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View Full Version : Death Knight Is Army of the Dead worth using?



devilfish
08-18-2010, 09:13 PM
Ok so like most people I'm having issues with serious lag because our DKs insist on using their armies at the start of almost every fight.I am trying to figure out the numbers for the dps/damage increase that army gives. Can a dps Dk do just as good on a fight without using it or would it cripple his opening rotation bad enough to see a huge dps loss. The reason I ask is because I know that myself and several others lag so bad that fps goes through the floor and several people lose dps time and or die to certain fight mechanics because of the lag.

To me it would seem like the dps lost from the raid lagging would be more important than 2 or 3 dks using army.However I would like to know the numbers from some experienced DKs to know for sure before I suggest the switch.

Loganisis
08-18-2010, 10:31 PM
My suggestion would be to log 2 version of the same fight, 1 with, 1 without. Compare the first 1 minute in each. (You'll have to wipe the 1st one after 2 or 3 minutes).

If AotD DPS greater than other DPS loss for the raid, then keep it. Though my feeling is the DPS gain from AotD would be less than the Raid DPS loss if the lag is indeed as bad as you're making it out.

Some fights this could be real trouble on, like LDW or VDW or Rot.


Have you tried turning down your display settings to compensate before asking them to lower their output? If so and it still is a problem, then you've done your part, you'll probably need to ask them to do theirs.

uglybbtoo
08-18-2010, 10:42 PM
Personally never use it on DK it's one of those things at lower gear level it prob makes a difference in ICC gear forget it.

When I tested yonks ago was around 200-300dps while they are up. On a 3K base at the time it was significant (10%)
now on a 9K base doubt it's worth it and may actually stuff up your opening sequence.

If a DK is going to use it has to be before the pull or makes no sense he will lose over 6sec of dps time which the increase in dps would never pay back.

Rishkkin
08-19-2010, 05:25 AM
I don't raid with my dk, but for 5 mans I use it on very specific stuff :
- PoS tunnel, works wonderfully well to keep those streaming from attacking the group
- Black Knight P2 : completely trivalize the ghouls since they are taunted by AotD
- Nexus gauntlet : takes care of all the small flowers

Other than than I don't use it much.

PatrikL
08-19-2010, 06:46 AM
Just do it long enough before the pull to have your runes refresh if you are concerned with your rotation getting screwed up. In the end it wont make more than about 200 dps increase so its far from neccesary. While I do understand your concern that the raid dps loss from ppl getting lag might be higher than the DKs increase, is it really a big problem for ppl? I don't remember ever getting lag from it but I dont have a very old computer either.

And by the way the dps they do is not 200-300 while they are up, its more like 200 dps increase total depending on the length of the fight ofc. See this log for example:

Worldoflogs - Festergut (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vgxwy6t9gl8gacoh/sum/damageDone/?s=3538&e=3773)

(click on the arrow next to my name for example to see how much dps the army did)

Don't forget to summon a ghoul at least once also, they tend to do more damage total than the army does.

Netheras
09-14-2010, 10:58 AM
Personally I hardly ever use it in the 5-mans, but in raids, there are fights in which I would say its helpful and more of a raid dps gain. As the ghouls take your haste values, I generally only use it when Heroism (or Bloodlust if you prefer) is popped, even then, waiting for at least one more proc value from my ring or trinkets to go off in order to maximize the damage they do. If I have used it at the beginning of the fight, in my current gear in ICC 25 (during which my frame lag is horrible, to the point where my rotation is basically more of a hope than a reality) it is usually on Festergut, as the raid leader wants to maximize the DPS while everyone is still alive... i usually get a good 1000 or so extra dps from the ghouls as a baseline value, which puts me at about 9-10k, up from ~7-8k otherwise.

The question is really: is your rotation affected enough in those 6 seconds of cast time +3 seconds of ghoul movement that it is crippled, or just slowed down? My rotation as a melee with horrible frames means that I go through the motions regardless of whether or not I can see when my GCD is up, so I know that I'm at least hitting something. Personally, the spell effect density from all the casters in my own raids seems to be what brings my own frames down.

