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Zag
06-07-2010, 01:12 AM
Hi all,

Im pretty disappointed by my dps on single targets when i see other warriors with substantially lower gear outdpsing me.

Ive got nearly 6k gearscore with 3 tier items equipped, legs are 264.

Ive gemmed arp except for the meta dependant gems.

Rotation is BT - Whirl - Slam when it procs, HS every time i cant use one of the main 3.

It seems i have above 50% rage all the time, maybe even above 75%, so if anything i have too much rage.

I got the standard 18/53/0 talenttree.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ghostlands&cn=Zagorin

For example i do 8.5k on Saurfang 25 man and i know i should do better.

Ive got 72% arp, 261 hit, 27 exp, 4947 power, 40,24% crit.

I think it cant be gems or gear so it must be my rotation.

In all honesty i dont really stick to the rotation when i see BT up instead of Whirl i just hit it and use everything thats available.

What am i doing wrong?

Tinytankz
06-07-2010, 01:26 AM
Make Sure You DW during BL that is a Big gain right there if you are not. I am also unsure of whether you should Gem ArP yet, Right now if you are make sure you are using heart Rhino (40 ArP food) and Elixir of armor piercing that way you are sitting more towards 1100 ArP . This may be the Crux where ArP and STR are the same but IDK, your over hit by quite some change i think Titanium Spikegaurds are better than your current bracers, Only because that 50 hit is literally wasted and the have 50ArP on them http://www.wowhead.com/item=47572 . Also pewrhaps even go back down to the 245 thrown http://www.wowhead.com/item=47659 dunno just spittballing. I do know that you shuold change your belt to http://www.wowhead.com/item=50995 as you are over hit and it gives a ton of ArP.

Zag
06-07-2010, 01:30 AM
Thanx for the tip. I will look into more arp gear.

Tinytankz
06-07-2010, 01:37 AM
with ArPis real a pain to look at I dont have the time to Plug your Guy into Landouls so i dont know if the trade from STR to ArP on the Bracers is DPS loss or not, My rule of thumb when talking to guys is 80% ArP gem for it till then stack STR. You are really close With the Food And Potion you will see a large jump as 85 ArP is alot when you are only 399 away from a hard cap situation.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=44330
http://www.wowhead.com/item=42995

and also if you really wanna get there you may have to swap Mining for JC and put mining on an alt.

Rabbia
06-07-2010, 01:41 AM
Well....

Look this isn't a shot at you, but your gear really isn't that good. I haven't verified but I'm a bit surprised that this is a 6k GS, even.

If you are serious about being a Fury Warrior you must get a weapon like Shadow's Edge, not Bryntoll - that is more for Pally's and certain DK's. Because in particular you want to get the passive cap for Arm Pen - 100%, not 72%. That alone will make a huge difference in your dps. The same sort of consideration carries over into your other gear. Your belt, your second trink, for example - NO arm pen, just stats that aren't doing you very much good, whatever the GS might be, as it is now. Plus you only have 3 pieces of tier ten, and the only one that is Sanct is the worst of the three best - helm, chest, legs - particularly at this point where you HAVE Ram's as your OH. So you are actually OVER the Expertise cap, which is useless. (Not by much admittedly, but still). 164 is the soft hit cap, and there you are, at 261 - not much use there either, not at this point.

With respect if anything, and assuming this really is a 6k GS, it's a prime example of a GS being misleading. On Saurfang I would average well over 10k and even hit 11k, when I was at 5700GS, with only 3 piece tier ten. A k or more more on Fester or Rotface say, depending on how things panned out. I'd average that much even, entire runs.

So in a way I'm saying...cheer up, I don't think it's you, not entirely at least. Your rotation may need work, but read over the guide here and at EJ's. Start with BT though, not WW, I would suggest - I haven't thought it through but instinct suggests to me there's a difference although Thegreatme may be right - as I say I haven't thought it through yet.

Zag
06-07-2010, 01:49 AM
Well to get the Shadows edge i need the blood ofcourse and i think im getting the last one tonight.

Considering the legs 264 tier i got them from VOA not for a token.

