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View Full Version : Druid Biggest Upgrade or T10 for a bear tank



grizlee
06-11-2010, 09:25 AM
With my random today I will have 60 frost to spend on the first piece of frost gear for my bear tank. I have read in many places that the T10 is the best place to start (think someone said spending money on anything other than that kills a kitten).

So that is my intitial plan. However, part of me looks at my poor iLVL 200 trinkets and wonder. I have 3 piece T9, 232 helment, and Knightbane carapace. My trinkets are the gossamer trinket from h azul nerub (sp?) and the indestructible alchemist stone. Going to pick up the glyph of indomabilty in the next day or two with triumph to replace one of those.

So get the T10 shoulders with my 60 or the skeleton trinket instead?


TIA,
Tony aka Grizlee

Terra
06-11-2010, 09:26 AM
You shouldn't ask a question like this without an armory post.. BUT... nearly every time I nswer this question it's get the trinket...

grizlee
06-11-2010, 11:10 AM
Didn't think I could access it from work but could - here's my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nesingwary&cn=Grizlee

I'm also thinking of moving my Ashen Verdict ring over from my healing set to the tank set because I find I'm tanking more now than healing in raids.

Terra
06-11-2010, 11:47 AM
Tanking trinket IMO.

Quinafoi
06-11-2010, 12:15 PM
I'd actually disagree. A druid should prioritize the set first. The set pieces when upgraded is best in slot, and the set bonuses are the only leather pieces that actually will benefit a tank specifically, there is no such thing as tanking leather so set bonuses is what make it viable for a druid. You should not be spending emblems of frost on anything until you have your four pieces of tier 10, for a tank you prioritize all pieces but the chest piece.

The biggest individual upgrade tends to lead to the longest wait for what is truly important. In the meantime you can look for other sources to upgrade your trinkets.

Tschus
06-11-2010, 12:40 PM
I think the very basic question would be: what raids do you currently have access to, and what are you aiming for?
The Black Heart + Glyph of Indomitability will be fine until 10LK or some HMs.

I will keep the 60 frost, and borrow the trinket if needed, and then buy 2pcT10 together when I have 155.

felhoof
06-11-2010, 12:49 PM
It very much depends on how rapidly you can expect to get your 4pT10 bonus and whether you really care.

The only reason to care is that you'll be tanking very hard things - hard modes in 10 man, hard modes in 25, some of the older things like Anub or Yogg-0 maybe. If the answer is 'no', don't bother with the 4pT10; it is itemized poorly for bears in general at the lower end.

If you're going to get frost emblems at about 30 a week and assuming you get lucky and get one piece of T10 from VoA, it is going to take you at a minimum 5 more weeks to get 4pT10. Is that worth it to you? Now, if you're only getting (for example) 20 a week, you're now looking at 8 weeks.

My gut feeling is that 4pT10 is not that important for your needs and you should focus elsewhere. You can get ilvl 264 chest. belt and gloves, buy via saronite ilvl 264 pants and boots. The trinket is something that will help quite a bit. But not insanely so. Heck, you can buy a normal sack for a chest and that would do you better.

For you, Rawr rates both the cat burglar grips and the sentinel winter's cloak as a bigger upgrade than corroded skeleton key. in terms of upgrade value/emblem, the gloves, cloak, belt, chest, 251 T10 legs, T10 hands and T10 head all rate higher than CSK. The only thing less valuable than the CSK in terms of upgrade value is the T10 251 shoulders and chest.

Given that you could get lucky on a VoA, I'd go with the cloak first. Work on buying an Ikfirus Sack, or getting the saronite to craft the legs and boots (both of which would be a huge upgrade) - and probably the boots first. Then go after the belt and then maybe the chest in case you don't find a sack.

grizlee
06-11-2010, 12:50 PM
We are just starting to plan to go into ICC. We've been cutting our teeth on Ulduar and have some TOC 10 on the calendar in the near future. Right now I just have the 3 piece T9 so I wouldn't loose anything by waiting for the 2pcs together I don't think. Had thought about getting the 4piece bonus when I was considering this my off-spec but now that I am using this spec more than my healing the frost will go to it.

felhoof
06-11-2010, 12:50 PM
Also, it is a crime that you don't have glyph of indomitability. A huge crime. There's no excuse given what trinkets you have.

felhoof
06-11-2010, 12:54 PM
And ALSO ALSO - fix your spec! Don't take glyph of mangle without imp mangle - frenzied regen is much better. Don't take 3/5 naturalist and 5/5 furor - switch those.

grizlee
06-11-2010, 01:01 PM
I've respecced about 5 times from reading different things on this forum, elitist, wow forums and none of them seems to make a huge change. I'm willing to learn however. Most of what I've read lately has said the imp mangle isn't worth it so I recently specced out of it - true? If so then I'll change th glyph. What is the pro of switching the naturalist and furor around. TIA, Griz

Guilty on the trinkets - this spec sat idle for a long time with whatever was available from drops only and only recently when I got fairly happy with me heals did I spend any triump on it.

