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Ciderhelm
06-30-2010, 04:19 AM
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We'll be porting Spiritus' written guide into this thread in the future, but until then we recommend reading it here (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?67195-Halion-Encounter-Guide-Pre-Release).

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/images/snowfall/donorbanner.jpg (http://www.tankspot.com/premium.php)



Hello, and welcome to Tankspot's written encounter guide for the Halion Encounter in Ruby Sanctum. My name is Spiritus and I will be going over the abilities or this fight, as well as some basic strategy on how to approach your first attempts.

Environment, Positioning, and Pull:

(1) After clearing the mini-bosses, you will travel to the center of the room and engage Halion. While it may seem like you have a wide area to work with, shortly after Halion activates he will put up an impenetrable circular flame wall that mirrors the circle you will see on the ground. So we encounter our favorite environment shape: the circle.

(2) Because of several abilities [notably his flame breath and several "void" mechanics], you will want to create as much space to work with as possible by tanking Halion parallel to the outside of the circle, right up against the flame wall [See Figure 1].
(3) Halion has both a tailswipe and a cleave. Position accordingly.

(4) This fight requires two tanks.

(5) Starting positioning is simple enough. In fact, positioning is rather easy for the entirety of the encounter.

Halion Abilities:
Halion has three phases: Physical Realm, Twilight Realm, & Split Realm. He has a total of 45.3m HP. Enrage timer unknown [Note: this shouldn't come into play as the Halion encounter is more about control than DPS]. I will break down each phase and the abilities there-in:

Twilight Precision (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=78243)
Persistent Aura.
Halion's insight into movement between phases allows him to deal unexpected strikes, increasing his chance to hit by 5% and reducing the enemies' chance to dodge his attacks by 20%.
Halion's version of the ICC debuff. Take that gear inflation!

Tail Lash (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74531#used-by-npc)
Instant. 20yd Range. Frequency Unknown.
A sweeping tail strike hits all enemies behind the caster, inflicting 3063 to 3937 damage and stunning them for 2 sec.
Don't stand behind the boss.

Cleave (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74524)
Instant. Melee Range. Frequency Unknown.
Inflicts 75% weapon damage to an enemy and its nearest allies, affecting up to 10 targets.
Don't stand in-front of the boss unless you are the tank.



<---Phase1 [Physical Realm]--->


Phase one is a fairly straight forward DPS burn with spread out mechanics.


http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74404#icon:spell_fire_fireFlame Breath [25] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74527)[10] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74525)
2sec cast. 30yd Range. Cone angle unknown. 10-15sec Frequency.
Inflicts 26250 to 33750 [10s: 17500 to 22500] Fire damage to enemies in a cone in front of the caster [Note: Exact damage figures subject to change].
A standard conical breath attack directed towards the highest aggro target. Don't stand in-front of the boss unless you are the tank.

Fiery (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74562)Combustion (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74562), Mark of Combustion (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74567), & Combustion "Void Zone" [25] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=75882)[10] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74630)
Instant Cast. 30sec Duration. 20sec Frequency. Cleansable by magic or curse removal spells.
[Combustion "Void Zone": 40sec Duration. Variable Radius]
Engulfs an enemy target in flame, dealing 4000 Fire damage every 2 sec. Every time Fiery Combustion deals damage, it generates a Mark of Combustion (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74567) charge on the target. When Consumption fades or is dispelled, it unleashes a patch of fire [25] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=75882)[10] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74630) [read void zone] proportional to the number of charges present at the time. Either curse or magic removal may cleanse this affliction.
Though the description of this mechanic may seem confusing at first, its execution is rather simple. Every 20sec a raid member [possibly ranged only, but unconfirmed] is given the Fiery Combustion debuff which deals damage every 2sec as well as building stacks of Mark of Combustion. When the debuff is removed via magic or curse removal a void zone is created proportional in size to stacks of Mark of Combustion. The coefficient on this is unknown.

Therefore it is important for the debuffed raider to quickly move away from all players where he will "drop" the void zone via a cleanse [magic or curse]. I will go over my recommendation for void zone placement at the end of this section. NOTE: It also appears the the "dropping" of the "void zone" has a significant knockback (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74607) for all those who are in range at the time, making placement even more important.

(http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=75877) Meteor Strike (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=75877) & "X" Fire Patch
Instant Cast. Approx 6sec "travel time." 35sec Frequency. ["X" Fire Patch: Duration approx. 30sec]
Deals 18750 to 21250 Fire damage to enemies within 12 yards.
Metoer Strike is cast at the location of a random raid member [melee & tanks can be hit by this, but it is unclear if that is always active or based on the number of raiders at range]. Upon casting, the area which the target was standing will be hit with Meteor Strike, causing the damage shown above. After the Meteor Strike hits, an "X" Fire Patch will spawn which will send out four lines of fire emanating from the epicenter all the way to the outer "fire wall." Note: This is not a "perfect X" like Coldflame during Marrowgar's Bone Storm [see video]. Damage while standing in the "X" Fire Patch is unknown, but not instantly lethal [damage seems to be comparable to Coldflame, if not slightly more aggressive].

Simply put, move out of the 12yard radius and avoid standing in fire. Melee should be ready to adjust if one of the fire "tendrils" meanders to their position. Tanks must also be ready to adjust the boss if it is cast on them. Moving 12yards back should alleviate any problems.


Phase1 Positioning Strategy Overview
(1) This is my recommendation for handling Meteor Strike and Fiery Combustion. As always, the best strategy is the one that works, so feel free to adjust this to your guild's playstyle. To start, have all ranged stand at max range against the fire wall like so:


http://www.tankspot.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1610


Figure 1. Initial Phase1 Positioning


(2) The first type of ability you will encounter is Fiery Combustion. Simply have the infected raider move away from the raid like this:


http://www.tankspot.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1611
Figure 2. Fiery Combustion Positioning




(3) The second ability you will encounter is Meteor Strike. If cast at ranged, have the range group shift 15 yards to the right like so:


http://www.tankspot.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1614
Figure 3. Meteor Strike & "X" Fire Patch positioning for Ranged/Healers


Melee should be situated on the hind leg. If cast on melee, shift to the front leg like:


http://www.tankspot.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1615
Figure 4. Meteor Strike & "X" Fire Patch positioning for Melee/Healers


If cast on the tank, simply walk back 15yards out of the range of Meteor Strike. Raid adjust accordingly:


http://www.tankspot.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1616
Figure 5. Meteor Strike & "X" Fire Patch positioning for Tanks


At 75% Halion will enter Phase2 and will summon a portal that the entire raid save one tank and one tank healer must take to enter the Twilight Realm. The tank and tank healer left in the Physical realm will be responsible for holding the physical manifestation of Halion in position for Phase3.






<---Phase2 [Twilight Realm]--->


As stated, at 75% Halion will begin Phase2 by entering a portal to the Twilight Realm that all raiders save one tank and one tank healer must enter. Its a good idea to leave your initial tank in the Physical Realm, while your "OT" picks up Halion in the Twilight Realm. During this phase, Halion cannot be damaged in the Physical Realm.


"Twin Shadow Pulsars"
Beam Duration 10sec. Frequency 30sec.
The "Twin Shadow Pulsars" periodically link, creating a beam of dark energy [Twilight Cutter (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74769)] between them, causing those who cross its path to take 13,875 to 16,125 Shadow damage every second.
The first thing you should notice when entering the Twilight Realm are the two shadow orbs [which have the same model as the orbs from BPC in ICC] rotating on the outside edge of the room. 30sec after the activation of Phase2 [NOTE: not when you enter the portal], the "shadow pulsars" will link creating a beam that spans the diameter of the "room." The beam lasts for 10sec and is cast every 30sec. Basically 10sec of beam and 20sec without the beam.

Dusk Shroud [25] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=75485)[10] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=75484)
PersistentAura.
An aura of twilight energy emanates from the caster, causing nearby enemies to suffer 4500 [10s: 3000] Shadow damage every 2 sec.
Everyone's favorite damage aura mechanic. Gogo gadget raid blanket.

Dark Breath [25] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=75954)[10] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74806)
2sec cast. 30yd Range. Cone angle unknown. 10-15sec Frequency.
Inflicts 26250 to 33750 [10s: 17500 to 22500] Shadow damage to enemies in a cone in front of the caster [Note: Exact damage figures subject to change].
Same mechanic as Fire Breath except more shadow-ery.

Soul Consumption (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74792), Mark of Consumption (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74795), & Consumption "Void Zone" [25] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=75874)[10] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74802)
Instant Cast. 30sec Duration. 20sec Frequency. Cleansable by magic or curse removal spells.
[Consumption "Void Zone": 40sec Duration. Variable Radius]
Engulfs an enemy target in dark energy, dealing 4000 Shadow damage every 2 sec. Every time Soul Consumption deals damage, it generates a Mark of Consumption (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74795) charge on the target. When Consumption fades or is dispelled, it unleashes a dark explosion [25] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=75874)[10] (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74802) [read void zone] proportional to the number of charges present at the time. Either curse or magic removal may cleanse this affliction.
Almost the same as the Fiery Combustion, except more shadow-ery. The one functional difference is those caught in the radius of the "void zone" when it is dropped are sucked to the middle (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74799) instead of getting knockbacked.