I will drop the Precision from my talenttree and see what i can replace that with.

Zag
06-07-2010, 01:51 AM
But if i get u guys i should just go for arp gear even if it drops all the other stats?

Rabbia
06-07-2010, 02:03 AM
The drop mining suggestion is a good one as you can then go JC and get 3 JC gems.

Dropping Precision may actually make sense in this unusual case but ordinarily I'd not do this. Drop Improved Berserker Rage (I hadn't looked at your tree earlier). For god's sake you have too many rage generators, but ironically not the best value of all - Anger Management. You will Berserker Rage sometimes, but not often as it's on the GCD, so runs the risk of dps loss, you see? Drop Iron Will and put those points into Tactical Mastery instead, in case you want to Rend, Shattering Throw or whatever. I'd drop another point out of UW and take Heroic Fury also - it's very handy in ICC. You don't seem to go into raid shouts but that's up to you.

On talent tree, take a look at Landsoul of Vodka guild. Bear in mind he will be generating more rage than you will, so he won't need any of what you might by way of rage generating talents. But at the 6k GS mark, that shouldn't be a problem.

As for Arm Pen, the advice given about plugging it in to the Spreadsheet is sensible and is the normal advice. But let me put it this way, I'd be VERY surprised if switching all Strength gems over to Arm Pen until you hit the cap, and even changing those legs to Legplates of Painful Death say UNTIL you need the Sanct for 4 piece proc and you have replaced Ram's in OH, would not knock your socks off, dps-wise.

Synistah
06-07-2010, 02:07 AM
Your weapon and gear could use an upgrade, As someone previously stated Shadows Edge would be massive over Bryntoll, You are a biy short of the desired ArP amount most warriors want

Also nothing personal.. But 6k GS means nothing, GS as a whole means nothing and just sounds nooby =x. Again nothing personal at you but something i noticed is the thred title "6k gs warrior gutted by his DPS" making it sound like you assume 6K GS automatically means you or for that fact anyone else is good,

If that is the fact try and remove that assosciation from your head, It will allow you to focus more on stats and other benefits when putting gear sets together rather then keeping your left eye on the Gear score mod. In turn this should help you as a warrior know what your strengths are, even down to the detail as many people miss because alot of minor DPS losses or alot of minor upgrades all add up to quite a significant amount.. and this is what alot of people miss.

Also could you please post a rough guide line of your current raiding progress as so we can find out what you currently have access to gear wise and can assess and give you tips on what to aim for within your reach.

Thanks and good luck!

Zag
06-07-2010, 02:21 AM
I got jc on my rogue so i dont think im going jc on my warrior.

Im not keen on switching to battle stance really. Seems like a waste of time. Id rather stay in berserker all the time. Dont think there should be anything wrong with that.

Ive got those legplates of painfull death in fact, i just replaced em with the tier legs 264, because i had to gem 4x expertise with those legs. Now it seems its just the same, i lose arp but dont have to gem the exp. only im on my way to the 4 tier pieces. i got the frost to buy the 4th piece but does the 4 set bonus beat the gloves 264 for example i use now?

I know gs doesnt mean everything but it sure means u should be able to do some major dps if ur competing with 5kgs. I just put it in the title so u had an idea of my gear.

Im doing 10 man heroic icc and 25 man till 6th boss atm.

Synistah
06-07-2010, 02:32 AM
Alright thanks for the info, Ill take a look at it overnight and see if i cant give you some personal recommendations of what i deem to be easily obtainable yet solid upgrades for you.

keep up the good work, Reppin warriors proud!

kemikalkadet
06-07-2010, 02:33 AM
Rotation is BT - Whirl - Slam when it procs, HS every time i cant use one of the main 3.



You should be using HS at the same time as the other three. It's not on the GCD.

Rabbia
06-07-2010, 02:38 AM
Okay well that's access to some decent gear. You need gear with further expertise to bolster your Ram's OH then, and go back to the other legs, until you get Sanct 4 piece. I'd not gem for it. JC well sure understand making g is important, but this was about maximising this character's dps - you won't do that with 500 hp from mining obviously.

