PDA

View Full Version : Druid Boomkin DPS



Treelól
08-14-2010, 07:16 PM
Hey and thanks for taking a look at my post.

I recently leveled my druid to 80 and decided I really enjoyed boomkins. So i decided to retire my death knight and make this my new raiding character. I have around 5k gear score and have yet to do any raiding.

I'm pulling around 5-6k dps at the moment in heroic runs. My rotation is

FF -> MF -> IS -> Starfall (when up) -> Wrath -> Eclipse proc -> Starfall -> End Lunar Eclispe/begining of Solar Eclipse -> Wrath

That is pretty much my rotation. My question is this: Is my rotation correct and is my current DPS bad as I'd like nothing more to enter ICC on this character before Cata is out.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry if this is in the incorrect forum.

Mythrantis
08-16-2010, 07:57 AM
current dps is fine my rotation for my boomkin for a boss fight is FF -> MF -> IS -> Starfall-> Wrath -> Luner Eclipse -> 1 sec of eclipse re-apply MF and IS -> Starfie -> Lunar Eclipse -> 1 Sec of eclipse re-apply MF and IS. then rinse and repeat adding in a starfall with the DoT's when it is up, this way you get buffs from the Dot's when in eclipse.

Quinafoi
08-16-2010, 08:16 AM
current dps is fine my rotation for my boomkin for a boss fight is FF -> MF -> IS -> Starfall-> Wrath -> Luner Eclipse -> 1 sec of eclipse re-apply MF and IS -> Starfie -> Lunar Eclipse -> 1 Sec of eclipse re-apply MF and IS. then rinse and repeat adding in a starfall with the DoT's when it is up, this way you get buffs from the Dot's when in eclipse.

DoT renewal during an eclipse is a DPS loss. Additionally, as the GCD hard minimum is 1 second, it is impossible to renew both Insect Swarm and Moonfire in 1 second.

3% more damage from having Insect Swarm up during a Solar Eclipse applied to up to 11 casts, assuming latency of 100 ms, the actual minimum cast time for Wrath is 1.1 seconds due to the effect of the GCD on spell queuing. The added bonus to Wrath damage is 4.2%. 4.2% * 11 = 42% which is higher than a single 40% buff on one additional cast of Wrath, however, due to the nature of Wrath and the fact that it is an ability with a cast time and not an instant cast, by casting Insect Swarm early you are not only replacing one cast of Wrath at the start of your Eclipse, but also pushing your last Wrath off the end of Eclipse because of loss Nature's Grace. 42% damage bonus is less than 80% damage bonus of two casts.

It is always a DPS loss to renew DoTs during an eclipse.

Your technique is flawed and could account for as much as a 20% loss in overall DPS. Correcting the point in your rotation of when DoTs are renewed has led many balance druids to find gains of 1000 DPS quite easily back in tier 9.

The Lunar Eclipse case is even worse since Starfire's cast time is longer you are basically guarenteed to lose one cast of 40% more crit in order to only have around 6 casts with 4.2% more crit or a total of 25.2% more crit. 25.2% is always less than 40%.

Quinafoi
08-16-2010, 08:51 AM
Balance druid DPS is a phased cycle where priorities shift depending on the point in the cycle. For all intensive purposes, there are only two real phases, however because of the common mistakes people tend to make I explain four separate phases to point out those mistakes. For single target rotation it looks something like this when properly executed.

No-Eclipse Phase
Pre-Eclipse Phase
Eclipse Phase
Post-Eclipse Phase



The No-Eclipse Phase is just that, no Eclipse buff is active. During this phase is when you would execute the following:
Critical raid cooldowns of Rebirth or Innervate or rebuffing after Rebirth.
Raid debuff application if not present, Improved Faerie Fire.
DPET cooldown priorities. Starfall is higher priority than Force of Nature even against a single target, however if there is less than half the cooldown time of Starfall until multiple targets will be available (less than 30 seconds to an event like adds spawning), Starfall should be saved for when multiple targets are present as it will double or more the damage.
DoT renewals depending on WrathCalc optimal renewals. In two piece tier 9, Moonfire may be renewed each No-Eclipse phase, otherwise it is generally ideal to only renew the DoT which will buff your next Eclipse. If both DoTs are being renewed, the one which benefits the next Eclipse should be the one cast last (i.e. going into a Solar Eclipse you would cast Moonfire and then Insect Swarm) in order to assure it overlaps with the Eclipse as much as possible.
Starfire or Wrath depending on which eclipse you are entering next.
The Pre-Eclipse phase is any spells at the start of an Eclipse that you would choose to cast instead of the buffed spell. Many balance druids will make the mistake of renewing DoTs at the start of an Eclipse. This is proven to be a DPS loss however. The Pre-Eclipse or start of Eclipse should be treated identically to the Eclipse phase. By making the mistake of casting other spells at the start of an Eclipse you effectively push spell casts that could have been buffed off the end of the Eclipse.

