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View Full Version : Druid DPS in Tank Spec (being a kitty in bear's clothing)



grizlee
07-14-2010, 08:26 AM
My primary spec is tank and my off spec is healing but I want to do kitty dps on occasion to play around with. Right now as I transition from T9 to T10 I'm thinking about re-gemming and chanting the T9 for Kitty gear. So I have two general questions:

1. In all out tank gear and spec, what kind of DPS can I expect to be able to manage (given good rotation etc)

2. In tank spec and T9 kitty gear, what kind of DPS should I shoot for?

TIA,
Griz

Darksend
07-14-2010, 11:46 AM
no KOTJ, no shredding attacks, and very short rips just equal no fun. Even in full BIS 264 dps gear as a tank spec you do only slightly more DPS than if you were main tanking (i can do 8-10 K in bear with a tank spec in DPS gear)

grizlee
07-14-2010, 01:32 PM
That's kind of what I was afraid of. Trying to wait to Cata to do a worgen kitty to play with but who knows, maybe I won't wait and do some kitty goodness now.

felhoof
07-14-2010, 04:52 PM
Here's a build that gets almost all the cat DPS talents and all the essential bear ones:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0ZxGGsfrzfeochuVkbA0z:

What it doesn't have is infected wounds, imp lotp (you can do that with the points in NI though), or a better demo roar. It also doesn't have imp mangle. For cats, it doesn't have NS/MS, making it do 4% less crit. That's a loss, but it's not insanely painful - and you can get good dps otherwise.

Assuming you can switch glyphs (IE, it's not a combat situation) you can do about 6% less damage than a similarly geared cat in a real cat spec. You'd have to carry around stacks of glyphs, but that's not that painful.

Khilbron
07-14-2010, 05:23 PM
Here's a build that gets almost all the cat DPS talents and all the essential bear ones:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0ZxGGsfrzfeochuVkbA0z:

What it doesn't have is infected wounds, imp lotp (you can do that with the points in NI though), or a better demo roar. It also doesn't have imp mangle. For cats, it doesn't have NS/MS, making it do 4% less crit. That's a loss, but it's not insanely painful - and you can get good dps otherwise.

Assuming you can switch glyphs (IE, it's not a combat situation) you can do about 6% less damage than a similarly geared cat in a real cat spec. You'd have to carry around stacks of glyphs, but that's not that painful.

Well, Nurturing instinct is more of a pvp talent, and doesn't see much use in the pve enviornment, and as such, those points can be placed in to imp lotp.

felhoof
07-14-2010, 05:29 PM
I use NI specifically for the HLK fight, which is why I put it in there. I did mention that you could swap imp lotp and NI if you chose. Point being that the only real loss you have of DPS is the NS/MS talent. And that hurts, but it's hardly doing 'slightly more than a bear'.

grizlee
07-15-2010, 04:09 PM
Don't think I'm ready to get rid on NS/MS but it looks like a pretty decent bear and kitty talent no? So looking at this, how much does the infected wounds help tanking really? I might take predatory instincts instead? Also might look at doing shredding attacks over iLOTP. Don't want to give away too much bearness since that is what my main job is for my guild right now.

Insahnity
07-15-2010, 04:26 PM
It really depends on what is more important, bear tanking or kitty dps. Personally, I think there is less margin for error when tanking then DPSing.

To Felhoof's build, I'd swap Predatory Instinct with Infected Wounds. The only way you could get away from that is if you have a DK with Imp Icy Touch to do the job (i.e. frost DPS DK) or a TClappin' warrior.

Felhoof, the OP is talking about t9 gear. He's not doing HLK at the moment :P. I would re-allocate NI elsewhere. Imp LotP is a respectable choice, but 2/3 Imp mangle wouldn't be out of place for a slight Bear TPS boost.

I do go kitty and bear with my same spec (and I too heal), but I focus on my bear's spec. Two things you have to accept
-Your Kitty DPS will be noticeably less. Your bear spec would only really suffer when you do hardmodes, but with the ICC buff it may be moot.
-You *have* to maintain kitty gear. I suffer a 1-2k dps loss going Kitty in bear gear (I sometimes goof around on LDW). Having said that, there are dps gains in switching to kitty form, even in bear gear, if you don't need a 2nd tank.
-If you have access to ICC10, I'd build a tank set from tier pieces, and make a cat set from ICC10 off-tier drops. They are quite well itemized for kitties.

grizlee
07-15-2010, 05:08 PM
Noticed that on the ICC10 drops (this is our second week doing it). I'm slowly doing away with the triumph gear in favor of the frost gear (had a thread on that a few weeks ago). Might have to slowly regem it to try as I have cash built up.

grizlee
07-15-2010, 07:39 PM
Ran heroic VH as DPS for a friend who just got his tank to 80. According to Skada I did 2108 dps but I'm pleasantly surprised because my priority management was terrible and wasn't behind hardly any of the targets. Gonna go read the guide on the sticky and figure out what to do with the pieces I have already replaced with frost gear and see what that does. It's fun to be kinda tri-spec :)

felhoof
07-16-2010, 12:48 PM
2100 DPS is...pretty bad.