It's hard to explain but the gear here, it's a bit of a mess, stats-wise. Get 100% Arm Pen and see what happens....

Good luck.

gacktt
06-07-2010, 02:54 AM
Something tells me that isn't 6k GS, 251 gear mixed with 264 won't reach 6k, if it did I would have 7k+ in full 277, and I only have 6.4k with it.

Anyway get more gear and do your rotations better. If you lack any buffs(haste/sunder is massive and not always present) then it will have a very negative effect on your output.

Don't buy a shadow's edge as most guilds can just sell you a heroic cryptmaker for like 20k instead, which is obviously a better deal.

Zag
06-07-2010, 02:58 AM
GS is 5970 so pretty much 6k.

Zag
06-07-2010, 03:01 AM
Thanx for info Rabbia, will try for 100% arp.

Zag
06-07-2010, 06:55 AM
Well ive replaced the ranged 264 weapon for a 245 one with arp. `
The 264 bracers for the 245 bsm ones with arp.
And the plate waist for the rogue waist 264 with arp.

Went from 72% arp to 90% now.

Gonne eat arp food in raids and then im curious what my dps will be like.

My gs went from 5970 to 5922 so hope this doesnt make too much difference with losing ap and crit.

My hit went from 261 to 149 and i also dropped precision from the talents.

Have to see if the hit is too low now.

PatrikL
06-07-2010, 06:58 AM
In all honesty i dont really stick to the rotation when i see BT up instead of Whirl i just hit it and use everything thats available.

I dont know anything about dpsing as a warrior I should say to start... but this statement above alone is something you'll lose dps from. Whether its a static rotation or a priority list that is developed for your class, you need to learn to stick to it. Once you've really mastered it you can start experimenting and adapting to different situations but before that you need to learn NOT to just press everythink that is available at the time. I would recomend 30 minutes with a training dummy if you arent used to following rotations/prio lists to develop some muscle memory, really helps to start a new spec with or if you havent learned an old one properly.

Zag
06-07-2010, 07:04 AM
Thanx for that info Patrik, but i have to say i have a rogue that has to stick to rotations so im used to em. On the other hand on the warrior it doesnt seem to make any difference if i use the rotation or not.

MellvarTank
06-07-2010, 08:15 AM
Precision is a point-for-point larger DPS gain than any other talent that early in the tree. Spec back into it. It doesn't matter if you are over-cap or not.

Passive
06-07-2010, 08:22 AM
Aren't fury meant to only slam proc in their free gcd, as in, don't use it if it will push back ww/bt rotation? At least without 4 set t10.

Mert
06-07-2010, 08:22 AM
It's a minor thing, but I believe Improved Rend is a moderate DPS increase if done correctly, even with the 4pc and the fact it won't be used much. There was a huge thread on it someplace that might also be a good source for you to find out the minutae of your rotation (it's not as pronounced as a Rogue's but there's definitely still an "optimal" way to do it).

EDIT: Found the thread - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?57781-Wotlk-Fury-Warrior-Guide/page31

MellvarTank
06-07-2010, 08:34 AM
Aren't fury meant to only slam proc in their free gcd, as in, don't use it if it will push back ww/bt rotation? At least without 4 set t10.

This is debatable and highly situational. You do have enough time with a slam proc to spend 1 GCD and an ability on it before the proc expires, but you can't do both. Ideally, you hit the proc when neither WW/BT is off cooldown. The basic idea is that if you continually push back WW/BT you eventually end up at lost DPS. It will always be better to use WW/BT first, and Slam! second.

Dmgsponge
06-07-2010, 09:40 AM
I'd spec back into Precision as well, with your hit at 149 you're way under the cap, ideally you want your numbers to be 229.53 to hit the 7% (that number is factoring in the 1% from Heroic Presence) to calculate hit i use http://wow-heroes.com/hitcalculator.php

Tinytankz
06-07-2010, 10:35 AM
You will have to pop all 3 points back into precision with dranea as your race you will be at 8% hit from gear racial and precision. The boost to ArP means that with food and Potion you are almost 100% ArP which means you shuold see a HUGE increase in DPS. Let us know how it works man. Just respec back into percision before you give us the numbers. Good luck


