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View Full Version : Warrior Do I Have to Punish the Rest of the Party



Jup
05-31-2010, 04:50 AM
Iím trying to learn to tank. Iíve a 71st level warrior that Iíve leveled solo till this point.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=shadow+council&cn=jup (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=shadow+council&cn=jup)
I found this site and started pouring over the various threads. I changed my UI, remapped my keys, learned proper rotation and, studied the dungeons that Iím eligible for. GulpÖ. Time to do the deed.
I entered the queue and was thrown into the last fight of Nexus. Iím not sure if was just nerves or having to constantly jump during the fight maybe Iím just not geared well enough for the fight. Started fumbling rotation, couldnít keep my eyes off the action bar and, the info from Omen disappears so fast that Iím not sure how well or if I was holding threat. Needless to say we wiped
Round two: Still felt like I was fumbling keystrokes with eyes glued to the action bar to keep track of GCD, but was able to keep slightly more mobile and downed the dragon right after he downed me. Hazah!
I had let the everyone know that it was my first time tanking but, that being said do I have to keep punishing these four random people till I get the hang of it?

MaŤl
05-31-2010, 05:15 AM
Stick with it. You will wipe a couple of parties until you get the hang of it.

A word of advice, tho. Pugged DPS in the daily heroics propably outgear you and they never, ever control their threat. So you will have to develop a very thick skin.
Once you have tanked yourself to complete T9 and a couple of frost badged off-set pieces you will be a seasoned veteran of many battles.

Trust me, the pugs punish you more than you punish them.
...and begin hoarding gold. Once you've hit 80 it's time to go shopping. Having the crafted helmet, chest, bracers, shield, gun and boots sitting there waiting for you is a great incentive. With these you outgear the old content. Once you have mastered TOC/5 in normal mode it's time to seriously go to work.

Another thing that builds confidence is having good buff food and flasks handy. Since tanks have no queue time, flasking really helps. But as I said, having crafted epics sitting there, waiting for you is a great incentive. Also, since you are currently leveling up blacksmithing, the blue saronite set is AWESOME! If you are like me you should constantly scan the AH for the recipies for the ilvl245 bracers and chest. There is nothing like having your own nametag on your own gear. Those two will last you a long time.

Passive
05-31-2010, 05:31 AM
Sometimes I can't be bothered tanking heroics and just go in my fury gear. My fury gear is pretty decent (mostly 264, a few 277s) and most tanks can't hold threat off me. But I know thats its me who is technically "in the wrong" and if its a more challenging instance, such as one of the new icecrown ones, I will hold right back and let the tank take agro. This is just to say that if DPS aren't letting you learn to tank and do your job properly then its most definitely the rest of your party punishing you, not the other way round.

Nurasha
05-31-2010, 06:11 AM
You have to learn somehow so: yes. You're not punishing them for dying. The DPS can stop attacking to let you maintain aggro and the healer can heal more. Exactly letting people know you're a newbie will almost always give you at least one party member's compassion.
Here's how you learn:
-Try
-Fail
-Wipe
- (repeat x times)
-Try
-Succeed
-Win

PatrikL
05-31-2010, 06:40 AM
Sometimes I can't be bothered tanking heroics and just go in my fury gear. My fury gear is pretty decent (mostly 264, a few 277s) and most tanks can't hold threat off me. But I know thats its me who is technically "in the wrong" and if its a more challenging instance, such as one of the new icecrown ones, I will hold right back and let the tank take agro. This is just to say that if DPS aren't letting you learn to tank and do your job properly then its most definitely the rest of your party punishing you, not the other way round.

I'd say this behaviour is perfectly alright as long as you dont complain about the tank not beeing able to hold aggro :-) And you could prob even mention this to the tank as you start so he doesnt feel to bad about it.
As a frost dps dk I dont really expect pug tanks to be able to hold aggro unless I hold back either unless they are equally geared or better but sadly even then I often run into problems. Had a run yesterday with a very well geared (much better than me) warrior tank who was only producing around 4-5k TPS on bosses but I'm guessing he must have done something seriously wrong? I checked my own theat when takning a bit later on and was quite stable around 7k with spikes up to 15k at least if I felt like I needed to get a bit ahead. This was Ulduar btw, not ICC.

