View Full Version : The Weekly Marmot -- Raiding With a Life

06-01-2010, 02:55 AM

http://www.tankspot.com/snowfall/donorbanner.jpg (http://www.tankspot.com/premium.php)

06-01-2010, 03:59 AM
/e is now stalking Lore on twitter

06-01-2010, 04:46 AM
An important thing to note here to save time is to learn to be a good player as part of a team. I have absolutely no hard data on this but... Regarding time spent raiding: Top progression guilds burst through progression phase and move faster to farm phase. Achieving the farm phase faster also equals less time raiding per week.

In my old guild we had 4-5 raids per week each lasting around 5 hours. This particular guild never got to clear end content before next tier was introduced. Hence we ended up doing that 4-5 raids each week always. The strain on players caused burnouts and several roster changes.

Current guild raids 1-3 times a week with full clears and raids lasting around 2-4 hours max.

This may be a daring comment but... "bad" (let's just say that I mean slower progression) guilds end up raiding more.

Personal experience
From 20-25 hours of constant "progression" raiding to 6-12 hours of farm raiding is a huge difference. Now I have more time to do funny things in Wow as well. :)

06-01-2010, 05:09 AM
Awesome marmot as always. and the topic is something everyone should be aware of.

One thing I'd also say is if you're going to raid whilst having a life (or at least a job and other things that you do outside of WoW. Debatable on if what I have can be considered a 'life'.) you MAY need to...well, I guess the blunt phrase is lower your expectations a bit.

Not to say that someone raiding with a life will never, ever clear bleeding-edge content. But it can and is more difficult to do so when you have other stuff going on. Especially when you log on and you've had a long day filled with not just work but other things. I know when I've had those days, my enthusiasm for raiding and dealing with the issues involved with that can sometimes be low. The moment I think to myself 'wow that was a long day! but now I have to go home and raid...urgh....but I told them I'd be there, so...'

Yeah...I know I need to not be going. If it's gonna be a chore for me, even if it's only for that night, I shouldn't be pulling everyone down like that.

The solution I found, was.....well, like I said you can basically call it lowering my expectations. I sat in front of my computer, mulled it over, and realized that I'd seen Icecrown. I'd gone where casuals and other raiders dream of going. and I'd cleared bosses. Did I get Kingslayer? no. Not a bleedin' chance. Did I have fun? sure.

the latter half was what I latched onto and made my goal: to play however I have fun playing. If I wanna take a leisurely stroll through heroics instead of grinding away at a madman's pace just to get one step closer to MAYBE downing LK, I can do that. If I wanna be pro and awesome and raid with all my might and be serious raider is serious, I can do that. If I wanna do absolutely nothing at all but mine or skin mobs or whatever and relax? Yeah. I do that too.

Sure, on the flipside I don't do much raiding. But the competitive environment, competing so hard and fighting so much to gain just a little of an edge...it was just so very wearing. If you have kids and a life even beyond your job it can only be even moreso unless you're a highly competitive person.

So yeah...before you go and organize your life and find time to fit raiding in around your life, take stock of what you've done outside of the competitive environment of the game (having guildies talking about setting up a raid may influence your thinking, causing you not to think about it honestly) and decide if raiding more than once or twice a week is really worth it anymore. Or if it's worth it to raid at all. Plenty of hardcores 'retire' only to come back when they're not so burnt out. I expect for many it's not that there's nothing left to do so much as they've burned themselves out in a race to be the best.

06-01-2010, 06:00 AM
"Sit down, figure out your priorities"

Very good idea ! For those of you doing that .. here's a hint: it's not WoW =)

Mr Sims
06-01-2010, 06:20 AM
Brushing your cow rofl !!! that was epic funniest episode yet.

06-01-2010, 06:22 AM
Brb waxing cat

06-01-2010, 07:07 AM
Sorry.. I was busy waxing my cat when this video came on.. I got a little carried away and now look what happened!!! I blame you LORE for ruining my cats life..



06-01-2010, 08:18 AM
"waxing your cat"
"brushing your cow"
"teeth wax"
"tooth cancer"

Sigh. This is why I love Weekly Marmot. Thanks for the usual entertainment!

06-01-2010, 10:01 AM
I have a life. 40 plus hours a week at a demanding job. A 40 minute commute.. each way. I am married to a wonderful woman who likes to spend time with me. I am an artist, photographer, musician, and I am working on recording a CD. My wife and I hike a lot.. not your sissy two mile little trips... 15, 16, 19, 22 mile day trips and overnight, strenuous sometimes dangerous, hikes. We play pool. We also go out to clubs and hang out.