But if you're tanking in ICC, and I have on 10 man, the AotD ghouls are helpful on the Lady D fight (and others). They actually seem to give a certain amount of aggro to the tank, and I have used it to save the raid while the OT was being resurrected (the increased avoidance while channeling is nice too).

And if you think about it, any amount of extra damage that your raid as a whole can put out on a boss is really a must. If someone in my raid is dead, and the battle rez has been used up, I will raise someone as a ghoul in order to get that extra bit of damage on the boss. Because wiping when you needed an extra 100k damage is annoying.

Not to mention that using Empower Rune Weapon to throw them out in the middle of your rotation frees the DK from worrying too much about their runes.

Just some thoughts (woohoo first post...)

Ion
09-14-2010, 10:58 AM
No.

Worst ability in the game. Wish they'd remove it.

Kazeyonoma
09-14-2010, 11:11 AM
my guild dk's use it all the time during strategic points of fights. like transitions on heroic putricide, or vile spirits on LK

Bashal
09-14-2010, 11:16 AM
Perhaps its best to say: if you don't know when a good time to use it is, don't use it.

Goros
09-14-2010, 12:03 PM
Perhaps its best to say: if you don't know when a good time to use it is, don't use it.

+1 to this. On some fights where we pop hero right off the bat (like fester) we wait for the army to be up and then pop hero right after the pull. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the army mobs get bigger just like the rest of the raid does, but I'm not sure if there is any actual tangible increase in damage output.

As far as overall dps, yes it absolutely increases it, provided you use it at the right time and aren't fail about it.

As for it effecting your framerates, time for an upgrade? Or downgrade your video settings? Or turn off addons eating resources? Or get windows 7? Don't let the desire for pretty colors and textures effect your raid performance.

Raysere
09-14-2010, 12:07 PM
I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the army mobs get bigger just like the rest of the raid does, but I'm not sure if there is any actual tangible increase in damage output.

Of course there is, they attack 30% faster... it's as tangible for them as it is for any other pet.

Goros
09-14-2010, 12:16 PM
Gotcha. I've never really bothered comparing it, but do bitch when the sham drops hero and doesn't call it first. Such a waste.

swollenpickles
09-14-2010, 07:06 PM
It's one of those abilities that sounds cool and looks cool (an army of zombies at your disposal is cool IMHO), but in practice is not all that useful. DPS gain is marginal at best (as pointed out by others) and if timed badly can cause more trouble than its worth. Has anyone else seen a DK pop army at the start of a tail swiping dragon fight? End result is the dragon spinning all over the place and party member sent flying. Funny in a 'glad I wasn't the guy that popped army' kind of way.

Krenian
09-14-2010, 07:42 PM
My biggest suggestion for AotD is to do it when you are absolutely sure they can't do havoc. Which means any fight that have adds? Don't bother. Any fight where aggro is sensitive? Don't do it.

You normally need to time your guys. Through all of Wrath, I used AotD and saw a good 800 to 1k dps increase with them. You just need to know WHEN to time it. A lot of people say it's not that much of an increase. to that I say..it really depends on when and how you use it. It normally can increase up to 1k dps, i couldn't say it's a bad ability. It's just...annoying. I wish they just removed the taunt period and behaved like pets that attack the target you choose to attack.

TheYanger
09-14-2010, 10:22 PM
Army is a DPS increase, army Pre-pull as you're describing is almost always how it is used, yes, it is worth them using it.

Goros
09-15-2010, 08:33 AM
It's one of those abilities that sounds cool and looks cool (an army of zombies at your disposal is cool IMHO), but in practice is not all that useful. DPS gain is marginal at best (as pointed out by others) and if timed badly can cause more trouble than its worth. Has anyone else seen a DK pop army at the start of a tail swiping dragon fight? End result is the dragon spinning all over the place and party member sent flying. Funny in a 'glad I wasn't the guy that popped army' kind of way.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

You DO know that army can't taunt raid bosses anymore and hasn't been able to since....like 6 months ago right? They can only taunt heroic bosses, which is not the context of this discussion.

