View Full Version : The Weekly Marmot -- Summer Raiding Blues

06-25-2010, 03:02 AM

http://www.tankspot.com/snowfall/donorbanner.jpg (http://www.tankspot.com/premium.php)

06-25-2010, 03:15 AM
Skip ahead...

You definitely look like a "Josh". I could have guessed that, maybe...

06-25-2010, 03:39 AM
Lesson to be learned: Don't be drinking during the first 10 seconds of Weekly Marmots, 'cause Lore always does something crazy... Nearly choked on my water at the "I think I broke it" high pitched cry :)

Other than that, great marmot as always, touching on a subject that hundreds of guilds experience each summer.

06-25-2010, 03:42 AM
i really really like old republics ^^

06-25-2010, 03:48 AM
we dealt with this pree emtivly this summer by slightly over reqruiting ppl since around easter. When we have 1 spot open we normaly have 2-4 ppl on trial fighting for that 1 spot trials can last up to 2 months. But I gues we are a nice bunch of ppl since even ppl that fail trial and are offerd f&f ranks mostly stay in the guild as f&f(about 70%) They ofc gett to fill out 10mans and alt runs.(and the rare shitt we are fucked today butt look that f&f is well geared and a ok player).

Gues we will see after the sumer if this works better than previus summers (last summer fucked us over bad and halted our progress from realm1 down to realm 6'th)

06-25-2010, 10:04 AM
Oh yes people not showing up the second day for actual progression was a huge problem in my guild in ICC. It was stupid too because we only got 6 bosses down, so it wasn't even that much.

I'm pretty sure the guild I was in before I left disbanded just because people stopped showing up altogether.

06-25-2010, 01:07 PM
Lore normally makes me laugh at that start, but I think that was the best.

06-25-2010, 03:07 PM
Lore normally makes me laugh at that start, but I think that was the best.

Yeah, haha

06-25-2010, 08:23 PM
Great video, Thanks.

And while I would not discourage anyone from supporting this awesome resource, I should point out that Fuzzie's guild has like... the most amazing tanks ever.

06-26-2010, 02:43 AM
I love the still.

Lore: *hairflip*

06-26-2010, 02:52 AM
Cool vid, seemed very relevent to myself as we're also 9/12 hm 25m's and constantly losing raiders and bringing new trials in.
Protip: LDW is not a fun fight to trial people, every week feels like progression on her.

06-26-2010, 06:46 AM

<3 Rofl.

06-26-2010, 11:43 AM
More people should have your attitude towards raiding, I couldn't get into raiding for the longest time because all the guilds on my realm were sadly asking for insane amounts of the gearscore to enter raiding, whether or not that was because I am a tank and they were "roleist" I don't know but I hit 80 when ulduar was the hardest raid, quickly got geared from heroics with the magic tank queue, and didn't get into raiding until I just decided to call up my tank friend who had the same problem and host our own Icc pugs and you know, watch a few vids on tankspot and wing it. This wasn't until well after all the bosses in icc were released, whenever I see a guild asking for gscore or a pug asking for achievement I honestly just think "fail raid leader in that group".

06-26-2010, 08:35 PM
My guilds going thru the Summer bull crap also. What you said about being able to "fix issues" such as gear and skill is what interest me, please show me the ways.

I used to think that WoW was a simple concept Itemization > Rotation > Dont Stand in Fire. After helping two RL friends get on their feet this expansion on their first toons I found out that this is a lot more frustrating then it sounds. One of them is actually now an excellent raider, the other one is good but tends to make more stupid mistakes.

Anyway my 11/12 HM guild just wiped on Sindragosa constantly on Wednesday and she's still up for Monday, bringing new people to that fight is such a set back. But its just so frustrating as to how people just can't stop screwing up, Sindragosa is but nothing but a bunch of simple mechanics rolled into one, Unchained being a bit more unique. Now blowing up the raid with Unchained is one thing, though unforgivable to do as caster DPS, and an "eyeroll" towards healers with good intentions, people screwing up Ice Blocks during Aerial Phase and dying due to not LoSing is just retarded. I'm convinced that the recruits we found that actually die to this must have killed Regular Sindragosa with the 20% buff where you could ignore the LoS part. (thanks for breeding poor quality raiders Blizz) Anyone can hiccup but we had the same Resto Shaman recruit die almost every attempt to simple crap.

06-27-2010, 07:36 AM
Think this summer is worse then usual due to the world cup aswel for those unfamilair with it most matches start at 8.30 pm and last a good 110-120 minutes break included, probably more for european guilds then for americans. Combine that with nice weather all around, (hasn't been below 25 degrees celcius here yet).

Still it's a temporary thing.

I can also totally relate to bringing new people to sindragosa, do a few swaps and all is good (if you can limit the number of new people on that boss -do it-)

06-27-2010, 09:54 AM
I think if you are dealing with recruitment/retention problems the guild leader needs to do four things:

1) Lay down the fact that if the guild doesn't get more people, the guild will fail.
2) Make it every guild members responsibility to get more recruits (bump recruitment threads, trade spam, website updates, etc).
3) Set up guild rules to discourage unannounced absenteeism
4) Make it clear that the guild is going to survive and continue raiding.