I still raid. In fact I lead a ten man, we are at the LK. We have not downed him yet but are solidly into phase 2. I also main tank for a 25 man. We are well into most of the bosses in the second wing.

you can have a life and raid.

Like Lore said "you need to sit down and find your priorities". You can raid and get to the end bosses... although you might not get there as fast as some. to put it into time perspective, I raid 3 nights a week.... 1 night for the ten man.. two nights for the 25 man. 3 hours each night... well 3 and a half with invites and prep time.
My wife also raids when she can "priorities" she ends her account when he schooling gets busy, then restarts when she can.
In my guild we have mostly professionals, programmers, artists, network technicians, students at the university level, Fathers, Mothers, Grandfathers, Grandmothers, Hotel management, and the list goes on and on.

Something Lore did not mention but I think is very important: You need to figure out why you want to raid. Some reasons will not drive you to the end bosses. If all you want is gear, you will tire of it after your guild or group gets stuck at the same bosses for a few months. If your goal is to see content you might last a little longer. If your goal is to have fun, work with a group to get to the end no matter how many months and see content and get gear you will probably last a lot longer. (this is of course my opinion)

I raid for a few more reasons. I like to lead.... I am told I am decently good at it. I like the challenge of motivating people, working with them to improve and the reward of sharing there joy, our joy, and yes my joy when we accomplish the goals we set for ourselves.

One last note. In our guild, in our raids both my ten man and the 25 man we have one overriding rule. "RL > WOW" period no exceptions. (That's Real Life more important than World of War-craft)

06-01-2010, 10:22 AM
Recently my guild has taken a break form raiding. Be it player burnout, not liking who you are raiding with, or in just general disgust with progression. I find myself in a difficult situation. I am a frost death knight, and good one at that, but as most melee dps know it is hard or sometimes almost impossible to get into raids or even a raiding guild. I was just wondering if you might have any tips on ways to make yourself a little bit more marketable. I have applied to so many guilds it is sick. I am becoming so frustrated that i am contemplating quitting, but at the same time i do not want to get my ICC achieves after it becomes a stupid dungeon that people only farm for the dungeon completed achievement.

06-01-2010, 10:26 AM
Lol. "life"
No such thing exists.
I am a tauren.

06-01-2010, 10:48 AM
What many people do not know is Lore is a pitch man for:


06-01-2010, 10:51 AM
Its not about how much time you spend playing. Its what you do with your time while you are playing.

06-01-2010, 12:08 PM
I have too much time to spare :<

I raid without a life, proudly.

06-01-2010, 01:19 PM
I work 59 hours a week, live with my girlfriend (no kids, thankfully!), and make time to hang out with friends a few times a week and practice guitar. It limits my availability for raiding, but I have a guild that only raids 2-3 nights a week for ~3 hours, and they understand if I'm late because of work or can't make it for whatever reason.

You can raid and get to the end bosses... although you might not get there as fast as some.
This is a very important point that gets missed by sooooo many raiders. Raiding doesn't have to be a race. Some people like to make raiding into a competition and go for world firsts, but only 25 people actually achieve that world first. Does that mean that everybody else except those 25 people loses the game? Absolutely not. Too often I have heard somebody freak out and rage quit because, "such and such guild cleared this instance months ago and we're only halfway through".

Another one that drives me nuts is when a raid night falls on a holiday and people get bent out of shape because not enough raiders showed up and the raid was canceled. I had an officer bitch me out for not showing up to raid on St. Patrick's Day one time. My response was, "you didn't want me raiding with the state I was in last night". It's not like a night or two of missed raiding is going to allow the Lich King to actually win and destroy the world... of warcraft.

06-01-2010, 02:24 PM
"Sit down, figure out your priorities"

Very good idea ! For those of you doing that .. here's a hint: it's not WoW =)

idd its just a game. ofc if you have much spare time that you cant do anything with and you enjoy playing this game the just play it but you srsly cant ruin your life couse of this, after all its just a game.

06-01-2010, 03:42 PM
idd its just a game. ofc if you have much spare time that you cant do anything with and you enjoy playing this game the just play it but you srsly cant ruin your life couse of this, after all its just a game.

Totally lost you with the "idd" and "ofc." Your chat lingo is too much for my brain to handle.