The only risk in popping army at the wrong time is if they mess with your adds, like on deathwhisper, saurfang, princes, etc. where add control is a must have and a bad army moment can cause a wipe.

Bashal
09-15-2010, 09:43 AM
bad army moment

I am so going to use that phrase next time a DK uses this at a bad time.

"Hey <name>, looks like you had a bad army moment, there...."

uglybbtoo
09-15-2010, 10:19 PM
Army is a DPS increase, army Pre-pull as you're describing is almost always how it is used, yes, it is worth them using it.

It's only a DPS increase to the DK so they can epeen .. if it gets people killed or causes problems it decreases raid DPS.

Look at OP situation it's causes raid DPS drop therefore its not worth it not like they are asking to drop something out of a DK's rotation.
I have seen 6 DK's in a 25 man ICC hit army talk about lag chaos for half the raid it's like ony 25 with welps all over again.

Used as you described if it isn't causing problems yeah it's fine.

TheYanger
09-15-2010, 11:04 PM
No offense, but would you tell your mages to stop casting spells because it was lagging one player out? No. It's a dps ability, obviously there are times not to use it, but they're no worse than any other abilities people use mostly. Ony 25 whelps lag people out because it's like 60 mobs all causing little hit effects and most importantly all getting AE'd by player AE abilities, the ghouls don't have any crazy particle effects associated with them, they're not remotely the same.

Unger
09-16-2010, 08:46 AM
This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

You DO know that army can't taunt raid bosses anymore and hasn't been able to since....like 6 months ago right? They can only taunt heroic bosses, which is not the context of this discussion.

The only risk in popping army at the wrong time is if they mess with your adds, like on deathwhisper, saurfang, princes, etc. where add control is a must have and a bad army moment can cause a wipe.

Its not the dumbest thing you have ever seen. Obviously, the person who wrote what you quoted was not aware of the rule change. But cmon.... you play wow. I assume you have been in a PUG? If this is the dumbest thing you have ever seen, Im transferring to your server right now....

You know, your comment would have been just as enlightening if you had left the "This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen" out of your reply.

jpoplive
09-26-2010, 11:28 PM
First free DPS is alway good. Even if you are getting only 100 - 300 dps gains you are still getting free DPS there. With my army I get about 500 - 1000 DPS gain with them. I tend to cast it about 3 sec before the pull and use this macro to cast it:



#showtooltip Army of the Dead
/use Potion of Speed
/cast Empower Rune Weapon
/cast Army of the Dead


Also in fights longer then 6 mins unholy Death Knights can even cast it again. I do not wait for procs to use my Army the first time. With the "Empower Rune Weapon" macroed in, you should not have to worry to much about your runes being on cooldown.

In the end, it is up to the Death Knight to know when to use it. It is always better to use it then not to use it. You just have to keep in mind if there will not be any bad side effects from using it (ie: lag, timing, etc.).

PatrikL
09-27-2010, 02:02 AM
I'm sure you mean you cast AoD first AND THEN Empower Rune Weapon? The order you have described above just wastes 3 runes since all runes should be up before the fight when you cast it...
I would really not recomend using that macro since even better would be to cast about AoD 7 seconds before you want to start attacking (say 4 seconds before the fight starts having 3 secs for the tank to cement some threat) and then you should have your runes back up the normal way when you need them having Empower Rune Weapon left for a later stage in the fight (for moments with procs, hero ans so on).

jpoplive
09-27-2010, 10:19 AM
I'm sure you mean you cast AoD first AND THEN Empower Rune Weapon? The order you have described above just wastes 3 runes since all runes should be up before the fight when you cast it...
I would really not recomend using that macro since even better would be to cast about AoD 7 seconds before you want to start attacking (say 4 seconds before the fight starts having 3 secs for the tank to cement some threat) and then you should have your runes back up the normal way when you need them having Empower Rune Weapon left for a later stage in the fight (for moments with procs, hero ans so on).

