribly inefficient, but they wanted to use it so that they can do whatever the hell they want with it. They designed it for the PS2 platform and then scrapped it and started over once they realized that it wasn't worth time pursuing such a venture as the PS3 was around the corner. Now they're scrambling for time, time they don't have anymore, for FFXIV after the volatile reaction towards the content-less filled FFXIII and the sad launch status of the next entry.

If FFXIV was truly in development for those five years, I'm pretty damn sure that four of them was just working on the engine. Obvious reasons aside, I can't logically think of anything else that would explain how terrible the state of the game currently is (aside from Tanaka's ego and lack of reality check/market awareness). If they really took five years to make what you have now on retail then we're in an even worse situation; think of how much longer it'll take to get the game into a workable, universally enjoyable state if it took them this long to get to what we have now?

Management is to blame heavily for the state of the game (as well as marketing for pushing such a release date with too little testing time). Depending on who gave the order, some of the blame also falls to the development team for spending so much time on Crystal Tools and even moreso if designing the engine was their idea alone.

It's a modern Diakatana.


party SP has finally been fixed!!!!! which thankfully makes it impossible to level solo, which is the best thing they could have done for the game.

No, that isn't a good thing at all. This is 2010, where there are more casual gamers than 'hardcore'. Not everyone wants to do every single thing in a group. A lot of people play MMOs for the social aspects that come along and not necessarily because they're forced to go to the bathroom in groups of people.

Rendering solo leveling virtually impossible will kill the game. To think otherwise in this day and age is foolish.

Krenian
10-09-2010, 06:45 AM
party SP has finally been fixed!!!!! which thankfully makes it impossible to level solo, which is the best thing they could have done for the game. It is amazing how much more fun the game got with this one simple change. We were grinding level 25ish mobs with me 25, a 24 healer, an 18 pug and a 16 marauder, and we were all getting 150-200 SP per kill. It was such a change of pace that it felt like a completely different game.

I cannot stress how strongly this change is going to impact leveling.

If they killed solo grinding, they have officially alienated me from the game. The only reason I was playing was to enjoy what time I had and not have to deal with people going "LAWL GLAD DEEPS! PUT SHIELDZ ON N00B!". I rather not go through that and just play the way I wanna play. Which Gladiators are fully capable of being good DPS.

I'm not at home so I will see and evaluate when I get back home and do my guildleves but if they made it impossible to solo, I'll be very very annoyed.