And this was a very helpful episode for me. I've raided and had to deactivate so many times because I've found myself starting to do poorly in classes (and in life in general). It is EXTREMELY hard for me to balance WoW, and other video games in general, with the rest of my life. But this episode made me think about how to balance my life again. Hopefully I'll find something that works for me and pull through.

06-01-2010, 04:47 PM
This marmot hits right on with my guild, well expect maybe waxing the cat. We have people from all over, with all different hours and we still manage to raid ICC. We classify ourselves as Casual Raiders, but that doesn't mean we aren't progressing. We only do 10 man guild runs, and we have people who pug raids all the time when we are short on people for our raid night. That still doesn't keep us from having fun as a guild, and getting the content down. It won't be long and we will be at LK, and even though there are Kingslayers on our server, we still feel like we are on track to get ICC on farm before Cata. Now if my damn trinkets will just drop for me. :)

06-02-2010, 02:48 AM
Great episode, thanks!
Interesting theme and very good implementation of it in the episode.

06-02-2010, 11:11 AM
Lore, do you have a waxing fetish?

06-03-2010, 02:44 PM
This is the most insightful video post I've ever watched with regard to raiding. Thank you.

06-06-2010, 07:13 AM
My Guild is raiding from 11:45 p.m to 3 o'clock a.m.
We're designed for people that are at work when a normal raid would go raiding. We're not one of the best guilds but we can compare with most normal guilds on our server. We have 9 from 12 bosses killed in hardmode and are looking forward to put putricide in the dust.
My guild was founded in 2007 in burning crusade. I've seen almost all of the content. kara ssc tk hyjal bt and the first 3 bosses of sunwell. in wotlk we havent been able to do all hardmodes but as i said we're not a real progression guild and are doing quite fine. I know of at least 2 or 3 other guilds with comparable raiding times.

So I think this is a good example that you can raid and have a life.

06-06-2010, 09:17 PM

http://www.tankspot.com/snowfall/donorbanner.jpg (http://www.tankspot.com/premium.php)

I agree completely and I really don't understand why there are mysteriously so many people "just coming back to wow" but they suddenly have a girlfriend and job which somehow doesn't leave them a few hours a week to raid, honestly I think whiners like this are just looking for attention. I'm one of the tanks for my guild which means my showing up is more crucial than some dps showing up and I manage to not dissapoint. I'll admit I work from home but even when I was in school with homework and studys I had enough time to get on, not that hard.

06-08-2010, 08:16 AM
There are actually some pugs that are VERY sucessful... On my Server US-Scilla, there is a weekly pug ICC25 each thurs, fri, sat, and sun now. The Thursday and Sunday pugs are at Lich King, the Friday pug is 9/12 HM ICC25 with full clear, and the Saturday pug is 5/12 HM ICC25 with full clear... I know this is NOT normal for most servers, but you can create good pugs!!!! Heck, these pugs are better than most guilds on our server. These pugs are hosted by our guild (WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp, you can youtube 'WLPH' and find the fri and sat pug group's LK kills if u want proof), but all you really need to do is set a time/day and say that this group will be ran each week. Set up sign ups of some sort, advertise about it in trade, and take the BEST that sign up. As the group progresses, you'll figure out which players not to bring, which players are consistent in coming, and which ones can't be counted on. Try to bring the same ppl each week when possible (if they are good) and your group will end up progressing LIKE a guild raid! The pugs I spoke of raid for ~4 hrs on that specific night, so it's not a huge time sink. Just I've found you have a better chance at getting good players if it's a non-raid night for most guilds... Many main raiders of good guilds have alts that are geared and are played VERY well, and these are the ones that will help carry the group to the end of the content.

Hopefully this lil tidbit helps out on some other servers ^_^ GOOD LUCK with your raiding endeavors!!!

06-08-2010, 10:55 AM
I found this a very interesting discussion, really enjoyed this week's WM. Good job Lore, and keep it up!


06-08-2010, 03:14 PM
Well for one I have a Maine Coon and I dont think he will let me wax him.I agree with folk having a good raiding sceduale so they can have an active regular life,but in my case I want to raid more but cant seem to find the right guild and folks on Runetotem who want to put forth the effort to acheive higher content.I am in awe of folks who have already completed ICC25H or 10H.Hell we cant even get by Sindragose on10 man we need a good Tank heals.So be it.Folk play wow but make sure you have a regular life to.Except waxing the cat!