I'd spec back into Precision as well, with your hit at 149 you're way under the cap, ideally you want your numbers to be 229.53 to hit the 7% (that number is factoring in the 1% from Heroic Presence) to calculate hit i use http://wow-heroes.com/hitcalculator.php

He will only need 4% from gear

4% from gear + 1% from Heroic Pressence + 3% from PRecision Talent.= 8% hit to smack a boss :D

Trogdorrior
06-07-2010, 10:54 AM
My fury warrior is by no means near your gscore, but I have a few things that help me put out the sort of dps I enjoy seeing. The first thing I did was set up poweraura alerts for victory rush and slam! procs. I personally only use slam when it procs, and I nearly always use Vrush when it procs, I've never heard of anyone doing this, but I've noticed a damage/dps increase and it only adds more rage without a large cost. The second thing I did was relax. I was once prone to spamming buttons to make sure I had everything hit when it was available, but I ended up making mistakes. 1 second is a surprisingly long time when you're relaxed. Know your priorities and hit them when they are up, but just be calm about it, I always weave in HS when I have 60+ rage and cleave in multi mob packs when I have 65+ rage and I have poweraura alerts to tint my screen when I'm sitting at those rage levels.
Fury is my passion. My warrior is my main. Heed the advice of those that posted before my and then just relax. It's all about the chill.

Loganisis
06-07-2010, 11:07 AM
Thoughts that I haven't seen covered.

* What is your latency? Your rotation looks like it could be improved some (more HS when rage allows, since it's a white-attach modifer, not a GCD modifer), but it may also be latency related?.

* One thing to think about too is trying to (and it's hard because they're procs and there for not controllable) stack Death Wish with either of your trinket's procs. The 20% increased damage with the extra attack power should be fairly valuable. This hasn't been mentioned, but with 2 trinkets that proc AP bonuses, I'm not sure you'd be waiting long for using Death Wish - unless those better than I suggest using it immediately.

* Others may disagree, but how is your rage generation? If you find you're holding back to manage rage, the extra rage generated from unbridaled wrath (more HS at a minimum) should offset the 82.5 AP bonus from 3/5 commanding presence and 2/2 booming voice.

* Does someone in the raid keep sunder @ 5 stacks (prot warrior tank ftw)? Over a boss fight where there's no risk of it dropping off, there's no reason not to keep sunder up and even though you loose the odd GCD every now and then, over the course of the fight the extra damage adds up (don't recommend it for heroics though...)

Trogdorrior
06-07-2010, 12:19 PM
using a mod like powerauras would make stacking deathwish with trinket buffs much, much easier.

Passive
06-07-2010, 12:42 PM
Also the cooldown timer part of fortexorcist will show you how long til your trinkets/berserking enchant etc are off cooldown, ie. when you can expect them to proc again.

Trogdorrior
06-07-2010, 12:45 PM
Also, IMO, unless you are a hardcore min/maxxer or perfectionist, learn to be content with upper tier averageness. There is nothing wrong with not being the best but still be better than alot of other people. FIgure out what you would enjoy seeing, and use the tools necesarry get there.

PatrikL
06-08-2010, 02:15 AM
using a mod like powerauras would make stacking deathwish with trinket buffs much, much easier.

A bit offtopic maybe but I used to use a different addon for procs before (TellMeWhen) but have lately switched to PowerAuras so I get a sound queue as well as the graphical representation. Big improvement I have to say if someone havent thought of using a sound signal for for example KM as is my case.

Zag
06-08-2010, 02:40 AM
Well i got some good news.

Indeed i put 3 points back into precision and i counted on the Dreanei passive buff of 1%.

Did ICC25 and i got the Deathbringers Will and a token from Saurfang.

Equipped the Deathbringers Will and did nearly 10K on Festergut.

On Rotface i got the last blood and bought Shadows Edge. My Arp is now 100% without buffs.

I even could equip the Tier legs without arp and im still on 100% arp.

Next thing im doing is buying the 4th token to get the set bonus just have to see which one im gonna get cause my hands and chest are is Frost emblem gear and it has arp on both.