That being said, should I go for the t9 head for the bonus and spend the frost on the cloak? I must be missing something on the cloak as it's stats didn't seem that great for me. I have a Mac so RAWR doesn't work for me.

Thanks for all the help.

felhoof
06-11-2010, 01:16 PM
The stats are incredible - 560 extra armor, better avoidance and about 80 more stamina than what you have now - and all for 10 emblems less than what you would spend on corroded. There is literally no better cloak in the game for bears currently.

Imp mangle isn't a big deal, but the glyph of mangle isn't very good if you don't have imp mangle.

5/5 Furor's only benefit is giving you 10 rage when you switch 100% of the time. Naturalist adds 4% more damage ALWAYS. This is really a no-brainer; you can just reshift to bear if you need more rage.

The T9 bonus isn't that special. I wouldn't worry about it relative to getting higher ilvl things. The glyph should be your first triumph priority. The cloak is probably your first frost. If you want to maximize your triumph, I'd go with the 245 non-tier head and the 245-non tier shoulders first. They're the same price as the tier items but don't require the token.

grizlee
06-11-2010, 01:22 PM
Thanks felhoof. I'm weight all these things and when I get home from work I'll be ablt to look at more things. I probably will respec first thing. Like I said, I've seen so many specs on these forums and keep giving them a try.

Quinafoi
06-11-2010, 01:27 PM
I still say you're making a poor decision if you get the set pieces later. Also keep in mind. If it takes you 8 weeks to get all the tier pieces... it also takes you 8 weeks to get all the offset pieces. You aren't getting emblems any faster. You can spend 60 on the offset gloves, or you can spend 60 on the set gloves. The cost doesn't change whether you're buying set pieces or offset pieces. However one thing that does come into play however, ultimately, the tier pieces are your best in slot. And unlike those offset pieces, you have to buy them in order to upgrade them to be the best in slot. You spend 60 now and 60 again later to buy the set gloves when you have a token to upgrade them and you just spent twice as many badges as you had to.

Chances are if you're worried about what to spend your first emblems on, you also don't have a large surplus of money to just go out and buy Saronite to get crafted items either, if you want th crafted items you'd probably have to grind for them yourself.

felhoof
06-11-2010, 01:37 PM
I still say you're making a poor decision if you get the set pieces later. Also keep in mind. If it takes you 8 weeks to get all the tier pieces... it also takes you 8 weeks to get all the offset pieces.The difference is that until you get the 4pT10, the pieces by themselves are pretty crappy. Whereas as soon as you get the 264 gear, it's immediately better than anything you can get in normal mode ICC 25 or heroic 10.

The tier pieces are only best in slot because of the bonus, which isn't that useful. The 264 pieces aren't remotely best in slot per ilvl. Really, the only reason to get the tier pieces is because you want the bonus and know you'll need it. If you're doing normal modes there's no reason to need that extra cooldown. It just isn't that relevant. The 251 pieces are by themselves worse than most ICC10 pieces, and significantly worse than the 264 pieces you can buy.

Now you're right that if you're planning on getting 4pT10, it's a waste. Which is why I recommended going with the cloak and belt first - both would be large upgrades that would be hard to duplicate in other ways, neither conflict with what he has. But really - the 4pt10 isn't that great unless you're doing hard modes and are THE tank for doing HLK. If you're not, it's much worse to go for. I'd want to get the 2pT10 for the threat boost, but you can do that with shoulders and hopefully gloves from VoA.

Terra
06-11-2010, 01:45 PM
I've been tanking ICC 25 as a feral druid. At the time I started ICC, boomkin was my main spec and I took ilvl 264 stuff (emblem of frost chest, crafted boots and pants, etc...) and my entire ilvl 264 or better set (except for 1 trinket) contains zero tier pieces. The ONLY time I feel I really wish I had the tier bonus is when I'm tanking lich king in 25 man. I don't feel I need it in 10 mans regular or hard modes or any 25 man content besides LK. Since there's ilvl 264 stuff to have out there, I feel the non tier pieces should all be first and this buys you time to get some lucky drops in VoA. I am working on getting 4 piece set bonus for feral at ilvl 264. I have 2 right now. However, I won't use it at all until I have 4 pieces if I need the set bonus.

grizlee
06-11-2010, 01:47 PM
I see where both of you are coming from. Whereas I hope to be at the point later for BIS every slot and THE tank, I ain't there now and at the current one or two nights a week we raid it will be awhile to collect the frost I need. I'm warming to the idea of getting the cloak but I'm still pondering. I don't think I'm of a mind to get the non-tier frost gear but after the triumph trinket (and probably a little farming for the black heart) I might look at some of the higher triumph gear.