[U]Phase2 Positioning Strategy Overview
(1) This is my recommendation for handling the "Twin Shadow Pulsars" & Soul Consumption. As always, the best strategy is the one that works, so feel free to adjust this to your guild's playstyle. To start, have your tank set up Halion so he is behind the path of Pulsar1 all range and melee gather behind the path of Pulsar2 like so:


http://www.tankspot.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1618
Figure 6. Phase 2 Initial Positioning


(2) Have the raid follow behind the path of the orb until it activates the beam. At this time you should have everyone go flat footed & pop heroism/BL. If executed properly, this is what your raid should look like at the beginning and the end of heroism/BL [Note you will most likely need to move a little bit counter-clockwise towards the end of heroism/BL]:


http://www.tankspot.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1619
Figure 7a. Start Heroism/BL [0sec]



http://www.tankspot.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1623
Figure 7b. End Beam [10sec]


http://www.tankspot.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1622
Figure 7c. Pulsars pass by "un-beamed" [17sec]

http://www.tankspot.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1624
Figure 7d. Pulsars begin 2nd Beam [30sec]

http://www.tankspot.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1625http://www.tankspot.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1806
Figure 7e. End Beam. End Heroism/BL [40sec]


If I am correct with this positioning and timing, you will only need to "strafe" a little in the beginning to set up heroism/BL, and then once again towards the end of heroism/BL. At the end of Heroism/BL, reset back to Figure 7a positioning and repeat if you need more time to activate Phase3 [50%]. Smoke flares and the like will make this easier. UPDATE! NOTE: When executing this strat, make sure to rotate Halion far enough clockwise so the dps/healer groups avoid crossing the Tail Lash (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74531) area.


NOTE: If you are uncomfortable using this strategy you can always just continually strafe around the room clockwise.


(3) Soul Consumption should be dropped by the wall like so:


http://www.tankspot.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1626
Figure 8. Soul Consumption Positioning


At 50%, Halion enters Phase3 and will summon two portals to the Physical Realm that a few healers and half of your DPS should take. The remainder of your raid stays inside the Twilight Realm.



<---Phase3 [Split Realm]--->


As stated, At 50% Halion enters Phase3. Half of your raid will be in the Twilight Realm while the other half will be in the physical realm. It is a good idea, if your raid is balanced, to have ranged take the portal and melee stay in the twilight realm as ranged will have more flatfooted time in the physical realm. The key mechanics are the same for those in their respective realms save one change:


Corporeality
Phases the caster between the physical and Twilight realms, altering his damage dealt and received in each realm according to his corporeality there.
Depending on how much damage is done to Halion in each realm alters the percentages of his damage done and received. This can range from equal damage done and received in both realms to 200%/400% increase in damage taken/received in one and 70%/100% decrease in damage taken/received in the other. Basically, your goal is to maintain equal DPS in both Realms by having Coporeality buff read this. (http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=74826)

For the more visual learner, this is how the mechanic generally works [numbers not exact]:

(1) Phase3 begins. Halion at 50%.
(2) Halion at 40%. Both Physical Realm and Twilight Realm responsible for 5% damage of the total 10%. Halion receives and deals normal damage in both realms.
(3) Halion at 30%. Physical Realm dealt no DPS and Twilight Realm deals all 10%. Damage done/received increased in Physical Realm, while damage done/received decreased in Twilight Realm.
(4) Halion at 20%. Physical Realm dealt all 10% while Twilight Realm stops DPS. Damage taken/received normalized in both realms.

Again, the goal is for balanced DPS in both realms. NOTE: The Corporeality buff does not "slide" on health or time benchmarks, rather on damage done ratios. I am not certain what these exact ratios are, but, for instance, when Twilight reaches 2% more total damage done than Physical, the first "phase slide" will occur regardless of time and boss health.



When Halion's health reaches 0, you win. Collect your purples and rejoice.


IMPORTANT NOTES:





(1) The key to this fight is raid positioning and proper DPS balance in Phase3 between the two realms.

(2) Make sure to leave one tank and at least one tank healer outside the portal for Phase2.

(3) Use heroism/BL in Phase2 as described above.

(4) Have Fire Aura/Totem running in the Physical Realm.

(5) Balance! Balance! Balance! Phase3 is not a DPS race, but a test on how well you can control your DPS. If one realm is dishing out more damage than the other, simply have them throttle back to maintain equilibrium on Corporeality.

(6) Corporeality "slides" based on damage done ratios, not at time or health benchmarks.


There are some interesting mechanics in this fight that make it a lot of fun. Besides, who doesn't like a little sneak peak into some Cataclysm lore?

As always, feel free to add info to this post that will further everyone's understanding of the fight.

Good luck on the Halion Encounter and clearing Ruby Sanctum!

================================================== ==================================

Check out this video which nicely shows the mini-boss abilities. Tactically, they're not very difficult, but its always good to have advanced information:

DjT57-w377Y
Special thanks to Lulia for the video!

Cek
06-30-2010, 04:51 AM
Anyone know of some good strats for the Commanders? My guild couldn't get past them ><

gabbu
06-30-2010, 04:53 AM
Yea checkout the pre-release guide by Spiritus, it has a video with mini-bosses

http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?67195-Halion-Encounter-Guide-Pre-Release&highlight=halion

Cek
06-30-2010, 04:57 AM
Thank you :)

Fudandragg
06-30-2010, 06:36 AM
Realm Third for Thaurissan. But we did it with all alts.

Amarasu
06-30-2010, 08:22 AM
Attempted this last night with a pug group and got to Halion, but could not get past phase 2. This instance may look like it is the same concept as OS, but its not. The trash mobs are a lot harder to kill. The Commanders have to be moved away from the rest of the group and be dpsed down first. The group I was in had trouble with Warborne, but had little trouble with the other 2 mini bosses. I am really looking forward to taking on RS with my guild.

Timecks
06-30-2010, 08:23 AM
Anyone know of some good strats for the Commanders? My guild couldn't get past them ><

Sap, Hibernate, tanks pull mobs to diff locations, just seperate the adds however you can. Their buff is stronger by the number of allies near by. so if all 5 are stacked on each other, then I beleive they get +100% dmg, but if you split the commander and one of the melee guys one direction and the 2 casters and the other melee another way, it is a much smaller boost.

Khilbron
06-30-2010, 08:46 AM
This is the first time i've ever had to comment on a video, I love the new tankspot intro. I also nedd to correct what Aliena said, Phase 2 starts at 75% not 70%. I will also provide some tidbits for people on information regarding 25man Heroic.

Phase 1:
Meteor Strike will spawn a Living Inferno, and multiple Living Embers will spawn, You need to have a 3 tanks for this phase. 1 Tank will pick up Halion, 1 tank will be dedicated to picking up the Living Inferno, and getting it away from everyone as quick as possible, and your final tank is responsible for the Living Embers. We found the easiest way to do this is to have a Holy Paladin using Righteous Fury, and having a DK tank, or Prot paladin stand ontop of them and use DnD, or Consecrate when the strike hits to gather up all the adds.

The Living Inferno needs to be burned down by ranged asap, it has an aura on it that does 6k-8k fire damage to everyone within 15 yards, and any Living Embers within 15 yards will continually gain a stacking buff that increases their attack speed, and damage done, as well as their health pool. So it is extremely important that they stay seperated until death.

Phase 2:
Just like normal mode, you will have floating orbs that become connected with a shadowy beam. However on heroic mode you have 4 orbs, equally spaced apart from each other. When they connect it forms a cross, basic physics here, the closer you are to the center the easier it is to avoid getting hit by the beams. While avoiding the beams, you still need to deal with Soul Consumption.

Phase 3:
cannot comment, still wiping at 55%

Most likely during all phases, the zones caused when dispelling Fiery Combustion, or Soul Consumption, are visible and affect players in both realms. So you need a coordinated placement of them so you don't inadvertantly wipe your raid.

Petninja
06-30-2010, 10:56 AM
Phase 1:
Meteor Strike will spawn a Living Inferno, and multiple Living Embers will spawn, You need to have a 3 tanks for this phase.

This is, of course, for Heroic 25 man.

Just making sure people know you don't need 3 tanks for the 10 man ^_^.

Kazeyonoma
06-30-2010, 11:08 AM
We didn't encounter any Living Inferno's or Embers in 25 man Khilbron are you basing this on PTR testing?

edit: ahh, heroic 25 man. okay, regular 25 man does not have embers. GG for reading comprehension...

Nez
06-30-2010, 11:11 AM
I thought the trash was more fun than the boss. =]
Looking forward to trying out Heroic after reset!!

Kazeyonoma
06-30-2010, 11:48 AM
yeah we spent 2 hours in there, 1 hour of which was on trash, the bosses were largely 1 shots, halion being 3 shot because we needed to explain the mechanics better, and people needing to see it for themselves. Fun fight though, can't wait till heroic.

Khilbron
06-30-2010, 12:28 PM
Heroic mode is open immediately, you don't need to kill him on normal to access heroic.