Metasynaptic
05-31-2010, 08:30 AM
This week I started a new hunter. Level 26 or so now. He 9/10 times tops the meters, and invariably strips agro from the tanks. But here's the thing. I have an ICC level warrior tank. I know how to tank. At this level, my pet and I are quite capable of tanking down one mob, usually more. I'm regularly doing double the dps of other dps in the party, so I down my mobs fast. I'm actually making the tank's job easier.

But I get leavers. I think they feel inadequate. So I just keep tanking with my pet until a new tank shows up, and keep doing the same thing.

I'm in the wrong, I guess, but the healers never complain.

Eventually, a real tank shows up that I can't strip agro from, and everything goes like normal.

sifuedition
06-01-2010, 09:02 AM
This week I started a new hunter. Level 26 or so now. He 9/10 times tops the meters, and invariably strips agro from the tanks. But here's the thing. I have an ICC level warrior tank. I know how to tank. At this level, my pet and I are quite capable of tanking down one mob, usually more. I'm regularly doing double the dps of other dps in the party, so I down my mobs fast. I'm actually making the tank's job easier.

But I get leavers. I think they feel inadequate. So I just keep tanking with my pet until a new tank shows up, and keep doing the same thing.

I'm in the wrong, I guess, but the healers never complain.

Eventually, a real tank shows up that I can't strip agro from, and everything goes like normal.

I won't say that you are "wrong" for this. I will say, however, IMO, it would be better to help the new tanks learn how to do it. If they are leaving when you are not wiping, it is because they really WANT to do it well and do it right and feel that you are not giving them the chance. Let's encourage new tanks to be good and help them develop. In the end, I think it benefits us all.

Errvalunia
06-01-2010, 09:15 AM
This week I started a new hunter. Level 26 or so now. He 9/10 times tops the meters, and invariably strips agro from the tanks. But here's the thing. I have an ICC level warrior tank. I know how to tank. At this level, my pet and I are quite capable of tanking down one mob, usually more. I'm regularly doing double the dps of other dps in the party, so I down my mobs fast. I'm actually making the tank's job easier.

But I get leavers. I think they feel inadequate. So I just keep tanking with my pet until a new tank shows up, and keep doing the same thing.

I'm in the wrong, I guess, but the healers never complain.

Eventually, a real tank shows up that I can't strip agro from, and everything goes like normal.

The problem then is that, when you're trying to learn to do something properly and other people absolutely REFUSE to let you, it is extremely frustrating. When DPS care more about omg meterz than letting me try and tank and control the mobs, pull them back, group them up for swipe, etc and I spend half the time running around after them--when one of them inevitably flees because no one was focus-firing the rogue's crippling poison target like I told them to and runs into a huge pack of mobs and they run to the healer, and I don't have any rage because as a low level bear it's extremely easy to be rage-starved and EVERYTHING (charge... challenging roar... bash...) depends on having rage. Without rage, I can grab two mobs--but only if you'll let me, of course--with FFF and growl. And if you pull those mobs back off me, what can I do for the healer?

Jack squat.

You're not making their jobs easier; you're more likely making them froth with rage but they're too beaten down from all the OTHER huntards that they've just given up on ever trying to tank properly because no one will let them.

Todar
06-01-2010, 12:14 PM
Had one of these the other day. on my Holy Pally, went into Nexus, tank says " new to tanking bear with me". Ok I am the healer,


1) keep a closer eye on the tank
2) ignore the DPS QQin, that the tank can't hold threat

We got in, wiped a couple times, went through like 5-6 new DPS, but I stuck it out. an so did he.

Just keep at it, you will get better, yea DPS will outgear ya sometimes, just hang in there, do your job = Win

Tinytankz
06-01-2010, 01:43 PM
Hey man try grabbing this set
Cobalt Set (http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=39086:39085:39084:39083:39087:41974: 39088:41975)

Along with this Shield (http://www.wowhead.com/item=40668)

It will take 41 Bars and is makeable by any BS at 450 so just buy the bars and spam trade chat. will make it very hard for you to be crit and is well itemized for tanking :D

sifuedition
06-01-2010, 02:08 PM
I have a prot warrior in the works (lvl 60 atm) and so I am dealing with some of the issues you are. Some differences: I have a pally tank and I have leveled this warrior only tanking in LFD, so I have the generic tanking concepts and mechanics down as well as knowing the fights.

