PDA

View Full Version : Tanking Death knight tanking..5226 gs, not good enough for HPoS?



lyok0929
05-25-2010, 03:56 AM
Hey guyz, I am Tharic. I was looking for my thread I posted before...but I couldn't find it. Thanks for the people who answered. I have 1 more problem that popped up.

Great, I am using nice spec, good AoE consistency threat and nice HP boost (blood). But I was doing a heroic pit of saron, and then the healer went ' ZOMG YOU FAIL DK TANK YOU ARE TAKING TOO MUCH DMG' in the flame bearers ( The trashes after the Krick And Ick) part. he had 4.8k gs, and I died probably 3 times during the 4 trash waves and he removed me from the group. I never missed aggro, and my hp is over 44k buffed, 51% dodge+parry. Any suggestions or was that healer being a fail?

Mend
05-25-2010, 06:04 AM
An armory link would be great.

Frost is a bit better in 5-man dungeons, so try it out.

The trash after the 2nd boss can become very stressing if you dont deal with them properly, here's what you should try out as a DK:

1. Start the pull by going to the 1st flame bearer on the left side.

2. Silence the middle caster with strangulate, and death grip the other flame bearer.

3. Immediately use Anti-magic shell since you will take heavy disease and shadow bolt damage. If you are still having trouble pop a cooldown or summon your ghoul so you can death pact it for the instant 40% health back.

4. Interrupt the flame bearer with mind freeze when they cast hellfire.

4. Uninstall Gearscore addon as a tank.

uglybbtoo
05-25-2010, 09:25 AM
This is why we say gearscore means absolutely nothing and yes these mobs will spit even a well geared tank out if not done right.

As mend says you need to handle these packs properly.

The first 2 caster packs pulls are all about stopping the damage which comes in two main forms a nasty poison that shows as a green debuff and fire damage from fire balls that shows as small fireballs. Some healer types like pally's can cleanse it but really as mend says your job is to minimize the damage you are a caster tank specialist as a DK use your tools. You can also use army of the dead on one pack.

The second 2 packs have 2 casters tossing ice bolts and alot of melee. The melee apply a stacking armor debuff and the longer the fight goes on you feel like you are tanking in cloth. You need to save you CD's for popping when the debuff starts to hurt and make sure the debuff has worn off from the first pack before you pull the 2nd pack or it gets brutal.

This is the reason you can opt for tactic 2 which you will see even well geared tanks get chicken arsed and tell group to mount up soon as krick and ick are dead. You ride straight up to the top corner between the caster pack and the 2 melee packs now wait for the melee groups to come down. You can now sneak past the first melee group on the left by riding up onto the hill edge as high as you can. You now have only 1 pack to deal with.

To me this is a bit like the haxx that used to exist in H-HOR by staying behind LK. Expect blizzard to patch this sometime soon but for now it works.

Assuming you want to become a better tank it is worth the time to learn to handle them properly.

Skill >>>>> GS you just learnt the hard way.

Banterloft
05-25-2010, 10:20 AM
As far as I know they already fixed the HHOR glitch.

As a blood tank I drop DnD on the far mob and dg the other to me. Turn them with the caster in the center marked as skull. Silence skull and she is burnt down quickly. Then mark the flames with skull and X. Interupt the flames and take the hits. Its also a good idea to bring your ghoul out on the first fight and hover that mouse over sacrifice for the health refill if needed. On the second, use your CDs and such. They aren't just their for boss fights.

Nurasha
05-25-2010, 12:56 PM
Blowing IBF/Vamp, Strangulate and Mind Freezing here really does the thing.

Gear is bogus. Using abilities wisely saves the day and doesn't increase the healer's chance of getting a stroke :)

Theotherone
05-25-2010, 01:15 PM
Fail healer, simple as that.

MellvarTank
05-25-2010, 03:25 PM
If some healer said that to me I'd be inclined to pull both groups of mobs and drop group.

Selene
05-25-2010, 06:24 PM
I'm sure all tanks will agree with me, Gearscore means nothing for tanks.

