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Harnessing
06-12-2010, 06:23 AM
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Stormscale&cn=Harnessing

With my current gear I'm pretty close to BiS without counting BoE gear for my tank pre-raids, the issue I have been having is being unable to find guilds or any raids that are willing to take me. I'm able to sneak into VoA 10 as a tank(50% of the time I'm removed) and guilds just don't want someone with my gear.

So what do I do? PuGs require 5.2kgs to 5.4kgs for icc + achievement and guilds require ICC gear or ICC heroic gear + knowledge for me to join, I am farming HoR norm and heroic to improve my gear *slightly* but its not going to get me over 100 GS anyway.(not like that makes a difference with 0 experience)

Harmacy
06-12-2010, 07:23 AM
Aside from gemming to a few too many socket bonuses and a few suboptimal enchants (chestpiece +275 health, and shield although +18 stam can wait until you get a decent shield), your gearing and spec and everything is superb.

Why the hell are you getting removed from Vault groups? You already outgear the instance by a mile.

Really you would be fine for most of ICC 10 and the first wing or two of 25. I guess if your server is really that bad with gearscore and achievement BS, then either start your own pug, or just server xfer.

Unfortunately, getting into a guild as a tank is extremely difficult. Either you join a brand new guild (or one that sucks), or you just have to make ret or holy your mainspec to get into a good established guild. And of course that requires more time and effort to farm ANOTHER set of gear and learn another spec.

One thing that would help with the guild thing (and with improving your character in general) is getting some professions. Pretty much anything would be an improvement, but the best professions are "flexible" ones like Blacksmithing, Jewelcrafting, and Alchemy. I would go JC/Alch personally, because not only do both give you flexible profession bonuses, but they are good moneymakers (JC you can sell your Dragon's Eyes from the JC daily every day, that's 60-70 gold for a few minutes effort - Alchemy you can do your epic gem xmute every day, and it also saves you money on flasks).

If you're strapped for cash (which is likely, since professions are the big moneymakers) you could always level Mining and sell what you farm, or keep it for leveling JC or BS (or Engineering actually, the armor glove enchant is fantastic).

If you apply to a guild, one of the first questions out of their mouth will be "why don't you have any professions?" And they would be right to ask that - profession bonuses are pretty big for raiding. Unless you have something crappy like Herbalism.

Harnessing
06-12-2010, 07:40 AM
I'll probably replace to 30 stamina gems wherever there isn't a 9 sta or 12 sta socket bonus, I really wanted the HoR norm shield but after running it 15 times and not seeing it drop I'm just about to give up, the 20 defence enchant on my current shield is there is because I got the shield when I hit 80 and wasn't defence capped.

Yeah, I know my gear is ready for ICC. However, most people are used to 45k + hp unbuffed tanks and don't accept anything less, It took me a while to find a freaking ToC 10 group for the weekly.

There is some guilds looking for tanks, however. The ones that are require me to have experience and over 5.5k GS and to be frank that ain't going to happen unless I get into a guild.

I'll probably go get minning(for stamina) and blacksmithing, however. I'm at the verge of quitting my paladin altogether because I want to raid not spend day after day looking for guilds trying to prove my gear is absolutely fine for ICC.

Harmacy
06-12-2010, 07:44 AM
Sounds like you need to swap servers. I know on my server you would have little issue getting into pugs (some of them are run by Gearscore-tards but most of them are pretty lax about that sort of thing).

Either that, or just start your own pug that doesn't require gearscore or achievements. Be willing to accept people that are around your own gear/experience level, you might not make it past the first 6 but it will be a start (and a good shot at a decent shield).

If you haven't done any ICC yet, make sure to read up and watch the videos beforehand so you don't look like a noob RL :-P

Harnessing
06-12-2010, 07:54 AM
Meh, I am on a stormscale EU which us well known for being full of tards. However it has been my home for a very long time and moving away would be kinda like leaving home, I'd have no clue where to go.

Starting PuGs without asking for gearscore is asking for trouble, even people with a decent GS and achievement fail on the basics of things(VoA 25 wipe because only 3 or 4 range dps where on orbs...Yeah) I'd hate to think how bad people will be w/o one. (hypocritical I know)

I'll probably sound big head and full of myself, but I've never failed in any raid ever, I always read up before hand and take down notes etc to not fail, so that is not an issue ^^.