The Eclipse phase is simply the phase of your cycle where you do nothing but spam the buffed spell. Solar Eclipse you spam Wrath. Lunar Eclipse you spam Starfire. Simple as that. Casting anything else is a DPS loss.

The Post-Eclipse phase is the end of the Eclipse buff where the buff will expire before your next cast completes. Since you have to finish your cast in order for the buff to have its effect, casting an additional Wrath or Starfire at this point is the same as casting it without the buff because you will finish after the buff expires. Experienced balance druids will treat this phase identical to the No-Eclipse phase. This phase is basically only one spell cast, though in the case of a Lunar Eclipse it could be two instant casts (it is any time between 0 and the cast time of your buffed spell, i.e. if Starfire has a 1.8 second cast, it is between 0 and 1.8 seconds for a Lunar Eclipse). This is the ideal time for falling back on your No-Eclipse priorities such as cooldowns and DoT renewals. This also reduces the likelihood of you reentering an Eclipse immediately without getting these casts off.

General Rules
Starfall and Force of Nature should be used on cooldown at the first No-Eclipse/Post-Eclipse phase unless Starfall is being saved for an add spawn event within 30 seconds.
Moonfire can typically be renewed between any Eclipse because you will cast at least two Starfires when entering a Solar Eclipse (2/3 of your glyph benefit) because the first cast could enter Eclipse and the second cast was already in queue.
Only time when DoT clipping is acceptable is when an encounter mechanic will incapacitate you, such as Putricide's phase change on normal. If you know movement will be required soon, it is better to delay your DoT renewal until you move than to cast it at the normal time and again during the movement. If DoTs are already active consider renewing Improved Faerie Fire if the fight will last long or casting Typhoon while moving.

Some general exceptions to the rules.
When pre-potioning a fight, your pre-potion of choice is Potion of Wild Magic. You would take your potion, pop Starfall, Faerie Fire, Moonfire, and begin casting Starfire to enter a Solar Eclipse first since a Lunar Eclipse will not benefit from a Potion of Wild Magic. You take Potion of Wild Magic because it greatly improves your initial Starfall used. Potion of Speed will have significantly less benefit in a pre-potioning scenario. Under normal circumstances you would choose to enter a Lunar Eclipse first. Additionally in a not pre-potioning condition you may choose to open with Force of Nature given the targeting nature of the spell it is sometimes easier to cast it first.

Quinafoi
08-16-2010, 09:03 AM
@Treelól
You logged out in restoration spec in a combination of PvP balance and PvP restoration gear. It isn't possible to gauge what your DPS should be without adequate information about what you would actually be DPSing with.

Treelól
08-17-2010, 04:32 PM
Yeah atm i have double pvp specs as I haven't stepped into raiding on this toon as of yet. However my DPS gear is just full t9. I have around 4.8k-5k GS.

I normally log in my resto pvp set (or in some cases the 2 piece wyrmhide if i was having fun in bgs) due to habbit.

Quinafoi
08-18-2010, 07:51 AM
It is hard to gauge your DPS because gear you log out in is actually sub-optimized. If I were to run your information through WrathCalcs it might come out around 5,000 however from what I am seeing you seem to lack some of the core concepts so your actual DPS is likely lower than what can be calculated. For instance it is already confirmed that you have Battlemaster's Ruination PvP trinket which is stronger than your Mark of the War Prisoner since you are way over the hit cap. You are forced into using it because you are running a 3/3 Owlkin Frenzy spec and running 0/2 Balance of Power. Overall your spec is fine however you should spec out of Balance of Power as hit becomes too high, not spec out of it intentionally and overcompensate hit.

First of all, you have to work on your reputations. In particular Kirin Tor and Sons of Hodir in order to gain access to the head and shoulder enchants. The fact that you are maxed out with all of the Alliance Vanguard tells me you've been running instances without ever using a talbard to get reputation for desired factions first. Kirin Tor would be the first priority for a balance druid and second priority for a restoration druid. You need both those reputations to have properly itemized enchants for head and shoulder slot items.

Your enchanting and gemming overall is quite poor. The only item using its optimal is the use of Brilliant Spellthread on the legs. Five items without enchants. A 9 spellpower socket bonus in your helm ignored. For that matter the 5 in the shoulder shouldn't be ignored either if you were using epic gems.

Your gear selection is quite poor as well. Your PvP cloak, boots, bracer, trinket (battlemaster's), and belt are all upgrades over the PvE pieces you logged out in. Using PvE gear for the sake of using PvE gear is the wrong mentality. You are also eligible for the Ashen Verdict ring but don't have it.