No I have the macro right. I have Empower Rune Weapon first not because I want the runes free for the first time I use it but I want the runes free for the second time I use it. Meaning any fight lasting more then 6 mins. Seeing that for unholy Death Knights we can cast AotD every 6 minutes that would put Empower Rune Weapon off cooldown because it only has a 5 minute cooldown. Using AotD 3 seconds before a pull always allows me to get my rotation out perfectly. Also note you do not have to worry about the tank having to "cement" his threat as AotD does not pull aggro off raid bosses. Also by waiting 7 seconds like you are saying would mean you are losing a ton of DPS because your AotD would just be standing there.

Also the 25 runic power it gives allows me to get my Gargoyle out easier on the first rotation if need be. You may also use an "Shift" or "Alt" modifier with Empower Rune Weapon if you don't want to burn it at the start. I choose not to just because I don't use my keyboard to cast spells.

Lynnx
09-27-2010, 03:10 PM
IMO if the dk wants to use AotD and it doesn't lower dps or screw the encounter up, then who cares. Thats their decision, i dont have dks telling me what i can and what i cannot use.
Concerning the lag issue due to AotD... Thats the person who is lagging's fault. Its low cost to get a machine that can handle WoW. If you arent willing to get a machine to handle the game, then i wouldnt be complaining about lag caused by said game. Im not trying to be mean here, but when Ony was wiping my mahcine at lvl 60, i went out and upgraded so i could not lag and keep threat off the squishy clothies, and i feel that works for dps also. If one of our guildies internet connection is too crappy to make them beneficial in one of our raids, then ill replace them until they can get it fixed.
No reason the other 9/24 people in the raid should suffer a wipe from someone not willing to put forth the effort or money to upgrade their computer to handle AotD. Granted maybe some guilds out there dont mind suffering through dcs, lag issues, or other trivial computer issues. But in my guilds case, each persons computer is their own responsibility. These are the least of concerns when trying to get 25 people to down new content.

Kanzer
09-27-2010, 03:24 PM
No I have the macro right. I have Empower Rune Weapon first not because I want the runes free for the first time I use it but I want the runes free for the second time I use it. Meaning any fight lasting more then 6 mins. Seeing that for unholy Death Knights we can cast AotD every 6 minutes that would put Empower Rune Weapon off cooldown because it only has a 5 minute cooldown. Using AotD 3 seconds before a pull always allows me to get my rotation out perfectly. Also note you do not have to worry about the tank having to "cement" his threat as AotD does not pull aggro off raid bosses. Also by waiting 7 seconds like you are saying would mean you are losing a ton of DPS because your AotD would just be standing there.

Also the 25 runic power it gives allows me to get my Gargoyle out easier on the first rotation if need be. You may also use an "Shift" or "Alt" modifier with Empower Rune Weapon if you don't want to burn it at the start. I choose not to just because I don't use my keyboard to cast spells.

The 25 runic power for gargoyle is the only part of that that makes any sense, but even then it doesn't really make sense.

Given the cast time of Army of the Dead it probably doesn't make much difference regardless, but the main point of Empowered Rune Weapon is to bring all your runes off cooldown incase you find yourself short some runes for a critical moment or your rotation gets messed up, or even giving yourself a massive burst in the beginning with blood rotation. Using it before using any ability is effectively wasting the skill, as its just as easy to use it after you cast army of the dead and at least you're getting you runes back instantly...And it'll still be up again by the time you can cast army again.

As for Army of the Dead itself, its a very powerful ability when used at the right times like the ones Kazey brought up, during heroic putricide transitions, vile spirits on LK, etc. And other than that its a very good DPS increase as well when used on fights where they won't be taunting stuff. When I'm DPSing I pop army before every pull if its a proper fight for it, and on some fights, such as sindy or blood queen I can even use it during air phases and get the same effect.

jpoplive
09-27-2010, 03:29 PM
The 25 runic power for gargoyle is the only part of that that makes any sense, but even then it doesn't really make sense.