Thanks for the help, I guess I'll consider moving.

aazzgard
06-12-2010, 08:04 AM
I'm amazed that you get removed from VOA 10's with your current gear level. In fact IMO you should be good for 25 man too. You might want to start looking at running your own VOA 10 and making it a class run - this means that when T10 gear drops the class it's for gets it without a roll. A lot of people like that and would come to yours.

Ok, there is a ton of stuff you can do to improve your situation, though as with most things it will take some time.

First off, you need to ensure you are doing your random daily to get your two frost badges. Also ensure you do the weekly, which should be no problem as it's the old raids most of the time (Nax/Ulduar/EoE, etc.) and if you do VOA as I suggested you should be able to get 21 frost badges a week. You should also try and offer, in trade chat, to tank random heroics for DPS classes to get insta-queues. This way you will start networking and making friends with people who may be willing to take you along to VOA 25's. You will also earn triumph badges on which I will expand more in a minute.

Now if you can get your frost badges up to 23 badges a week (14 from random daily, 5 from weekly and 4 from VOA 10+25) then within 5 weeks you will have enough badges to get both the Frost badge belt and cloak. These will make a massive difference in your HP and other tanking abilities.

With the triumph badges you are getting from doing maybe 5-6 randoms a day you can quickly build up enough to do 2 things. One is to try and get some tokens from ToC 25 to convert your 232 to 245 set gear (gloves and legs). Ideally you need to get enough tokens to be able to get a 4 set and a 245 one at that. You should also get the shoulders and helm when you have the badges, but ONLY when you have another 2 marks from TOC 25 to enable you to get the 245 T9 versions straight away.

Do you have GDKP TOC 25 runs on your server? If so you want to get in on those as they are specifically for lower geared players looking to get tokens+gear. If not you may want to see if you can get a friend or two already in a guild to set one up. This way you can purchase your tokens you need for the 245 gear and other tanking gear that may drop.

Next point you want to consider is this. Either join, or start yourself, ICC rep runs to get yourself a 277 Ashen Verdict ring. This will also help you immensely. Again you can spam these multiple times a day and they are generally quite popular as well. A good time for these is weekends when the more casual players are on. Getting the ring will boost your GS if that is what is needed as well is boosting your stats, which is definitely needed. Also as these go on you may find other newer players who don't get a chance to do ICC to maybe go for Marrowgar (make sure you do this just before weekly server maintenance or you won't be able to do any more rep runs) - this will give another 2 frost per week and you may well want to go for the next boss. And maybe, just maybe, this might be the basis of you starting your own guild!

I note that you don't have any professions - this will not look good when apping for a guild - I would certainly reject someone who did not have any professions. Also the correct professions will help a lot with your character. Mining and JC'ing might be a good way to go for now as JC'ing is very flexible and mining will complement it for now. Once you max out JC'ing you might want to swap for BS'ing as IMO that is a great combo for paladins and warriors. You can also use your mining to farm all the materials you will need to level up your blacksmithing before you swap (look up some guides on the net that tell you exactly how much you need of what to level from 1-450).

Finally with all this money you will be making by running heroic randoms/ICC rep runs/GDKP ToC 25's and mining you can save up money to get the Boot of Kingly Upheaval made. You should be comfortably over the defence cap so the lack of defence rating on them should not be a problem for you. At this point you will have three i264 items and hopefully your 232 tier 9's will be 245 tier 9's - good for gearscore and your stats.

When you get to this stage and with maxed out professions you should really be in a good position to apply to guilds and get in.

Finally I note that in the time I took to type all this you have had a similar response. I will still post this as I spent far too long typing it all out :D

Harnessing
06-12-2010, 08:28 AM
Some stuff you reply is pretty basic - Doing hc everyday? It should go without saying really. I'm obviously trying to maximise the amount of them I get a week but sometimes that's impossible(I have attempted voa 25 3 times this week as healer, all 3 times we wiped).

I have ran TOC 25 once and getting trophies is a 1 in 25 chance, not to mention the only reason I got in is because my friend has the kingslayer tittle and threatened to leave if I didn't get an invite, I don't have the achievement for it so nobody would let me in - Especialy not as tank. And I've never heard of a "GDKP run".

ICC rep runs are hell on earth, not sure how they are on other servers but here on stormscale they are full of wipes. Most of the time you spend is looking for replacements(this is my experience from my priest).