We did this in my guild a few months ago when we were struggling with retention/recruitment at 11/12 icc25 and we did those three things, weathered the storm, and were able to get past that time and now recruitment has exploded. We think that a lot of other guilds were in the same spot we were and ended up falling apart, which was good for us as we still hung on and cleared what we could consistently even when we were down 6-7 people. When we picked up the extra players we immediately downed LK and were 4/12 Hicc25 the next week. The positive attitude and having a plan to combat the issues was what I think pulled us through that time and got us going again.

06-28-2010, 12:21 PM
Managing guild numbers can be tricky.

Once you get your 25 people, which isn't easy, you want backups. Under non-summer times, those backups get frustrated in that they don't get enough raid time (and leave). And even if you get casuals who can fill in, how likely are they going to experienced enough to fill in the spot of a person who's been with the raid for several weeks straight? Rotating people in and out can solve some of this, but sometimes that tends to dilute experience.

And what about recruiting new people, what to do when the old people return? Take people in the armed forces who get posted overseas for a stretch of time and can't raid reliably while out, but then come back and want to resume their spot. Or whatever.

06-28-2010, 03:57 PM
My guild (Dismembers on Durotan) has by far the best raiding system I've ever played. Our biggest thing is that we always tell people before they join that if they expect to be at the top of the list for raiding then they won't be happy in our guild. We are casual plain and simple. We may never clear all raid content in a given expansion and we're ok with that. We only raid three nights per week (25 mans) and we never make it a requirement. But even though we're casual we do take it serious when we are raiding. We have a set time, expect people (who want to raid) to be there on time and be prepared to raid.

With that said, I want to make it clear that I'm not bashing hardcore (so to speak) raiding guilds. If that's how you have fun then by all means have all the fun you can. I just think it's important that you make it clear to potential members that that's the nature of your guild. I've joined a couple of guilds before that claimed to be casual but once I joined it turned out to be 6 nights per week. If you missed a night you got scolded by the GMs and so on. That's not what I considered casual.

Anyway, good post.

06-29-2010, 06:01 AM
Rock lobster!!

06-29-2010, 10:04 AM
Here is how we do things. As GM I saw our numbers grow (we are a 10 man guild i don't like coordinating 25 mans till i have more structure) So whe n i noticed that we ate 3 guilds ( some guys dieing in the summer) I took an officer who is damn good at coordinating experienced raiders but, terribad at teaching new guys and Made him pick 9 other guys for our "Elite" gruop. Then I Put my own LK kill goals aside began leading gruop 2 a gruop of some decent some terribad players that i am teaching the fights and for alot of them helping them learn thier class. This has given us a good pool to pull from and Even now it looks like i need to level my DK so i can lead gruop 3.

06-29-2010, 10:23 AM
Well at this point just about all your Core Raiders should be fully geared more or less and only need a few upgrades, thus a new member can take your spot until their is an upgrade that person needs, or until you start a tougher boss like Sindragosa or Heroic LK.

What really bothers me is we downed 11/12 Heroic at the 10% buff with the original core, with all the people we've been needing to replace we find ourselves wiping on Heroic Lady Deathwhisper, sloppy Putrecides and many disgusting Sindragosa nights. So when we actually do kill these bosses I just feel that we're carried by the buff.

06-29-2010, 10:54 AM
Yeah, that happens a lot to us too Kahmal, it's just learning the fights.

06-29-2010, 11:04 AM
Yeah, that happens a lot to us too Kahmal, it's just learning the fights.

Putrecide I can understand.....but Heroic Sindragosa is really the same thing. Its just a giant retard check, sure I except Trials to blow up the raid in Phase 3, but these days we're lucky to even get to Phase 3, and if we do it's at the cost of every Battle Ress.

If a Trial dies to Blistering Cold at least twice, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it was a lag or some technical issue, cause I have a hard time believing anyone can be that stupid.

Messing up Frost Tomb placements in Aerial Phase....we have Smoke Flares and we spam a macro for positions, we tell people to wait for marks at the bottom of the stairs, yet people still fly up and then get a mark and have to run to the worst possible spot that their mark is positioned thus screwing things up.

Killing Ice Tombs prematurely...I mean come on, nothing needs to be pushed under 50%. Luckily they have namplate health bars now so it's easier to keep tabs on that, dying to LoS...... And then when Sindragosa lands people rush back out into the field w/o even finishing off the blocks which can sometimes result in deaths.

Finally we get to Phase 3....which normally goes better, people rarely chain Ice Tombs, but an Unchained Backlash is inevitable with new trials, which is the only error I deem acceptable.

I'm convinced that the Trials that screw up on the first phases must have downed regular Sindragosa at the 20% buff where I literally stand way out and /dance as I eat Frost Bombs.

07-03-2010, 12:54 AM
Hey Lore!

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question! With a Weekly Marmot no less :D

You gave some great advice. I've been working with Wowmatcher and we're continuing to push our recruitment threads. We have fortunately managed to pick up a few people and a few are coming back. We are still in that precarious place where one or two people missing a raid will have a serious impact on our progression goals but the outlook is looking good.

Thanks very much for the reply. It was a treat. I enjoy the site even though I'm not a regular poster. Oh! Grats on your Heroic LK Kill.