Given the cast time of Army of the Dead it probably doesn't make much difference regardless, but the main point of Empowered Rune Weapon is to bring all your runes off cooldown incase you find yourself short some runes for a critical moment or your rotation gets messed up, or even giving yourself a massive burst in the beginning with blood rotation. Using it before using any ability is effectively wasting the skill, as its just as easy to use it after you cast army of the dead and at least you're getting you runes back instantly...And it'll still be up again by the time you can cast army again.

Please read what I have posted before you argue my point. If you read I clearly explain why I have it macroed first and I even talk about using a "Shift" or "Alt" modifier if you don't want to burn Empowered Rune Weapon at the start. If you can't understand what I am say that is on you but it does not devalue the reason behind the macro.

Now to make this more clear. I do not macro it after because I like to use AotD two time in fights that last more then 6 minute. Having it macro first allows me to get the AotD out even when all my runes are on cooldown. With the way my rotation is made I am almost never out of runes and my rotation really never gets off so I never have to use Empowered Rune Weapon on anything but AotD. Again I state if you want to not use the Empowered Rune Weapon at the start just add a "Shift" or "Alt" modifier.

Kanzer
09-27-2010, 04:45 PM
Please read what I have posted before you argue my point. If you read I clearly explain why I have it macroed first and I even talk about using a "Shift" or "Alt" modifier if you don't want to burn Empowered Rune Weapon at the start. If you can't understand what I am say that is on you but it does not devalue the reason behind the macro.

Now to make this more clear. I do not macro it after because I like to use AotD two time in fights that last more then 6 minute. Having it macro first allows me to get the AotD out even when all my runes are on cooldown. With the way my rotation is made I am almost never out of runes and my rotation really never gets off so I never have to use Empowered Rune Weapon on anything but AotD. Again I state if you want to not use the Empowered Rune Weapon at the start just add a "Shift" or "Alt" modifier.

Ok? Then have your macro for that, still doesn't make it intelligent to waste it before the pull even happens. Unless a fight has a phase like Blood Queen or Sindy where you can't DPS anyway, then its an overall DPS loss to cast it mid fight in most cases. So I get what you're saying, I'm just saying it still makes little sense.

jpoplive
09-27-2010, 04:50 PM
No it makes sense you just don't understand what is being said. It is okay if you don't understand what I am saying as long as you say that and stop trying to discredit what I am saying.

Kanzer
09-27-2010, 04:51 PM
Alright then.

PatrikL
09-29-2010, 05:33 AM
Having it macro first allows me to get the AotD out even when all my runes are on cooldown. With the way my rotation is made I am almost never out of runes and my rotation really never gets off so I never have to use Empowered Rune Weapon on anything but AotD. Again I state if you want to not use the Empowered Rune Weapon at the start just add a "Shift" or "Alt" modifier.

I think that what we are questioning is how can you have any runes on cooldown before the fight has started? It really shouldnt be possible. In fact the only thing that using Empower Rune Weapon before AoD gains you is 25 runic power. After having used AoD you then have the runic power but one rune of each type on cooldown. Using ERW AFTER AoD will net you runic power AND all runes off cooldown.

But then again, using ERW at the start is a waste either way since your runes are almost back up on their own once AoD has finished casting and you reach the boss.

Are you sure you have understod how ERW works? If you are talking about casting AoD using this macro a few seconds into the fight then I understand what you mean but the problem with casting it mid fight is that you lose a big part of the added dps by not beeing able to attack while casting it so that option is only good when you have specific burn phases of a fight, PP for example and a few others.

Krenian
09-29-2010, 05:46 AM
I'm also seriously questioning the reason why you are doing this.

Let's just dissect your macro right now to explain to you why people are going "wha da fuh."