It is really hard to guage where to begin in advising you because it would seem you lack a lot of the core concepts of a balance druid. I guess the only advice I can offer at this point would be to go to Hamlet's guide and learn the basics.
http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-druid_balance_pve_updated_3_3_5_a/

Grannos
08-19-2010, 07:55 AM
Not sure what I should actually be doing. My gear is pretty low, wow-heroes says 2.3K GS, and 2300 SP. In heroics, this his how i start, I will spike 6K max (no, not every time, but pretty often) and usually finish right at 5K+ on boss fight. Sometimes its a little lower, just depends on the boss.

FF, force of nature, starfall, MF, IS, wrath till eclipse, then pop trinket, starfire till eclipse agian and go back to wrath. I usually do not refresh my dots, as the bosses do not stay up for long.

Cannot speak for raiding though, have not done any with my boomkin

****EDIT**** I forgot to mention to make sure you are always finishing a cast. If you start wrath and you get an eclipse proc, finish your wrath cast before you change over to stafire. I see so many boomkin that stop there wrath or starfire to change to the other when eclipse procs. That will hurt your dps by a good amount.

Quinafoi
08-19-2010, 08:19 AM
Not sure what I should actually be doing.

Are you asking for advice or giving it?

Quinafoi
08-19-2010, 09:08 AM
A heroic boss is not an adequate measure of sustainable DPS. If the boss only lives for 40 seconds, you have 75% uptime on Force of Nature and 25% uptime on Starfall. Given infinite time, Force of Nature averages at 16.6% uptime and the same for Starfall. Because the fight is so short, you artificially inflate the value of cooldowns. Force of Nature counts 450% more towards your DPS than it would on a prolongued fight and Starfall does around 150% of it's DPS. If WrathCalcs approximates Force of Nature talent as say 175 DPS in value, you gain 613 DPS simply because the fight only lasted 40 seconds. If Starfall was approximated at 750 DPS, you gain 375 DPS simply because of the duration of the fight. There is nearly 1000 DPS increase simply because you inflated the values of the cooldowns by shortening the duration of time they are measured over.

Also, Faerie Fire is a DPS loss in heroics. If you are raid hit capped, you will be passively heroic hit capped. The cost of the GCD in time on such a short fight would not increase the physical damage of your treants by enough to outweigh the damage gained by a single additional Wrath cast (it would add somewhere in the region of 2,000-4,000 damage to your Force of Nature provided they have full uptime, where as a single Wrath will be higher).

Grannos
08-19-2010, 09:20 AM
Are you asking for advice or giving it?

Sorry for the confusion. I did not structure my opening sentence the way I should have. I was trying to give advice through my rotation. My opening comment was just saying that I was not sure if the DPS I am getting is what it should be, with the gear I have.

Sorry about that.

Grannos
08-19-2010, 09:30 AM
A heroic boss is not an adequate measure of sustainable DPS. If the boss only lives for 40 seconds, you have 75% uptime on Force of Nature and 25% uptime on Starfall. Given infinite time, Force of Nature averages at 16.6% uptime and the same for Starfall. Because the fight is so short, you artificially inflate the value of cooldowns. Force of Nature counts 450% more towards your DPS than it would on a prolongued fight and Starfall does around 150% of it's DPS. If WrathCalcs approximates Force of Nature talent as say 175 DPS in value, you gain 613 DPS simply because the fight only lasted 40 seconds. If Starfall was approximated at 750 DPS, you gain 375 DPS simply because of the duration of the fight. There is nearly 1000 DPS increase simply because you inflated the values of the cooldowns by shortening the duration of time they are measured over.

Also, Faerie Fire is a DPS loss in heroics. If you are raid hit capped, you will be passively heroic hit capped. The cost of the GCD in time on such a short fight would not increase the physical damage of your treants by enough to outweigh the damage gained by a single additional Wrath cast (it would add somewhere in the region of 2,000-4,000 damage to your Force of Nature provided they have full uptime, where as a single Wrath will be higher).

That is really good info. Thank you. I am not much on numbers, I know the basic rotation, and i adjust it here and there depending on the group. I do whatever I need to do to get the boss downed as fast as possible. I will tell you though, that I have not tried to take FF out of my rotation, and if I can get more damage by not using it, I will take it out in Heroics for sure. I will adjust things and see what happens.

Thanks again for the info.

Quinafoi
08-19-2010, 09:38 AM
You're DPS is actually higher than it should be, or very close. However for the very reason I explained in the post prior, a heroic boss is not a sufficient context to measure your DPS. Everything is inflated in value in a shorter measure of time. Not only your cooldowns, but procs and trinkets as well. Everything's value increases because the uptime of them has increased.

You aren't doing better than you should, you are just using the wrong method of measuring it.