View Full Version : DPS 2H frost dps bad?
08-16-2010, 04:25 PM
So recently some of the melee in my guild is complaining about the lack of IIT in our raid group, and as we have no regular enhance shammy either, they're looking at one of our two unholy DKs possibly going DW frost. Well, I'm one of the two and since the other uses Frostmourne and regularly produces 15k dps I guess I'm the guy. Here's my problem though; my weapon choices are 1H Frost Giants Cleaver (251), 1H Gutbuster (251), 2H Shadow's Edge (264), or 2H Bryntoll (277).
Is a 2H frost DPS spec any kind of viable? Am I better off switching to to 251 weapons and using the cookie cutter DW spec?
I was thinking something like this:
But I'm not going to waste my time if the pDPS loss is so severe that it negates the rDPS gain. Im pretty comfortable with my unholy DPS build and can do some really nice DPS. I'm not far behind our Frostmourne owners DPS with my Bryntoll. 13-14k ish on static fights like Saurfang.
I'm not looking for flames, but flame if you want. I've looked around a little and haven't found any resource that recommends 2H frost DPS so I guess I'm looking for someone to explain why it's such a bad idea. Nearest I can tell is I'm passing up Necrossis and Blood caked blade with the build I posted above. Maybe ToT makes makes Obliterate hit alot harder than a 2H can?
Thanks for your thoughts Tankspot Community,
08-16-2010, 07:21 PM
Maybe this would be better placed in the HALP forum?
08-16-2010, 07:56 PM
I personally think it depends on your weapon available. I've been 2h frost tanking( yes some people think its bad, i love the HP that the 2H weapons give) and really can't understand why 2H frost would be bad/ sub optimal considering for me threat/ survival is basically a joke now. From this experience I gather that the stats you would be looking for are of course strength and then crit. The spec i would use personally would be http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jfVMzZG0xxArckf00uzAofM which is basically yours but i took out icy reach and put in deathchill (which i would try to use on every cd) and a point in dark conviction. Even as tank i use power auras to track my rime and KM procs.
The # of KM procs i see as being the biggest difference between 2 1h and 2h frost and feel that this might be the breaking point between the 2 styles considering that if the # of KM procs (assuming all procs are used and they can come almost faster than you can use them because of the gcd and other times they just dont seem to happen) will add up to more damage done than the stronger hits of a 2H weapon. This is were some testing would need to be done preferably by you considering your weapon could be deciding factor on which spec you use.
08-16-2010, 08:01 PM
Thanks for the reply uglie,
I hadn't considered proc rates being lower with a 2H verses 2x1H. Seems logical enough though. And I'd imagine that's why it's not posted ANYWHERE that I can find as a viable or even encounter specific dps spec. I'm gonna play with it a little tonight when Im off work just to prove to myself that it's no good, but I do appreciate the response.
08-16-2010, 08:19 PM
Well i for one would like to know the results. As far as the procs are concerned i've had them come back to back and not have time to use but one so that's more or less a wasted proc. Also i like to try and wait a second before using my rime proc to see if i get a KM proc and use both procs at one time. Granted this is from a tank perspective so more than likely that second to wait for a proc will more than likely end up a dps loss. i would try test rotations with attempting to line up KM and rime procs and a rotation that does not line then up but instead uses rime procs as they come.
08-17-2010, 06:06 AM
Maybe this would be better placed in the HALP forum?
In general, 2h Frost is not *bad*, but Threat of Thassarian puts a huge advantage on dual wielding slow weapons. With the weapons you linked, I expect you would likely about break even because of the weapon level disparity. Instant weapon damage is a big deal, but the 2-tier bump for Bryntroll should match if not pass the effect of ToT on 251 weapons, and the heavy Strength benefit and sockets will also probably help push it ahead if it wasn't already.
A 2h Frost spec would make it easier to get IIT, so that could be your smarter option with the heroic Bryntroll, and IIT will end up netting you about 45% more haste in total which will go a long way to narrowing the gap on the swing chances for procs.
08-17-2010, 02:13 PM
Well i for one would like to know the results.
Well, I didnt get to do much raiding last night but I ran a few 5 mans and even fumbling the priority rotation I wasn't all that unimpressed. The burst DPS far surpassed what I'm used to as unholy and on the boss fights that all seemed to last less than a minute I didnt notice any large DPS loss. So I'm looking forward to trying it out in ICC very soon. I'll report back if I find anything interesting.
08-17-2010, 10:58 PM
I have seen some modeling for a 2H spec using shadowmourne that was pretty damn good, but that aside it takes a pretty big disparity in weapons for a 2H to beat out two 1H in frost. Try simming it in your current gear, but I would actually be surprised if the the 251 one handers don't beat out the 2H. Especially if you are putting the proper emphasis on Armor Pen and Haste that make modern frost dps so crazy good.
08-19-2010, 11:08 AM
To be honest, 2H will probably stay inferior no matter what kind of build or set you try to build. You're most likely better off going on with the 251s and waiting to see if 264s drop for you.
It's your best bet. Threat of Thassarian is just that damn good for Frost. It really neutered 2H. I'm not saying that it's not possible to dps with a two hander, I'm saying you're losing out on a very fair amount of dps.
Also, nowadays where Frost is known as dual wielding, prepare to be laughed at if someone inspects you. Thus the problems with going the lone wolf path.