Yep, I have had an OT with about 5k GS that did way better than one that had about 5.5k GS. Both were warriors.
Hell the 5k GS one was able to tank the boss on the gunship in ICC10.

Frostmounre
05-25-2010, 06:56 PM
Ob voiusly the healer was a failure

Frostmounre
05-25-2010, 06:57 PM
GS mean nothing i got a 5300 gs dk trank frost got through rotface 25 man now wipes perfect

uglybbtoo
05-27-2010, 01:24 AM
Fail healer, simple as that.

Thats a bit hard we don't know the exact situation and how well geared the healer was.

If he has the posion debuff and 2 stacks of the fire plus standing in hellfire he is going to be pretty near on impossible to heal SIMPLE AS THAT.

v6Max
05-27-2010, 02:18 AM
No one has mentioned, but it may be worth doing so, always look at the group and see what CC options they give you. The initial pull on both of the first two packs will be a damage limitation exercise and will push both you and the healer. If you can get one of the group to take one of the casters out of the equation, even if only for a short time, it can be a massive help.

Also, in addition to the poison and fire the mobs have a habit of porting just behind you - with all that "stuff" happening you can easily start taking significant amounts of damage from a mob standing behind you who can neither dodge or parry.

Normally I mark the left hand caster and the right hand caster (largely ignoring the humanoid in the middle), get the group member with CC options to silence etc the right hand mob then lay down a DnD that catches all bar the right hand caster in it's aura. Standard disease setup and get AMS up as soon as possible - be hot on the interupts but again push for the group to help you - it's in their interest for you to stay alive.

The pulls can change from a complete nightmare of damage, healers complaining and random DPS dying to a controlled pull with only a little co-operation from the rest of the group. If you have to deal with it all on your own it can be done but the opening part is key; getting AMS up, silencing the casters etc.

Theotherone
05-27-2010, 08:23 AM
Thats a bit hard we don't know the exact situation and how well geared the healer was.

If he has the posion debuff and 2 stacks of the fire plus standing in hellfire he is going to be pretty near on impossible to heal SIMPLE AS THAT.

Please, it's H PoS; he said the healer was 4.8k gs, if they can't heal through that and cleanse when necessary then they should go back and practice in H UK for a bit. Typical blame the tank attitude ("oh, the tank with 44k hp is too hard to heal" and the answer is "no, maybe you should spec dps, 'cause you suck at healing"); gets real old after a while.

Kyoki
05-27-2010, 08:30 AM
Your healer was a moron and your dps were probably to stupid to kill the flamebearers first and were trying to aoe. Really you should just have been blowing cooldown every pull after the first time you died. Most people in pugs these days are actually really really bad because they have only played with overgeared players and never actually did content with a group that isnt 2 tiers above it.

Volador
05-27-2010, 08:30 AM
Please, it's H PoS; he said the healer was 4.8k gs, if they can't heal through that and cleanse when necessary then they should go back and practice in H UK for a bit. Typical blame the tank attitude ("oh, the tank with 44k hp is too hard to heal" and the answer is "no, maybe you should spec dps, 'cause you suck at healing"); gets real old after a while.

Maybe the healer and the tank were both equally at fault, or the DPS that didn't interrupt was at fault? In this situation, we don't know anything at all about the group composition. The healer was PROBABLY wrong to blame the tank in this situation, but to say it's the healer's fault is equally as wrong. Mediocre performance from everyone involved can attribute to all of the issues.

If this happened:

1. Tank didn't use AMS.
2. Healer didn't cleanse.
3. DPS didn't interrupt.

then everyone was at fault.

TLDR: Healer calling out tank was wrong. The responses in this thread calling out the healer are equally as wrong.

Loganisis
05-27-2010, 10:00 AM
3. DPS didn't interrupt.

I'd change #3 to:

3. Group didn't interrupt. that's the only hard part of the pull. If you're having trouble - single target the flame poopers, make sure to interrupt them immediately, and it's nap time.

Selene
05-27-2010, 10:32 AM
I'd change #3 to:

3. Group didn't interrupt. that's the only hard part of the pull. If you're having trouble - single target the flame poopers, make sure to interrupt them immediately, and it's nap time.

