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chronicles
08-25-2010, 10:13 AM
Armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Saurfang&cn=Crovaxx[LINK]

I gemmed haste because coming from disc spec, the values are super low.
And should i replace my t9 for 251 chest/head?

ps: i play normally with 2 disc priests (always at least one). Is there any change i could make into my spec to make it more viable (less flash heals overheals and stuff?) i tried renewing more, but that is even slower healing 0o

Harmacy
08-25-2010, 01:39 PM
Your haste definitely is low. Getting a drop like http://www.wowhead.com/item=51837 or http://www.wowhead.com/item=51896 would help a lot. You could get the T10 chestpiece, but I think that in light of your low haste, you might be better served with http://www.wowhead.com/item=50974. I think that gemming a mix of haste and spellpower is the right idea, though.

Spec: You need 3 points in Inspiration, it's a crucial buff even if you don't apply it to the tanks all that often. I'd move the one lonely point from Empowered Healing into Blessed Resilience for bigger Renews and AoE heals - you could also try 1/2 SoL and/or removing Inner Focus to max out BR. There are a few possibilities.

Renew is slower healing, but steady and slow is not bad - ask a Druid! For most fights in ICC, using Renew as filler is going to outperform using Flash Heal as filler.

jvitelli3
08-26-2010, 07:39 AM
Is there some situation or role that you are specifically looking to do or improve? That might help. Gear is great but needs to reflect your play style and the role you are trying to fill. Harmacy is a Genius he helped me tremendously. What he says is exactly correct. Renew is one of the more important spells you have, keep it ticking. POM is another. Keep that up on the tank continuously then fill in with whatever the situation needs. The play from Disc to Holy is very different and does take a somewhat different miindset. I almost always start with Renew, then if I need a quick boost use flash behind it. Unless the target it really critical renew should top him off and keep going even after your flash so sustained damage is somewhat mitigated. If it's a tank, POM, Renew, then Flash if needed. I have enough haste that I can cast GH as quickly as flash when serendipity procs. Comes in handy for those holy !$% moments.

chronicles
08-26-2010, 08:44 AM
Nope, it's just everytime i casted a flash heal it would result in a overheal, and my low haste was defo allowing the other holy priest in raid to snipe the heals. Fixed some pieces now for extra haste. We kinda run icc 25 with 7 healers (ya it seems too much for me aswell) and me intention was to play a role thats fits into fast heals, since as you can imagine throwing a non serep PoH doesnt doesnt happen that often.

Also, since you talk to much about renew, would it be worth to glyph it? I kinda like the idea of less duration but faster healing, but between glyphed renew and just using a flash heal (due serep buff), dunno what to go for 0o

jvitelli3
08-26-2010, 11:20 AM
Glyphs are cheap (relatively) so according to what you are doing it can be a great thing. The added healing can certainly come in handy. It would be a worthwhile glyph. Take a look at my spec. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Duskwood&cn=Mayda&gn=Order+of+Light It's the one recommended here and all I can say is it works. I didn't design this spec someone else did but when I looked at it, I realized it made great sense. First of all, inner focus is definately worth 1 point. To increase your crit chance 25% and at no cost of mana is a great thing. You also took spell warding. That's more of a PVP talent and not worth too much as a raid PVe spec. Also, you took body and soul but didn't spec Empowered healing. Empowered healing will increase your throughput by leaps and bounds. You'll use that much more than you will Body and Soul. You may not need to glyph if you take that spec. You have the same glyphs as I do so I'm going to say you made great choices there :) or at least the same bad ones I did. Your haste is way over mine. I would say between 6-650 should be good. I was once told never gem for haste. Let your gear provide that. Gem for Spellpower, Intellect and Spirit, then crit. I tried upping my haste thinking it would really help but it didn't. Renew is the magic.

Harmacy
08-26-2010, 11:27 AM
The Renew glyph is weird. If it were just "Your Renew heals for 10% more" it would be a no-brainer, but the shortened duration is a huge setback when you want to be rolling your HoT on as many people as possible.

It's situational, there are some fights where it's useful. Try it out and see how you like it.

Also, I dunno about losing Body and Soul. If you run without a Disc Priest, it's a very useful talent, great raid utility. If you do have one, then it's tricky. Personally I run without it but I see both sides to the argument.

Insahnity
08-26-2010, 11:55 AM
Holy priests rarely tank heal, they mostly raid heal. Your gearing, talents and glyphs should reflect this.

Before you get too far, please read http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?56757-WotLK-Holy-Priest-Guide , as a lot of what you ask (and a lot you probably didn't ask but should have) gets fixed when you follow the guide.

Overhealing is a fact of life, something they are trying to fix in Cataclysm. For now, timing is what you fix, which is probably why your raid runs 7 healers, to increase the chance somebody gets a heal. Honestly, if you had 1-2 tank healers and the rest raid healers, and if the raid healers are constantly using AoE Heals (Circle of Healing, Prayer of Mending, Wild Growth, Chain Heal, etc.) there's rarely a time when people don't get heals, it's a matter of timing and quantity.

For example, Precious and Stinky. There is a great example of everybody taking a lot of damage. The tank healers are going to run up the hill trying to heal a tank with the debuff stacks, but really, they are the ONLY people that NEED heals. Why? Because Precious/Stinky are the only major threat, even the zombies on Precious should be going to the tanks. In theory, the DPS could stay with no heals from start of the fight to end, with no negative consequences (although healers are conditioned to freak out when they see a raid's worth of red bars and heal like mad anyways).