This picture will give you an idea of what heroic mode P1 looks like.
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g252/theryl2002/th_WoWScrnShot_062910_233053.jpg (http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g252/theryl2002/?action=view&current=WoWScrnShot_062910_233053.jpg)

Kazeyonoma
06-30-2010, 01:10 PM
curzy! looks fun ;D

Chamenas
06-30-2010, 01:21 PM
This encounter looks really well-designed and looks like a lot of fun. Now here's hoping that Blizzard can keep that up for 5+ bosses in each raid in Cataclysm ;)

Katfish
06-30-2010, 05:41 PM
What would be a strat for Ragefire mini boss if you don't have a hunter or rogue in your group?

Thegreatme
06-30-2010, 05:54 PM
What would be a strat for Ragefire mini boss if you don't have a hunter or rogue in your group?
Stack lots and lots of healers. or just get a rogue/hunter.

Saccade
06-30-2010, 07:53 PM
For phase 2, why does the MT stay in the physical realm if Halion disappears? Can't he/she just jump back through first?

Fetzie
06-30-2010, 08:06 PM
Trash is not faceroll, big plus. Took them long enough. Halion is overall a well designed encounter, even if we did 20 man it due to patch day woes. (we had 8 people signed not being able to install the patch for whatever reason)

The physical realm tank can stay in there to make sure he is the sole target of the newly aggroed halion in P3. don't want a healer or two having a faster PC than the tank and aggroing the boss before the tank has got the boss on his screen.

Chamenas
06-30-2010, 09:11 PM
For phase 2, why does the MT stay in the physical realm if Halion disappears? Can't he/she just jump back through first?

Sounds like an assurance thing. There's no real reason to send them through the portal since their dps is negligible. Better to have them ready to prevent an accident from happening.

Kauket
07-01-2010, 04:19 AM
Has anyone encountered taking a portal during phase 2 to 3 transition wiping the raid? We suspect someone with Soul Consumption still up clicked the portal, which made the DOT drop off and yank everyone out of position. (Unfortunately, LoggerHead doesn't have an option for RS yet, and I'm fail at remembering to log.)

Xcuse
07-01-2010, 04:26 AM
Damn you ate a lot of Fire Breaths there and were vulnerable to Tail Swipes for pretty much half the fight ^^

Either way, normal mode is pretty faceroll. The positioning of the raid inside the Shadow Realm along with people moving quick enough on Combustion / Consumption is the only part that takes a bit of getting used to.
Especially on heroic, with 4 beams in the Shadow Realm, I think it's favorable to just turn him all the time as it's pretty easy for the tank considering he can just activate "walk" instead of running and then walk in a circle during the whole encounter. If you're at the correct Proximity to the boss you'll always turn him at just the right speed for the 4 orbs to allign nicely.

Ciderhelm
07-01-2010, 04:30 AM
Damn you ate a lot of Fire Breaths there and were vulnerable to Tail Swipes for pretty much half the fight ^^
Not even worth mentioning. We frequently have normal mode encounter recordings with lots of positioning mistakes -- it's a result of finishing an encounter within a couple pulls before fully learning the mechanics. We don't wait for clean kills to publish our movies, in part because these kinds of mistakes usually serve to illustrate things for the viewers.

Xcuse
07-01-2010, 04:34 AM
Not even worth mentioning. We frequently have normal mode encounter recordings with lots of positioning mistakes -- it's a result of finishing an encounter within a couple pulls before fully learning the mechanics. We don't wait for clean kills to publish our movies, in part because these kinds of mistakes usually serve to illustrate things for the viewers.
Yea I very much agree, I'm sure I'm not the only one that has been thankful for the fact that you get your guides out as soon as possible, which is going to include one or another mistake considering it's going to be their first kill aswell. Was just striking me pretty hard just how much went wrong there. Then again, that just illustrates on how much of a push over normal mode is going to be in a very short time.

So yea, thanks for the upload ;)


On another hand, it makes me sad that the heroic encounter of this boss is pretty much over within less than 6 minutes of the pull.

Kazeyonoma
07-01-2010, 10:32 AM
hardmode is indeed challenging at least. people underestimate just how quickly the beams kill, and when there's 4, people seem to fail all over!

CatabriOnEarthen
07-01-2010, 02:03 PM
Then again, that just illustrates on how much of a push over normal mode is going to be in a very short time.

So yea, thanks for the upload ;)


On another hand, it makes me sad that the heroic encounter of this boss is pretty much over within less than 6 minutes of the pull.

I'm so glad all your raiders are so 'leet you can raid w/ one hand tied behind your back. *Some* of us are still at Sindragosa on ICC10, Normal. You are only as strong as your weakest team-member. Yes, we're recruiting, but sometimes Uncle Sam likes to haul my raiders away from me. When he pulls 1/2 the progression team, it makes rebuilding a pain. Cuz you can't recruit unless you are raiding, and you can't raid unless you recruit. And if you are in that "we have 10 man main team, and 1/2 of a 2nd" zone, that makes for some hurt feelings come raid time. Even IF they know the rules. Even IF they've known them from the get go. We've had to rebuild 3 times since ICC came out. On ER, our raid times are off the norm (that's when we can raid, folks), and why join a guild that's only 4/12 or 8/12 if you can get that far in a PuG? Oh well, we'll keep plugging away.

Goros
07-01-2010, 02:13 PM
I'm so glad all your raiders are so 'leet you can raid w/ one hand tied behind your back. *Some* of us are still at Sindragosa on ICC10, Normal. You are only as strong as your weakest team-member. Yes, we're recruiting, but sometimes Uncle Sam likes to haul my raiders away from me. When he pulls 1/2 the progression team, it makes rebuilding a pain. Cuz you can't recruit unless you are raiding, and you can't raid unless you recruit. And if you are in that "we have 10 man main team, and 1/2 of a 2nd" zone, that makes for some hurt feelings come raid time. Even IF they know the rules. Even IF they've known them from the get go. We've had to rebuild 3 times since ICC came out. On ER, our raid times are off the norm (that's when we can raid, folks), and why join a guild that's only 4/12 or 8/12 if you can get that far in a PuG? Oh well, we'll keep plugging away.

Wow. Don't take this the wrong way, but putting other guilds down because of your internal issues. I also don't really think this kind of attitude will get you any pity.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

CatabriOnEarthen
07-01-2010, 02:32 PM
Wow. Don't take this the wrong way, but putting other guilds down because of your internal issues. I also don't really think this kind of attitude will get you any pity.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

I didn't ask for pity. Everyone is "oh we did 1 shot the entire raid the first week it came out, it's too easy." We aren't the only guilds that have problems. We are actively working on ours. Mostly that means teaching people HOW to raid. I'm ok with that. I'm not ok with folks saying "oh it's so easy" implying that anyone whose group is struggling is piss poor and shouldn't be raiding. No, our raiders don't hit the top of the dps charts I see in parses. No, sometimes they don't always get out of fire. But they are trying. And when they come here (because I send them) and they see posts like "he's dead on heroic w/in 6 minutes" they can't help but feel inadequate. Sometimes it works, and they try harder. Sometimes it doesn't. And they don't re-up their subscription. I have at least 2 raiders whose first raiding experience was ICC. But it won't be their last. I'm molding them into decent raiders, and we'll conquer the content.

Your comment struck a nerve and that nerve twanged hard. It's true, we seem to attract a higher than normal military contingent. Something to do with the GM being ex-Army, I'm sure. And we support those of our guild-family that are called away to serve. It just makes it hard to fill the void, both emotionally and physically. And on our server, people who haven't cleared the content, want to be carried thru by guilds who have already done it all, not who are still trying to down the last two bosses. Makes recruiting difficult.

I wasn't putting others down as much as upset about the tone of "it's so easy a caveman can do it" that came across in your post. Lord knows I have no legs to stand on. We are a youngish guild, we've been seriously attacking content for only a little over a year. I want my folks to be proud of their accomplishments, not feel bad because they haven't defeated it all on heroic mode from day 1.

Blue
07-01-2010, 02:36 PM
I pug-healed, for 10-man, there yesterday. I must say, it was not easy, which is fine, with me, as I could see that it's not impossible. We were getting further, with each attempt, but stopped, after five or six wipes, due to time. It wasn't gear, or lack of good players...it was as has been described, in the vid...moving out, when hit with debuff, and timing it with the cleansing, was difficult--best done with audible shouts, I think. Also, as healer, having to move, and being caught too far away, with fire all around me, was not fun. And, porting into phase two took a couple of wipes to get down...the revolving orbs were a quick learn...once or twice getting caught to them, and one is pretty much "aware"...hah! Alas, never got as far as phase three. On a brighter note, I didn't think the tanks were really getting hammered very hard, by the boss, from a healing perspective. At least, not "spiky"...

I can't wait to try it, with my guild, either...of course, I'm locked out now, for the week...(darn, answered the call, from a guildie, to help out on a pug, just before the guild leader logs on, and wants to start a "probe run" on it!)

Acidbaron
07-01-2010, 03:06 PM
To keep things on topic....


Attempted it with alts, killed with mains in 10man. 5 dps, 3 healers, 2 tanks.

With 25man heroic gear it's all about getting past the part of 'learn to dodge beams' and you have it. While on my alt tank the tank healing and splitting out the healing was significantly harder, so i personally suggest since i don't think there's a real enrage timer on it, haven't seen it yet even on long attempts.