Tschus
06-11-2010, 08:49 PM
Right now I just have the 3 piece T9 so I wouldn't loose anything by waiting for the 2pcs together I don't think.
It's pretty handy to have 60 frost around for a trinket. If you are aiming for 2T10, buying one piece can't give you too much upgrade so keeping the 60 frost might yield some convenience. I really like the 2pc bonus btw, it makes life much easier :p


The tier pieces are only best in slot because of the bonus, which isn't that useful. The 264 pieces aren't remotely best in slot per ilvl. Really, the only reason to get the tier pieces is because you want the bonus and know you'll need it. If you're doing normal modes there's no reason to need that extra cooldown. It just isn't that relevant. The 251 pieces are by themselves worse than most ICC10 pieces, and significantly worse than the 264 pieces you can buy.
ICC10 leathers drops aren't better than the 251 tier pieces imo, although they have one more socket (except the head piece) than the tier. But yeah I agree that picking up the 264 offset pieces is a better upgrade.

grizlee
06-11-2010, 09:03 PM
Went ahead and picked up the frost cape this evening. Decided it would be the best bang for the buck right now. I'm going to get the glyph trinket this weekend and maybe farm for black heart to set me up for trinkets for a bit. Next triumph purchase will be the dextrous brightstone ring and the next frost might be the belt or save em up for a while to see how close I am to the 2 pc t10. Keeping the long term goal in mind, I think I'll go for the tier 10 over the non-tier frost pieces. I respecced to make the change fully into naturalist but haven't reglyphed yet as our inscriptionist wasn't on.

btw, thanks for all the help. posted the same question (cut and pasted from this one) on another website and it was deleted as a begging question :(

Tschus
06-12-2010, 12:47 AM
Use the clutch with ashen verdict tank ring, and buy 245 head/T9 head/245 shoulder with the triumph badges.
Dont gem for dodge and hit, as you are already over the hit cap. Use all 30sta or 10agi+15sta ( or 10 expertise + 15 stamina since you're lack of expertise) in red sockets if you want the bonus.
Grab a pair of 264 LW boots if you can afford them, they're awesome.

grizlee
06-12-2010, 07:58 AM
I knew I forgot something - lost that one last hit gem. When I got Orca hunter harpoon I ended up way over hit cap. This may be a dumb question but why wouldn't I want the dodge on the gems?

Tschus
06-12-2010, 09:34 AM
Because agility is a better stat for bears :) I am too lazy to check the number but after the talents and kings buff, the benefit of 10agility is way more than 10 dodge.

grizlee
06-13-2010, 08:15 PM
Just an update. Got the frost cloak on Friday and the Glyph on indomitability today. Waiting for a replacement (out of UK) for my ashen ring so I can switch it over to my tank spec. One more opinion to solicit - for my triumph - should I get the lethal intent head or complete the T9 4 piece with the head. In looking at it (even though the bonus isn't great) I like the t9 head.

dastrand
06-15-2010, 08:55 AM
I would get the lethat healm, and to your orignal post the biggest upgrade you should focus on since i assume you dont have acess to the dreamer yet is getting a battered hilt. It is important for druids to try and get to expertise cap the easiest way to do that with the current gear is lightborn spire and ikrufus sack of wonder. Dont know if i spelled that right. Your tier pieces are your top priority get head and shoulders first in case you get legs or hands out of voa, and i dont know if you have any threat issues but i use armsman on my gloves.

slacman69
06-21-2010, 11:14 AM
Ok so I have just decided to go tank spec on my druid after being kitty dps. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Uther&cn=Cherfan I am coming up on 60 frost badges and not sure where i should go with it. I was thinking the belt would be a great upgrade. Also is Glyph of Indomitability really that good? As you can see I have Black Heart and am currently using Balebrew for the 2.5k health that I get from it. I haven't tanked any of ICC10 yet as a bear so not sure if I am quite up to par yet. I do normally do it as a healer. I don't farm often so I normally don't have a lot of gold on hand but I doubt it would take me long to come up with a few thousand gold for upgrades though on my server saronite is still 800-1k gold. Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Tschus
06-23-2010, 04:09 AM
You logged out in your healing gear, can't see what you have now.
Brewfest trinkets are quite good too imo, but I would use glyph of indom over the brewfest trinket except for magical damage fights.

grizlee
07-03-2010, 07:02 PM
Just an update. Got the Duskstalker shoulders with my triumphs and will get the lethal intent helm when I get the 75 triumph built back up. Should get the vengeful noose in the next couple of days (got 53 frost as of tonight). I've been buying saronite when it's under 1000g (which is a good deal on our server). Got 3 primordial saronite and 6 arctic fur built up for the boots of impending death. Guess I'll start on the T10 after I get all that done. Still no luck on the black heart dropping but the essence is holding it's own right now I reckon.

BTW, we start ICC this week.

Tschus
07-04-2010, 02:52 PM
I would go for the T9 head, for the expertise.
Use the pvp enchant on shoulders.
You can also consider the frost trinket, it's a good upgrade too. 100 stamina boost, maybe the biggest upgrade you can have :P

grizlee
07-04-2010, 03:43 PM
Was that @ me Tschus. Think I might have gone back to thinking about the trinket since there doesn't seem to be a lot of good trinket drops even in ICC and there is at least a couple of belts I think I saw. The T9 head piece was something I considered but after spending my triumph on the duskstalker shoulders I'm less likely to do that I think. If nothing else I'll go for the T10 head a little sooner. I'm so indecisive in all this, so many variables.

Kazeyonoma
07-06-2010, 10:25 AM
Moved to HALP!