A similar example is XT back in Ulduar. During Tantrum, the whole raid is getting whacked pretty hard (about 130% of their health IIRC). The solution, is to raid heal just enough so that they survive the trantrum. Now the differences between Precious/Stinky and XT, is that XT can actually kill you, if the healers don't land heals, and you need healers to land it on 25 people (special emphasis on two tanks). A glyphed Wild Growth or Circle of Healing reaches 6 people, for 4-8k depending on your setup. Typical HPs range from low 20s to low 30s (excluding ICC buff, which is a wash, since heals go up by 30% in addition to HPs by 30%). Therefore, at worst, 2 AoE Heals for 8k will prevent a person from dying (less, if they are geared and hit for 7-8k each, then you need just one). Therefore, 4 raid healers hitting 6 people can heal prevent any raid deaths within 2 AoE Heal CDs (6 seconds). Shaman healers can only hit 4 targets with Chain Heal (glyphed) but they suffer no CD on the heal, which is what makes them remarkbly good, AND it's a smart heal targetting the lowest person automatically. In practice, this doesn't work out all the time, because of people being out of range, etc., but a you can see it isn't impossible to work with 5 healers (1 tank, 4 raid healers, anything else being insurance or for other purposes, like Dreamwalker).

If your raid feels it needs 7 healers, here's the likely culprits
-People taking "stupid damage", like standing in fire/poison/etc.
-Healers with low throughput. By ICC, excluding Disc Priests, you should be capable of doing 4k HPS. If you are doing less than that and you aren't disc, investigate. It could be that DPS/tanks are beyond heal distance, incorrect selection of spells by healers, or both. Also people working outside their strengths contributes, like Holy Priests/Druids Tank healing exclusively with raid heal setups, Holy Paladins raid healing with FoLs, Disc Priests healing with everything but PW:S, etc.
-Healers not working together properly. You can see this if HPS looks good but people are still dying, and the overheals are ridiculous (greater than 60%, typically 70-90%). Look into raid positioning and place healers accordingly.

If you are a raid healer, periodically drop a heal on the tank (especially if disc priest/druid), but it shouldn't be a large component of your heals. Similarly, if a tank healer, don't worry about the raid, let the Raid healers worry. If a healer dies, fine, but otherwise focus. If you are spending more than 20% of your time healing the wrong targets, you are jeopardizing the raid, except when a healer dies and you need to fill a roll in case of emergency. Honestly, if a tank dies with tank healers assigned, but their HPS are quite high due to healing the raid, it's a crime. Same goes with raid healers if the tank is being healed instead.

Akeber
08-26-2010, 12:34 PM
PoM on cd is a big thing. Many priests just throw it out there and wait until it runs out of charges or expires before recasting. In fights with constant AOE this is generally fine becaue it will keepn bouncing, but on anything else PoM will often end up "stuck" on a target. Personally, I thow out PoM on a tank or someone who I know is about to take damage everytime it's off CD, whether or not it still has charge/time left. It's a smart heal, and a big one at that, one of the best spells a priest has, and ofter underutilized.

What's your healing comp? You said 1 or two dics priets, and you, what classes are the others? It really helps to know what your're runnig with spec will be determined by your spell choices, which should depend on your group comp as to where you can "fill holes". For example, if you're short on druids, your best bet is to become a raid healing renew spammer by stacking haste and keeping renew many people as you can, while using CoH and PoM on CD. If you've got 2 druids but no shammy, you can shift to a spot healing role with flash, PoH, CoH. IF you're actually forced (holy priests make terrible tank heals) to tank heal because of a lack of a pally, you'll be using greater heal much more. IMO, your spec atm is not "optimised" for any of these roles.

chronicles
08-26-2010, 01:58 PM
Healers composition:

Always 2 holy palas (for saurfang hc 1 healer gets replaced for another holy pala)
2 disc priests normally
2 holy priests (sometimes one)
1 resto shammy
1 druid

Ya so far i have replaced the flash heal for the renew, and the insta 15% heal seem to be working fine. We got 3 priests running PoM, so is kinda hard not to overwrite it (they overwrite right?) so can't consider so much PoM as i would normally. Tbh i know how i should be healing, but adapting to current raid setup (especially with so many healers) is kinda tricky, i feel like all i do is snipe minor heals with renew and CoH (or maybe thats what im supposed to fit at?).

On another note, i use body and soul for specific situations (hallion combustion, moving trough fester and rot), and it doesnt rlly feel like im wasting talent points, because if we assume that i rarely got space to a flash heal without overhealing, no need for points on empowered healing right?

Akeber
08-26-2010, 03:12 PM
Yeah you're in a bit of an "I don't fit anywhere" situation with your raid comp. With the one druid, I'd probably play raid blanket and go renew spam, CoH and PoM on CD. Have your raid frames set up to show weakened soul and PWS, try and thow the renews on the people who's shield has just fallen off and still have weakened soul. If someone's dangerously low then flash away, and if a group takes a burst throw out a PoH, but other than that follow the above rotation. Haste is excellent for renew spam because priests have no talents to drop the GDC down to 1 sec like druids. Stack as much haste as you mana will allow, and don't glyph renew, you can't keep it running on more than 15 targets as it is, so there's no need to cut the duration.

PoM will overwrite, but the more powerful PoM is the one that takes over, which is a talented holy priest's. So yours should always "survive" should they land on the same target. I like body and soul for the same reasons you've mentioned, but I find it hard to beleive that you'd ever be able to use it in a raid with two disc priests. Everyone should have the weakened soul debuff up 100% of the time.