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View Full Version : Warrior Execute vs. Slam vs. Rend



Lieuluke
07-23-2010, 08:43 PM
The basic question i want to ask here is which of the three should be prioritized when a boss is below 20% hp. At high enough gear levels, does Execute beat out Rend on dps sub 20%? Does Execute beat out Slam sub 20%? Should the prioritization be something like Slam > Execute > Rend? Or maybe its Execute > Slam! > Rend? Is Slam! > Execute sub 20% when its a 4pc10 proc?

I think you get the picture. I use the phrase 'high enough gear levels' because i have often seen it said that Execute does not beat out Slam, "unless your gear is good enough" etc.

If that is the case, is my gear level good enough for Execute to be greater than Slam?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Eldre%27Thalas&cn=Luc%C3%ADus

Destruyen
07-23-2010, 09:42 PM
still use slam procs, but every empty gcd in your rotation should be replaced with execute. don't rend at all sub 20%.

DeviousOne
07-23-2010, 10:02 PM
Don't rend at all, period, unless 1. your latency is really, really good and 2....well. Just don't rend.

Voradrac
08-08-2010, 02:56 AM
still use slam procs, but every empty gcd in your rotation should be replaced with execute. don't rend at all sub 20%.

Hes not gonna get bloodsurge procs as arms?

Memsie
08-08-2010, 09:50 AM
Hes not gonna get bloodsurge procs as arms?

He's not Arms.

Khilbron
08-08-2010, 02:02 PM
Don't rend at all, period, unless 1. your latency is really, really good and 2....well. Just don't rend.

This is terrible advice, rending is perfectly fine once you have become accustomed to the proper way to weave rend into your rotation.

DeviousOne
08-09-2010, 05:10 AM
Rend is a minor increase at best. Unless you're working with really good latency, it's really not worth the hassle or trouble.

Krenian
08-09-2010, 06:26 AM
This is terrible advice, rending is perfectly fine once you have become accustomed to the proper way to weave rend into your rotation.

If I recall correctly, even Landsoul states that if you have higher than like...350 Latency, Rend will make you lose DPS instead of gain. So technically he's half right.

Yes, if you do weave it, you will see an increase. The hassle of weaving Rend into your rotation however is tedious at best, and annoying/destructive at worse. I don't really Rend at all in my own rotations and do just fine dps wise. I'd get maybe a few hundred at most..if that.

MellvarTank
08-09-2010, 07:24 AM
I'd get maybe a few hundred at most..if that.

That's a few hundred more than you'd get if you didn't.

It makes the rotation more fun, but it has it's place like anything else. Certain fights will make rend completely useless due to mechanics, so saying "don't use it" or "do use it always" is silly. Know when to use it and it will up your damage, period. Just like anything else.

This is like saying "I'm at 1399 ArP, I don't really need that extra 1 point". What is the point of using Rawr or Landsouls to min/max if you aren't willing to do the same with your rotation?

Bottom line: If you can safely use rend, use it. Once you hit 20% don't, use execute instead. Always Slam!

Krenian
08-09-2010, 08:19 AM
That's a few hundred more than you'd get if you didn't.

It makes the rotation more fun, but it has it's place like anything else. Certain fights will make rend completely useless due to mechanics, so saying "don't use it" or "do use it always" is silly. Know when to use it and it will up your damage, period. Just like anything else.

This is like saying "I'm at 1399 ArP, I don't really need that extra 1 point". What is the point of using Rawr or Landsouls to min/max if you aren't willing to do the same with your rotation?

Bottom line: If you can safely use rend, use it. Once you hit 20% don't, use execute instead. Always Slam!

You have a very very morose view of 'fun' to be honest. I find it tedious and simply annoying to do so.

Different strokes for different folks, remember this.

MellvarTank
08-09-2010, 09:02 AM
You have a very very morose view of 'fun' to be honest. I find it tedious and simply annoying to do so.

Fun being more than 4 buttons. O.o

However, yes, different strokes.

Krenian
08-09-2010, 12:13 PM
Fun being more than 4 buttons. O.o

However, yes, different strokes.

It's more than four buttons. If you think Fury is only 4 buttons, you're doing it wrong. Period.

MellvarTank
08-09-2010, 12:16 PM
Fury is only 4 buttons, you're doing it wrong. Period.

Fury IS four buttons. You have two cooldowns that are NOT in the rotation. Neither are sunder or your shouts (situational). 4 buttons.

Ronninn
08-10-2010, 08:19 AM
If you can we've rend in without messing up your rotation during the dead GCD's, then I do it. It's also handy if you know you are going to switch off a boss for some reason so damage keeps ticking like on BQL, or if they want melee to switch off of Saurfang to smoke a blood beast, or on Sindy right before an air phase, or even if your still doing Putricide on normal mode right before a tear gas.

Kazeyonoma
08-10-2010, 11:41 AM
Fury IS four buttons. You have two cooldowns that are NOT in the rotation. Neither are sunder or your shouts (situational). 4 buttons.

sadly, four buttons is on the higher end of "things to do" for most dps classes.