Indeed i used to be top on activity in 25 man spamming the buttons to increase the dps. I may well be doing too much spamming and making my dps output worse like u said.

My latency is pretty much always round 120 ms think thats good enuf.

I also use victory rush when up but this isnt really relevant on bosses while it only comes up after killing a mob.

Slam i use on proc other than that i use BT and Whirl when up and HS when the others are on cd.

Deathwish at start of the fight so i can used it twice in a fight maybe this isnt preffered over using it on trinket proccing for example have to look at that. Same goes for Recklessness.

Anyway i changed my Arp from 70% to 100% in one day with easy and cheap changes with some luck on drops.

Gonna put on the 4 set bonus now and see tomorrow what i do in VOA 25 Toravon, thats a good boss to check it out on. I was usually on bout 8k on him so im hoping for above 10K now.

And i will try to chill with the button spamming.

GS is 5922 now btw.

And i replaced my Bryntroll with the Shadows edge and kept the Ramaladnis cause it has Arp. Think i did the right thing there.

Check ya guys later!

Rabbia
06-09-2010, 12:12 AM
Okay well some great drops/pickups there and now you are 100% Arm Pen you can see the difference. Good going.

With the legs - Although Sanct Legs are BIS, Legplates of Painful Death are significantly better in themselves. Meaning, you want the Expertise with all the other BIS items (non heroic) AND of course you want the 4 set bonus. Sanct Legs have about...3 points I think more Strength, but one less gem slot, plus the Arm Pen on L of PD is huge, so you can put that to other things, even Expertise if you had to, and still be ahead. So all up, it will depend on where you Expertise sits now, in terms of which ones you go for. Just to be clear - say you had to gem for 40 expertise....you'd still be 52 ahead to use on Strength gems in other slots (because you'd already have Arm Pen from the L of PD legs)

As for your OH, it's no contest. Bryntoll is a hopeless OH as the proc occurs far less - only on WW I think - than it does as MH. So that makes it much less of a weapon and it is not much of a stat stick - just some Strength. Use the Ram's for sure. Which is why I took the time to go through all that about the legs above. Remember you are fine with only 25 Expertise, which is about 205/8 points. Capped Expertise is about 25 point something, so we say 26 (214 points) to keep it simple.

All the best.

Zag
06-09-2010, 06:53 AM
Hey back for some info.

Did VOA25 today, had 8k on Toravon 25. Not good.

Dont see any real change compared to 70% arp.

I didnt use a flask btw.

Dunno why its so low while i did som high crits.

Maybe rotation?

Loganisis
06-09-2010, 08:09 AM
/combat log (I think) right before a fight.

Upload to WoL and link so those who can read those parses can help you?

MellvarTank
06-09-2010, 08:34 AM
/combatlog

no space.

Rabbia
06-09-2010, 10:09 PM
Lol this is getting to be a bad habit.

Looking at your gear now, it's improved even more than you indicated above I think as you now have 4 piece with 2 Sanct - stick with those obviously. Your ranged is much better, even though it's a lower item level than the higher badge one you had before. Bracers are good, subject to what I'll say below. Belt much better - the other is no good for Fury.

The major problem with your gearing now is that you are under the Hit cap at 149. You must be 164. You also have too much expertise at 31, which means considerable wastage in terms of stats you could direct elsewhere if your gear choices allow it. You are over on Arm Pen now also - once you eat your Hearty Rhino you will be 12 points over cap. You should take your Nightmare Tear out of your neck and put it into your chest, as the bonus is higher there. You have one slot you could change to Arm Pen if need be, in your cloak. The rest (those that are relevant) are all Arm Pen.

So.... Zag there is no way under the sun with this level gear that you will not see a huge difference, 70% Arm Pen compared with 100% Arm Pen - no other way to put it. At the same time it's vital you fix that Hit cap, as that will cost you more than anything else. From memory, you have the Polar Bear Claw Bracers. These have more than enough hit you need, plus good Strength, albeit with no Arm Pen other than what you can gem - same as on the current. So you'd lose 50 Arm Pen on the changeover, but you could regem your cloak to Arm Pen and allowing for the surplus you have now, you'd be...18 points shy of capped (actually 17 as the cap is 1399, but whatever). This is unless you can make up the hit in some other way, while keeping your other stats balanced - particularly say if you could somehow ditch some Expertise. I don't know all the gear you have available.