That if you're a 10man guild do it with 4 healers and 4 DPS, 2 Tanks. that way if you also balance out the dps nicely you shouldn't have to stop that often.

Blue
07-01-2010, 05:54 PM
Been looking at a few vids, of the fight, today. I saw something I'm not sure of, but which would really change the difficulty to possibly easier. It looked as though one didn't have to get very close to the portal, to enter it. Anyone else notice this? As in, if I don't have to run right up to it, I can click on it, and be in postion, upon entering? Or, was that just something I saw that was perhaps an edit of the video?

Note: It wasn't this video, as I'm at work, and haven't seen this one, yet (work won't allow it).

Darksend
07-01-2010, 07:35 PM
Heroic 10 vs heroic 25 is a little ... unbalanced? I realize it would be hard to have adds in a 10 man, but not having adds trivializes it so much.

Berzerker
07-01-2010, 09:24 PM
Make sure that the tank healer in your group takes the portal out of the shadow realm right before phase 3 starts, so they're ready to heal the tank that stayed outside.


Does the portal to get from twilight back to physical spawn before phase three starts? I didn't see it when we were in there tonight.

breaklance
07-01-2010, 09:37 PM
what do you think about insta-cleanses. I was trying to argue it could be better for hero 10 man specifically. 10 man theres more room to spread and 1 stack of debuff is like a 5 yard circle. Opposed to kids not being far enough until 3-5 stacks and giant 15-25 yard radius circles.

Acidbaron
07-02-2010, 03:05 AM
Instant cleansing means smaller circles but if you get an unlucky melee strike in the shadow realm then it would be hard for melee to dps and harder to around to avoid beams.

Same for fire zones + meteorite can screw up your entire play map.

In 10 man it might work but placing circles beter would always be beter but that fully depends on the reaction time with others and how many dispellers you have as not only do you need to run them out you also need to be in range of a dispell or you would still drop a rather large void.

morphéus
07-02-2010, 05:23 AM
Just something that i came up with for my guild as we have great trouble getting ppl not to stand in the giant laser beams :P
Same as above apart from int shadow realm you have your tank tank it at the side wall and kites it following the orb round clockwise then stop when the orbs are linked and the raid speads out behind the dragon and in between the dragona nd the middle of the room. This is the hardest part of this. After the beam stops your tank waits for the next orb to pass by him then move up with it till the beam starts again and the raid speads out in the same palce as before in realtion to the new possiton of the dragon this reduces te move in the fight a lot we found.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5296/shadowtc.jpg (http://img441.imageshack.us/i/shadowtc.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

hope that helps ppl :P

Berzerker
07-02-2010, 09:06 AM
what do you think about insta-cleanses. I was trying to argue it could be better for hero 10 man specifically. 10 man theres more room to spread and 1 stack of debuff is like a 5 yard circle. Opposed to kids not being far enough until 3-5 stacks and giant 15-25 yard radius circles.

I'd have some concern about the impact of dropping circles near the tank, and the effect of it "repositioning" the tank, so to speak.... a bad timed circle moving the tank (whether throwing him back with fire or yanking him closer with twilight) can drop a breath on all the wrong people, or move him out of healer range.

Kazeyonoma
07-02-2010, 10:00 AM
I'd have some concern about the impact of dropping circles near the tank, and the effect of it "repositioning" the tank, so to speak.... a bad timed circle moving the tank (whether throwing him back with fire or yanking him closer with twilight) can drop a breath on all the wrong people, or move him out of healer range.

or put him between a void zone and a beam = death.

Kanzer
07-02-2010, 10:34 AM
Heroic 10 vs heroic 25 is a little ... unbalanced? I realize it would be hard to have adds in a 10 man, but not having adds trivializes it so much.

I don't know if I'd agree 100%, to me the adds seem easier to deal with than 2 lasers and consumption and combustion appearing in both realms during phase 3. So while I agree it does make it easier with no adds, I wouldn't necessarily say its trivialized tons, because the adds aren't the hardest part of the hard mode.


Aaand, I never stayed in the physical realm during phase 2, when you come back out Halion just kinda sits there until someone attacks him, it was never an issue having the tank port in and then back out for us.

Arianne
07-02-2010, 10:52 AM
Corporeality meter: It displays a different meter in the different realms. So if you are in the physical/fire realm and you guys are doing too much damage, your meter will display 30% and at the same time, the people in the shadow realm will see a meter that says 70%. So if your meter is high you should DPS harder and if your meter is low, you should back off for a few seconds.

merendel
07-02-2010, 02:21 PM
The commander packs are definitely difficult. we tried several approaches including a hunter droping a trap at just the right spot to catch the commander. that sort of worked but we kept having gaps that let him get spells off. We found the best approach was to have a druid stealth up and hibernate him then run like hell toward the raid. Stealth is not strictly needed but it helps if your not sure of aggro radius. That druid can just keep the guy hibernated the whole time while the tank picks the mobs up well away from the commander to avoid acicdental breakage. Repentance also works on him if you have a ret pally.

For 10 man we used 2 ranged inside on P3 instead and told them to stay far enough apart that they wouldnt blast eachother if debuffed. This let us use a single raid healer in there to keep them and the tank up and just dispell as soon as the debuff landed and not have to try and confirm they were in a safe spot. We had an aflic lock and a hunter as those two ranged so mobility was less of an issue. 25 was a bit more dicey as there seemed to always be someone that either wouldn't move or lagged at a bad time.

Darksend
07-02-2010, 02:46 PM
I don't know if I'd agree 100%, to me the adds seem easier to deal with than 2 lasers and consumption and combustion appearing in both realms during phase 3. So while I agree it does make it easier with no adds, I wouldn't necessarily say its trivialized tons, because the adds aren't the hardest part of the hard mode.


Wait what? in 25 hard mode you do not have to dispel in phase 3?

Kanzer
07-02-2010, 03:22 PM
Wait what? in 25 hard mode you do not have to dispel in phase 3?

lolwut?

No, the void zones dropped from combustion and consumption affect both the twighlight and physical realm, so you have less space to work with. I was saying to me that mechanic and the lasers are the harder to deal with mechanics when compared to the adds in physical realm.

Acidbaron
07-02-2010, 03:35 PM
That and i believe they also grow greater in size then in normal mode.

Kazeshi
07-03-2010, 03:19 AM
Hi,

I'm new to your forum but i watched your video on Hallion and had a question that wasn't answered in the video (and although i have looked through this thread i have not seen the question posted although i could be mistaken and may have missed it). This question is mostly aimed at the 10 man version seeing as my guild is waiting till sunday to attempt the 25 man one. However the answer to my question may vary for each version due to the increase in numbers taking part in combat.

Anyway i was wondering when is the best time to pop Bloodlust/Herosim during this combat. I've been having many disagreements between guildmates on this one due to everyone having a different theory on the matter. Phase 2 you have everyone inside the twilight realm and a lot more people at risk of being killed by the lazerbeam attack from the orbs, because of this i believed it would be best to have it used then as this would get the phase completed a lot quicker and reduce the risk of people being killed in the hectic realm of phase 2 and making the overall survivability to phase 3 far greater. Although several people inmy guild has argued to use it in phase 3 to nuke down hallion as fast as possible and the raid is split in 2 and may cause issues for healers (Especially the one/s in the twilight realm as they are moving a lot). This however (in my opinion) does not assist with the need for balanced dps on both sidesas the popping of bloodlust/herosim may tilt the balance of dps in favour of either physical or twilight realms favour.

I was just wondering what your opinion was on the matter as neither group 1 or 2 of our 10 man groups have downed it yet.

Also if you have a different theory for 25 man as well it would be most useful if you could share it :)

Thank you for your time

Khilbron
07-03-2010, 04:03 AM
Heroic 10 vs heroic 25 is a little ... unbalanced? I realize it would be hard to have adds in a 10 man, but not having adds trivializes it so much.

I think they could have left the Living Inferno in, and removed the Living Embers for Heroic 10man, opposed to no adds at all.

Khilbron
07-03-2010, 04:09 AM
Anyway i was wondering when is the best time to pop Bloodlust/Herosim during this combat.

Simple answer Phase 2.

Long Answer Phase 2 because P2 is the phase that poses the most difficult time for players, dealing with Soul Consumption, and the Twilight cutters. Lusting in P2 cuts down on the time that your entire raid is required to be in that realm. If you lust in P1 you have to deal with a longer and more difficult P2. If you lust in P3 you need to make sure you have 2 shaman alive, 1 in the physical realm, and 1 in the twilight realm, otherwise only 1 realm will receive the benefit of bloodlust, and will make the fight very difficult for the other realm.

Kazeshi
07-03-2010, 04:29 AM
Thanks for the reply, thats what i thought :)

godmode
07-03-2010, 07:17 AM
An effective strat for Phase 2/3 is to have your tank try and almost line up the orb with Halion's head. This way when the beam happens, it goes from head to tail where no one should be standing anyway. The tank can then rotate Halion, following the beam/orb slowly. This keeps everyone at Halion's flanks and gives raiders some time to move.

Jirek
07-03-2010, 10:52 AM
Hey guys love the new intro and your videos have always been helpful, keep it up!