#showtooltip Army of the Dead
/use Potion of Speed
/cast Empower Rune Weapon
/cast Army of the Dead

The first one is fine, you're showing the tooltip, that's all.
The second one is fine as well, you're going to boost up your ghouls' attack speed doing it this way.

This is where the third one is being questioned: Unless you're in the middle of a rotation where your runes are up, you are basically completely wasting the purpose of the skill. Yes, the extra Rune Power is a nice bonus but it really is secondary when it comes to the main purpose of the skill: To refresh your runes. So basically all you're doing is giving yourself RP if you are doing this at the start of the fight.

Now I can understand if you are doing this while you're in a rotation and you're doing it for Bloodlust/Heroism. This refreshes all your runes just in case your raid is like mine and gives you little notice as to when they will use it. (I curse my RL best friend for being a dink and not wanting to tell me so I can maximize my dps. Ass.)

But if you are indicating what I think you are, and you are doing this right at the start of the battle, so that you have it for Rune Power + ...no, honestly I don't know what you mean exactly with your explanation. I tried a few times to read what you are trying to say and it just makes no sense to me.

Proper usage of AotD has always been at the start of the fight due to the 5 second cast time you are doing while summoning the ghouls. The only time it is acceptable is during phases where enemies take a decently higher amount of damage (Heart phase of XT is one that I recall that could really mess up the heart if the adds were taken care of properly.) otherwise the gain in DPS from the 5 second delay is far less.

Remove the ERW section of your macro and save it for when you're being Bloodlusted/Heroismed. Use it to refresh your runes immediately and just chain a whole lot of damage together. Using it in the macro you are using is counterproductive to not only AotD but for the ERW skill itself as well.

PatrikL
09-29-2010, 06:51 AM
Have been reading through your comments a few more times and I can accept that you want to get the extra runic power and I can even accept that you want to use ERW so its on cooldown for most of the fight thus preventing you from using it by misstake at the wrong time but popping it before AoD is whichever way you look at it before the fight a complete waste. Not only do you lose 3 runes, you also lose some runic power since the casting of AoD takes a few seconds. Just think about it this way:

- If you use ERW before anything else you will gain 0 runes (yes a big fat zero) since none are on cooldown so only 25 runic power.

- If you use ERW after AoD you will gain 3 runes (one of each type) + 25 runic power.

- If you use it in the middle of a fight you will gain up to 6 runes (debatable exactly how many since some will be close to come off cooldown) + 25 runic power.

P.S. The 7 seconds I talked about was 5 seconds for casting AoD + 2 seconds to run to the boss. No matter how good your tank is or the fact that AoD does no aggro you always want to give the tank a second or two just to make sure you dont get insta-gibbed if the tanks first attack(s) misses D.S.

Edit: Added some extra details

jpoplive
10-04-2010, 01:49 AM
I am starting to think no one is really reading what I am writing. Again I state I do not have it macro first for when I pop AotD the first time. I know it does nothing there. That is not it purpose for being in that order. I have it macro first for when I pop it the second time in a fight. If you try poping AotD in the middle of a fight you will see that you can really miss of your rune refreshes. That is why I have it macro there. It has nothing to do with the first use of it. I explained all of this already if you would read what I was saying. I dont know how to be more clear about what I am doing. I am feeling like you are just missing the point here.

Also I am not looking to gain rune after AotD, I am looking to gain the rune before AotD so I can use it at the end of my rotation when all my runes are on cooldown. I have tested this many times over and this gives me the best timeing in rune refreshing in the middle of a fight. Also I do not cast it at the start for the extra runic power that is just a side effect. Also it does not take 5 sec to summon AotD. It takes 5 second for them to get out of the ground but you can go back to your rotation in about 2 secs or less.

