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View Full Version : Paladin Tanking: Where to go next for me gear wise, and thoughts on my current spec?



Blindsay
08-10-2010, 05:47 PM
Ok first off my armory link

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Thunderhorn&cn=Blindsay

Ok so a little background first. This is technically my alt although it is my favorite character of mine but my guild doesnt have any room for tanks currently so im a bit limited in what gear i can get. I have access to ICC10, ICC25 (first 4 + fester and rot only) ICC10 Heroic (We are only about 8 in so far) and anything below that (probably not toc25 heroic)

i had a general idea of what i want to upgrade but i just wanted some thoughts on my pieces since i dont have many chances for gear since its technically an alt, so i want to make them count.

Helm, Neck, Wrist, Weapon, Libram and 2nd trinket are the next few things im looking to upgrade.

Helm i was thinking either t10 helm and then hope for a trinket (this would also give me a 2 piece bonus and i wasnt sure how good that is) Other possibilty is broken ram skull from deathwhisper 25 (no 2 piece bonus this way) This would drop me to 147hit but from what i read on another thread i shouldnt worry about that? I read elswhere that our threat stats are expertise to soft cap, then hit, then strength?

Neck i was thinking heroic version of what i have or if i get lucky on a 25man run the bile-encrusted medallion would be best

Wrist - heroic version of mine

Weapon - Heroic version of mine

Libram - badge one, but it doesnt seem like a big upgrade so im in no rush

2nd trinket - i want 2 on hand. i want the toc25 one and the one from professor putricide 10man (maybe even heroic version)

Of course a token for my shoulders would be nice and replacing my 1st ring with the one from dreamwalker 25 would also be nice but those are hard for me to get.

And my talent build is a little different then normal so i was wondering what u think? i wanted to pick as many talents for max tps without sacrificing any important tank talents. Our dps far out gears me since this is an alt so i need all the help i can get lol.

I did a little comparision recently (my math might be wrong so feel free to correct it) on trying to decide if i want Seals of the pure from the holy tree or dig into the ret tree for cursade. i ran toc25 with my current spec and had the following numbers from recount on Jarraxxus

Melee: 88191
SoV: 86318
HoR: 77542
Consecration: 68419
Holy Vengance: 66583
SoR: 58878
JoV: 40576

Total: 486,507

Now if i didnt have Seals of the pure thats 15% less on SoV, the dot and the judgement for

Melee: 88191
SoV: 73370
HoR: 77542
Consecration: 68419
Holy Vengance: 58156
SoR: 58878
JoV: 34490

Total: 459,046

Now with crusade thats an extra 6% accross the board against undead so it would be

Melee: 93482.46
SoV: 77772.2
HoR: 82194.52
Consecration: 72524.14
Holy Vengance: 61645.36
SoR: 62410.68
JoV: 436559.4

Total: 486588.76

So it seems to be about a wash? And is it just me or does reckoning always seem to be debated back and forth?

Metasynaptic
08-10-2010, 09:09 PM
I'd probably be considering the lootship 25 heroic shoulders over the token... easier to get imo.

Wrist you are definatley on the right track.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the frost badge librams were rubbish and that top guilds were using ilvl200 ones... of course that might be for holy.

Overall, I can't really see many gaps in your gear. Your Brew trink might be low ilvl, but it's EH, so you can't be faulted there.


Talents, spec and rotations I'll leave to the experienced paladins.

Blindsay
08-10-2010, 09:16 PM
I'd probably be considering the lootship 25 heroic shoulders over the token... easier to get imo.

Wrist you are definatley on the right track.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the frost badge librams were rubbish and that top guilds were using ilvl200 ones... of course that might be for holy.

Overall, I can't really see many gaps in your gear. Your Brew trink might be low ilvl, but it's EH, so you can't be faulted there.


Talents, spec and rotations I'll leave to the experienced paladins.

Well i have little to no chance of getting any heroic 25 gear, especially given my guild hasnt even downed LK on 25 man yet. and this is an alt :(

And for the libram, i believe it is holy. our top holy pally uses an ilvl200 libram but and i dont think thats true for tank but i could be wrong.

and yeah i like my brewfest trinket but the toc25 one is better, if it ever freakin drops haha

Metasynaptic
08-10-2010, 09:22 PM
Well you can always do a pug 25 ;) if it is an alt, I doubt your guild will care.

Chasey
08-10-2010, 10:02 PM
A few things I noticed! This is my opinion based on threads I've read and what I've tested out.
This guide (http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/guides/theorycraft/matlab-tps-analysis#talents) is all about threat and is probably one of the best know theroycrafters in game who wrote it.






<U>TLDR Summary:

0/53/18 provides the highest threat potential on DUH mobs, with or without Reckoning.
For no-DUH mobs, specs with 5/5 SotP and 5/5 Reckoning are very strong, and will still be decent for DUH mobs (though about 200 TPS behind).
As a general rule of thumb for maximizing threat, fill points in the following order:

OHWS, Divine Strength, TbtL, and Redoubt before anything else.
For DUH mobs, Crusade > SotP> Reckoning > Conviction
For non-DUH mobs, SotP > Crusade > Reckoning > Conviction.

</U>

The DUH mobs refer to Undead, Human and Deamon. Those are all affected by Crusade and then w/the glyph of sense undead that talent becomes a no brainer to take. SotP does not pose the same amout of threat that Crusade will. Its 15% damage every 9 seconds + effects (dot of vengance) vs. every attack having 7% increased damage and the crit that goes along with the cookie cut 0/53/18 build. On top of that you lose vinidication which is mitigation that you control.
2/2 SA is not really necessary in raids as you take enough damage to get your mana back.