For my guild I was the shadow tank in phase two and what I found that worked easier for us was to put everyone on the bosses left flank and keep him stationary until beams are about to come out. I would then make sure to rotate him before beams came out in order to get the orbs at one o' clock and seven o' clock from my perspective in order to keep the beam away from where the raid was stacked. Once beam comes out rotate accordingly, after the beam is gone leave him stationary until the orbs do a full revolution back to the same position, if the beam is coming sooner than anticipated you can always start rotating halion early.

Our guild got the 13th server kill (10 man). Not bad for a bunch of newly gathered server transfers :cool:

Squishei
07-03-2010, 11:59 AM
My guild completed this but was just wondering something about consumption/combustion. The magic part of the debuff is the DoT component and the curse part is the stacking part. So...when I cleansed the curse it seemed the stack decreased by one and then dropped effectively making a smaller void zone. Just something i noticed, can anyone confirm/deny?

Imvran
07-03-2010, 02:04 PM
What resolution are Aliena Playing with ?? anyone knows ?

Ajire
07-04-2010, 05:34 PM
So we had our first attempt at the ruby sanctum tonight and we got to the first mini-boss, Baltharus the Warborn. And next thing that happens is that this guy makes a minced meat meal of our 55k warrior tank in less than 2 seconds (no I am not exaggerating here), even with three healers.

I have a gut feeling that the Enervating Brand (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74502) mechanic was somehow involved in our tank's untimely demise, but hardly any guides seem to mention how to deal with it (eg. Wowhead's article (http://www.wowhead.com/npc=39751)). They are not even consistent as to what the exact mechanic is: I've seen claims that it not only reduces damage dealt but armor too.

So, what is that is so blatantly obvious or insignificant about this mechanic that noone deems it important enough to mention?

Also, assuming that wowhead's description of the mechanic is true, I see two ways to deal with it: Either have the raid stack fairly closely togther and have the affected players move away, once they get the debuff or spread out (12+ yd) the raid at all times. Anyone have some experience as to what works?

Chamenas
07-04-2010, 06:06 PM
I'll be making a video guide about the trash encounters and mini-bosses. It will not be an Official Tankspot guide unless Ciderhelm wants it to be, but I decided it was worth it to make the guide anyways because a lot of people are having difficulty with the trash.

In the interim:

On the Baltharus, you want to make sure your melee are 12 yards away from the tank, so stand at max hitbox range behind the boss. If you're unable to arrange this, have affected melee run away as soon as they get it. As long as healer and ranged are 12 yards away from melee and the tank they should be fine. The other ability, Blade Tempest, could also be responsible. Your healers have to give the tanks extra heals through this, and your tank may want to pop some CDs as well.

KnThrak
07-05-2010, 01:49 AM
Just have the affected person run away from everyone else. The issue is Enervating Brand hitting others (doesn't matter who it hits), stacking a +Buff on Baltharus.

We had the people with the Brand run away and it worked easily, it just gets messy when you got 3 Enervating Brands up at the same time later on. :)



Savianna is easy enough, all stand in a large semicircle, whoever gets the marks runs out to the back (ranged/healers) or sides (melee/tanks).



General was... pain. In 25man that is. We could barely keep up with the adds (granted we were only 21 at that point), and the fire nova from them hurts a ton even with resist buffs up. At least that's his only move, kill the adds fast enough, keep killing him, takes a fair while.



Halion's fight seems to be 99% about the Shadow Cutter beam. If your raid can handle it you'll kill him even if you screw up the Consumptions/Combustions and the Meteors.

Pek
07-05-2010, 05:08 AM
Lulia and Knthrak are absolutely correct. The 2 abilities that cut tanks down on Baltharus are the stacking Enervating Brand and his Blade Tempest ability. We quickly worked out that those affected with the Brand needed to run out at least 12 yards, and I also popped a Shield Wall/Last stand/called for a cool down for safety on his Blade Tempest. Do those things and you guys will be sweet.

For General, we found that cc'ing the adds and a straight up Lust and burn on the boss was the best way for us to handle him. Druids and Hunters kept one side hibernated and trapped while the other side was controlled by our Priests and Locks with their fears. I had our kitty change to bear and taunt of me at 3 stacks of Sunder and we were able to beat him quite comfortably.

The only other thing I can think of that might need a little bit of getting used to for General, was that the current tank must not be feared, or the next highest threat person will be 1 shot. I popped Berserker Rage before the fear lands to combat it but also asked our priests to fear ward me for safety. Hope it helps.

Chamenas
07-05-2010, 09:36 AM
Put up a video (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?68675-Ruby-Sanctum-Video-Guide-for-Trash-and-Mini-Bosses) in the General section which covers trash and mini-bosses.

Ciderhelm
07-05-2010, 09:24 PM
Added 25-man normal. 25-man hard modes will be soon, likely.

Chamenas
07-05-2010, 09:29 PM
Added 25-man normal. 25-man hard modes will be soon, likely.
Sweet, thanks Cider!

Ciderhelm
07-06-2010, 03:18 PM
We've added in the 25-man hard mode and will be porting Spiritus' guide directly into this immediately. :)

Darksend
07-06-2010, 03:26 PM
I do believe hand of freedom no longer works unless given by a ret paladin.

Chamenas
07-06-2010, 03:32 PM
Who's the new author?

Papapaint
07-06-2010, 03:33 PM
I do believe hand of freedom no longer works unless given by a ret paladin.

Ah, I think our ret paladins always do it anyway.

Edit: I'm noticing that my name is showing up as Papapain, and I am seriously considering a name change now >_>

Chamenas
07-06-2010, 03:34 PM
Why would they restrict Hand of Freedom?

Kazeyonoma
07-06-2010, 04:14 PM
Nice hardmode guide, and very professional/soothing voice Papapain. ;P

Papapaint
07-06-2010, 04:17 PM
Ah, I think our ret paladins always do it anyway.

Nix that, our holy paladin was doing it on 10m. I'm fairly sure it does work.

Darksend
07-06-2010, 04:18 PM
It was hotfixed, so if you killed it before friday you would not notice (we noticed it during our 10 man before we even attempted 25)

Chamenas
07-06-2010, 04:20 PM
It doesn't make sense for them to hotfix a valid tactic like that though. Oi.

Papapaint
07-06-2010, 04:21 PM
It doesn't make sense for them to hotfix a valid tactic like that though. Oi.

It sort of makes sense in a terrible way. Soul consumption management during spinning death ray thingie was a huge learning curve.

Chamenas
07-06-2010, 04:22 PM
Is the person affected by the soul consumption slowed too? I mean, they have no choice but to be in it.

Mr.Winkle
07-06-2010, 05:09 PM
Killed 10man Normal after a few lazer wipes.

Regarding 10man hard:

What's the required raid DPS to beat the enrage timer?

Does the AOE shadow aura increase in severity in 10 hc?

Sulndar
07-06-2010, 09:53 PM
I have read this thread and I have seen numerous strats for how and when the raid should follow the orbs in phase 2/3 shadow. However I have not seen anyone mention the turning speed of the orbs. I have only done this fight in normal mode 10 man so someone who does not have a casual guild will need to check my findings in the other modes.

I observed that the orbs rotate with a speed of 1 revolution every 40 seconds. This means that each orb will travel 180 degrees in 20 seconds. The duration of the "off" (No laser) phase is 20 seconds. This means that when the laser turns off it will turn on again when all the orbs have moved exactly 1 half revolution. Since in both normal and heroic the orbs are in pairs, this means that the orb positioning will be exactly the same when the laser turns on again.

Therefore, once you get the laser positioning that best suits your guild, shift with it while the lasers are on. Then as soon as the lasers turn off have the tank stop in his tracks. You get 20 seconds of dps with no running as the orbs position themselves for you for another laser phase. The orbs will turn on again in exactly the same positions you left them and you can shift the dragon and the raid with them again.

My guild found this very helpful to increase the raid dps in the shadow realm. Once again, I will need someone to corroborate this finding in the other 3 difficulty modes.

Deque
07-07-2010, 05:53 AM
It's the same way in 25m as well, and I assume heroic as well. It's a pretty good point to those that are constantly moving him. :)

Lachesis
07-07-2010, 10:59 AM
Mommy, why is the paladin tank clicking?

Mr.Winkle
07-07-2010, 11:39 AM
Mommy, why is the paladin tank clicking?

Lol yeah i noticed that too.

I wonder if he did it just for the video...tongue in cheek so to speak. On the other hand maybe's he's a clicker, who just ahppens to be a really good main tank.

I must admit i wouldn't fancy tanking Halion in the shdow realm as a clicker.

Fwibble
07-08-2010, 06:10 AM
Anyone know of some good strats for the Commanders? My guild couldn't get past them ><

Yes as mentioned before ccing the Commander and getting him at least 8 yards away from the rest of the pack is key, however we found ourselves having problems getting Hibernate to stick and sap just getting the rogue killed. Wyvern Sting, however, worked like a charm!

Fwibbz

Chamenas
07-08-2010, 06:14 AM
Simply pulling them away will work as well. With the mortal strike and the buff the commander gets for the others being near him, he'll easily wipe any tank trying to grab them all. But if one tank takes the commander and pulls it away as shown in the video, you should have a much better time at it if you can't get the cc to work.

