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View Full Version : Hunter Feeling that my DPS is a tad to lower than it should be.



Kiwicat
08-11-2010, 03:13 AM
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostmane&cn=Kahwin As a start, theres my armory.

Now onto the topic at hand. As the title says, I feel that my dps is abit lacking for considering my gear. I'm hitting 6-7k tops. Sometimes reaching 8k on rare occasions.

My main problem seems to be if I should go with arp gems, or not.. Theres a hundred diffrent people, all saying diffrent things.. Some say I should gem if I reach cap with a trinket, other say I should wait untill I can reach the cap without trinket..

So yeah, help would be appreciated.

Forest
08-11-2010, 06:06 AM
Try and get the 2 piece tier 10. It is also not really worth gemming armpen until you get around 600-700 through gear. Maybe AP or Agi gems would be better?

Kiwicat
08-11-2010, 08:00 AM
I got the T10 2 set bonus? And I played around abit with Rawr and another spreadsheet, I didn't really get a major dps bonus from gemming ap and agi.

swollenpickles
08-12-2010, 11:07 PM
Armory says you currently have 388 ArP. If that's still the case I'd say that there is little point in you actively gemming ArP at this stage. With where your gear, and ArP, is currently at you'd probably lose around 200 or more DPS by swapping all your existing gems to ArP.

Look at your armory I see you have Mark of Supremacy equipped while you hit rating sits at 394. You're currently way over the hit cap which is 262.32 hit rating. Drop the trinket and pick up something else until you can get your hands of WFS for deathwhisper or DBW (if you can get DBW it might make ArP gemming a more attractive proposition) from 25man deathbringer. I'd suggest grabbing Mirror of Truths, you can get it with old school emblems, and while it's only ilvl200 it's probably going to be a dps increase for you (spreadsheet it just to be sure though).

Personally I also like to aim for the 4pc T10 bonus. So I'd replace your current gloves with the t10 gloves as soon as possible (besides which it appears your current gloves are un-enchanted currently).

You should also enchant your 2H weapon with Massacre.

When I look at your spec you've also dropped 2 points into focused aim which is also a waste if you're over the hit cap (in raids you shouldn't be getting hit enough to justify the 'push back benefit' either). Better off shuffling around you spec a little.

I plugged your details into femaledwarf.com and your current dps (with your current gear and spec) is 5625.58.

If you were to replace Mark of Supremacy with Mirror of Truth, and change your spec to something like this:
http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=3&tal=5020000000000000000000000000530513123001323313 52311515000002000000000000000000000
femaledwarf.com lists your dps as 5898.83, which is an increase of 273.25. It may not sound huge but every little bit adds up.

You can find a hit rating calculator here:
http://wow-heroes.com/hitcalculator.phpHope this helps a little.

edit: should also say what I've written is just about gear. Obviously there are other things involved in boosting your dps. eg. hitting your rotation, positioning to minimise movement, the 'shoot and scoot', blowing rapid fire and readiness at the right times etc. Also latency can have a big impact.

Shortshooter
08-14-2010, 02:18 PM
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Black+Dragonflight&cn=Shortshooter&gn=Key+Mash

Your arp is nowhere near where it needs to be and its been stated that your hit is way too high. Since you are MM you are doing no good gemming AGI or AP (Okay, agi does some good but not much), my recommendation, based on your weapons and gemming, go Surv and you will do alot more dps. If you plan on staying MM, Get Banner of Victory from normal TOC-5 Man and drop needle. Temporary boosts of arp isnt good considering your top dps is based on a very loose proc. Drop Mark of Supremacy and use Mirror of truth for the time being. It might be less Gearscored but you will benefit from the proc much more than if you macro'd Mark of Supremacey. You might want to consider dropping your sanc leggings and get the northern lights leggings off of LDW 25m. Get the T10 chest and sanc that bad boy up. Replace your Glacial shaft w/ 10 man Blood Princes Hersirs Greatspear and that should help you with your dps. The serpent sting glyph is a toss up between that and Kill shot, but you aren't doing yourself any favors using the windrunners hands of triumph since you arent using the 2 piece bonus with it.