If you are not lazy like me you can alway use this macro:


#showtooltip Army of the Dead
/use Potion of Speed
/cast [mod:alt] Empower Rune Weapon
/cast Army of the Dead


This will make it so that you have to press "alt" to use Empower Rune Weapon,if you don't want to waste it in the first pull. I dont use this just because I don't like alt modifiers. Again like I said it makes sense you just are not understanding what is being said.

PS. it depend on how good your tank is and what class your tank is.

kungfugrip
10-04-2010, 04:47 AM
i dont feel like reading everyone's comments but as a pally tank here's how i feel:

i hate army of the dead. it messes up everything and takes the mobs all over with no control. it especially sucks when it's used vs. mobs/bosses that have a cleave or some other conical AoE (bile spray or something) because the mob is just spinning around attack random ghouls the whole time and AoEing the whole raid

the ONLY time it's useful is in situations where there are mobs that can be killed, but can't be taunted (ie, have no aggro table) like the zombies in phase 2 of the black knight in ToC.

Krenian
10-04-2010, 05:46 AM
I am starting to think no one is really reading what I am writing. Again I state I do not have it macro first for when I pop AotD the first time. I know it does nothing there. That is not it purpose for being in that order. I have it macro first for when I pop it the second time in a fight. If you try poping AotD in the middle of a fight you will see that you can really miss of your rune refreshes. That is why I have it macro there. It has nothing to do with the first use of it. I explained all of this already if you would read what I was saying. I dont know how to be more clear about what I am doing. I am feeling like you are just missing the point here.

Also I am not looking to gain rune after AotD, I am looking to gain the rune before AotD so I can use it at the end of my rotation when all my runes are on cooldown. I have tested this many times over and this gives me the best timeing in rune refreshing in the middle of a fight. Also I do not cast it at the start for the extra runic power that is just a side effect. Also it does not take 5 sec to summon AotD. It takes 5 second for them to get out of the ground but you can go back to your rotation in about 2 secs or less.

If you are not lazy like me you can alway use this macro:


#showtooltip Army of the Dead
/use Potion of Speed
/cast [mod:alt] Empower Rune Weapon
/cast Army of the Dead


This will make it so that you have to press "alt" to use Empower Rune Weapon,if you don't want to waste it in the first pull. I dont use this just because I don't like alt modifiers. Again like I said it makes sense you just are not understanding what is being said.

PS. it depend on how good your tank is and what class your tank is.

You say that we're not reading your posts and what I'm telling is that yes, we are, and no, you're not getting the most DPS you could get by doing it the way you do.

You need to realize that DPS is kinda like a wave through a fight. You have the first part where you Peak, and then it plateaus and can be affected by movement situations such as having to run out of fire or other mechanics. The fact that you want to use your cooldown in the middle of the fight, bar a specific mechanic like the heart on XT, is actually more of a DPS loss using that cooldown then.

What I'm saying is refreshing your runes while you're in rotation, is worse DPS than if you properly did it WITHOUT Empowered Rune Weapon. It's an accepted fact: You use your Army at the start of the fight to pretty much go all out in the first minute so that your start DPS is high and then you lower to a more normal dps number.

For example:

With AotD, I can easily pull nearly 8-9k dps (We're talking 10 man, with a guy who's geared in 232 geared stuff in ICC. I haven't played on my DK in ages.) at the start of the fight, which then drops down to to around 7-8k sustained. The reason why it spikes is due to the fact I start it off right now.

Now, the times I use it in the middle of the fights, they tend to boost it far more than at the start and spikes it up even further. The heart phase where extra physical dps is always good is a great time to do so.

You use AotD to spike up your DPS for that little bit to have an average DPS higher than most. Your end number DPS is an average of all your DPS in total combined together. As such, if you can spike up your DPS at certain areas, you'll have a higher average DPS at the end.

Doing it your way every single time will give you a lower threshold of average dps. Simple as that. This is two authors now telling you that the method you are using is simply wrong. As such, this is probably the final time I will explain to you what is wrong. If it works for you, so be it, but we're telling you it's not the Optimal dps that could be used for AotD.

