View Full Version : Encouraging raid attendance during the summer months
07-19-2010, 04:20 PM
As im sure many of you are encountering a similar problem perhaps this thread can generate some useful tips on how we are all getting people to show up when there are plenty of other things we could be doing instead.
For the last 2 weeks raid attendance in my guild has dropped to levels where we can no longer guarantee 25 man raiding, the main reason is the summer, people are naturally going out with friends, going to see family on holiday or some variation of that.
Now I don't want to stop people doing that and my guild is semi casual so we don't enforce 100% attendance, but before 2 weeks ago we were getting 25 people every raid night and normally have at least 5 people on backup, now I need to figure out how to keep those guys who are still online atm happy while we wait for the guys who are on holiday to return.
SO my question to all of you guys is, how do you keep attendance up during these sorts of times?
Thanks to everyone who replies :D
07-19-2010, 04:35 PM
one word, or should I say one acronym: PUG.
Yeah, it's not the ideal solution, but this problem you have isn't just yours. It's a problem for many people as summer rolls around. Plus this time it's even more difficult with people 'retiring' until cataclysm.
Odds are you're gonna have to PUG it. If you badger your raiders too much about it, you'll only anger them and you run the risk of loosing them completely as opposed to just loosing them for the summer, only to get them back in full force with a vengeance after summer and cataclysm ships. Instead of doing that, the only sensible option really is to PUG. And PUG intelligently.
What's Pugging intelligently? It's the art of networking, which you should probably be doing anyway if you've got a larger guild. As more people hit 80 and gear up, more will want to raid, and to save yourself the strain of setting up additional groups and whatnot, networking with other guilds to take your guildies over random pug members from trade pays off.
Same basic concept here. Want a 25-man but can only muster 12 people? Say you've networked with some other GMs and Officers. You check with them, see if they wanna come and goof off and, hey! look at that! they've got 13 people who wanna roll a 25!
12+13=25 gloriously geared raiders ready to roll. Problem solved.
Now admittedly, you might not have those connections right now. You might not WANT to have them. Well, that's okay. Because Pugging is still viable. there's still lots of people out there who wanna get their 25-man done. The difference is that when you team up with another guild, managing a multi-night 25 can be done easier.
Sure, you can try tricks and bribes to get your missing raiders back, but that risks alienating them, which presumably you don't want. If they're not showing up to your raids, then clearly they're not passionate enough about it that they'd be alienated by you pugging their spot. and if they are, explain the nature of the situation patiently and remind them nicely that if they want to keep their spot, they need to be showing up. You can't get loot or down bosses if you're not there. This isn't Basketball. the 13th man doesn't count for squat. We don't raid before a live audience.
07-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Yeah I think thats probably the most viable solution, Now as you rightly pointed out I dont have the best network of friends in other guilds on my server so I think the best way to get some interest will be via the realm forums.
Do you think this is the most practical approach or do you have any suggestions based on what i can only assume is past experiences :D
07-19-2010, 05:54 PM
Realm forums are fine, but I'd also suggest doing some pugging yourself. Many GMs, Officers, and Raid Leaders tend to have alts. More than a few keep their alts unguilded so they can use them as some relaxation time from the stresses of their duties. This of course means that they tend to pug their raids, as being untagged, but raiding with your own guild...and you're on vent....and you're not on your usual toon but there's this one guy who's here and-waaaaait a minute....
Vault of Archavons are good for meeting people from around the server. They're quick and easy, and if you play your cards right they take awhile to set up so you can chat with the people who are around that don't need a summon. Other easy dungeons like OS (3 Drakes achievement naturally) or the Weekly Raid Quest can be good places as both are typically pugged unless the Weekly happens to be something like Marrowgar, which is on your natural progression-train for the week anyway.
Before you chat up people, though. A good thing to do would be roll around to places that give statistics on raiding and boss kills, World of Logs usually has some people signed up, but those may end up being the hardcore groups that may not mesh well with more casual raiders. Other sites are out there that track boss kills and attempt to track who killed them. Finding out who is around your guild's level in terms of that will give you common ground to stand on when breaking the ice. Nothing helps a weary GM or Raid Leader more than to have a chuckle about someone else's stupid raiders or to swap hilarious stories about raids gone bad.
As to how to actually suggest the idea, well that depends on what kind of person it is you're networking with at this point. If you've got an experience gap between the two of you, your best ploy may be to point out that you and many of your raiders would greatly benefit from collaborating with this person's guild and learning from their collective experience. If you're both looking to do more raiding, just toss the idea out there politely and casually. I'm sure you can imagine other scenarios. Just be polite, be patient, and don't push it. Don't ask off the bat. If you're not feeling a good connection with the person, debate on if you wanna even bother asking them. Nothing is lost by being careful with something like this. It can all turn out roses, but it can all go south and leave you worse off than you were, too.
Since you'll probably wonder about this next, I'll address the question of actual logistics. The Nitty-gritty of setting up and running the raid once you've sealed the deal.
The first raid is gonna be nerve-wracking, no doubts about that. Here's people that you've effectively pledged to work with, and unless you've made prior social introductions via Ventrillo or a special chat-channel, this is the first time your raiders are gonna be meeting their raiders.
Personalities may flare up. Be ready and able to deal with it. A good thing to do might be to inform your raiders of exactly when this lot will be joining you and your merry men of win for a round of boss-kills, and instruct them to be on their best behavior. If something does pop up, it should be noted and evaluated after the raid. People who get out of hand should be muted/kicked/disciplined like normal. It's better for you and the other guy to sit down afterwards and compare notes on personalities and problems then. It's the difference between breaking up after a shouting match, and breaking up after a semi-reasonable discussion. One leaves you feeling disappointed and hurt, but the other leaves you disappointed and hurt and your belongings being thrown out a fourth floor window by someone in a fit of rage.
In terms of fairness, be the better man or woman. Offer to let the other guy lead the raid and relegate yourself to Master Looter, or use Need before Greed to take loot completely out of the equation, at least for the first run. There's gonna be enough tension in the air to require a chainsaw, and personalities will be meshing for the first time. The LAST thing you want is disputes over loot. Do whatever needs to be done to ensure a fair, smooth, and relatively relaxed run for the first few attempts.
Before I finish rambling again, allow me to throw up one note of caution: Recognize when you're being walked on. Loot and glory are powerful motivators. If you're letting the other guy be Loot Master, and all the shards and DEs are going to his crew, a red flag should be going off in your head. There's a difference between being generous/fostering friendship, and laying down and being a doormat. Don't be the doormat. Deception can be easy when you don't see a face or don't hear a voice. Be polite and accommodating, but demand your fair share of everything. Both loot and responsibilities.
For the TLDR-inclined:
1: Use a combination of the realm forums and outside sites to identify what guilds you should be talking to. Research them. Knowing is in fact half the battle.
2: Get to know the people you're looking to affiliate yourself with as people before you pop the question. Asking right off the bat makes you sound desperate. At best they'll say no, at worst they'll say yes and turn out to be exactly the wrong kind of people you want.
3: When it comes to actual Raid-Time, run it smooth, simple, and as stress-free as you can make it. The first few times are gonna be a barometer for how the relationship between the guilds is going to work, or if it is at all. Compare notes with eachother after each raid.
4: Be honest, be responsible, be fair. Don't let people walk all over you or your raiders. Don't be the ones to walk, either.
07-19-2010, 06:12 PM
Thanks for such a detailed response, its very much appreciated :D
Ill go away and try and sort some things out, fortunately ive successfully negotiated 2 guilds merging with my own in the past so i would like to think I am a decent negotiator :P