Yep just did Reg PoS on my nub mage.

Warrior Tank - never did it before
Lock
Mage - me
Shammy - Healer
DK

First try we wiped, 2nd try, we had the lock get their Fel Hunter out and sic it on the 2nd fireguy.

Winterburn
05-28-2010, 08:33 AM
If a healer complains about a 5k+ tank being hard to heal, he's probably brain dead. There are a few people like this out there and they are probably another step in evolution of "ZOMG! Tank bad, he be not holding aggro" dpsers. I just hope they'll evolve to multicellular organisms by the time Cataclysm comes live.

As for the fight mentioned above, sure a tank can pop AMS, IBF, cast AotD for additional damage reduction, and whatnot to give the healer time to type his complaints about the tank in group chat (once I got a healer doing just that on Anub'Arak in Azjol-Nerub, and as a result, everyone died, so I had to burn all CDs to down the boss). But it will by no means make the healer more competent. If the healer knows the fight, he will be ready to cast his heals as soon as tank pulls to cope with massive incoming damage, otherwise he's just not doing his job.

Trogdorrior
05-30-2010, 08:02 AM
I heard someone mention something called... "CC"... what's that? :P I saw a priest shackle a flamebearer one time, and the tank ran over and whacked it. Literally went out of his way to go hit it. /Sigh. The fight is easy if you can cleanse those diseases. The actual spells they cast don't hit very hard but especially in a melee heavy group Blight is genocide.

Schmevan
05-30-2010, 03:21 PM
Step 1. drop death and decay on the left flame bearer marked with skull
Step 2. death grip right flame bearer marked with X
Step 3. apply diseases to all mobs with skull targeted
Step 4. spam blood boil
Step 5. interrupt hellfire
Step 6. complain about the healer in guild chat

iliveonarainbowcloud
05-30-2010, 03:38 PM
TBH, i'm a DK tank, and i don't think ive ever used blood boil. In fact, i've never used it as a DPS either. And you'll probly call me stupid for it, but i dont have aggro problems either.

Anyways, gearscore = poop for tanks. EX - DK with 6k gs, more health, better gear, etc. Myself - 5.4k gs at the time i tanked with him. Blood Council rolls along in 25 man, warrior tanks middle, i tank the dark nuclei dude, and the other dk takes the right side. Empowered shock vortex "Hmmm....IBF and AMS sound good since i know some dps is going to run at my face". I live, he splodes, and i have 5 nuclei on me.

Do what they said. But i do have a suggestion as to something i've seen many times on my alt. Tanks using obliterate instead of Death Strike. IMO WORST IDEA EVER. Self heals are your friends, and should be used if ya don't already. =D

Schmevan
05-30-2010, 03:48 PM
Bloody strikes makes blood boil an important part of your rotation for aoe tanking as blood, which is the spec used by most death knight tanks, it also plays a roll in the frost and blood aoe dps rotations (I haven't ever used unholy so I can't speak for that). As for frost tanks obliterate are important because they have a chance to proc rime which is a free howling blast. The self heals from death strike are minimal as frost.

iliveonarainbowcloud
05-30-2010, 04:49 PM
I don't frost tank. So no procing at all. Nor do i AoE tank that often. If im tanking more than one mob, DnD, diseases, pest, and go from there. Haha, but everyone has their own style, and as long as you're not letting people take aggro it shouldn't be a problem in my book.

Selene
05-30-2010, 04:58 PM
Bloody strikes makes blood boil an important part of your rotation for aoe tanking as blood, which is the spec used by most death knight tanks, it also plays a roll in the frost and blood aoe dps rotations (I haven't ever used unholy so I can't speak for that). As for frost tanks obliterate are important because they have a chance to proc rime which is a free howling blast. The self heals from death strike are minimal as frost.

Not quite sure what you are trying to say here.

The Bloody Strikes talent gives Blood Boil a boost for Blood DKs. Since within the spec itself they don't have much in the way of AoE.
Frost has Howling Blast and Blood Boil.
Unholy has Blood Boil (but greatly enhanced diseases to go with it).