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View Full Version : DPS Melee dps and haste?!



Valandris
08-19-2010, 11:21 AM
Ok just to say I'm only curious about this point as I'm lvling a mage and I got some rl things coming up where I won't have time to raid(plus I've tried raiding before and gearing drove me nuts and made me take a 2 month sabbatical.)

The question I want to know is if blizz changed something while I was gone that made haste viable for melee dps because if I recall the tankspot guides correctly, haste is the least desired stat for melee dps. Reason being is someone with a rather pretentious name starting tlaking all this crap about haste and melee dps. I then said that most melee dps abilities are instant cast, and I haven't played rogue and I can only think of instant poison being the reason to stat for haste, and maybe frost dw dk for the necrosis thing. I asked about pallies, warriors, and 2h dks, and I was told they don't count for MDPS. So obviously, yes I was dealing with an idiot, but as far as rogues or dw dks, I was unsure if haste even plays a part in those classes and I just wanted a clarification from tankspot in case I'm behind the times on patch notes.

Edit: I've only dpsed with arms and fury warrior and paladin. Stealth tests my patience and death knights test my convictions about not being downright popular (my mage is a troll, not belf or undead TYVM!)

Bashal
08-19-2010, 11:47 AM
I know haste is good for enh. shammies, they get a 5-stack of maelstrom weapon faster.
Rogues stack their poison faster with haste? I think that makes it good for them, too.

MellvarTank
08-19-2010, 11:51 AM
Haste increases your swing speed too from what I recall.

Grannos
08-19-2010, 11:51 AM
I may be wrong in this, but I think the only melee DPS class that really stacks haste is enhancement shaman. I think haste is a pretty low priority for other melee dps classes.

Valandris
08-19-2010, 11:55 AM
I may be wrong in this, but I think the only melee DPS class that really stacks haste is enhancement shaman. I think haste is a pretty low priority for other melee dps classes.

Other than say, enh shammy(which I'm sorry I forgot to mention, don't seem them a lot) I never really considered haste being all that great for MDPS, with the exception of maybe rogue poison stack.

However as far as the idiot who insulted me and all this other stuff in-game, this guy was talking about pure haste rogues being world class dps and that rogues were the only real MDPS. He gave the other 4 classes a 2nd class citizenship in the MDPS nation.

MellvarTank
08-19-2010, 12:04 PM
Actually the only 'real' melee dps class in the game right now (if you want to talk literally) is warriors. No poisons or magic, just straight up pummeling. lulz

But in terms of the game... melee DPS are rogues, feral druids, dk's, enh. shammies, warriors, and ret paladins. (I hope I didn't forget any.... O.o)

Basically, in game terms: Any class that does primarily melee damage is a melee DPS.

Successful Troll is successful?

Loganisis
08-19-2010, 12:09 PM
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/dps/

25H WoL rankings. There's some rogues in there for sure, but it depends on the fight and many different melee classes get in there.

The top Rogue parse on Fester is Mieto.
http://wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=eu&server=Xavius&name=Mieto

190/143 haste depending on his spec.

Blackthief is up there twice in the top 10, but the same, 117 haste
http://wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=eu&server=Der%20Rat%20von%20Dalaran&name=Blackth%C3%ADef

Bashal
08-19-2010, 12:15 PM
...this guy was talking about pure haste rogues being world class dps and that rogues were the only real MDPS. He gave the other 4 classes a 2nd class citizenship in the MDPS nation.

....

....hi, no.

Harmacy
08-19-2010, 06:15 PM
To answer your question, Frost DPS DK's and Rogues both have several haste talents and abilities that interact with haste rating quite nicely. Mutilate spec in particular is an AP/Haste build, similar to an Enh Shammy although with more focus on AP than Haste. Combat is mostly about ArP, but gets quite a bit of benefit from more or less every stat (including Haste). Both specs have Slice and Dice, which is a personal 25 or 30% haste (damned if I remember), and both would be speccing for Lightning Reflexes which is another 10% melee haste.

And DW DK's, they have Icy Talons (personal 20% haste) then Improved Icy Talons (5% personal haste and 20% raid-wide haste), which I believe are all multiplicative (although I have done ZERO research into whether that is true or not). And then if they sub into the Unholy tree, they have two abilities that increase their autoattack damage by quite a bit, Necrosis and Blood-Caked Blade. So their auto-attacks hit quite hard.