At the end of the day, youll want your hit to be at 6% the way your talent tree is set up (the focused aim helps quite a bit but as you change out your gear your hit will drop to less than 6%, so maybe take the point out of "Go for the throat" and max your focused aim) I pull 8-10k Depending on my gear. I can have a 1400 hard arp cap and hit cap and still do crap dps if you start your rotation wrong. Right now my hit is almost 7% but if i change 1 piece of gear I can drop it down to an even 5%. Hope this helps


BTW do not use any points in arcane shot, its on the same c/d as your chimera shot and is a waste of talent points for MM.
There is no such thing as a proper build, but one that you like just plug into www.femaledwarf.com (http://www.femaledwarf.com) and you should be able to see what you need to improve on.

swollenpickles
08-30-2010, 07:11 PM
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Black+Dragonflight&cn=Shortshooter&gn=Key+Mash

Your arp is nowhere near where it needs to be and its been stated that your hit is way too high. Since you are MM you are doing no good gemming AGI or AP (Okay, agi does some good but not much), my recommendation, based on your weapons and gemming, go Surv and you will do alot more dps.

That's not necessarily the case. When you start packing higher level gear MM will more than likely come out on top. Surv can be better than MM in the lower tier gear, but once you are in the level of gear the OP is MM comes out on top. Plugging him into a spreadsheet, if the OP were to swap from MM to the cookie cutter survival spec his DPS would potentially drop by 400+.

Suggesting that gemming agility for MM hunters is bad, isn't the greatest advice to be honest. To suggest that the OP will do more DPS as survival is also a little dodgy. There's a misconception that arp is automatically the way to go with MM hunters but it's not always the case. More often that not unless you can constantly hard cap arp then you are better off sticking with agility. Personally I'd stick with agility rather than soft capping arp and relying on a trinket proc (eg. NES) to get me to 1400.

If you can reach 1400 hard cap ArP then it may well be better than stacking agility in most cases, but one thing to consider is that ArP only impacts physical damage, so it only affects your auto shots and steady shot. Therefore if you're moving around a lot, you may actually see lower DPS from an ArP capped MM hunter than you would an agility stacked MM hunter.

Here's a good write up on the armor pen vs agility debate:
http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/07/hunter-armor-pen-vs-agility/

You're actually a good example of why ArP is not always better for MM hunters:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Black+Dragonflight&cn=Shortshooter&gn=Key+Mash

Whilst you've gemmed all ArP at the moment, you are still 189 below the hard cap.

According to the spreadsheet if you swapped all your arp gems for +20 agility gems and place 2 +20 hit gems in appropriate yellow sockets (and activated you meta gem by playing a nightmare tear in your cloak) you'd increase your dps by +193.17.

Shortshooter
09-06-2010, 12:18 AM
If I get DBW or Sharpened Twilight Scale then I will hit the arp cap, however I do reach the arp cap with elixir of armor piercing & hearthy Rhino.
edit: So would it be worth regemming anyways back to agility?

swollenpickles
09-12-2010, 11:44 PM
If I get DBW or Sharpened Twilight Scale then I will hit the arp cap, however I do reach the arp cap with elixir of armor piercing & hearthy Rhino.
edit: So would it be worth regemming anyways back to agility?

Spreadsheet it just to be sure, but personally I feel that if you can't reach the ArP hardcap without gimping everything else, then you're better sticking with Agility, even if you are MM. As for whether its worth it to gem back? That's up to you and how much gold you have laying around. Is the gold cost worth the dps benefit? That's your call. For me I'm broke so I can't afford to switch around all that often :p

Loganisis
09-13-2010, 12:23 AM
Spreadsheet it just to be sure, but personally I feel that if you can't reach the ArP hardcap without gimping everything else, then you're better sticking with Agility, even if you are MM. As for whether its worth it to gem back? That's up to you and how much gold you have laying around. Is the gold cost worth the dps benefit? That's your call. For me I'm broke so I can't afford to switch around all that often :p

Isn't the value of ArP Hard Cap versus Agility for MM fight-specific? If there's anything more than very limited movement then ArP is better because you have enough auto-shot and steady shots to make the hard cap worthwhile, but if you're moving a lot making auto-shots and steady shots less numerous then agility wins out?