The rest is up to you.

jpoplive
10-04-2010, 06:05 AM
Don't lecture me on how to play the game. I have been playing this game for 5+ years and I have been play a Death Knight from the release of them. I know how to max my DPS and you can't try and say I don't just by one macro I use. Really people who can't get good DPS don't even use macros. Trust me I know what I am going and if you can't understand my point of view then you really should not even be replying to anything I post.



What I'm saying is refreshing your runes while you're in rotation, is worse DPS than if you properly did it WITHOUT Empowered Rune Weapon. It's an accepted fact: You use your Army at the start of the fight to pretty much go all out in the first minute so that your start DPS is high and then you lower to a more normal dps number.

Also I said that I refresh my runes at the end of my rotation and do cast AotD at the start of a fight. so please read before you try and lecture me. Also if you have not been on your Death Knight in ages you have no place telling me what I am doing wrong. I know my class, I know how DPS works, and I don't need someone to talk down to me.

Krenian
10-04-2010, 06:27 AM
Don't lecture me on how to play the game. I have been playing this game for 5+ years and I have been play a Death Knight from the release of them. I know how to max my DPS and you can't try and say I don't just by one macro I use. Really people who can't get good DPS don't even use macros. Trust me I know what I am going and if you can't understand my point of view then you really should not even be replying to anything I post.



Also I said that I refresh my runes at the end of my rotation and do cast AotD at the start of a fight. so please read before you try and lecture me. Also if you have not been on your Death Knight in ages you have no place telling me what I am doing wrong. I know my class, I know how DPS works, and I don't need someone to talk down to me.

I apologize if you feel I'm lecturing you down, but simply because I no longer play my Death Knight as adamantly as you must be, doesn't mean I'm not keeping an eye and as well keeping up with the information that Death Knights have. My guide is still updated to 3.3.5 and is still accurate by nearly every standard and as such, I still will say that I have the ability to analyze and tell people when you are right and wrong. And I'm sorry if you feel like I am talking down to you, but misinformation when it comes to this and just being stubborn because you did not explain your point and nearly 90% of the posters who have tried to correct you are on the same wavelength as me, should tell you that you did not properly explain yourself at all.

We have read your post. We have seen your macro. We also informed you that doing this will give you less DPS on an average. I don't care if you've played 5+ years, age means nothing to me. I've seen people your age in gaming still do terrible DPS. Age simply means you've enjoyed the game for that long. So please don't try to use the age card on me.

This is getting more hostile than needs to be and as such, I will end with this note: Do what you please. If you enjoy doing your DPS and causing you to use that macro gives you more dps than without, then it works for you. In the end, the game is able to be catered to nearly anyone who is smart enough to play the game properly. Kudos to you if it works, but it has been in mine and in Kanzer's that it's more of a loss. Whether or not you want to state that my author status is in question after telling you this information is your choice. To me, it just doesn't make sense, period.

jpoplive
10-04-2010, 06:41 AM
Simple put we will just have to agree to disagree. I am not saying what people are posting is wrong I just saying what I am posting is not wrong. If another result works good for you then so be it. I get my best number doing it the way I do it and no one is going to tell me I am wrong. In the gear I have I almost alway hit the top of the charts and stay there. (and not I am not just playing with crappy people).

So let just end this right now because it really has nothing to do with what this post is all about.

Krenian
10-04-2010, 08:09 AM
Simple put we will just have to agree to disagree. I am not saying what people are posting is wrong I just saying what I am posting is not wrong. If another result works good for you then so be it. I get my best number doing it the way I do it and no one is going to tell me I am wrong. In the gear I have I almost alway hit the top of the charts and stay there. (and not I am not just playing with crappy people).

So let just end this right now because it really has nothing to do with what this post is all about.

Much better way to go around that. :) Makes you look less aggressive and at least able to discuss things rationally. It is to many of our experiences that it works better this way, and to you, it's better the other way.

In the end though, we can all agree that AotD does have it's uses and it's up to the person using it to know when to use it's power.