That being said, without a set "rotation" like the pally, I too have sometimes found myself tunnel-visioning on the action bar to know when an ability is available. This is what I am playing with to fix that. I installed Power Auras. I set up auras for when Shield Slam is available, when Revenge is available, when Thunderclap is available, when I have 50+ rage and when I have 75+ rage. This makes it easier to watch the fight and still see if revenge has proc'ed, if I have enough rage to cleave/heroic strike, etc. Also, I have installed Event Alert to warn me of SnB procs.

Trogdorrior
06-01-2010, 03:47 PM
For me, the key to being a successful tank in the beginning is to learn to not sweat the small stuff. It's just a game. Do your best, don't worry about missing a button or going outside your rotation. Chances are that a small screwup won't even register with the dps. If they do notice you messing up your rotation, then they should really be focusing on their own screen instead of yours.

Powerauras is also a godsend. I use it on ALL my toons and it makes things alot easier. Of course, most of my toons action bars are transparent until mouse over anyways because I have all my bindings memorized. Developing that sense of comfort and confidence is key, and you wont get to that point without messing up... alot.

Rednaw
06-01-2010, 06:00 PM
One thing that I've noticed about warrior tanking is that it is just plain ridiculous when it comes to the amount of things you have to pay attention to. Just stick with it and have fun try and find people that you enjoy running with, either because of good humor or w/e you enjoy friend them and go with it. I wish you best of luck and keep at it to become a good warrior tank is one of the most fulfilling accomplishments I've done on WoW. ^_^

Rednaw
06-01-2010, 06:01 PM
One more thing that I forgot. Get mik's scrolling battle text it is an INCREDIBLE help with procs and cooldowns ^_^

SeptimX
06-01-2010, 07:23 PM
I won't say that you are "wrong" for this. I will say, however, IMO, it would be better to help the new tanks learn how to do it. If they are leaving when you are not wiping, it is because they really WANT to do it well and do it right and feel that you are not giving them the chance. Let's encourage new tanks to be good and help them develop. In the end, I think it benefits us all.

probably the most helpful advice for 2week old tank. before obtaining my first 232 4pc only t9 tanking gear, i hear lots of complaints, now i have 549 def, not so much.

last night, i was with new healer and warlock (gs less that 4k), the lock has to much bravado and kept on pulling new mobs... wipe a few times, but in the end, i didn't give up on that group... even though my repair bills was high, i think it was still a fun run.

Raysere
06-02-2010, 09:54 AM
I think your main problem is your nerves. That will settle down in time, you just need to be confidant in what you are doing.

This might seem silly, but bear with me, try it. When you're out in the world questing, pretend you're in an instance. As you kill mobs, go through all the things you'd be doing if you were in Nexus, with those 4 others behind you. Use it as rehearsal time, get used to your abilities, the timing of your GCD, how mobs move with and around you and so on. When you get comfortable with that, you'll find yourself with more and more time to spend on being aware of your surroundings, and your other group members. Be methodical and logical. Do not panic. You can't keep control of the situation you are in if you aren't in control of yourself. Things DO go wrong, and they will go wrong regularly. A huge part of what differentiates a GOOD tank and a truly GREAT tank is how they handle themselves when things do not go as planned. Don't hesitate and second guess yourself, standing thinking 'Oh my, i've really overpulled here, I'm taking tonnes of damage and I don't think my healer can cope, I wonder if I should Shield Wall?' as you get pummeled into the ground doesn't help. Confidence in the split second decisions you make does. Sometimes you'll make the wrong choice. It happens. Learn from it, and don't make the same mistake twice. What's important is that you did make a choice, you tried and failed rather then doing nothing at all and still failing.

Keep trying, it's all about practice and confidence.

sifuedition
06-02-2010, 10:24 AM
Raysere has a good point and good suggestions. You need to practice the "mindset" of being in a group so it is second nature when you actually are.

Another point. Delaying a half-second or second to get it right, is better than immediately getting it wrong. An example of what I mean is when a mob takes off toward the squishies at the back. Making SURE you have the right mob targeted before you taunt, even if it means delaying a second, is better than waiting for a taunt cd because it didn't target when you clicked.

Don't get too pressured to be "instant" on everything. That will only vapor-lock you.

Slow is calm. Calm is controlled. Controlled is fast.

It seems a little counter intuitive, but sometimes slowing down a little is actually faster because it is more accurate and controlled.

Keep at it, the muscle memory builds with practice and will help a lot too.