Akeber
07-08-2010, 07:01 AM
Worked on HM10 on my alt priest yesterday. BoF from a holy pally (the only pally we have in the group) had no effect on the consumption slow. I'll be running it this weekend on my pally tank as well and I'll see if it works, but it would be odd for it to work for some specs and not others.

royalite
07-08-2010, 09:35 PM
With running through the dragon on hard mode, how did the raid deal with tail whip? Is there a sweet spot or?

Chamenas
07-08-2010, 09:52 PM
With running through the dragon on hard mode, how did the raid deal with tail whip? Is there a sweet spot or?

The raid is constantly on his side, and thus, never behind him.

swelt
07-09-2010, 01:42 AM
Tried the hard mode a bit yesterday, was a bit unclear on the precise sequence of events in the transition. How long do you wait before sending in a tank + healers to the shadow realm (is there a particular reason to rush) and to what extent do you need to clear up the embers/infernos. We were having enough trouble getting to 75% that it was hard to tell quite what was going wrong at that point, but it seemed like there was probably a trick to it (perhaps delaying 75% until a previous set of adds were cleared up). Any tips?

Mr.Winkle
07-09-2010, 03:22 AM
Tried the hard mode a bit yesterday, was a bit unclear on the precise sequence of events in the transition. How long do you wait before sending in a tank + healers to the shadow realm (is there a particular reason to rush) and to what extent do you need to clear up the embers/infernos. We were having enough trouble getting to 75% that it was hard to tell quite what was going wrong at that point, but it seemed like there was probably a trick to it (perhaps delaying 75% until a previous set of adds were cleared up). Any tips?

You want to enter the shadow realm ASAP since you're working against an enreage timer. The large adds should be tanked by the MT and should generally be DPS'd down along with the boss. The smaller adds need rounding up an Aoeing down.

obiwayne
07-09-2010, 12:19 PM
The way my guild handled the mini-bosses was as follows:

Baltharus: We pulled him to the large open area south of where he starts. The OT stood at maximum taunt range away, going towards the portal, while the MT kept him facing the wall back there. Everyone else was spread out behind him. The OT taunted him the minute he did his whirlwind thing so he'd run straight at the OT and not hit anyone else. When there was a clone, both tanks would basically switch whatever Baltharus they would be tanking whenever one would do a whirlwind (e.g. if I was tanking the real one, and the clone did a whirlwind, I would taunt the clone and the OT would taunt the real one). Obviously all DPS was on the real one (marked by a skull) at all times.

Saviana: Tanked her facing the pool of water, and that was really it, just people who were marked had to run away. Easiest of the three IMO. I'm not sure if she resets aggro after she flies up so just to be safe I would taunt+Avenger's Shield to make sure I picked her back up.

Zarithrian: Hardest of the three IMO. We basically had one tank on the boss, one to pick up the adds which proved VERY hard since one comes from each end of the area, and both are casters so they don't have to come near you. We had a bit of trouble with the taunting off stuff since the tank on Zarithrian would have to AOE to pick up the casters, and the tank on the adds would have to break them to run to Zarithrian. We managed to do it but it was very messy, and I'd appreciate any better tips :)

Unfortunately for all that, we only got into Phase 2 on Halion himself since people were being cleansed before running to the end so there were void zones basically right under the boss.

Quinafoi
07-09-2010, 01:33 PM
it was very messy, and I'd appreciate any better tips :)

http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?68675-Ruby-Sanctum-Video-Guide-for-Trash-and-Mini-Bosses
Decent discussion over there about the trash and mini bosses.

Penlowe
07-11-2010, 06:07 PM
:ahem:
If you have issues with a guide, please report it or PM the guide author and any Moderator. Guide threads are for discussing the topic of the guide and the fight or technique specifically sited. Unsolicited critique is best kept private.

Nyklos
07-12-2010, 10:07 AM
We were having some issues with our first attempt on normal mode in RS 10. I'm wondering if anyone can confirm or disprove this theory I came up with. The basis for this theory assumes two thing. The orbs always spawn in the same place at the start of phase 2. The orbs proceed 180 degrees around the perimeter every 20 seconds.

I believe I found a secret to the beams and moving around. I watched the video's carefully and believe the beams are on an exact timer. If the illustrations are correct and accurate more than just an example, then I also believe the orbs take exactly 20 seconds to rotate 180 degrees around the circle. This means that the beam always starts on a line exactly where the last one ended. This means the beams are completely predictable.

I propose the following strategy then...

The first beam will start when the orbs are lined up North and South. It will end when lined up with East and West. Because the orbs are moving clockwise, if the raid positions in the Northwest corner, they will not have to move at all for the entire beam duration.

The second beam starts when the orbs are lined up East and West and ends on North and South. So if the tank aligns Halion's head to the West/Southwest, and the raid positions in the lower Southwest corner, again...they will not need to move to avoid the beam.

On the third beam, it will be just like the first. So the tank moves Halion's head to the North/Northwest and the raid repositions in the Northwest corner again. From here on it's just alternating between the Northwest and Southwest corners. If my perception and calculations are correct, this is all that's needed to stay clear of the beams.

Theotherone
07-12-2010, 11:03 AM
The way my guild handled the mini-bosses was as follows:


Zarithrian: Hardest of the three IMO. We basically had one tank on the boss, one to pick up the adds which proved VERY hard since one comes from each end of the area, and both are casters so they don't have to come near you. We had a bit of trouble with the taunting off stuff since the tank on Zarithrian would have to AOE to pick up the casters, and the tank on the adds would have to break them to run to Zarithrian. We managed to do it but it was very messy, and I'd appreciate any better tips :)

Unfortunately for all that, we only got into Phase 2 on Halion himself since people were being cleansed before running to the end so there were void zones basically right under the boss.

For 10 man, which is all I've cleared, we just zerg'd Zarithrian. We used 2 DKs (Warrior and DK, the first time in there when we just did the mini bosses), I took the adds (I was in Frost Spec) and the other DK took the mini-boss (Blood Spec). Gathering the adds was not an issue DnD in the middle, the right one (as we faced the boss) walked into the DnD and the left one I Death Gripped into the DnD, then dropped a Howling Blast on them, then Blood Boil - Mind Freeze one Strangulate the other; rinse and repeat. The other DK just held the mini-boss, used cool downs and we burned him.

I strongly doubt this will work on heroic. But we kind of zerg'd the first time by accident since I only heard "take the adds" and no one said "taunt off"; so I just took the adds.

Quinafoi
07-12-2010, 11:12 AM
@Nyklos
The basic strategy for the twilight realm is simple. Let the orb pass you while it is inactive and start kiting to chase it. The first one you will likely end up chasing longer depending on your initial position when you first enter. While it is active, kite the boss chasing the cutter. When it deactivates, stop kiting and wait until they flip all the way around and resume kiting after the next other orb passes you. It takes a little getting used to but this is significantly easier on both the raid and the tank than trying to flip the dragon back and forth risking the raid being hit by breaths and cleaves.

Another reason you actually want to kite the boss the correct way is because of the void zones. You will almost always drop one during a cutter and one when the cutter isn't active. If you only have two positions you are standing in, you are always standing in a void zone. If you actually kite the boss around the circle as intended, the void zone on the other end is cleared before you get back to that point in your path.

Quinafoi
07-12-2010, 11:13 AM
I strongly doubt this will work on heroic.
Mini-bosses do not have a heroic mode.

Theotherone
07-12-2010, 11:25 AM
Mini-bosses do not have a heroic mode.

Cool, so the whole dungeon doesn't become heroic but only the final boss, didn't realize that.

Hartzell
07-12-2010, 09:04 PM
I'm in need of some clarification on the phase 2 transition for both 10 an 25 Hard mode.
I'm having people dieing from cleave as they're entering the shadow realm. What should we do to prevent this? I tried moving him out a lil bit, but that ends up screwin me over with the beams.

Mr.Winkle
07-13-2010, 02:42 AM
Regarding 10man hard:

What's the required raid DPS to beat the enrage timer?

Does the AOE shadow aura increase in severity in 10 hc?

10man hc hp = 15.3million

Not sure about AOE dmg yet.

Mr.Winkle
07-13-2010, 02:53 AM
I'm in need of some clarification on the phase 2 transition for both 10 an 25 Hard mode.
I'm having people dieing from cleave as they're entering the shadow realm. What should we do to prevent this? I tried moving him out a lil bit, but that ends up screwin me over with the beams.

Regardless of Halions postion at the end of P1 he will be standing in the centre of the circle facing the entrance to the instnace in P2. If people are aware of this they can enter in such a away that they're not running into his head.

royalite
07-13-2010, 06:20 AM
The raid is constantly on his side, and thus, never behind him.

Watching the RS hard mode video, the raid is on one side of the dragon. When the meteor falls, the raid runs through the dragon.