Destruyen
08-19-2010, 06:36 PM
for most melee classes haste isn't as good as other stats to gem for (like ap/arp/crit/agi etc.) except for enh shamans. haste allows them to stack malestrom faster along with windfury weapon procs increasing their dps immensely.

for rets, haste is better than arp but thats about it, they don't gem it at all since str is always their best stat to gem for.

for rogues it bounces between agi, ap, and arp (iirc depending on spec and certain ilvls/stat balances).

for dk's it's pretty much straight str for unholy dk's and frost dk's (i honestly don't know if blood is still worth it for any half-serious dps'er, my dk is a blood-spec tank).

haste is the worst stat for arms warriors and fury warriors to gem for until you hit the arp and crit cap which then becomes the best stat to gem (10str/10haste gems in yellow sockets) for fury warriors.

for cats i've seen it go both ways actually, one of the best ferals i've seen (who no longer plays anymore) gemmed full arp no matter what and stomped everyone else's numbers and i've also seen a feral who gemmed for hit and exp. cap with haste and also did very good dps. my feral is a bear and not even 80 yet and i've never really got into cat theorycraft so i can't say for sure on them.

most all of these classes/specs have built-in haste in talents that are grabbed but doesn't mean that haste is the best thing for that spec. the fast swinging duel weild classes (rogues and shamans) will have the best benefit of haste because of procs (malestrom/poisons/windfury) and that white swings are roughly 40% of their dmg done. shamans for sure and rogues i think might be slightly lower depending on spec.

tl/dr: if you see any melee dps'er gemming full haste and they aren't an enh shaman you might need to tell them to go read up on their class.

leethaxor
08-19-2010, 06:44 PM
Now i've seen a few DW dk's gemming str/haste. When I asked why i was informed that it increases the chances of their procs (faster swings = more procs ??). Can anyone confirm?

Toushiro
08-19-2010, 06:46 PM
for dk's it's pretty much straight str for unholy dk's and frost dk's (i honestly don't know if blood is still worth it for any half-serious dps'er, my dk is a blood-spec tank).


Unholy is the only spec that needs to use str 100% no matter what, frost gems ArP after getting XXX amount from gear, blood should stack is no matter what tbh, they get 10% from spec (its not shown on char sheet, and btw blood is top DPS untill heroic one handers for frost and skilltroll or shadowmourne for unholy, which even if I got either or I still wouldn't go unholy (I hate unholy with a passion))

Destruyen
08-19-2010, 07:03 PM
btw blood is top DPS untill heroic one handers for frost and skilltroll or shadowmourne for unholy, which even if I got either or I still wouldn't go unholy (I hate unholy with a passion)

that's prolly why i haven't seen many blood dps dk's then since bryntoll is so easy to get these days, all i see is unholy and a handful of frost (mostly just a haste buff bot for raids lacking an enh shaman) dps dk's.

Toushiro
08-19-2010, 07:10 PM
that's prolly why i haven't seen many blood dps dk's then since bryntoll is so easy to get these days, all i see is unholy and a handful of frost (mostly just a haste buff bot for raids lacking an enh shaman) dps dk's.

I see loads of unholys that suck, and frost is not a buff bot, I see plenty (including me doing top DPS over a lot of other classes)

Harmacy
08-19-2010, 07:15 PM
I see loads of unholys that suck, and frost is not a buff bot, I see plenty (including me doing top DPS over a lot of other classes)

I see loads of everything that suck.

Destruyen
08-19-2010, 07:54 PM
I see loads of everything that suck.

rofl

Airowird
08-20-2010, 12:43 AM
I see loads of everything that suck.True this is

Krenian
08-20-2010, 06:06 AM
Unholy synergizes so well with Bryntroll that it would be silly not to take advantage of getting a weapon like that so early and doing a strong amount of dps. Once you get Shadowmourne then it trumps Heroic Bryntroll easily but that axe will serve you well for a while.

For Frost, as much as you say it's a 'buff bot' Toush, most of the strongest DPS come out of Frost. You might not agree but the numbers on WoW Logs show that Frost normally wipes the floor with Blood.

No offense bud, but Blood is the one that stands out as being the odd spec out for Death Knights. You might tout and shout and complain about other specs being bad and buff bots but as of this point now, most of the time, Frost beats Blood by a significant margin and due to how you can get Bryntroll so early, Unholy stands to be very strong until you get Shadowmourne.

So you might wanna step back and stop touting about how Blood is best and understand that all specs have their place.

Edit: Blood does start to keep up/outmatch Frost if well played when you're at the later levels. Looking at Saurfang for a parsing in Heroic, I did see the first DKs to break the top of the damage charts (In the 270s, no less, damn...lots of warriors in there) as Blood spec. Which means at a certain point, Blood will be once more strongest in DPS spec. However if you look at just simple normal Saurfang, Frost and Unholy are the only specs in the top 100. Not Blood.