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View Full Version : Mage Arcane Mage how much Haste? Cast Time of AB?



Karieth
07-13-2010, 09:30 AM
On my mage I have 3247 sp 767 haste and my cast time of my AB is 1.85 sec self buffed. Where am I looking to get to? Can I get my AB down to 1 sec, do I want to get to 1k+ of Haste? Currently I am mostly gemed for SP and have not gone for the socket bonus's but can easily re gem if I should be going for the socket bonus's with SP + Haste and SP + Spirit gems to get the socket bonus's.

leethaxor
07-13-2010, 09:39 AM
Have your ever heard of RAWR (http://rawr.codeplex.com/) its easy to use and is very good at modeling mage dps. If you want to try out new gems, or swap pieces of gear it can tell you if they are upgrades or downgrades. It can even optimize your gemming, and build upgrade lists.

sifuedition
07-13-2010, 09:41 AM
My arcane just dinged and so I will be following your thread eagerly =)

As a side note, is there a sp/haste cut? I looked for it at the vendor and did not see one. Is it a drp? If so, where?

Karieth
07-13-2010, 10:11 AM
Have your ever heard of RAWR (http://rawr.codeplex.com/) its easy to use and is very good at modeling mage dps. If you want to try out new gems, or swap pieces of gear it can tell you if they are upgrades or downgrades. It can even optimize your gemming, and build upgrade lists.

Yes I have and have not had any luck with it. I was not asking about gear I was asking (if you would read my thread) what is a good cast time that can I get my AB down to, and what is a good haste amount to get to. Not sure RAWR can answer a cast time question. I can enter any info I want into a program but I would like to hear from the people with the expertise in this matter a question that I don't trust a program to answer for me.

For a SP + Haste it is a Reckless Ametrine was not a able to link here for you.

Quinafoi
07-13-2010, 11:04 AM
The absolute minimum any spell with a cast time can be reduced to is 1 second effectively. The cast time of the ability can drop below 1 second, however any ability with a cast time is always on the Global Cooldown as well and the GCD has a hard minimum for spells of 1 second. So even if you cast your spell in 0.4 seconds, you have to end up waiting 0.6 seconds more before you can begin your next spell.

Haste and how it effects your cast time of abilities is a function like the following.

Hasted Cast Time = Base Cast Time / ( 1 + Net Haste Effect )

If you have a spell that takes 1.5 seconds to cast as a base cast time and the cumulative effect of all your haste buffs comes to 20% you would have a 1.25 second cast time.
1.25 = 1.5 / 1.2

The net haste effect is actually the product of all its "unique" parts. That is how much haste you actually have.

Net Haste Effect = ( 1 + Haste From Haste Rating ) * ( 1 + Wrath of Air ) * ( 1 + Improved Moonkin/Retribution ) .... - 1

So if you have 20% haste from haste rating, a shaman droping Wrath of Air, and a Moonkin in the raid with the Improved aura it would look like this...
1.2 * 1.05 * 1.03 - 1 = 0.2978 Net Haste Effect

Arcane Blast has a base cast time of 2.5 seconds.
In order for Arcane Blast to have a 1 second cast time (the minimum functionally possible) you need a Net Haste Effect of 150% or 1.5 or from the first equation...
1 = 2.5 / (1 + 1.5)

How you attain 150% net haste depends on how many haste effects you have, because they multiply by each other. It could all come from one source like haste rating, however that would require 4,919 haste rating... you're not likely to get that high anytime soon. If haste is your highest value stat, it will continue to be your highest value stat for a very long time.

Insahnity
07-13-2010, 12:20 PM
My arcane just dinged and so I will be following your thread eagerly =)

As a side note, is there a sp/haste cut? I looked for it at the vendor and did not see one. Is it a drp? If so, where?

Coles Notes

There isn't enough spell haste on gear to cap it passively, but you can hit the cap with procs. Procs to account for include Black Magic enchant, Speed Potion, Icy Veins, Bloodlust/Heroism, Power Infusion. I won't give you the answer as to where that number is, but if you look this stuff up and the definition of Haste on WoWWikki, that is enough info for you to generate your own answer. Also, as posted earlier, Rawr is your friend.

Until you are in BiS (277ish), 1 point of haste is as good as 1 point of Spell Power, assuming you don't overtly stack one exclusively at the expense of the other. This is why Haste procs and Spell Power procs are roughly the same value. From the gemming side, although they are roughly equivalent, you get 20 haste gems, 12 Spell Power/10 Haste or 23 Spell Power Gems. I would say go with either pure Spell Power (runed cardinal ruby) or Spell Power/Haste (RECKLESS prefix; Reckless Monarch Topaz, Reckless Ametrine, both orange).

Deedles
07-13-2010, 12:31 PM
http://milamber.ch/spellhastecap.html

I found this tool very useful. Input the desired spell (Arcane blast) and available buffs. 1 second is the cap, you shouldn't be hitting it unless you have a 'stars align' moment - Black Magic, Hero, Icy Veins, Speed Pot, Pushing the Limit all at once!

I stopped playing arcane but when i got around 1100 haste I stopped using Icy Veins /w heroism, as my GCD was longer than my arcane blast.

As the above poster said, Reckless and Runed. I always went Reckless in yellow sockets, Runed in Red. You need power behind your casts!
Don't gem pure haste.

IIRC: Arcane should only utilize 2 purified Dreadstones to activate the meta gem (chaotic, requires 2 blue). This is because Crit is not as valuable to arcane mages (and spirit doesn't contribute that much to crit anyway). Just make sure to pop them in the sockets that result in the biggest bonus (+9 SP Ftw).

Sky
07-13-2010, 01:30 PM
All raid buffs + Heroism=

With 2T10 bonus=812 Haste needed for 1 sec AB casts
Without 2T10 bonus= 1304 Haste needed for 1 sec AB casts


You have enough haste to have 2T10 effect 3 AB casts and 4 AB casts under Heroism, both without Icy Veins.

You have a good amount of haste.