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View Full Version : Tanking Bonebreaker Scepter Vs. The Facelifter



chaoswhite
07-23-2010, 06:37 AM
So my 10 man turned around and destroyed ICC last night - I picked up the Facelifter, as nobody else wanted it (DK tank).

I am a paladin, currently equipping Bonebreaker Scepter.

Now, I've always been told BS is better, but the in-game comparison appears that I'm getting some better stats from FL, minus some obvious losses.

So, I ask...what would ultimately be better for me? And I'm looking to enchant Mongoose if it means anything.

Thanks!

Dreadski
07-23-2010, 09:03 AM
They are pretty much equal. Facelifter pulls ahead if you are below 26 expertise skill but otherwise they have the same stamina and the same DPS (althought facelifter has slightly more on a decimal level. For paladins, the speed difference of .1 seconds means nothing, for warriors it's about the same but slightly better for heroic strike delivery. <---which is going away in Cata. So equal and the same, except for a small amount of dps and whether or not you favor hit or expertise in your current build. Neither stat is truly necessary.

Harmacy
07-23-2010, 09:40 AM
Slower weapon is better for Paladin threat, because of the way SoV works. But .1 seconds is not a huge deal - if you're under 26 expertise then you'd get more from Facelifter, if you're at or over 26 then you'd get a tiny bit more threat from BBS (unless you're hitcapped).

Insahnity
07-23-2010, 05:08 PM
Actually Dreador, the speed difference favours some paladin abilities over others (slower means harder hitting HotR, but then you also have slower vengeance buildup on start. But TBH, the .1 speed is a wash, but I would also submit the speed difference is also a wash for warriors too. You need to go to 2.6 weapons to see appreciable difference in both classes.

You also need to have racial context. Dwarves benefit from BS more than Facelifter due to 5 expertise bonus. If you are Hordie or non dwarf, pick Facelifter for expertise, BS for hit.

Dreadski
07-23-2010, 07:57 PM
Humans also gain 3 expertise from both, don't forget. Yes, the .1 is a wash for both and I agree it will make little to no difference unless you were actually comparing to a real slow weapon, but I wanted to cover as much of it as I could. I actually hadn't thought of the specialization because I've only tanked on night elves and tauren. :)

Insahnity
07-23-2010, 08:01 PM
Yeah, I had originally written in humans, but they get 3 for both maces or swords, so there is no reason to pick one or the other purely on human racials. The human part got edited out.

As for racials, it's the basis of a lot of QQ between horde and alliance, given that sometimes the top tank weapon is an axe, other times its a hammer.

proudmoore
07-24-2010, 03:23 PM
Actually Dreador, the speed difference favours some paladin abilities over others (slower means harder hitting HotR, but then you also have slower vengeance buildup on start.

That's a slightly misleading phrase - HotR scales with weapon DPS, not weapon Damage - so the speed is irrelevant. The reason that a slower weapon is slightly better is that it increases the Vengeance/Command hits that proc off weapon attacks (i.e. Hammer, Shield, Judgement). Since these procs (as distinct from those triggering from white attacks, who's overall DPS is unchanged by speed) make up a fairly minor part of a paladin's overall DPS, even a large change in speed still has a fairly small effect.

Even going from the 1.8s Last Word to the 2.6s Bloodvenom Blade (with 90 attack power bonus into the bargain), the damage of a Command proc only increases by about 15%.

I accept that this is nitpicking, since you'd already agreed that the speed was a wash.

Essentially - what matters is whether you prefer expertise or hit rating. Choose your poison on that.

Shieldie
07-24-2010, 04:23 PM
I personally use both, I use the mace with accuracy while doing lower content and 5mans for the extra hit, and I use facelifter with blood draining for tanking t10 content or soloing

Martie
07-24-2010, 05:30 PM
They are about as equal as two different weapons can be.

Both have around 80 avoidance ratings, no real difference there.
Both have similar dps - the facelifter has slightly more dps and 2 extra strength, the scepter hits slightly slower, about equal too.

So it boils down to expertise vs hit, and in about the same amounts. I'd let that determine what I use. Up to the expertise soft cap, expertise is the better threat stat, but if you are under 160ish hit, I'd advice you to use the hit weapon.

Note: The value of paladin weapon speed is a tad complicated. Slower weapons are better because seals do a percentage of weapon damage, this means that there is no difference for the seal portion of your auto attacks, but there's a difference for the seal portion of Judgement, ShoR and HotR.
On the flipside, it also takes slightly longer for seal of vengeance to reach it's full 5 stacks.

Dreadski
07-24-2010, 08:51 PM
Yeah, I had originally written in humans, but they get 3 for both maces or swords, so there is no reason to pick one or the other purely on human racials. The human part got edited out.

As for racials, it's the basis of a lot of QQ between horde and alliance, given that sometimes the top tank weapon is an axe, other times its a hammer.

Yeah that's why I like the extra HP.