Unger
08-10-2010, 01:46 PM
In case anyone is wanting to know.... here is the rend difference for my toon in his fury gear, per Landsoul's spreadsheet. You can select "Use Rend (advanced)" to Yes or no. In case you are wondering, its cell K40.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostmane&cn=Unger

The difference in damage based on this is:

Total dps, with Rend - 11,740.2593
Total dps without Rend - 11,622.2693

Total variance is 117.99 dps. This represents approximately 1% of total dps.

However, this assumes that you are standing in one place, not moving, doesnt account for having other responsibilities in the raid (such as sunders, shouts, etc) and having to balance situational awareness with utilizing a perfect rotation.

I am usually a tank, not a dps warrior. So for me, I have to balance the chance to gain 1% with a really strong rotation versus the 5-10% it could drop for not being very good at using rend properly

I believe DeviousOne and Krenian were advising someone who was not finished with LK on either 10 or 25 and giving practical advice based on his/her siutuation. Technically, MellvarTank is correct, but only under optimal conditions and only with an excellent player.

For me, Rend is too big a risk to utilize because I am not a strong enough Fury player. If you do it full time and consider yourself a top fury warrior on the server, it may be a good idea to research it. Otherwise, skip rend until you have gotten everything else down

Erkebrand
08-11-2010, 04:08 AM
If you do it full time and consider yourself a top fury warrior on the server, it may be a good idea to research it

As of today and according to WOL parses (http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/Deathbringer_Saurfang/25H/Fury_Warrior/) on 25H saurfang (ideal fight to rend), none of the current top 10 furywarriors (21k + dps) used rend i their rotation on that fight(notice that Landsouls personal record is at nr 13 - using rend).

This gives weight to the claim that stance-dance/rending is actually a pratical dps loss even though i might be a theoretical dps gain. Likely due to the difficulty involved in nailing a near perfect rotation with rend vs the risk of messing up - even for the best furywarriors out there.

So im with Krenian and Devious on this - dont bother rending.

Krenian
08-11-2010, 05:43 AM
The problem is that Rend is adding that 1% dps increase and it can really mess with 99% of the Fury Warriors trying to play it. There are probably more than 1% of the Fury Warriors that can do it, but I know personally I am not going to go through the hassle of switching over to Battle Stance, rending, back to Berserker stance, and lose my rage I could have dumped into a couple of Heroic Strikes. I just don't see the point to make the spec more 'fun'.

They need to add more attacks for Fury to press, which seems to be what they're doing here for Cata. But right now? I will not rend. There's no point to it, except adding a headache to my rotation.

To those who do and see a dps increase, kudos to ya! But some of us just aren't bothered with the minimal dps increase it does.

Khilbron
08-12-2010, 07:58 PM
As of today and according to WOL parses (http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/Deathbringer_Saurfang/25H/Fury_Warrior/) on 25H saurfang (ideal fight to rend), none of the current top 10 furywarriors (21k + dps) used rend i their rotation on that fight(notice that Landsouls personal record is at nr 13 - using rend).

This gives weight to the claim that stance-dance/rending is actually a pratical dps loss even though i might be a theoretical dps gain. Likely due to the difficulty involved in nailing a near perfect rotation with rend vs the risk of messing up - even for the best furywarriors out there.

So im with Krenian and Devious on this - dont bother rending.

Well I'm still in the rending group, because if you look in detail at those parses, 75% of the warriors above landsoul are recieving external assistance (hysteria, or tricks, or even both), landsoul is at 13 with zero external damage boosters while rending, throw him hysteria and/or tricks and that's #1 right there. With rending.

Erkebrand
08-13-2010, 01:49 AM
Well I'm still in the rending group, because if you look in detail at those parses, 75% of the warriors above landsoul are recieving external assistance (hysteria, or tricks, or even both), landsoul is at 13 with zero external damage boosters while rending, throw him hysteria and/or tricks and that's #1 right there. With rending.

Ok - admittedly i didnt go into that much detail, so good point. However - and im not arguing that rending is not potentially better - im just saying its still worth noting that a significant portion of the top fury-performances is without rending, likely for the reason discussed above.

But if u can do 21k dps with rend in your rotation ill accept that you are truly awesome ;-)

DeviousOne
08-20-2010, 02:48 PM
I can do 18-19k on Saurfang without a Shadowmourne or being fed Hysteria. That's pretty decent I think. On a laggy server such as Illidan, rending is truly a liability.

Shico752
09-15-2010, 01:00 PM
He's not Arms.



umm I don't understand this thread at all if your fury you need to be in berserk stance to whirlwind and you can only rend in Def stance and battle stance so he can't rend at all

Khilbron
09-15-2010, 01:14 PM
umm I don't understand this thread at all if your fury you need to be in berserk stance to whirlwind and you can only rend in Def stance and battle stance so he can't rend at all


You missed the entire discussion. We are talking about those of us that use a macro to dance to battle, apply rend, then dance back to berserker. This method of course only used on free global and only if you are confident in your ability to use it correctly, without rage starving yourself, and maintain your rotation.

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