As a cat on anything other than a boss, here's what you do:
Get SR up (I usually put a quick rake on something, then SR)
SWIPE SWIPE SWIPE SWIPE

Sometimes you'll pull aggro. You don't care. Keep swiping.

grizlee
07-16-2010, 02:26 PM
As bad as it is, I was still happy because my rotation was horrible. I haven't done kitty really at all since I leveled to 80. Plan to play around with it some and think I can easily add a substantial amount without any gear or spec changes. One thing that hurt me and I was going to start searching, I seemed to run out of energy pretty quick trying to do AOE swipes.

Insahnity
07-16-2010, 02:58 PM
As bad as it is, I was still happy because my rotation was horrible. I haven't done kitty really at all since I leveled to 80. Plan to play around with it some and think I can easily add a substantial amount without any gear or spec changes. One thing that hurt me and I was going to start searching, I seemed to run out of energy pretty quick trying to do AOE swipes.

Pop Beserk on a relatively full energy bar. You can swipe with impunity as long as beserk is up. For times when beserk is down, Tiger's fury when your bar is empty, assumming 3 of 3 KotJ.

Oh, and following felhoof's post, I feel the need to remind people of this pic, especially after you apply Faerie Fire.

http://www.thedemented.com/images/kittydpsflowchart.jpg

felhoof
07-16-2010, 04:43 PM
Pretty much for trash it should look like:
full energy bar
rake+mangle until 2+CPs
SR
swipe
...
<40 energy: TF
Swipe
Swipe
Swipe

Ideally you'll get about 6 swipes in, which usually kills everything dead. You may have to wait a few seconds to regen - hope for a lucky OoC proc.

grizlee
07-22-2010, 06:36 PM
Did a bit of kitty tonight to help out a guild Glory of the Healer achievement run and made one major discovery - I stink. Did ok with the aoe mobs (got close to 3k) but single target I just rogered the poodle and started back toward the 2k. That said, I haven't respecced or regemmed anything yet but still as a bench mark - bleck. Now it's a challenge, I guess I gotta practice the craft to get it down.

Maybe I should have put this in Halp because that's what I feel I need right now. Here's what I have that I can enchant and gem for the dps set right now...
http://www.wowhead.com/item=50206 frayed scoundrel that I recently replaced with the lethal intent.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=47248 treads of dismal misfortune that I recently replaced with the footpads of impending death
http://www.wowhead.com/item=49806 flayer's that I replaced with the frost vengeful noose

Now looking at the stats I have a question - with the stats of the upgrades often being a lot better is it even worth it?

feralminded
07-23-2010, 06:16 AM
Pop Beserk on a relatively full energy bar. You can swipe with impunity as long as beserk is up. For times when beserk is down, Tiger's fury when your bar is empty, assumming 3 of 3 KotJ.

Oh, and following felhoof's post, I feel the need to remind people of this pic, especially after you apply Faerie Fire.

http://www.thedemented.com/images/kittydpsflowchart.jpg

I remember when I started kitty 5 months ago and saw this and didn't think it could be true ... well it IS. Of course now you get 1 minute mangles but it still is ridiculously complicated.

That said when I kitty in my bear spec (like on putricide P1/P2) with bear glyphs you generally just mangle and don't shred ... that's a big difference. Ultimately they are two different specs with two different glyphs. Don't try and half-ass it, pick one and go with it. I can pull 5-6k on putricide in bear gear doing a basic cat rotation (keep up SR, and rake ... only use mangle and FB though no shredding or ripping since I'm in bear spec/glyphs ... caveat: I rip Putricide specifically before a target switch ... but in general when bear-catting I won't rip). Of course I can pull 14k in cat spec/gear. Spec and gear matter.

kungfugrip
07-25-2010, 09:45 AM
i moved this post to the cat dps discussion thread:

http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?57393-WOTLK-Cat-DPS-Guide&p=439785#post439785

kungfugrip
07-25-2010, 10:08 AM
lol damn my last post was basically an entire Feral Cat WoTLK guide, lmao. I just need to record a video of me doing it and I'm all set, hahaha.