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Lakesidian
06-15-2010, 03:44 PM
Hello all,
I was just curious to see if anyone has toyed around with this as their third Glyph as Fury. Seems like this would be a glyph that would get the most use rather than Execute or Cleaving.

Thanks in advance,
Lakesidian

Erkebrand
06-16-2010, 12:52 AM
Yes...allthough i dont have the math to back it up, i guess you could use that glyph situationally but only if:

1) you are very good at stancedancing/rending within the space of 4 seconds between two Bloodthirsts
2) you refresh rend whenever possible after it has ticked off
3) you dont execute much sub 20% (some fury warriors prioritize execute over slam during that fase)
4) the encounter doesnt have a element of adds, where cleave would be of more use.

I would also recommend, that you specced into improved rend before trying it out.

But all in all - no i wouldnt recommend it and im sure Cleave would be of more use to you :-)

MellvarTank
06-16-2010, 07:48 AM
This has a thread in the theory & mechanics discussion.

It is enirely possible to do, and definitely viable as a boost to DPS if you nail the rotation/dance down. However, on multi-target fights cleave will out-perform rend.

Also - in execute range you should only swap execute with HS. Slam! still does enough damage that you shouldn't stop using it. I would also say that in Execute range I would not bother keeping rend up.

Khilbron
06-18-2010, 12:55 AM
Also - in execute range you should only swap execute with HS. Slam! still does enough damage that you shouldn't stop using it. I would also say that in Execute range I would not bother keeping rend up.

In execute range talented and glyphed execute was ranging from 5500-13000(without DW, im also sure there was a sub 30 execute), where as slam was doing 5800-12850(with DW). This puts execute over slam in terms of priority unless the slam was a 4p proc, this is also based on whether or not you have good control over your rage to completely swap out slam for execute.

Kanes Elite Guard
06-18-2010, 12:51 PM
In execute range talented and glyphed execute was ranging from 5500-13000(without DW, im also sure there was a sub 30 execute), where as slam was doing 5800-12850(with DW). This puts execute over slam in terms of priority unless the slam was a 4p proc, this is also based on whether or not you have good control over your rage to completely swap out slam for execute.

Actually, based on the damage ranges you gave, execute has a theoretical average damage of 9250, slightly behind slam which is sitting at 9325. This means that even your non-4p slams should have priority over executes. And, that is without factoring in the increased rage cost of excessive executing and its inevitable negative interplay with the HS/Cleave bug.

Khilbron
06-18-2010, 01:07 PM
Actually, based on the damage ranges you gave, execute has a theoretical average damage of 9250, slightly behind slam which is sitting at 9325. This means that even your non-4p slams should have priority over executes. And, that is without factoring in the increased rage cost of excessive executing and its inevitable negative interplay with the HS/Cleave bug.

The numbers I also gave indicated a maximum slam of 12850 while Deathwish is active, and depending on the fight, when your in execute range, DW will most likely not be available, which gives execute a higher avg damage.

Kanes Elite Guard
06-18-2010, 01:20 PM
You are right, that is my mistake. I saw the without DW on execute, but completely overlooked the with DW on slam.

Kahmal
06-19-2010, 06:42 PM
I've been wondering if Rend totally outperforms Execute now fully buffed. I was doing a VoA pug and looked at some figures

Execute 4 times did 29093 damage with 2 of them being crits

Rend with 15 ticks ( 2 applications I believe) did 18934

Not using Glyph of Rending or Execution

Now naturally I'm only using Execute if there is no Bloodsurge proc, but clearly with only two rends I did more then half the damage the 4 Executes did. Granted if Execute crit more that wouldn't be the case but every time I look at my logs Executes crit ratio is very underwhelming as well as its damage. So I'm just trying to verify that unless the boss will die before Rend fades is Rend the better choice always?

Khilbron
06-20-2010, 10:01 AM
Your 15 ticks is 3 applications. 15s duration, 1 tick every 3s. So overall switching to rend instead of an execute is a dps loss, because your Rend is doing an average of 6311 per application, and your execute is doing on average 7273 damage per hit.

If you use Glyph of rending you will get 2 more ticks of rend at an average of 1262 per tick, will take 3 applications of rend up to an average of 8835 per application. However glyphing your execute will increase its hit like you have 10 more rage, giving it 380 more damage per hit, modified by all your raid buffs(im not awesome at math so i cannot calculate the exact increase, but suffice to say it would round out to roughly 2000-2400 per hit(I think, again I don't know the math behind the conversion, and how it factors in to all the damage buffs recieved). Ultimately though, I would say tank and spank single target sub 20% glyphed execute, and if you can nail the dance 100% of the time with no delay or error, glyphed rend would be better on a movement fight.

Kahmal
06-20-2010, 11:50 AM
Yea I constantly forget how few times rend ticks for its duration.

As to the glyph topic, sure rending is good for single target DPS, but with the way ICC stands right now I haven't bothered min-maxing my glyph's and costantly swapping them since the 15% buff, even the Hardmode bosses are trivial now so its not worth the gold.

The Lich King is the only encounter still worth it in my opinion, and I believe Cleaving is the better chose for the Valks, hell I hear Arms period is better for that fight.