View Full Version : Tanking What percentage damage should I be taking as a tank in heroics?
06-01-2010, 03:22 PM
Just got a DK to 80 and decided to dual-spec as a tank thanks to insta-queues for dungeons. My main is a Warrior that tanked through B.T. pre-wrath so I felt it wouldn't be that big of an issue. Threat seems to be a bit of an problem but I'm hoping as I gear up it won't continue to be that way. My question lies in the fact that it seems the 4 other members of my groups are taking too much damage. Looking at recount after bosses / mob pulls I only take 50-60 % of the damage, with the other split amongst the party. This seems like too much damage that I'm not controlling. I know some bosses / mobs have aoe that I can't do anything about, but what percentage of damage should I be striving to take?
06-01-2010, 03:27 PM
I'm glad someone asked this. Personally, leveling, I can usually take 70%+. Did that with my pally, bear and warrior. I find, however, that in a lot of heroics, I am 50-65%. I think there really is a lot of damage you just can't absorb for the group.
Interested to hear other tanks chime in on this.
06-01-2010, 03:34 PM
Generally, just try to hold aggro. Sometimes DPS are very very uncooperative, but the MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do as a tank is to always keep everything off your healer. If I'm not getting beaten on, I can brute force heal the party through some pretty ugly situations. Some healers can be very panicky when stuff is on them, and start running away from the mobs, which is always a terrible idea--if stuff is getting healing aggro at the beginning and the healer is kiting them away from you, ask nicely for them to run the mob into DnD/consecrate/swipe/thunderclap to make your life easier.
Using Tidy Plates: Threat Plates will allow you to see super easily what mobs you do or don't have aggro on. I also keep HB open even on my bear for buffing and for keeping track of aggro and damage taken. If the healer has flashing red lines above and below their bar, I know to go grab whatever is on them. But sometimes its honestly impossible to keep everything off the DPS, as they don't bother to control their threat.
06-01-2010, 03:41 PM
That's why I found the question to be interesting. I do hold aggro. Especially on my main, prot pally, never in a heroic do I not have control. I can't remember the last time a mob was aggro'ed on anyone else for more than 2 seconds. Still, my damage taken is typically in the 52-65% range. Occasionally, I will go back into the 70% range and when I do, it makes me wonder if I was not doing something right on the other runs. It's not like I ever have wipes, just wanting to "maximize" my performance and this seems like the best "recountable" number for that. Not a meter slave, just trying to analyze my performance.
06-01-2010, 04:39 PM
If you take less damage (ie. outgear an encounter) one hit will be a significantly higher percentage. So realistically, as long as you take the majority of damage you are good. However if DPS is dying, you are not doing good.
06-01-2010, 05:12 PM
Remember your absorbing roughly 50% of the damage that hits you in an (heroic 5man) encounter thanks to armor, block, parry, dodge, various magic effects. The majority of your group takes 20k damage from a 20k hit.
Or maybe I'm understanding the question wrong. Or how recount works.
06-01-2010, 09:15 PM
hmm should we assume that as tanks holding most aggro on us, that 70 to 80% damage taken is normal for us, and that if it was less than 50% i would say that i fail as a tank to hold aggro... my only downside to tanking is the repair bill/s :(
06-01-2010, 09:16 PM
Some mobs do AoE damage and there is no way to realistically expect to absorb that for the group.
06-02-2010, 04:48 AM
Since having installed ThreatPlates I have noticed that this differs greatly between dungeons. In many of them there is so much random damage that you cant do much about. There are dungeons where say 80% is the maximum but there are also places where it is difficult to get above 60%. Also keep in mind what previous posters have said, you take a lot less damage than others do. Added to this a lot of the damage that isnt tied to whoever has aggro is avoidable by the dps and healer (moving, interrupting and prob much more).
I have been in some HCs since I installed ThreatPlates where dps have complained about me not holding aggro where I knew this wasnt true.
In the end it depends a lot on the group also. Sure holding aggro on say 5 mobs while they are beeing AoEd down shouldnt be a big problem for most tanks but holding aggro on the same 5 mobs where the three dps single target different targets is way harder.
Speaking as someone who has healed and tanked all the heorics, dps generally do take a fair amount of damage from aoe moves, dots, poisons etc - to be honest if they didn't it would get boring for the healer! As long as you're keeping aggro don't worry about it unless the healer complains. That damage is probably the only thing keeping them awake :)
The percentage numbers in Recount are bs.
Consider this: let's assume you have 50% damage mitigation. You have a DPS with 0% damage mitigation.
You get hit twice, DPS gets hit once. Both of you get the same damage after mitigation. You took 2 hits, DPS once, but you took 50% damage while DPS did take the same. Whenever you see some percentage figures you have to understand what to do with them.
How much damage DPS takes ist up to them and depends on the instance. If they stand in the wrong spots, get cleaved, WWedo and so on then that's something they do wrong. Well possibly apart from the cleave, you always tank everything away from the group, do you?
In the end the only thing that really counts is that nobody undeservedly died and everybody got his loot/badges with as little effort as possible.
That being said, depending on the instance I have 80%-40% damage taken. Since I'm running wit over 35k armor and are meticulously using spell reflect, interrupts, stuns, shield wall...this should translate to everybody in the group got hit by AoE once or something.
06-02-2010, 06:55 AM
As an aside, with your other concern, your threat won't get better as you gear up if it's currently bad. Work on buttoning up your rotation and mouse movement instead.
06-02-2010, 08:10 AM
Things you can do to help with group damage.
1. Maintain Agro
2. Turn bosses and adds around. This will help on damage if mobs have a cleave/spray ability
3. Help with interrupts. I know a few heroics(I'm looking at you Halls of Lightning) Where a well placed HoJ or Mind Freeze will prevent some major damage.
4. For tanks that can, assist with dispells. If you are a tank that can dispell(Looking at you Paladins) go get decursive addon.
5. Many classes have abilities that absorb/redirect/prevent damage to raid members. Anti Magic Zone, Divine Sacrifice, Hand of Protection, Hand of Sacrifice. Use these often
6. Mark Mobs that drop their agro table and focus raid members with a skull.
06-02-2010, 08:26 AM
A lot depends on the fight/group too. HoL - is anyone interrupting the whirlwinding dwarves? If not, DPS will be taking extra damage. What AoE attacks are being made? Are there mostly clothies who take damage from pebbles? Did someone stand on a piece of colored ground (almost universally bad)?
If you're keeping aggro and interrupting what you can... it's up to the rest of the part to figure out how not to walk into AoE damage, stand on colored patches of dirt, and do other, non-optimal things.