Sorry, I'm working on a hunter and getting closer to 80, so I've just started looking into it, but that seems to be the reasoning I've seen in several places?

swollenpickles
09-13-2010, 09:09 PM
Isn't the value of ArP Hard Cap versus Agility for MM fight-specific? If there's anything more than very limited movement then ArP is better because you have enough auto-shot and steady shots to make the hard cap worthwhile, but if you're moving a lot making auto-shots and steady shots less numerous then agility wins out?

Sorry, I'm working on a hunter and getting closer to 80, so I've just started looking into it, but that seems to be the reasoning I've seen in several places?

If you are able to hard cap ArP without gimping other key stats (eg. hit cap) then in most cases you'll probably see better results gemming arp over agility if you're are MM. The thing is, if you want to equip 4 pcs of T10 reaching the ArP hard cap can be very difficult. For me, in 4 pcs of T10, 264 off pieces and DBW (which has massive passive arp), even if I replace all my gems with straight ArP I'm still 300-400 arp short of reaching the ArP hardcap. Equipping an on proc arp trinket like the scorpian (to replace WFS) isn't worth it for me either. Unless I had access to the absolute top tier 25man heroics etc gear I can't see how I can reach the hard cap without totally screwing up everything else.

TL:DR - ArP is probably your best bet in theory (if you can hard cap) but in reality this is very difficult to achieve.

Mallekai
09-14-2010, 09:25 AM
OP

dont gem arp, you have no where near enough yet
gemming for soft-cap can be a very marginal dps gain. but its rarely worth it. people are still set in the pre- arp nerf mindset

drop some damn hit! the trinket has to go asap. i dont care how much GS it gives you, get rid of it. look at replacing it with Mirror of Truth, Banner of Victory, or if you have lots of badges to spare, Herkuml War Token. other good trinkets (though not as easy to get) are Whispering Fanged Skull, Deaths Choice/Verdict, Deathbringer's Will, and Sharpened Twilight Scale.

glyphs. replace aimed and chimera with Steadyshot and Killshot

LDW25 or crafted pants would be a great help. then you could trade out that chestpiece with hit for t10 to maintain the bonus

Mallekai
09-14-2010, 09:33 AM
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Black+Dragonflight&cn=Shortshooter&gn=Key+Mash

Your arp is nowhere near where it needs to be and its been stated that your hit is way too high. Since you are MM you are doing no good gemming AGI or AP (Okay, agi does some good but not much), my recommendation, based on your weapons and gemming, go Surv and you will do alot more dps. If you plan on staying MM, Get Banner of Victory from normal TOC-5 Man and drop needle. Temporary boosts of arp isnt good considering your top dps is based on a very loose proc. Drop Mark of Supremacy and use Mirror of truth for the time being. It might be less Gearscored but you will benefit from the proc much more than if you macro'd Mark of Supremacey. You might want to consider dropping your sanc leggings and get the northern lights leggings off of LDW 25m. Get the T10 chest and sanc that bad boy up. Replace your Glacial shaft w/ 10 man Blood Princes Hersirs Greatspear and that should help you with your dps. The serpent sting glyph is a toss up between that and Kill shot, but you aren't doing yourself any favors using the windrunners hands of triumph since you arent using the 2 piece bonus with it.

At the end of the day, youll want your hit to be at 6% the way your talent tree is set up (the focused aim helps quite a bit but as you change out your gear your hit will drop to less than 6%, so maybe take the point out of "Go for the throat" and max your focused aim) I pull 8-10k Depending on my gear. I can have a 1400 hard arp cap and hit cap and still do crap dps if you start your rotation wrong. Right now my hit is almost 7% but if i change 1 piece of gear I can drop it down to an even 5%. Hope this helps


BTW do not use any points in arcane shot, its on the same c/d as your chimera shot and is a waste of talent points for MM.
There is no such thing as a proper build, but one that you like just plug into www.femaledwarf.com (http://www.femaledwarf.com) and you should be able to see what you need to improve on.

ok, i have to clear up these false statements

MM agi builds are fine. in fact they are more than fine, they're great. just because you dont have much arp doesnt mean you should go SV.


arcane shot does NOT share a CD with chimera. sub 400arp, you should be speccing arcane and using it (prioritised right after aimed). 400-1400arp, drop points out of it, and drop it from your reg rotation, but keep it on your bars, and use it when you have to move and chim and aimed are on CD