Nothing is as important as making sure your Hit and Expertise caps are as they should be, however boring that might be. A miss that would not occur if you were Hit capped will cost you significant dps, for example. All the rest come after.

Even after saying all that though, with your gear as I see it now 8k dps on Toravon 25 is....not good. I'm not sure when your DBW would have procced, or how often, but no way you shouldn't be over at least 10k. So as others have suggested, let's see the log.

Rabbia
06-09-2010, 11:52 PM
Aren't fury meant to only slam proc in their free gcd, as in, don't use it if it will push back ww/bt rotation? At least without 4 set t10.

No no this isn't right at all, although it is reasonably complicated I suppose.

If you want to read more than you may be able to cope with on this subject, then find the Fury Warrior's Compendium on EJ's - enough mathematics and the like to shake MIT to its foundations and may one day see Mars colonised, maybe.

Bear in mind my CORE rotation is BT/WW/BT, although Thegreatme (see his guide above) appears to be a WW(first)/BT fan. He says it makes no difference but I haven't thought that through and am not going to spend the time on it now. In any event I am speaking from my BT/WW/BT perspective, not the other.

I am trying to put this simply so.... You WILL push back either your BT or WW OR both, IF your Bloodsurge proc will fall off if you don't. The overall dps is higher that way. But a lot of things go into that. WHEN you work in the Slam will depend on WHEN it will fall off. So, you might BT/WW/BT, wait, BT THEN Slam, THEN WW/BT and so on, for example. Even things like your latency are critical here.

There's a lot more, but honestly if I get started on this I'd be here longer than I have right now. Just....weave in your Slams while delaying your basic BT/WW/BT as little as possible.

Zag
06-10-2010, 01:51 AM
Hey Rabbia,

thanx for ur info.

I did Lich King 10 yesterday and saw interesting stuff.

In phase one i held back on whirl cause of the adds so in one fight I spammed BT every time it was up, did nothing else for bout 45 seconds. Amazingly my dps rocketed to 9.5k wihout touching the other buttons but BT. I didnt use Deathwish and Recklessness either in those 45 seconds.

When i started using Whirl and Heroic strike i went back to 7.5k overall so I definately think my rage control isnt what its suposed to be.

I just dont know where to hold back or go all out.

Ill try again today on a dummy and see where the problem lies.

Never really spent that much time on my rage control tbh.

kemikalkadet
06-10-2010, 10:36 AM
Don't hold back on your whirlwinds in P1 LK, those adds don't hit for much at all and are like little rage batteries. I like to have one or two hitting on me so i'm always full on rage. Also, use your cooldowns on LK pretty much every time they're up. If you blow them right at the start of the fight, Deathwish should come back up right at the start of the transition phase. Mine usually comes back up right as the first raging spirit spawns which means we can burn it down nice and quick.

And yeah, proper rage control is what seperates the ok fury warriors from the great ones. Unfortunately you can't practice raid condition rage control on the dummies since you generate far less rage. Remember to use bloodrage and berserker rage liberally, bloodrage is off the CD so you can press it any time (i like to keep it on CD most of the time) and berserker rage can be fitted in to a free GCD (save it if the mob/boss fears for fear breaks).

Vlad
06-11-2010, 07:28 PM
Unfortunately you were in pvp gear when I looked, but whenever I hear anyone say the word gear score it just comes out like "Idon'tknowenoughaboutmyclassmechanicsandhavetoreso rttoamodthatproducesanarbitrarynumberthatismeaning less"
Most people under perform because of skill or experience.

Don't take this as a personal dig Zag, I have no idea why you're not ripping nighties in ICC.. mebbe the raid comp isn't optimal for you.
For everyone else, remember jebus sac's a kitten everytime someone installs GS.

Zag
06-12-2010, 02:22 AM
Well i bet a 5k gs can never outdps me.

GS means something.