We tried this strat. Our raid was not behind the dragon but on the side as shown in the video. Whenever we ran straight through the dragon we got stunned. I am wondering if there is a spot along the side of the dragon that is ideal to run through where you don't get stunned or cleaved or if the stun was just dealt with as part of the strat.

sakkdaddy
07-13-2010, 06:31 AM
How are you splitting up the healers and dps on heroic mode, and what general dps benchmarks are you using? Based on our experience so far, I would ideally go with 6 ranged dps and 4 melee with strong cleave abilities in the physical realm, 5 melee in the twilight realm, 3 tanks, 7 healers. Because we aren't such a melee heavy guild though, I've been sending in a few of our more mobile ranged dpsers (affliction warlocks, shadow priests) into the Twilight realm for Phase 3 as well to make sure we have enough cleave damage on the fire spawns in the Physical realm.

How many ranged dps should we expect it to take to kill each Infernal? It looked like we could mostly ignore the small adds and let passive AoE damage take care of them in phase 1, and shouldn't be much of a problem in phase 3 either with a little more focus on AoE damage.

In phase 3, I split the groups with 10 in the Twilight Realm (1 tank, 4 healers, 5 dps) and 15 in Physical (2 tanks, 3 healers, 10dps).

Chamenas
07-13-2010, 09:32 AM
Watching the RS hard mode video, the raid is on one side of the dragon. When the meteor falls, the raid runs through the dragon.

We tried this strat. Our raid was not behind the dragon but on the side as shown in the video. Whenever we ran straight through the dragon we got stunned. I am wondering if there is a spot along the side of the dragon that is ideal to run through where you don't get stunned or cleaved or if the stun was just dealt with as part of the strat.

Run closer to the front? I've run through just fine without getting hit by the tail swipe.

Kazeyonoma
07-13-2010, 09:57 AM
Run closer to the front? I've run through just fine without getting hit by the tail swipe.

Same here, the only stunning component that Halion does is his tailswipe so if they are running "through" him and getting knocked down, they're running to close to his tail.

Yesitis
07-13-2010, 10:15 AM
After our second week trying hard mode, we decided to use Heroism on P1 so we get only two infernals.
P2 is just avoid mistakes, we left 1 healer and 1 tank above.
But our problems comes on transition to P3 when the tank (warrior) is most of the times 2 shotted or healers cant keep him up for longer even chaining cooldowns, shield wall, guardian spirit, last stand, trinkets, guardian spirit again and so on. The tank is full 277

I checked as all dps is dowsntairs, most of the times upstairs we get a 10 or 15% dmg increase instantly.

So r we doing something wrong?? How we can improve tank survival, should we stop dps downstairs untill dps is balanced on both realms??

Kazeyonoma
07-13-2010, 11:00 AM
if you're not hitting enrage timers, there's simply no reason to try to explode so fast during that transition. If that's where your warrior is dying as he's trying to get set up with only 1 healer just have your DPS hold until you're set up. trying to edge out any dps like that prematurely just means they'll have to stop dps'ing at another point in the fight to let the top catchup anyways, so whats the point? Also make sure your healer outside is pre-healing as the transition hits, if he/she waits till the dragon spawns and starts wailing on your reality tank he's gonna die before she gets off a heal.

Sulndar
07-13-2010, 01:44 PM
We were having some issues with our first attempt on normal mode in RS 10. I'm wondering if anyone can confirm or disprove this theory I came up with. The basis for this theory assumes two thing. The orbs always spawn in the same place at the start of phase 2. The orbs proceed 180 degrees around the perimeter every 20 seconds.

@Nyklos - This observation and strategy has already been posted on page 4 of this thread.

Denekawa
07-16-2010, 06:34 AM
Okay I was assigned to tanking Halion in Phase 2 for the first time last night and found it difficult to know where the beam was going to appear since I could only see one of the Orbs when it wasn't directly in line with the boss. This is 25M normal mode, not hard mode.

Basically I jump through the portal and pick up the boss directly where it stands. I stand almost literally beneath it so that the boss rotates dead-center. Right now I'm trying to keep the orb on the tail side as close to the right side of Halion's tail (as I am looking at it) as I can keep it so that the beam runs directly through the boss length-wise. It is often so tight that I literally end up stepping into the beam because it's right next to me in the direction that I am moving her. The beam pops and literally in a step, I'm in it.

I'm guessing my approach offers zero room for error, so I was hoping the successful tanks could help me out here with their approach. Do you set up your camera for a top down look at the fight so that you can see both orbs or are you leaving your camera set up like you would for trash?

Basically right now all the wipes are due to me stepping into the beam because it pops just ahead of me and I step right into it when it does.

All advice appreciated.

Fwibble
07-16-2010, 07:43 AM
Okay folks,

So we've been making a couple of goes at this a week since it opened and we are having some serious problems with the transition to Phase 2. As in we aren't living long enough to even worry about the cutter and proper positioning and all.

Basically what's happening is as soon as phase 2 starts our MT is jumping in the portal and grabbing aggro. Following him nearly directly are the healers. as soon as the healers start to dematerialize, the dps are jumping in too. And then we are dead.

The healers are saying that by the time they appear in the Shadow, the raid is down so much health that catching up is impossible, or the tank is dead, or both. And we are talking fractions of seconds difference between when they jumped in. Lag may be an issue because I know that even though the healers left before me, I'm getting in there before them sometimes.

Parsing out the combat log has been tricky as I can only see what happens up to my own death when I get kicked out to the Normal Realm, but up to that point the only damage I'm seeing on people comes from the raid wide aura. And maybe a breath attack on the Tank.

We use a disc priest and a resto shammy for heals and they are both very very good in general. I mean, these guys own ICC, I can't understand why they'd have a problem with this.

It seems like there is a very very simple "DO X then jump in" thing we are missing that will keep us alive long enough to get into position and all, and I have a sneaking suspicion that that X thing needs to be done by the heals. anybody have any ideas what X might be?

Thanks
Fwibbz

Mr.Winkle
07-16-2010, 07:53 AM
They AOE damage in the shadow realm isn't that severe, assuming your DPS are entering on full HP (which they should be), then it'd take 10 seconds or so, maybe more, for the aoe to kill them off.

Does the tank immediately begin turning the dragon when he enters? Maybe everyone gets cleaved on entry. I've seen that happy once or twice to 1 dpser, but certianly not the whole raid.

Mr.Winkle
07-16-2010, 07:55 AM
Right now I'm trying to keep the orb on the tail side as close to the right side of Halion's tail (as I am looking at it) as I can keep it so that the beam runs directly through the boss length-wise. It is often so tight that I literally end up stepping into the beam because it's right next to me in the direction that I am moving her. The beam pops and literally in a step, I'm in it.


This may sound slightly obvious but why not just give yourself a little more room to breath? I mean the raid have quite a lot of space to play with, giving yourself a little more leeway on the cutter will not detimentally affect the raid.

Fwibble
07-16-2010, 08:01 AM
They AOE damage in the shadow realm isn't that severe, assuming your DPS are entering on full HP (which they should be), then it'd take 10 seconds or so, maybe more, for the aoe to kill them off.

Does the tank immediately begin turning the dragon when he enters? Maybe everyone gets cleaved on entry. I've seen that happy once or twice to 1 dpser, but certianly not the whole raid.

We did have the porting in right into the dragon's face problem a few times, but we solved that one by giving the tank a few seconds head start into the Shadow.

I really think its a lag issue or something because it seems to be taking a loooong time for some of us to get into the shadow. I mean I'm leaving Normal Realm basically last and getting in there close to first and by the time I can see the dragon I've got half health.

Quinafoi
07-16-2010, 08:02 AM
You should not have to actually wait for the tank to click the portal and enter the twilight realm. It's their job to get in there as fast as possible. Even if you beat the tank in, the dragon does not attack for a few seconds. This isn't like Sunwell where only one could go through the portal at a time and order is important. While the tank and healers getting in fast is important, it's the jobs of each individual to get in fast and start performing their role. The only people who have to actually wait are DPS for a moment while aggro is established, but at that time DPS can already be in the twilight realm getting into position so they are ready to begin DPSing as soon as aggro is established.

There is only one exception to this. If your twilight realm tank gets the debuff right as the phase transition is occuring and needs to move away from the boss to drop the void zone. This is the only reason you should ever delay entering the twilight realm because the tank had to move away from where the portal is. At any other time they should just be entering immediately, along with anyone else going.

Nyklos
07-16-2010, 05:25 PM
@Nyklos - This observation and strategy has already been posted on page 4 of this thread.

Oops. Sorry. I must have skimmed it too fast.

lakjehboh
07-16-2010, 11:12 PM
Just a quick note, in 10man Halion "enrages" at 8mins. Our tanks got 1 shotted with 50% corporeality everytime at 8mins when we do it with 4 heals. Finally, got it down after we have a priest go shadow. Tho the DBM doesnt have the timer for enrages.

obiwayne
07-17-2010, 05:56 AM
My guild continues to have problems with this fight, trying it maybe twice a week for 4-5 hours total (I'm tempted to just say we should indefinitely extend our raid lockout until we down him, since the minibosses and trash are rather annoying and not worth the effort for 3 Frosties). We have gotten to Phase 3 in the past, but often end up dying towards the end of Phase 2. So I'm trying to clarify some things that we might be missing:

1) At the start of Phase 2, one tank and one healer remains outside the portal and just sits around twiddling their thumbs until Phase 3, correct? This is how we've done it but last night one of our tanks that jumped in was saying he was getting hit for massive damage from Halion's breath due to not having the second tank standing on top of him. However, I checked my own logs for the second after he had to run away with the debuff (this was in Phase 1) and didn't see a difference in damage.