Gear is good and you know what you want. I will only mention that the black heart, while lower in stam is a better over all trinket than the brew mug. That armor proc every minute is great.

You gem choices leave me shaking my head a tad. That isn't meant to be insulting but why, may I ask do you go for some socket bonuses and leave others out there? You are well over def cap at 551 and you are socketing def/stam to hit smaller bonuses, I don't see why?

And I know some don't like it here but I'll say it cause I love the "different" aspect here but in the red sockets go w/the agi/stam vs the dodge/stam. The extra armor is nice and well even thou its not huge, it stacks and give you as much dodge and some extra threat to boot.

Your hit rating is fine, your plan is fine. You even understand the toon and threat very well. But you did come here to see what others thought, I'd say, go with the 0/53/18 spec for a bit to see. Fix up the gems and grab the str 245 libram for some extra threat.
Hope this helps.

Blindsay
08-10-2010, 10:42 PM
ill give the new build a shot :D

Gemming i was a bit torn, either go for socket bonus or just stack stam. ill take a closer look and see if the socket bonus is worth it and ill try out some agility/stam gems.

should i just run 1/2 SA then?

i had the black heart trinket but i vendor'd it :( i was planning on getting the toc25 trinket and the putricide10 heroic one and swap those out as needed?

ill check out that libram, sometimes have a little extra tps on tap when needed for some fights is nice

checking out that link you gave me it says accuracy is best for tps(not counting beserking)? i thought we really didnt need much hit?


thanks for taking the time to reply :D

Blindsay
08-10-2010, 10:43 PM
Well you can always do a pug 25 ;) if it is an alt, I doubt your guild will care.

pug icc25 tends to be epic fail on my server. Guild doesnt care though since its an alt (allthough i wish it was my main)

Metasynaptic
08-10-2010, 10:53 PM
Can always start one yourself.

Demand minimum 6/12 ach and see how you go.

If you are struggling to find a 25 KS, you can propose to offer a mark to one at the end of the raid, or pay 100g per heroic unlock... ideas abound.

Chasey
08-11-2010, 01:04 AM
Here is the 0/53/18 build (http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdxfMzbc)!
Remember you are getting some mitigation with the str libram too. Not much but some.
I'd go farming for the black heart again and....plz whatever you do. Don't DE/vendor your tanking gear. No one set/spec/glyph set up works for all. I change from fight to fight.
Mongoose is about IMO and many others around here the best overall enchant, it give you threat and EH. Its got a decent up time too. If you are fine on hit, check out mongoose.
Gems-well its your call. If you are going for the socket bonus make it big stam (+9 or +12) if not just go stam. Here is a good gemming (http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/guides/advanced-training/62-gems) guide.

Here is hands down the best guide I've seen on tanking (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?66564-Why-We-Do-What-We-Do-(An-in-depth-explanation-of-EHP-and-ICC-3.3.3-tanking-mechanics). Give it a look.

Blindsay
08-11-2010, 11:16 AM
Here is the 0/53/18 build (http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdxfMzbc)!
Remember you are getting some mitigation with the str libram too. Not much but some.
I'd go farming for the black heart again and....plz whatever you do. Don't DE/vendor your tanking gear. No one set/spec/glyph set up works for all. I change from fight to fight.
Mongoose is about IMO and many others around here the best overall enchant, it give you threat and EH. Its got a decent up time too. If you are fine on hit, check out mongoose.
Gems-well its your call. If you are going for the socket bonus make it big stam (+9 or +12) if not just go stam. Here is a good gemming (http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/guides/advanced-training/62-gems) guide.

Here is hands down the best guide I've seen on tanking (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?66564-Why-We-Do-What-We-Do-(An-in-depth-explanation-of-EHP-and-ICC-3.3.3-tanking-mechanics). Give it a look.

i thought 2 points into improved judgements was a really bad idea?

edit: what about this http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZV0xA0uGusIufdtsMzbc

Dropped divine sacrifice for 3/5 reckoning. maybe its just me but when im MT i dont seem to ever use Divine sacrifice. and i dropped 1 of the points in judgement for benediction.

And what about moving the 2 points in vindication into conviction? Would vindication be something a ret pally normally takes and does it stack with a warriors demo. shout?

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZV0xA0uGusIufdts0dbc

Blindsay
08-14-2010, 04:19 PM
Ok so here is the spec i switched to

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZV0xA0uGusIufdts0dbc

with my glyph of seal of vengance it puts me at 29 expertise which is great. Swapped out the dodge/stam gems for the agility/stam gems. I went for the socket bonus as long as i lost less then 10 stam if i were to do all 30stam gems

Chasey
08-15-2010, 06:24 PM
Ok so here is the spec i switched to

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZV0xA0uGusIufdts0dbc

with my glyph of seal of vengance it puts me at 29 expertise which is great. Swapped out the dodge/stam gems for the agility/stam gems. I went for the socket bonus as long as i lost less then 10 stam if i were to do all 30stam gems

I hope it works out for you. Spec looks good. But the extra point in imp Judgments is frequently argued about. The extra point is ok, it doens't throw off the 969. The rest sounds really good. Enjoy!

Blindsay
08-17-2010, 10:41 PM
So the new spec is working out quite well and making sure to stick to the rotation, my single target threat and dps went up alot. Got my necklace off of rotface today. Even though the shoulders from lootship are better i think i want to get a token for my t10 ones so i can get the 2 piece bonus of helm + shoulders.