And yeah, I said above I will grab minning and jc/bs(unsure yet). When next week is doen and my exams are over.

aazzgard
06-12-2010, 09:14 AM
Sure I have replied with some basic stuff, but without sounding like I am putting you down, you look to be a very basic player at the moment - no one I know does not have some sort of profession even if not maxed out at level 80. So I have based my advice on that. I researched and read and knew what my first frost upgrades were going to be before I even hit 80. I only started playing this game in December last year.

A GDKP run is a Gold DKP run. Basically instead of points you bid for items with gold and the gold is shared between all 25 players at the end. So this is an excellent way to get items you want, and, if you look at it this way you will get a discount on any items you buy.

IDK what to say about ICC rep runs wiping all the time. Persevere is all I can say - there are no quick fixes unfortunately.

NewfieDave
06-12-2010, 09:32 AM
I'll probably sound big head and full of myself, but I've never failed in any raid ever, I always read up before hand and take down notes etc to not fail, so that is not an issue ^^.
Forgive me if I don't believe you. I've never met a person who was incapable of making a mistake. Actually, I appreciate raiders who acknowledge when they make a mistake, as it saves time trying to figure out what went wrong. People who play the blame game when they make a mistake are raid cancer.

As for your actual question: you have to accept that PUGs are completely unreliable if you choose to go guildless. To get into a good PUG, you need something that makes you stand out from the rest of the potential tanks (ie. GS, Achievements, or social connections). If you can't get into the good PUGs (and let me tell you that the "good" part is far from a guarantee), then you just have to start your own, have a boatload of patience, and hope for the best.

I don't think a server change is necessarily going to help you much. Any server with a large raiding population has the same situation with "link GS/Achieves", and there will be plenty of people ahead of you on that curve. Any server with a small raiding population will give you a different problem: little to no PUGs.

I think the best solution for you is to join/start a guild. Try on your server first. Accept that you will not get an invite to the most progressed guild on your server, and that you will need patience. If you can't get any guild to accept you, start your own. There are probably many people in the same situation as you, so a good recruitment strategy may be to target people with 4.8k-5k GS (ie. geared from heroics, but not raids). You will need to have patience with these recruits (notice a common theme here?) and not expect ICC full clears right out of the gate. If this still doesn't work for you, then look for a guild on another server that will accept somebody in your position (they do exist) and move to their server. If they don't work out for you, then you're pretty much screwed for raiding until Cata. Be patient, lol.

Harnessing
06-12-2010, 10:15 AM
@aazzgard I understand where you're coming from, I already have started upgrading through frost emblems, by no means I am a newbie when it comes to these sorts of things.

I'm pretty poor atm so a GDKP run is really out of the question, I did ahve around 8kg but spent it on BoE upgrades and other random stuff.

@NewfieDave - I knew it'd come out the wrong way, but what I mean is if a wipe does happen and I ask myself "Could I have done better?" the answer is yes, however. "Could I have done something to save the raid?" is a question I don't think I could ever say yes to, but of course this is first time playing tank and of course there is a larger gap for error so I could be proven wrong when I do start raiding.

I was thinking of starting a guild with a friend before, but as you may have noticed I may come off as rude and ignorant sometimes and that's not a good image for a guild leader to have. I'm also extremely impatient so recruiting people etc is not really my thing/

I'll continue searching for a guild(believe me, I'm not looking for a guild that's running icc 25 man hc - any guild that can run ICC in its current stage is good with me) but to be frank I believe PuGin is completely out the question for me and I do agree that the best solution is to look for a guild unless my friend is willing to help me start one.

Ayrie
06-13-2010, 05:35 AM
Lots of people are saying "apply" to guilds when I think the best thing for you might be to get into a guild that runs ICC 10/25 on a regular basis but may need to pug spots to fill their groups. These guilds can give you great experience but are usually more lax on who they let in (as in you dont need huge GS or raid experience to join). A reliable raider in guild is always better than a pug imo. Some of the raids might be a little frustrating to run but in my experience you can start in one of these guilds and move up to bigger/better ones as your gear and experience gets better.

Selene
06-13-2010, 03:08 PM
Sounds to me like you need to do 1 of a few things.

1) Change servers, not matter how much time and effort you have given a server if you can't progress its time to move on.
2) See if your friend with the Kingslayer title can pull some strings to get you into a group.
3) Run your own raids, start with people you know, especially if they have alts that aren't in their guild's runs.