2) Can it be verified that he does NOT attack for a few seconds when you zone in? We've had a lot of problems where the tank has gone in, turned the dragon, DPS and heals have jumped in and zone in right in front of him = cleave = dead. Is it feasible for EVERYONE to just zone in at the same time and get in position, and not touch the dragon for a few seconds until the tank taunts/pulls and gets him positioned right?

3) We have a fair bit of coordination issues with regards to people running out of range of the healers with the debuff to be cleansed (I assume they run the opposite way from the rest of the raid), and people not watching the orbs properly. Any tips on this? If I'm tanking inside one thing I tried last night that seems to work well is to turn on walk and as soon as an orb passes me by a few feet I start walking in a circle around Halion rotating him, and rely on everyone else to follow so they don't end up near his claws/tail. Basically I start rotating him as soon as I see the orbs moving, and stop rotating him after the cutter ends to give DPS a few seconds to go all out on him.

It seems like this fight is almost entirely coordination, as opposed to any real tactics. We've had people screw up and be in the wrong place when the orbs spawn, and half the raid dies instantly from it. Or people who spawn right on top of Halion and end up getting tail smacked or cleaved somehow. Once, I think he debuffed the tank in that second or two before everyone else zoned in, and when they came in there was this HUGE shadow void (almost the whole length of the area) right under Halion that killed everyone in short order.

Quinafoi
07-17-2010, 12:17 PM
1. None of the bosses attacks are a Meteor Strike format, even the Meteor. None of them split damage to all targets in the attack. The tank in the twilight realm will take more damage in general than the tank in the normal realm because of the addition of the shadow damage aura. The stronger tank is usually the ideal selection for the twilight realm. Other than the shadow aura, damage between the two realms on the tank is almost identical until phase three where the the buff can cause him to deal more damage on one side than the other.

2. The boss won't become active automatically for about 3 seconds when zoning into the Twilight Realm, but will immediately activate the moment someone engages it. Everyone that is going in should jump in immediately, however DPS should not start on the boss until the tank has it and instead focus on making sure they are in position. As the tank will be pulling clockwise, all healers and DPS can start by moving counter clockwise just to make sure they aren't in front of the boss and get cleaved. Being hit by the tail is far preferable to taking a cleave of breath. Once the tank has control of the boss you would make sure to be in the proper position along the bosses flanks.

3. In the twilight realm everyone should be in melee with the boss with the exception of hunters likely. The general rule is to always try to drop the debuff behind the boss. So during the kite the boss is kited away. Heroic mode makes it significantly more difficult. If a person at range gets the debuff though they shouldn't run to the edge but rather be clensed in the middle on normal so that it isn't in the kiting path. The people in melee have it clensed behind the boss so that you are kiting away from it and it will not be active by the time you complete one full cycle around the circle.

fr0d0b0ls0n
07-20-2010, 11:20 PM
We are having a few problems with Halion 25 Heroic, specially with the adds.

How many people and wich classes do you use for aoe'ing the adds? What kind of tank? He holds aggro good enough?

Darksend
07-21-2010, 02:42 AM
Druids are by far the best add tank when it comes to holding threat (because of swipe spam) but as long as you have at least 1 rogue any tank should be fine. People really need to be grouped so they funnel into the tank.

Phonic
07-27-2010, 06:12 PM
Hi, in the 25-man Hard video... from the POV of the fire add tank. Can you tell me what addon he is using for the nameplates? It was pretty cool to see that the nameplate turned green after he got aggro. Please let me know if you can. Thanks!

Fledern
08-07-2010, 04:05 PM
While tanking 10man normal tonight, the boss seemed to be a lot easier and a little check showed a surprise:

Twilight Precision has gone bye bye. FYI. No idea if it's still there in heroic though.

On the commander packs, we used to kite the commander away 100 yards. That would normally outrange his buffing shout. Apparently not anymore. Also i noticed that on my dk i can solotank a commander with zero healing. The DeathStrike selfheal is greater than his strikes. Another fyi.

TheYanger
08-14-2010, 02:22 AM
Druids are by far the best add tank when it comes to holding threat (because of swipe spam) but as long as you have at least 1 rogue any tank should be fine. People really need to be grouped so they funnel into the tank.

If the option is there, DKs are definitely the best in terms of both threat and survivability (Since the adds deal entirely magic damage)...Any tank will work, but the hassles associated with paladins and warriors probably aren't worth it. Still, a DK can easily spec for full out magic reduction/AE threat and completely beast out on the adds. I do it without any tricks most of the time and can easily take out 30% of the adds health on my own, there's also the important benefit of Ebon Plaguebringer for your locks or mages or whoever is actually AEing them.

Not a matter of tank envy, DK's are just absurdly good at this.

Yodiggidy
08-14-2010, 05:27 PM
What UI is the first 10 man video where the girl explains it?

Thank you

Mikewoo
08-18-2010, 04:23 PM
This whole raid is a big pain for healers!

pyxio
08-18-2010, 06:07 PM
Hi, is the bump/grip effect affects both realms in heroic (10M) P3? Same question for the snare effect..
thanks

Quinafoi
08-19-2010, 08:39 AM
Hi, is the bump/grip effect affects both realms in heroic (10M) P3? Same question for the snare effect..
thanks

I assume you are talking about the void zones caused by the debuffs once they are clensed. Yes, on heroic difficulty these void zones are presant on both sides. You will have the fire void zones appear in the twilight realm and you will have the shadow void zones appear in the normal realm. This also includes the effects of those void zones such as the snare.

pyxio
08-22-2010, 11:04 AM
I assume you are talking about the void zones caused by the debuffs once they are clensed. Yes, on heroic difficulty these void zones are presant on both sides. You will have the fire void zones appear in the twilight realm and you will have the shadow void zones appear in the normal realm. This also includes the effects of those void zones such as the snare.

If I'm right, there is also a grip when shadow debuff is cleared and a bump when fire debuff is cleared. I guess these effects only affects one realm but I want to be sure...

Anyway, thanks for the answer and the confirmation of the "double effect" of the zones.

Ahti
08-24-2010, 07:40 AM
I'm getting destroyed tanking the inside dragon on heroic. Granted he hits hard to begin with, but looking at logs, he seems to be parry-hasting to gib me pretty consistently. I'm assuming that this is a function of our positioning (when the cutters happen, the raid is in the slice of pie immediately to my right, "following" me as I strafe around with only one beam in between us, if that makes sense).

Is there a positioning that people use to prevent their melee DPS from generating so many parries? This seems to be a major issue during cutters, but occasionally happens outside the cutters as well. Typical deaths for me look something like this:

[21:33:18.975] Halion hits Ahti 20444 (B: 2034)
[21:33:19.496] Halion Dusk Shroud Ahti 2265 (R: 690)
[21:33:19.598] Halion hits Ahti 22289
[21:33:20.340] Halion hits Ahti 13460 (O: 4619)

I try to get cooldown coverage during the cutters, but even then there tends to be a second or two right as cutters end or while it's ramping up while healers are still adjusting and the cooldown either hasn't gone up yet or has already faded, and something like this obviously only takes a split second to occur.

marklar
08-24-2010, 02:50 PM
he has a huge parry box - if they get anywhere near his front shoulder, you have to start worrying about parries.

try and stay close to the cutter on your left and that will pretty much force them to the rear of the dragon. you can also stop attacking yourself during cutters to avoid your own parries.

Ahti
08-26-2010, 11:45 AM
Thanks, that was helpful. I tried it some last night and even the relatively small amount I was able to shift to my left instead of staying centered between the cutters seemed to really reduce the frequency of his parry-gibs.

Bondiee
09-28-2010, 09:22 AM
Can u tell me what u think ? I am noob to editing, but I believe I covered almost everything in it. Btw, I would appretiate narration, if you are willing to. I am working on ICC now also.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5F82J2Ntl4

Deathsvalor
10-01-2010, 08:56 PM
This is the strat my guild uses in phase2 to position the boss. It seems that it has been mentioned already by previous posts but I thought that an illustration would explain it better.

http://www.kleos-guild.org/deathsvalor/HalionPhase2Positioning.gif

nveiga
10-26-2010, 07:00 AM
we trying Halion 10man HM

Our guild is stuck at 3º fase and we already reach 30%.
The question is should all melee stay in beam or should 1 meleee go up to get all the combustions?
Iam still w8ing to tankspot put a vid of 10man HM.
Here is the best i could find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vho2ZDWMf4M&NR=1

Thx

Erkebrand
11-01-2010, 02:14 AM
we trying Halion 10man HM

Our guild is stuck at 3º fase and we already reach 30%.
The question is should all melee stay in beam or should 1 meleee go up to get all the combustions?

Thx

In 10 man you should just focus on getting the dps equation right, so that you roughly have the same amount of dps in each realm. No need to distinguish between melee and ranged.

Besides that - if I understand you correctly - there no way of ensuring that 1 melee gets all the combustions. IMO the hardmode fight is all about coordination, quick reactions and precise movement, not tactical gimmicks. However if you have high enough dps(which you should by now) - you are able do this with four healers - makes balancing dps easier as well...