Tinytankz
06-12-2010, 11:32 AM
Sir be careful what you say a BIS no raiding setup can in fact softcap ArP and put out numbers even with you.

Petninja
06-12-2010, 12:24 PM
Well i bet a 5k gs can never outdps me.

GS means something.

It's not that useful. I've found situations where it's helpful, but in general it's really probably not worth defending. If you like it feel free to use it, but keep in mind it generates a lot of hidden spam for both you and anyone else in your raid who has it installed (which results in latency, and framerate drops) and it can pretty easily give a worse item priority in your mind because it has a higher gearscore.

Also, I believe it's a net gain to switch to battle stance for Shattering Throw just before Bloodlust/Heroism. Not a personal gain, but across the whole raid it is.

Vlad
06-12-2010, 03:47 PM
Well i bet a 5k gs can never outdps me.

GS means something.

Seriously it means nothing at all, especially since anyone can get decent gear through badges etc.
GS isn't theorycrafting, it's just an arbitrary number.. say I kit your warrior out in random gear that reachs 6k GS but has no bearing on things like hit, arp etc etc? better dps or worse? Hell even alot of tier gear isn't worth a damn.. just look at DK t10 legs (lol?).
You have to balance your playstyle, stats, current set bonuses, consumables blah blah..
Warriors are really fantastic raid dps right now, for example we have a casual raider who runs 13-14k dps in a straight out, single target dps race in arms. He doesn't have any gear that is better than 264 thats for sure but he clearly understands his class.

Anyways perhaps you could try an arms spec? it might suit your playstyle better.

SeptimX
06-12-2010, 08:19 PM
higher GS doesn't always mean better stats obtained... sometimes lower GS item serves me better... balance and knowing your class and playstyle and more experience will win.

Loganisis
06-14-2010, 09:43 AM
Well i bet a 5k gs can never outdps me.

GS means something.

It does mean something, but it's like looking at a foggy mirror. It gives you an idea of the picture, but not necessarily a great picture. Replacing gear with higher ilvl PvP gear raises gear score but lowers output. Darkmoon:Greatness+90 Str is better than most other trinkets out there despite it's 'only' ilvl 200. GS must always be taken with a grain of salt.

A player who knows their rotation and picked smartly with upgrades may only have a GS of 5300 but could easily out DPS a player with a GS of 5900 who doesn't understand their rotation/picked the highest ilvl gear without looking at the actual benefits.

***

Now it may be Zag knows his rotation and thus if he's at 5900 GS it would very highly unlikely that any 5000 GS player would out DPS him. But that's not so much becasue of the gear, but because of the player skill.

Production = Gear * (X^Player Skill)

Or gear gives you a baseline, but the ability of the player can drastically change the production, gear being equal. Player skill is far more meaningful than gear score and far more complicated to try to quantify.

SeptimX
06-14-2010, 07:43 PM
hmm, next thing we'll compare, would be how many keyboards we mashed because of gaming... :)

Zag
06-15-2010, 01:44 AM
Well Ive done ICC25 last night.

Seen good improvement on dps starting with Marrowgar. At some point i was top dps on him.

Ive been waiting 1 second before using the next ability checkin my ragebar. Usually i pressed the next button instantly. This really helps to get higher crits.
Another thing i changed is not using bloodrage or Berserker rage that much or not at all.
This way i can manage to dump some rage for my white hits to give me rage for the next ability.

In some fights i try to use heroic strike as rarely as possible though i think i could use it more often to increase dps.

Ive tried to download the client from worldoflogs to put up my live fights but somehow my windows doesnt know the extension . jnlp which is required to download the client.

Anyway ill keep u up to date.

Bung
06-15-2010, 06:07 AM
I just checked out your armory. It looks very good to me. I would only suggest that you switch out your ashen ring for the agility one which is better for warriors. At some point too you might want to re spec slightly. You will find that improved rend, tactical mastery, piercing howl, and heroic fury are all useful talents for fury warriors. Not to say your spec is bad, it's fine. I would think you do enough damage to generate rage and basically spam heroic strike at this point. Only on single targets of course, and not when whirlwind and bloodthirst are avail.